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Heroes of the Storm |OT| Pretty sure that Abathur is AFK
- Thread starter Nirolak
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Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Breez finally at the top. He left NaVi only for them to take the EU championship.
NaVi even thanked him for leaving afterwards.
Strong showing by all teams though.
NaVi even thanked him for leaving afterwards.
Strong showing by all teams though.
So what changes did rehgar get? He was amazing before I took a break but I haven't played him yet since.
He was my favorite support back then
At least we have monk now
His problem is that *all* he brings is healing, and even then it's quite bad healing until his heroic and level 16 for the chain heal talents. Unlike other healers he has no real CC or control to enable ganks or early game plays, and he's very very weak early on.
re the meta and picks, Falstad and Kael being the two top ranged assassins was a surprise, but tit feels a bit like the EU teams have all been scrimming against each other and haven't really had much time to unpick the changes (given they only hit a couple of weeks ago). There were a ton of characters we usually see who weren't picked at all, that we know are being used in other metas right now, so I think its just down to the short time we've had since the patch and how ever EU tam is a mish-mash of players from other teams.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Maybe for Falstad and KT but the other roles seem to be locked in similarly in all regions.
Even then C9 favours Falstad a lot and I can only imagine other regions catching on soon.
Dunk has been using her in China a bit and actually won a series and dmg monk is simply Liquid's signature tactic atm so teams were trying to counterpick it at times.
Even then C9 favours Falstad a lot and I can only imagine other regions catching on soon.
Dunk has been using her in China a bit and actually won a series and dmg monk is simply Liquid's signature tactic atm so teams were trying to counterpick it at times.
sobaka770
Banned
That Dreamhack final game was insane. I don't think I've seen any closer game in any tournament this year. Congrate to the winner
It was also one of the most competent games played in professional HotS and was truly captivating to watch. No major mistakes, good calls, mind games and the difference came from exploiting the minor mistakes.
A lot of games in the tournament had people making huge mistakes (looking at you, Virtus Pro) in positioning, decision-making, showing lack of awareness and simply skill. I think Blizzard needs to take care of the Grandmaster league and other pro-gamer oriented features asap, so we get a better level of competition going, because half of the games ended with outright throws by a team or a player which means that the scenes has a long way to go.
Team Fnatic
It was also one of the most competent games played in professional HotS and was truly captivating to watch. No major mistakes, good calls, mind games and the difference came from exploiting the minor mistakes.
A lot of games in the tournament had people making huge mistakes (looking at you, Virtus Pro) in positioning, decision-making, showing lack of awareness and simply skill. I think Blizzard needs to take care of the Grandmaster league and other pro-gamer oriented features asap, so we get a better level of competition going, because half of the games ended with outright throws by a team or a player which means that the scenes has a long way to go.
I disagree. I think a lot of heroes have seen use betwen this series and the Blizzcon. If you look at blizzcon list only a few heroes saw no play (like Nazebo)
someone posted the link a few pages back
Blizzcon had a ton of diversity. That was on the previous patch before all the changes.
This patch has not, at least not in EU.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
At Blizzcon a couple metas clashed each with their pocket picks and was before one of the biggest shakeups of the game so far.
There was no Rehgar, no lili, no gazlowe, no tychus, no zeratul, no artanis, no azmodan, no murky and no hammer IIRC. Then there was a bunch of heroes only picked once or twice in total. You could visible see the progress of drafts get narrower and narrower just in the two days of the tournament.
Ah, well played. I was thinking about that patch + current. But if you meant post-Blizzcon patch then ya I must agree
(you guys are right then if thats the case)
Turdburger
Member
reminder that Rob Boss Can Flub will be playing at 3 EST tomorrow on Khaldor's channel
Turdburger
Member
i dont agree -- EU teams clearly had no idea how this new patch works going into Dreamhack (they pretty much all admitted so) and thus drafted relatively conservatively. However, only 12 heroes didn't see play (if I counted correctly; counting Chogall as one hero) which is an insanely good number given that a patch was just a few days ago.
The scaling adjustments inadvertently created new god-tier heroes that they will have to fix (Tyrande and Kael'Thas) but overall the patch has improved the game and I'm guessing will eventually lead to more diversity in hero choices.
I agree on Rehgar but not because he didn't get picked at Dreamhack (he gets picked in China a lot), but rather because his design is a total disaster and has been ever since his talent rework. Kael'Thas was picked every game but needs a rework for the same reason. Terribly designed hero.
I've noticed some posts about a lack of "Comeback Mechanic" but isn't that getting more xp for killing a higher level hero? or does that not happen. Cuz in my experiences comeback mechanics is kind of what ruined dota for me so I don't really understand the need for a comeback crutch
that's sort of a running joke from the terrible IGN review. comebacks can and do happen often
HOTS is probably the most comeback friendly game of them all. And yes the "mechanic", as it were, centers mainly around the fact that you get increased experience for hero kills when behind in levels.
I've been memed
jaundicejuice
Member
Towers of Doom is like anti-Haunted Mines.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
that was only true for half the field at best, while there were some major shakeups some of the teams have been together since Blizzcon and had more than ample time to come up with new strategies. The number of heroes not picked is relatively small but the number of heroes only picked once or twice should be fairly large.
I was surprised how few Abathurs there were considering he didn't even get banned much.
May iirc.
Turdburger
Member
even those teams only had a week on the new patch. I don't think it was about the roster swaps, it was about simply not understanding the patch.
Most people figured out Kaelthas and Tyrande are god tier, and that ETC's early game is good, and that the early game matters a lot, but beyond that they had no idea who is actually good. Sylvanas not being picked the first half of day 1 by anybody then going to 100% pick/ban by day 2 demonstrates that pretty obviously
Yeah, it does feel like the field simply didn't understand the patch, so were all relying on the same few things.
Also, have to say TL outdrafted TD repeaedly - they have clearly figured out that Bakery's support role is one of the lynch pins of that team, and were boxing him out of options in all the drafts bar the first. TD need to get used to drafting Kharazim earlier in the draft if Bakery is that important to have on him.
Also, have to say TL outdrafted TD repeaedly - they have clearly figured out that Bakery's support role is one of the lynch pins of that team, and were boxing him out of options in all the drafts bar the first. TD need to get used to drafting Kharazim earlier in the draft if Bakery is that important to have on him.
Turdburger
Member
yep exactly. Lowell had the balls to run Thrall, but even the rest of Teamliquid didn't really know how to play well with that hero because he's been so out of the picture for so long. So many Sunderings were wasted or used awkwardly. But strangely they still won games with him, as teams didn't know how to play best against him just as much as Liquid didn't know how to best utilize him. overall most teams weren't willing to take risks unless they were forced to by the draft
Thrall is amazing against Medic - as soon as there's the slightest bit of opportunity, you sunder and then charge the Medic, and the Medic dies. If you live that's great, but even if not you've caused damage and havoc and taken out their healer.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's a big issue of theirs but at least they figured out how to make Morales work this time.
Even if it was just one week, they've had 2 tournaments with quite a sizable amount of games during that time. If they haven't figured out the new patch entirely yet they at least know how they others play in it.
And Sylvanas was picked 5 times in total and 0 bans in 12 games past group stage, 4 times played by Cris from TL and once by Mene after all his other heroes were either banned or drafted.
This was a very good point
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Speak of the devil
Stormkings.de said:
Malf has gone through ups and downs, and it's generally shifted due to the meta not due to his abilities. He comes with really, really strong stuff but lacks burst healing. His other weakness (which people seem to forget) is that he's basically as weak as Morales, and as positioning dependent. Even at the pro level you see Malf getting caught out of position and annihilated ultra fast in the same way Morales is - if you aren't picking Iceblock at 13, I think you're doing something wrong really.
(Especially if you take Lifeseed, which is just a bad bad talent).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Just had a match where it took the opposing team 4 DKs past lvl 20 to finally end the game.
All the while we already had a keep down but my team just wouldn't wait for everyone to respawn before going outside the walls and getting picked off. Over and over again. We had a 3 lvl lead at 20...
His root can be amazing
All the while we already had a keep down but my team just wouldn't wait for everyone to respawn before going outside the walls and getting picked off. Over and over again. We had a 3 lvl lead at 20...
His root can be amazing
TDLink
Member
I view Malfurion as a worse Tyrande. He has a root instead of a stun (which isn't as good) and his heal is over time instead of at once (which isn't as good). His Tranquility also only heals people in the near area while Tyrande's ult hits all heroes on the map and stealths them.
I don't know why anyone who plays Malfurion doesn't just play Tyrande...she also has the hawk which is great.
And I say all this not even thinking Tyrande is the best healer. I honestly think just about all of them are stronger than Malfurion. Rehgar, Morales, Kharazim, Li Li, Uther. They're all great. I think Brightwing can be pretty good in the right hands too.
Malf's healing is much higher than Tyrande's - and Tranq is a far superior AE helaing spell than Shadowstalk. He is without a doubt better at putting out the heals than tyrande. fighting under a tranq can be incredibly difficult full stop. they occupy quite seperate places in the meta TBH despite skin level similarities.
Malf's issue is the lack of burst healing in a burst / stun meta, and the fact that Tyrande currently does too much damage compared to everyone else.
TDLink
Member
I mean there are heroes this applies to in all categories. Like Abathur and Vikings are very different "Specialists" than the rest. Sonya and Artanis aren't really as bulky as the rest of the "Warriors". Zeratul and Nova fill a different role from the other "Assassin" types.
But the issue is that they turned them into healers because of QM matchmaking. And ONLY because of QM matchmaking. Not because it was actually what the character designs warranted. This instead of the easy fix of treating them as Assassins or Specialists when it comes to team comps.
TDLink
Member
Tyrande and Tassadar are both definitely support rather than Asassin or Specialist. Classifying them as one of those would be a mistake. The real problem is that matchmaking only takes into account the four hero types. They need to fix matchmaking so that it looks at each hero specifically and realize what each can bring to a team rather than just those four base types. There's too much variation to not acknowledge it.
I still don't see Tassadar as a healer at all, so I don't know how he was turned into one...but he's absolutely a support.
Innervate is okay but it's not the end all be all. It's also one of those things that works better when you're playing with a coordinated team rather than randoms in Quick Match.
They are definitely supports, but making them healers was the most asinine ass-backwards way of fixing the support QM problem possible.
Malf is actually better in QM than 5v5- like Li Li he's hard to play against when uncoordinated.
This is true from my experience. Mid to late game Tranquility just wrecks uncoordinated QM teams. It's so frustrating sometimes.
Dreamhack State- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Txpu5Y8sxIPpPSKvLsP36vJKng/edit#gid=0&vpid=B2
Tass, Ty, ETC and Kael all had 100% pick/ban ratios.
Tass, Ty, ETC and Kael all had 100% pick/ban ratios.
RumblingRosco
Member
I love Malfurion in solo queue QM. Because it is so hard to interrupt or displace Tranquility, I can usually get it off with ease. A little roots action to top it all off and it's good stuff.
In coordinated play I can, however, see why he isn't a great pick.
In coordinated play I can, however, see why he isn't a great pick.
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