Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
EU is live btw
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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
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jaundicejuice
Member
How do you even build Morales without an AA hero or tank on your team? Pick drop ship, never use it, pick stim drone and have no one appropriate to use it on?
Valve's model works because they're not selling you a game, they're selling you the Steam platform. Blizzard's model is just fine, especially since once you unlock all of them, you can free roll all the rest via dailies.
Her heroics suck IMO. Medivac is great fun, but like I said earlier it's "win more" and occasionally "big swing". Most of the time it's kind of like a WoW flight point or something.
When I've been in that situation I just took Medivac as there's usually at least a use or three you can get out of it. A member or two of your team back from mana after a fight/objective or whatever, you can hearth with them and dropship them right to wherever they need to be quicker than they can run.
When I've been in that situation I just took Medivac as there's usually at least a use or three you can get out of it. A member or two of your team back from mana after a fight/objective or whatever, you can hearth with them and dropship them right to wherever they need to be quicker than they can run.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Can we place bets?
But who watches the watcher?
jaundicejuice
Member
Without a booster, how long would it take someone to unlock even the small pool of heroes that is currently in the game? Someone has to have done the math to figure out some sort of average.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
a long long time, I've been playing for months and bought a whole bunch of heroes (Sylvanas, KT, Johanna, Monk, Abathur, starter pack,...) and still only have half the heroes and 25k gold. No master skins and I only have this much because my Zeratul gold purchase got refunded since I bought the launch package, already had Jaina, Zeratul and Lili though. The ronin skin counted.
Which reminds me I still have keys for Zeratul, Jaina and Lili
there's the question though if the value is proportionate to the cost, I don't think any of us consider HoTS anywhere near feature complete and ultimately a better model or just fairer prices could be of benefit to the game's life expectancy.
A long time.
There are bad predatory gaming models out there- this isn't one of them. Servers, artists, developers, etc. - these all cost money, and they need to recoup it somehow. Getting mad at them for a business model that encourages people to voluntarily pay money that goes to support a game they enjoy is ridiculous.
jaundicejuice
Member
I asked a simple question, inquiring after specific information, how is that me getting mad?
If you're gonna straight F2P it's gonna take you quite a while. But odds are if you are straight F2P (and strict with it) I'd venture you aren't concerned with getting every hero anyway. The last time I saw down to the hour/day/whatever info on how long the grind would take was in Closed or Open Beta on reddit IIRC.
For that part of it things will only get worse. Soon enough we'll have 50 heroes. Then 60. And so on, and though more gold avenues open up with each hero (and theoretically features and events), the total amount required increases faster.
If, like some of us, you got in early or played a ton or got ahead in some fashion, you are pretty much set for the duration unless they drop several heroes at once for some reason.
Agreed. I don't wanna spend ~$13 or 15,000 gold every 3 or 4 weeks, but I definitely am glad they are churning them out at their word on schedule (which IMO is kind of new for them).
Outside of heroes and into the rest of the monetization, I find the Blizzard add-ons (skins and mounts) to be higher quality for the most part than the other moba add-ons so that part of the process I have no problem paying a premium for when I actually want a certain skin or mount.
Opinions on fair or not aside, they seem to be making a decent bit on each new release based on what buzz we see on social platforms, so it seems like it was the right approach for them which makes it okay for me so long as the game keeps improving like it has. If they were to stop doing that then I would have an issue.
They are making money -> they keep making and improving the game -> I can keep playing and watching tournaments = I can deal with it.
I don't think he was referring to you specifically, more in response to this general complaint that has cropped up since the first one of these threads back in Alpha.
I guess you could look at that two ways.
(A) People always bitch about F2P games unless virtually everything is freely available (definitely true) or (B) Blizzard's monetization system is so bad it's been a complaint since launch (also true, but it went from the top topic in this thread in Alpha to just an occasional thing nowadays).
jaundicejuice
Member
I also don't get the argument that Valve is inherently different because they're selling you on Steam as a service. Blizzard is doing the same thing with Battle.net and the client. Blizzard tries to create a positive feedback loop between all of their games to get you try and/or buy them all.
Also people who play Dota tend to only play Dota. It's not like Steam is this magical gateway into converting MOBA players into paying customers for vasts amounts of 60$ single player games or other multiplayer games...
https://medium.com/steam-spy/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae
Scroll to the "Audiences are vastly different" section.
The closest Valve ever came to cross game promotion was getting third parties to create TF2 hats. For a while this was a trend but it seems to have dramatically dropped off despite TF2's continued success as a f2p title. This may point to a similar trend of TF2 players predominantly playing TF2. Either way Valve doesn't make the same concerted effort that Blizzard does cross-promoting their games. To get mounts in HotS you have to own and play Starcraft II and Diablo 3, subscribe to WoW or play a hundred of matches of Hearthstone. When you buy the regular version or CE for the next WoW, Starcraft or Diablo expansions, they typically have rewards for all of Blizzards other games.
The ecosystems Valve and Blizzard try to push their consumers into are different, but they're both trying to sell you on a service. The difference is Blizzard still makes games, while Volvo doesn't, so they have to sell you on other peoples games.
Also people who play Dota tend to only play Dota. It's not like Steam is this magical gateway into converting MOBA players into paying customers for vasts amounts of 60$ single player games or other multiplayer games...
https://medium.com/steam-spy/your-target-audience-doesn-t-exist-999b78aa77ae
Scroll to the "Audiences are vastly different" section.
The closest Valve ever came to cross game promotion was getting third parties to create TF2 hats. For a while this was a trend but it seems to have dramatically dropped off despite TF2's continued success as a f2p title. This may point to a similar trend of TF2 players predominantly playing TF2. Either way Valve doesn't make the same concerted effort that Blizzard does cross-promoting their games. To get mounts in HotS you have to own and play Starcraft II and Diablo 3, subscribe to WoW or play a hundred of matches of Hearthstone. When you buy the regular version or CE for the next WoW, Starcraft or Diablo expansions, they typically have rewards for all of Blizzards other games.
The ecosystems Valve and Blizzard try to push their consumers into are different, but they're both trying to sell you on a service. The difference is Blizzard still makes games, while Volvo doesn't, so they have to sell you on other peoples games.
I'm not at all bitter about the new Valve
jaundicejuice
Member
Right that's the general sentiment but the Steam Spy data indicates that Dota players don't really buy or play much else.
It's a win for Valve either way. The hardcore Dota players I see on GAF that only play Dota normally claim to have spent a lot of money on the hats. Valve still has the players locked within Steam. Moba/esports was too big a genre to not capitalize on for them.
The casual Dota players will eventually drift to playing other Steam titles or succumb to the constant advertising for other games in the Steam client when they look for something different (is the idea/hope)
I see the hardcore dota gafs claim to purchase other titles but they complain they dont have time to play them. Since apparently Dota 2 demands a lot of their attention to keep up with the meta
HOTS / Battle.net, on the other hand, has a vastly much smaller library than Steam. Anyway take from that post what you will. I'm just glad HOTS doesn't require players to grind runes (like Riot's LoL). I actually get to spend all my ingame money on heroes. Not on other crap
The casual Dota players will eventually drift to playing other Steam titles or succumb to the constant advertising for other games in the Steam client when they look for something different (is the idea/hope)
I see the hardcore dota gafs claim to purchase other titles but they complain they dont have time to play them. Since apparently Dota 2 demands a lot of their attention to keep up with the meta
HOTS / Battle.net, on the other hand, has a vastly much smaller library than Steam. Anyway take from that post what you will. I'm just glad HOTS doesn't require players to grind runes (like Riot's LoL). I actually get to spend all my ingame money on heroes. Not on other crap
I wish Blizz had gave the HiRez option of spending X amount of dollars for all heroes 4ever. Smite lives on the fact that if people own the heroes they are more likely to buy the skins for the heroes, which is basically the Dota model. I would have gladly thrown down upwards to a 100something dollars for that.
Best MOBA f2p models (just my personal opinion):
Dota 2
Smite
HOTS
League of Legends (I consider LoL inferior model from personal experience due to shatty rune grinds)
(that's my list; I haven't played any other mobas)
I think Dota 2 and HOTS have some of the best graphics. I play Dota 2 casually for the mods myself. I never play Dota's normal or ranked modes.
Dota 2
Smite
HOTS
League of Legends (I consider LoL inferior model from personal experience due to shatty rune grinds)
(that's my list; I haven't played any other mobas)
I think Dota 2 and HOTS have some of the best graphics. I play Dota 2 casually for the mods myself. I never play Dota's normal or ranked modes.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Khaldor is casting some games (scrims) between some pro players from multiple teams (G2, VP, Navi, Roccat,...)
http://www.twitch.tv/khaldor
Medic is being played atm.
http://www.twitch.tv/khaldor
Medic is being played atm.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Okay I've decided to spare the few hours I have every day to Murky instead of Medic... that's mostly because I don't have time arranging groups so solo que is the way to go for the next few days. The plan is to go binge-mode fri-sat-sun and get Murky to 10 and try and get Medic to 9!
The passion for this game is coming back (I had a spree o shit characters that I was playing 1-10 in a row and hated it)... Now I'm loving it!
The passion for this game is coming back (I had a spree o shit characters that I was playing 1-10 in a row and hated it)... Now I'm loving it!
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Man I wish I had the time to play like you do Yoshi. I have a few level 8's but that is my highest so far, and I've been playing since before the game launched! The grind at 8 and above just seems so long, Someday I'll get a hero up to 10, but man who knows when.....
RumblingRosco
Member
Stimpacks bruh.
i never cared much for tiers, even in SF but i am curious about Li Li
is she a valuable support player on a dece team? i'm playing casually, mind you, and will not be interested in ranked stuff.
i'm doing well with her and it's been real satisfying to keep the team alive vs ai but if she's completely useless in pvp game i may rethink the purchase. thanks!
is she a valuable support player on a dece team? i'm playing casually, mind you, and will not be interested in ranked stuff.
i'm doing well with her and it's been real satisfying to keep the team alive vs ai but if she's completely useless in pvp game i may rethink the purchase. thanks!
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
Yes, but stimpacks are too expensive for casual players who only get to play a few hours per week, they just aren't worth the price. Now, if stimpacks were defined by in game hours rather than real world hours, THEN I could see a huge value in them for both 12 hours per day players and 12 hours per week players.
If I ever get a week of vacation where the girlfriend is gone and I can hibernate in the house and play games non stop to my heart's content, then I might plunk down the cash for a stimpack....
what is?
Li Li is more than fine in Quick Match, or even in Hero League, at the skill level the majority of players are at.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Li Li being "not too fun" :3
She is a really strong healer.
I have a 60% win rate with her over 60 games and HotsLogs believes I'm in diamond league.
She has a ton of strength in quick match because 1.) she's actually very survivable for a support, 2.) blind removes vastly more damage than people expect it to, and 3.) she's able to heal notably well between spamming healing brew and using her healing ultimate while staying out of stun range.
She's extremely positioning dependent as a hero though since basically all of her abilities are auto-targeted. That said she also makes a good starter character since the game will help you make generally good decisions.
I would suggest using a healing centric build instead of a serpent centric build, especially when starting out.
If you want a healer with more active targeting, Uther is notably strong, but you might have to juggle eight buttons.
IMHO I think hots business model is totally fine. It's average you know, basically the same as every other f2p model. There are some which are way better and a lot which are way worse. The area where they drop the ball is the real money prices. They're 50 to 25% too expensive. The sale prices should be baseline. Or they should have gold price alternative for everything.
The cross game promotions are fun if you already own or are planning on buying/playing the other games already.
Like the Matthiel mount promotion was fun. It felt like an event. Playing Diablo with my hits friends was fun. The wow mount would have been fun if I enjoyed playing wow like I used too.
This specific case (Artanis) is just extra shitty to me because I don't like to preorder anything. I don't really have time to play LotV right now anyway, though I will get it eventually. It would be nice if the hero came with the game no matter when you bought it, especially since there's other preorder cross promotions anyway, but whatever it's not the worst thing. The actual worst thing is that he's locked away for an extra week behind a $40 cash wall.
So he's gonna be in QM and HL before I even have a chance to mess with him in try mode? Is it gonna be three weeks before I can get him for 10k gold?
Like the hero looks cool, seems to be my style, I would consider buying just the hero day one for cash even though I don't really have the time to play him.
Like thats my compromise. I would consider spending real money even though I know it's waste since I don't have the time and it's kinda overpriced anyway. But I like the game and the hero and I'm a fan so fuck it here's my money.
But blizz is like: "nah bro, $40 for the Artanis + landline telephone bundle or gtfo. Thanks for being a loyal customer"
It's just blatantly intentionally shitty.
The cross game promotions are fun if you already own or are planning on buying/playing the other games already.
Like the Matthiel mount promotion was fun. It felt like an event. Playing Diablo with my hits friends was fun. The wow mount would have been fun if I enjoyed playing wow like I used too.
This specific case (Artanis) is just extra shitty to me because I don't like to preorder anything. I don't really have time to play LotV right now anyway, though I will get it eventually. It would be nice if the hero came with the game no matter when you bought it, especially since there's other preorder cross promotions anyway, but whatever it's not the worst thing. The actual worst thing is that he's locked away for an extra week behind a $40 cash wall.
So he's gonna be in QM and HL before I even have a chance to mess with him in try mode? Is it gonna be three weeks before I can get him for 10k gold?
Like the hero looks cool, seems to be my style, I would consider buying just the hero day one for cash even though I don't really have the time to play him.
Like thats my compromise. I would consider spending real money even though I know it's waste since I don't have the time and it's kinda overpriced anyway. But I like the game and the hero and I'm a fan so fuck it here's my money.
But blizz is like: "nah bro, $40 for the Artanis + landline telephone bundle or gtfo. Thanks for being a loyal customer"
It's just blatantly intentionally shitty.
I might agree with you if Artanis was being delayed to everyone else, but he's not. He's coming at the usual 3 weeks to the non-preordering folk. The LotV preorders just get him a week early.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's kinda BS, they are releasing him to the public so he's ready and they are holding him back.
the f2p model is meant to create space for the most exploitation, down to the argument that "you don't have to participate"
like it's always been about getting as much as you can out of it, valve's model (which has only ever existed in the context of other f2p models, it's be totally different if it was the first example imo) gives them pluses like a rabid fanbase w/ high moral ground or something and this large donation drive every year
smite seems to be the most chill out of all of them, and I think I read somewhere that they are also profitable too
like it's always been about getting as much as you can out of it, valve's model (which has only ever existed in the context of other f2p models, it's be totally different if it was the first example imo) gives them pluses like a rabid fanbase w/ high moral ground or something and this large donation drive every year
smite seems to be the most chill out of all of them, and I think I read somewhere that they are also profitable too
he is being delayed to everyone else. If he's ready then put him out. the only reason to hold him back is to coerce people into buying lotv.
Imagine if the story was: "In order to coincide with the pre-orders being available for LotV we've decided to release Artanis a week early!"
This is a minupulative way to make money (even though it's pretty minor one) and it's fine if you're the company cuss company gotta get paid. but you are the consumer, and they're trying to manipulate you (even though it's minor) you shouldn't be okay with that.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I wish I had the time to play like Yoshi too
I barely have any time anymore... this weekend however, I'm hopefully free... but you never know with surprise studies that might show up on Friday.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Mother of god, the plant in the Garden stage is absolutely insane now. The "small" change that it stunlocks the core and the minions can go ham at it is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Wow, the plant in the Garden stage is absolutely insane now. The "small" change that it stunlocks the core and the minions can go ham at it is HUUUUUUUUUUGE.
Oddly enough over the 19 games I played yesterday, I never saw it. I'm hoping it's a good change, but I have my doubts. I enjoyed how GoT played as it was.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Triple post, impressive
dope, thanks for your thoughts
gonna cop her with gold and buy her Explorer alt w/ $$$
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I'm sorry... I swear it wasn't on purpose. I'm so tired ._.It essentially makes your group able to push hard when it's 5v4 + plant
It hasn't been on sale since the end of February from what I can tell. It may come around soon.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
GoT is actually my favorite map, I just find it a fun one to play on. Haunted Mines being my least favorite. I think I'd rank the maps (from a personal fun factor) like this:
1. Garden of Terror
2. Battlefield of Eternity
3. Dragon Shire
4. Sky Temple
5. Infernal Shrines
6. Tomb of Spider Queen
7. Blackheart Bay
8. Cursed Hollow
9. Haunted Mines
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
GoT and Tomb are particularly bad if neither team is good enough to end the game, just takes ages. I'd prefer losing after 20 minutes than winning at 35 and tomb is like my best map.
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