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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK

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I had a 5 minute recently, but mostly it's under 2. Virtually never anything under 100 seconds anymore though.

Been trying to get back into using Ultimate Evolution on Abathur because I'm not at all sure I'm going to be able to handle having a Monstrosity that behaves like a Lost Viking instead of a big locust, should the PTR behavior not be a bug.
 
I had a 5 minute recently, but mostly it's under 2. Virtually never anything under 100 seconds anymore though.

Been trying to get back into using Ultimate Evolution on Abathur because I'm not at all sure I'm going to be able to handle having a Monstrosity that behaves like a Lost Viking instead of a big locust, should the PTR behavior not be a bug.

Is Monstrosity the usual Heroic taken with him? The couple games I did last night I had only used Evo because it seemed like it'd be more impactful. Maybe I should try it after class.
 
Monstrosity is the one I personally pick the most. Last patch Evolution got it's cooldown stealth reduced by like 20 seconds, so it's much harder to vote Monstrosity unless split pushing is more sensible with the enemy team comp.

Currently on PTR the thing no longer advances down a lane, it sits where you leave it and only engages when not being controlled if you move it into a minion wave. This allows you to keep it out of trouble a bit easier, but requires vastly more babysitting.
 

Alur

Member
A lot of your queue time is tied to your MMR, along with the hero you play. Like on PTR now, queuing as medic the first two days turned into a 10 minute affair for me twice. Plus the MMR is all wonky there so matchmaking is effectively broken. We got teams of pro players in like 3 straight games yesterday, including one game where we queued as 2 and faced a legit 5 man. This is nearly impossible on the live servers, but I was watching the stream when it happened to us so I know it occurred.

On live when we QM or HL, there's two of us at any given time with 3k + MMR and it seems that since that has happened the queues go much longer as the pool is smaller. Depending on who we group with or what account I use, the queue time can go down, though.

For dudes like brian!, etc you can always count on it being longer due to the MMR. The only way we've found to alleviate it is queuing with someone lower which gets you in a kind of mirror match in a lower bracket with a high mmr player + his lower buddy.
 

brian!

Member
I kind of suspect the system is confused when i solo since ive played 2+ almost exclusively for like 8 months, i used to get 6min+ a lot even in duo and that dissapeared after a patch that altered mm iirc
 

Alur

Member
Your MMR is pretty high, so you may just be seeing a QM version of what ZPs was talking about in HL. It's making quicker matches for you but with worse matchmaking.
 

sibarraz

Banned
My last 2 ranked games had been horrible

The first one was on infernal shrines, I had a kerrigan that supposedly took the wrong talent at level 4, then he said that he was stupid and started to dive to the opponents keep just to feed

Then, I was playing garden terror, our team had a way better composition that the opponent (the other team was etc/thrall/zeratul/illidan/kaelthas)

We were fine until for someone reason, leoric threw an insult to the butcher, then he threw a hissy fit and stayed on core, took the terror and went to the base with it to destroy it. Obviously we lost

wtf man
 

Ketch

Member
I thought there was no match making in PTR. I had to go to AI games the first day because it was taking so long. I figured it was because everyone is just trying to play the same heroes
 
I had the strangest game last night. We were getting rocked at the start, and the Nova and Diablo just kept bitching at each other in all caps for dying. The Diablo started in on me as Abathur and then laid off saying "nm you've obviously played more than one game as opposed to Nova and Zagara".

Eventually we had minions on our core and their Gazlowe pushing in, but the other team obviously didn't know how to put the nail in the coffin either. I managed to keep getting us enough exp to keep the levels even, and I had gone with a mine build early so I had great waveclear by lvl 20.

Suddenly at lvl 20, everyone finally decided to group up for teamfights, and between that and hivemind we started surprising them because they had finally gotten so comfortable they were trickling into fights 1 or 2 at a time. Two Dragon Knights later, we wiped them as they rezzed and got their core. Was one of the sloppiest, ugliest wins I can recall.
 

brian!

Member
Cant linky, but i highly suggest yall check out the league worlds threads on gaf/reddit, as well as the hour long promo video for it
 
Turdburger, your comments on the Complexity talk on THH from Blinks and h0ns?

Sounded fine to me Blinks said what he had to say lol

I've heard macs side of the story and obviously there's a lot more to it than what blinks said but in my opinion it was just a big mess with both sides equally at fault

Mac is making more money than anyone on coL now with his stream starting to take off and via coaching so it's turned out to be working out better for him than he ever thought it would haha
 

kirblar

Member
I have no idea what on earth they're thinking w/ Diablo. None of his changes have made sense, going back to the talent rework that gutted him.
 
I tried Diablo on PTR and couldn't figure out a build that made any sense, it's like they just threw things on him that other warriors had and none of the new stuff really works together

Not like I really play Diablo though
 
Going through the THH from last week atm, what's wrong with group stage?

I actually think group stage is superior to double elim. Ideally it wouldn't be used with just 8 teams though 16 teams, 4 groups going into quarter finals directly would be perfect.
 

kirblar

Member
Going through the THH from last week atm, what's wrong with group stage?

I actually think group stage is superior to double elim. Ideally it wouldn't be used with just 8 teams though 16 teams, 4 groups going into quarter finals directly would be perfect.
The team who wins out of group stage eats a virtual loss going into the semis because it's single elim at that point. It's a really f'd up system w/ invites going to top 2.

IF the brackets were

W
W WF
. ........................ GF
L LS................ LF
L

like a normal double elim bracket, it'd be fine.
 
The team who wins out of group stage eats a virtual loss going into the semis because it's single elim at that point. It's a really f'd up system w/ invites going to top 2.

IF the brackets were

W
W WF
. ........................ GF
L LF
L

like a normal double elim bracket, it'd be fine.

What virtual loss? If C9 and TS had been in different groups then it'd have been f'd up since they could have met in the semi finals, I don't think groups are randomized though.
 

Alur

Member
Sounded fine to me Blinks said what he had to say lol

I've heard macs side of the story and obviously there's a lot more to it than what blinks said but in my opinion it was just a big mess with both sides equally at fault

Mac is making more money than anyone on coL now with his stream starting to take off and via coaching so it's turned out to be working out better for him than he ever thought it would haha

Oh I figure there's more to it, and I was always under the impression McIntyre was pretty hard on em which you can only do for so long I guess, especially if you aren't winning.

I didn't know he was coaching, though. That's cool I guess.

What virtual loss? If C9 and TS had been in different groups then it'd have been f'd up since they could have met in the semi finals, I don't think groups are randomized though.

I could be wrong, but I think he's referring to the team winning out all the way to semifinals/finals losing immediately, instead of getting a second chance like everyone else.

See Storm, Tempo at the Americas championship.
 

Alur

Member
I don't think it's unfair, group stage matches are just placement matches for the 2 who make it out. If you win all you don't deserve anything more than your place in the bracket.

That's fair and that's your opinion.

There's a reason pretty much every other notable HOTS tournament and other mobas have worked the other way, though, and that's because the majority (and in particular every player I've seen/heard discuss it, including Dunktrain on THH post Americas win) view double elim for everyone to be the best way to run it.

If team A beats team B solidly, then later in the tournament team B gets another shot and beats team A, why would team A and team B not have a rubber match? It doesn't make sense. Team B gets the win despite only going 1-1 against the other team. With that kind of money and sponsorships and all that on the line, it's just not very fair.

It only isn't happening that way here because of Blizzard's concerns with time constraints.
 

brian!

Member
League worlds uses the groupstage format and there is no loser's bracket

Time constraint concerns were real at na tourney w/ like 8 matches in a row or something, and the matches got progressively awful too
 
That's fair and that's your opinion.

There's a reason pretty much every other notable HOTS tournament and other mobas have worked the other way, though, and that's because the majority (and in particular every player I've seen/heard discuss it, including Dunktrain on THH post Americas win) view double elim for everyone to be the best way to run it.

If team A beats team B solidly, then later in the tournament team B gets another shot and beats team A, why would team A and team B not have a rubber match? It doesn't make sense. Team B gets the win despite only going 1-1 against the other team. With that kind of money and sponsorships and all that on the line, it's just not very fair.

It only isn't happening that way here because of Blizzard's concerns with time constraints.

Maybe it's because I'm from europe and as such soccer is the sport for me to watch but the biggest sports event in the world works with group stage. Sponsorships and prize money should be on incomparable levels. That said they operate a little different from the bracket matches.

You just can't see a group stage win on the same level as a bracket win, see it as a 2nd round of qualifiers. That's like saying C9 winning over tempo is unfair because tempo won over them in the previous road to blizzcon qualifier, it's not straight succession.
 

Alur

Member
I think that'd be fine if there was no loser's bracket. Sure you might have a "group of death" and see teams get unfairly eliminated, but no one is getting an artificial second chance while others don't.

You are then faced with win your games or don't complain, instead of like C9 in the last tournament where they claim they basically tanked the first series cause they assumed they'd get a second.

Maybe it's because I'm from europe and as such soccer is the sport for me to watch but the biggest sports event in the world works with group stage. Sponsorships and prize money should be on incomparable levels. That said they operate a little different from the bracket matches.

You just can't see a group stage win on the same level as a bracket win, see it as a 2nd round of qualifiers. That's like saying C9 winning over tempo is unfair because tempo won over them in the previous road to blizzcon qualifier, it's not straight succession.

I watch plenty of soccer. The World Cup does work with a group stage. You are also dealing with far more teams which makes that style of bracket work a whole hell of a lot better. You're pretty damn unlikely to turn around and face a team you already beat or who already beat you if you both advance. It happens, but odds are if a team already beat a team, it will do so again. No one is taking dives in the group stage in the World Cup like C9 claimed to in this tournament. This is on top of the fact that in a tournament with 8 teams it's virtually a guaranteed to happen for someone like it did for C9 and Tempo Storm.

HOTS and most esports work on series, not single game matchups. If Tempo Storm wins the first series against Cloud 9 (and mind you they bodied them in the particular scenario that brought this up), yet Cloud 9 eeks out the second series, what sense does it make that Cloud 9's series win counts as more than Tempo Storms?

It doesn't, other than the fact that the tournament rules say it does. The same tournament rules that are different than the rules used for loser's bracket in the qualifiers.

In the grand scheme of things, Tempo Storm still won the majority of the games against Cloud 9, but unlike Cloud 9 they were not afforded an opportunity to get a second life. That makes absolutely zero sense and is pretty shitty and even the C9 people agreed on that. It is even more glaring when you consider every Road To Blizzcon qualifier worked that way...yet when we get to the big dance it's different?

I am super glad Cloud 9 won, don't get me wrong. But the only legitimate victory they have over Tempo Storm in the past few months (I don't count the KotS tourney) was ESL Majors when they returned from the loser's bracket and won two sets to take that title, instead of just skating through due to time constraints like they did in the Americas Championship.

As a fan of C9, I'd prefer the legitimacy. As a person who likes watching HOTS, I'd prefer the full competition and more games.
 
I watch plenty of soccer. The World Cup does work with a group stage. You are also dealing with far more teams which makes that style of bracket work a whole hell of a lot better. You're pretty damn unlikely to turn around and face a team you already beat or who already beat you if you both advance. It happens, but odds are if a team already beat a team, it will do so again. No one is taking dives in the group stage in the World Cup like C9 claimed to in this tournament. This is on top of the fact that in a tournament with 8 teams it's virtually a guaranteed to happen for someone like it did for C9 and Tempo Storm.

HOTS and most esports work on series, not single game matchups. If Tempo Storm wins the first series against Cloud 9 (and mind you they bodied them in the particular scenario that brought this up), yet Cloud 9 eeks out the second series, what sense does it make that Cloud 9's series win counts as more than Tempo Storms?

It doesn't, other than the fact that the tournament rules say it does. The same tournament rules that are different than the rules used for loser's bracket in the qualifiers.

In the grand scheme of things, Tempo Storm still won the majority of the games against Cloud 9, but unlike Cloud 9 they were not afforded an opportunity to get a second life. That makes absolutely zero sense and is pretty shitty and even the C9 people agreed on that. It is even more glaring when you consider every Road To Blizzcon qualifier worked that way...yet when we get to the big dance it's different?

I am super glad Cloud 9 won, don't get me wrong. But the only legitimate victory they have over Tempo Storm in the past few months (I don't count the KotS tourney) was ESL Majors when they returned from the loser's bracket and won two sets to take that title, instead of just skating through due to time constraints like they did in the Americas Championship.

As a fan of C9, I'd prefer the legitimacy. As a person who likes watching HOTS, I'd prefer the full competition and more games.

I said 8 is too few myself, 16 might be enough dunno how many make it to Blizzcon in total.

In itself I don't see what's so wrong with Group Stage nor said 2nd chance, I just don't see group stage and bracket matches as equal and I think considering the matches on the same level is simply fallacy. TS won the most matches just not when it counted.

During double elims both grand final teams get 2 chances, fair yes, yet the winners final loser has to win more matches and can't catch a break, while the winner has time to prepare and relax.

I don't mind either but as said 8 participants going straight into semi finals is not enough, though if I don't see the runner up having a chance in double elim the tournament loses a lot of the stakes as it happened repeatedly before C9 got their shit together.
 

brian!

Member
In mobas i always judge teams series by series, but im also not the one playing so

From a spectator point of view, watching the same 2 teams play each other in more than a bo5 is exhausting, i cant imagine playing it
 

Alur

Member
During double elims both grand final teams get 2 chances, fair yes, yet the winners final loser has to win more matches and can't catch a break, while the winner has time to prepare and relax.

Yet that's been proven time and again to be a fallacy. Some teams thrive on the break. Some teams need to keep playing. Which one is the better scenario for each given team on each given patch changes constantly.

It's just the fairest way period.
 
Yet that's been proven time and again to be a fallacy. Some teams thrive on the break. Some teams need to keep playing. Which one is the better scenario for each given team on each given patch changes constantly.

It's just the fairest way period.

Well I disagree, don't think either is fairer than the other. If we go down that route we'd have to start awarding points for all events depending on place and crown a victor at the end of a season like they do for Ski and Formula 1 and probably some other sports I don't follow.

With Double-Elim you just make GFs 2 Bo3s.

sometimes a Bo5 were the WF winner has to win only 2
 

Milly79

Member
PTR Patch 38186

Infernal Shrines loading screen description was changed to state 40 guardians are required for the Punisher summon. (Stated in the official patch notes)

Artanis was removed from the list of Heroes.

The Purifier Artanis Bundle has been removed from the list of Bundles.

A few comments were added to various locales of gamestring files where they were previously missing.

Some debug tags were removed from Lt. Morale's data.
 

brian!

Member
https://youtu.be/WDMNiH-vOrY
here's the first video in the series of promo videos for league worlds, which starts tommorow

Blizz has started going in on building player brands, these videos are prtty much the culmination of this very necesary thing in elongating the life of a moba
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Murky is the best character in the game

holy fucking shit
 
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