Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Does he really do more damage than GMane, if so from how much health on does he?
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Does he really do more damage than GMane, if so from how much health on does he?
scoobs
Member
I mean, idk the math but once you see ZJ melt someone when he's zerkering at 20% hp, you'll understand. It's wild stuff.
At level 20 he's AAing 3 times a second for like 400-500 with his Q on someone.
One thing I want to note re: Guillotine...
The knock on Sulfuras Smash here was that it was hard to land and get proper value (spoiler alert: it wasn't and isn't). It's now properly seen as amazing value.
Guillotine is more delayed and has a smaller radius than Smash. Whoever said it was like a Chromie W that is harder to hit is right. The enemy has to literally stand still for a couple beats, be stunned/rooted and you be Johnny on the spot, or they have walk into it. It's considerably harder to hit than Smash is after trying it last night.
It may yet be the go-to here, but I feel like what you get out of Taz'dingo damage wise eclipses it. If you've got a healer or that 20 talent, you should be ok. Hell it can even be used as an escape, which is counter to its purpose, but I did that twice yesterday as well.
The knock on Sulfuras Smash here was that it was hard to land and get proper value (spoiler alert: it wasn't and isn't). It's now properly seen as amazing value.
Guillotine is more delayed and has a smaller radius than Smash. Whoever said it was like a Chromie W that is harder to hit is right. The enemy has to literally stand still for a couple beats, be stunned/rooted and you be Johnny on the spot, or they have walk into it. It's considerably harder to hit than Smash is after trying it last night.
It may yet be the go-to here, but I feel like what you get out of Taz'dingo damage wise eclipses it. If you've got a healer or that 20 talent, you should be ok. Hell it can even be used as an escape, which is counter to its purpose, but I did that twice yesterday as well.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The knock on Sulfuras Smash was that lava wave was better, that changed.
It's his first day of release, and Mewn (like everyone) can and has been wrong about things. I'd wait at least a few days before we get any solid opinions on what works.
KillerDark
Member
No, Lava Wave was a great ult, but there also much talk about how hard it was to hit and get the value and despite it's far shorter cooldown it just wasn't good enough. In reality, it was actually good enough and they should have chosen on specific maps. And then Lava Wave got wrecked anyway.
Maybe he was on drugs. Playing the W build and it felt like absolute hot garbage.
I guess I just don't think you get much more out of tazdingo then you would out of a good support ult anyway. Like you don't need tazdingo if you've got a reliable dshield, Palm or ancestral... It's not like it gives you extra damage.
Then by going chop you get extreme burst and pick off potential which he lacks and you're free-er to get the net at 20 which solves his other big weakness.
I think that tazdingo is great especially with the 20 talent but chop rounds out his kit better.
Also, I think tazdingo is by far easier to counter/deal with.
Then by going chop you get extreme burst and pick off potential which he lacks and you're free-er to get the net at 20 which solves his other big weakness.
I think that tazdingo is great especially with the 20 talent but chop rounds out his kit better.
Also, I think tazdingo is by far easier to counter/deal with.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
but there's value in stacking these effects, dshield was paired with sanct often. Or sanct with ancestral and Uther still sucks
I think chop is practically worthless, it's a ridiculously small AoE with a long wind up.
And Taz'Dingo gives you insane value, and is totally unlike having a good support. 4 seconds of Zul'Jin attacking at 200% attack speed with all his talents practically guarantees you kill at least one person - it's *ridiculous* how much damage he does at point. Possibly the highest AA in the game, at 6.6 range, with his mark on top of that,. It gives you a huge amount of extra damage, which a healer can't do at all.
Tempo Storm signed Murloc Geniuses/former AA.
No return to TS for Zoia and Denial.
From reynad himself in the reddit thread about why they keep coming back:
Pretty cool.
No return to TS for Zoia and Denial.
From reynad himself in the reddit thread about why they keep coming back:
Pretty cool.
Mage brawl
Choose from one of three randomly selected Mage Heroes before entering the battle on Tomb of the Spider Queen. Be quick about it though, you only have 30 seconds to choose!
No talent or level restrictions
Mana regeneration is increased by 50% for all Heroes
All spells deal double damage to structures
The first team to destroy the enemy Core wins!
Sounds fun
Choose from one of three randomly selected Mage Heroes before entering the battle on Tomb of the Spider Queen. Be quick about it though, you only have 30 seconds to choose!
No talent or level restrictions
Mana regeneration is increased by 50% for all Heroes
All spells deal double damage to structures
The first team to destroy the enemy Core wins!
Sounds fun
The interesting thing about fighting Zul'jin so far is that in a teamfight it's almost like you shouldn't attack him at all if you can't kill him. Focus him first or focus him last, but bringing him down to lowish health and not being able to finish him off starts the chain reaction of doom that wipes you.
Orochinagis
Member
Welp, my isp finally fixed my constant high ping so I can finally play this game.
Who is the beast healer so far, outside Morales
Who is the beast healer so far, outside Morales
Auriel and Malf are great.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
malf rehgar bw in that order
jaundicejuice
Member
Had a muted Zul'Jin on our team that intentionally fed from round start, would literally walk down mid-lane into the enemy forts and die, would suicide to merc camps, would not cap merc camps if they survived clearing them, would suicide to minion waves, would walk into the enemy team, would walk into enemy CC and AoE, would just stand around and let themselves be damaged and killed. They provided the enemy team a 5k experience advantage in hero deaths alone early in the match so we were playing from super far behind for the majority of it.
We won despite them and then the shitheel tries to add me as a friend afterwards in the hopes of what? That I'd be dumb enough to accept and let them hurl abuse that they couldn't mid-match because they were muted? That they could explain in the hopes of not getting reported?
Our troll was literally a troll.
We won despite them and then the shitheel tries to add me as a friend afterwards in the hopes of what? That I'd be dumb enough to accept and let them hurl abuse that they couldn't mid-match because they were muted? That they could explain in the hopes of not getting reported?
Our troll was literally a troll.
So my thoughts on Mage Wars.
1) It is fun (because I like playing mages), but christ games can go on long. 35 minute game this morning, as the enemy team drafted all kill and no pushing power (4 * Li-Ming, 1 * chromie). They won in the end, but it was a grind.
2) Targetted abilities are bad, unless they are ultra long range. Non-skill shot abilities seem really strong, as there's very little healing and mages can't dodge them.
3) Gul'dan seems really, really bad. Doesn't gain any bonus from the mana regen, constantly chunked by chromie and Li-ming, needs to be closer than other mages to do his job. Unless he's left alone by the enemy team, I don't rate him at all.
4) Similar Jaina. She loses in a duel to Li-Ming, and relies on a lot of hard to hit skill shots (versus a mage army)
5) Chromie god, naturally.
6) Kael was fun, and wracked up some silly numbers, but didn't think flamestrike was that great for the same reasons as above. Living Bomb and trait abilities seemed really good though.
7) Nazeebo uber-god. Once you take the level 13 talent, and assuming you took the double bonuses at 4, I started running at enemy teams screaming and laughing. Spiders build didn't seem that hot though due to the shorter range and the difficulty in hitting a lot of these heroes, might try wall next time (again, unavoidable damage once the zombies get up).
8) Medivh - meh. Should be strong, but it seems like there's SO much one shot potential he can't keep up with it, and finishing Masters Touch is an exercise in frustration. I'm not a good Medivh player though so who knows.
If I was ranking them, I'd probably say:
Nazeepo
Chromie
Li-Ming / Kael
Medivh
Jaina
Gul'dan
1) It is fun (because I like playing mages), but christ games can go on long. 35 minute game this morning, as the enemy team drafted all kill and no pushing power (4 * Li-Ming, 1 * chromie). They won in the end, but it was a grind.
2) Targetted abilities are bad, unless they are ultra long range. Non-skill shot abilities seem really strong, as there's very little healing and mages can't dodge them.
3) Gul'dan seems really, really bad. Doesn't gain any bonus from the mana regen, constantly chunked by chromie and Li-ming, needs to be closer than other mages to do his job. Unless he's left alone by the enemy team, I don't rate him at all.
4) Similar Jaina. She loses in a duel to Li-Ming, and relies on a lot of hard to hit skill shots (versus a mage army)
5) Chromie god, naturally.
6) Kael was fun, and wracked up some silly numbers, but didn't think flamestrike was that great for the same reasons as above. Living Bomb and trait abilities seemed really good though.
7) Nazeebo uber-god. Once you take the level 13 talent, and assuming you took the double bonuses at 4, I started running at enemy teams screaming and laughing. Spiders build didn't seem that hot though due to the shorter range and the difficulty in hitting a lot of these heroes, might try wall next time (again, unavoidable damage once the zombies get up).
8) Medivh - meh. Should be strong, but it seems like there's SO much one shot potential he can't keep up with it, and finishing Masters Touch is an exercise in frustration. I'm not a good Medivh player though so who knows.
If I was ranking them, I'd probably say:
Nazeepo
Chromie
Li-Ming / Kael
Medivh
Jaina
Gul'dan
That's always my complaint with these kind of brawls.
The idea itself is fine, but I want like 10-12 minute games tops. They continually try to put in modifiers to get there (double tributes + snowballs, mana regen + damage, etc) but full length games have been pretty common for me.
I just do my three to get the portrait and get out when that's the case, but I do wish we had more short form brawls. Maybe they need to start these things with everyone already at level 10 and let us pick our talents from 1/4/7/10 once we load in and go at it from there.
The idea itself is fine, but I want like 10-12 minute games tops. They continually try to put in modifiers to get there (double tributes + snowballs, mana regen + damage, etc) but full length games have been pretty common for me.
I just do my three to get the portrait and get out when that's the case, but I do wish we had more short form brawls. Maybe they need to start these things with everyone already at level 10 and let us pick our talents from 1/4/7/10 once we load in and go at it from there.
scoobs
Member
Mages don't really have mobility aside from Li'Ming, so spiders are super easy to hit in this scenario, unless the other team is all Li'Mings.
It's more the fact that the range is shorter than most abilities, and without any melee its very easy to dodge as a long range dual ability. It still works, but the zombie wall build really just owns things (it is also a lot easier to farm stacks as zombie wall build).
Hitting a Chromie running around trying to dodge abilities at maximum range with spiders is not easy.
scoobs
Member
Ya but when you do, it removes her entire health bar. I'm a big spider fan against pretty much anything outside of illidan and tracer. Spiders are much easier to get value out of than Zombie Wall in my experience.
I love spiders too, and weirdly enough I find it better on Illidan and always take it. I just wait till he jumps in, then throw at short range, and iceblock. Boom, dead illidan (whilst he can always, always evade walls).
But in this mode hard to hit skill shots *really* suck. Without a melee front line it takes a hell of a lot longer to stack your quest up than normal. Yes, when the spiders land on Chromie she gets chunked - but zombie wall does that too her whether it lands or not, and she's a lot easier to deal with due to the extra range you get. plus, post 16 a zombie wall kills anyone barring Nazeepo or Medivh as a guaranteed kill. Plus obviously you stack better.
It's slightly moot because to be frank, Superstition + the level 4 is so broken any build can work, but (for once) this is the only time I prefer playing a non-spider build.
(we had 4 nazeepos in our last game, and post 13 it was just unfair. Two of us could tank 5 of them).
Messed around with Rehgar last night and he reminds me of my Orc Shaman from vanilla WoW back in the day. His kit seems quite powerful, especially for melee heavy groups. Good heal, lightning shield, slow totem, instant cast mount (wolf form) and two good, usable lvl 10 abilities. I likey.
scoobs
Member
Ya rehgar is really strong. Bloodlust in particular is totally overturned nonsense.
KillerDark
Member
Zul'jin is insane, he pumps out ridiculous damage. Especially with a pocket Morales 
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
boy
scoobs
Member
Fixed
Depends if you are playing nazeepo or not... ;-)
But yeah, she's cancer in the game normally so not fun here. Saying that, a good li-Ming can usually beat her with a teleport build. Bronze Talons at 4 is really strong for her here though.
Chromie rules this new brawl. Nazeebo is probably the other best bet.
No one else touches them, not even Li-Ming. Just death from above and beyond sight the whole game. Whichever team has the most Chromie's wins the foosball match.
It's a broken record at this point, but damn have a bunch of these brawls really missed the purpose of a brawl. The mage thing is fine, but 30 minute games cause no one can push is no bueno.
No one else touches them, not even Li-Ming. Just death from above and beyond sight the whole game. Whichever team has the most Chromie's wins the foosball match.
It's a broken record at this point, but damn have a bunch of these brawls really missed the purpose of a brawl. The mage thing is fine, but 30 minute games cause no one can push is no bueno.
Nazeepo devours Chromie for breakfast. He's utterly, utterly OP. 5000+ health and -50% damage from abilities mean Chromie can do jack shit on him. I've been time lapsed and had two chromies unload on me, and walk away from it. It's the team with the most nazeepoes that wins, because he beats every other mage hands down and pushes like crazy.
Maybe its just us, but whilst I agree chromie is the best pick after nazeepo her lack of wave clear and structure damage does mean you don't want a team full of her. Also Li-ming can beat her, she just needs to go full on teleport build and charge like crazy at her. Li-Ming loses the long range war but wins the close up war (Don't ever pick disintegrate for gods sake).
Maybe that's how it's worked for you guys. For us, it's Chromie, Chromie, Chromie. The only time Nazeebo has been in the league was post 20 because he's the one who can finish the game. As for getting solo'd by a zeeb, I haven't seen much of that happening at all. She's just killing at will, and that goes for us playing her or others playing her. You'd have to get caught in the wall and then hit with the spiders to boot or vice versa, and if you're that close as Chromie I don't know wtf you're doing.
EDIT: Not even sure what the purpose of Gul'dan is in the mode. Same for Medivh. Feels like an empty pick.
Either way, glad I'm done with it. It was pretty toxic to say the least.
EDIT: Not even sure what the purpose of Gul'dan is in the mode. Same for Medivh. Feels like an empty pick.
Either way, glad I'm done with it. It was pretty toxic to say the least.
How does he lose? I mean, he's literally harder to kill than a Cho'Gall or Diablo with the appropriate talents. Chromie has to stand still to cast her main nuke, at which point its lights out time from the Nazeepo. He has an effective health of over 10 by level 20.
Without a front line, Chromie can't stop him getting close. He's going to push the lanes, she's going to have to withdraw past structures, and then he'll take those down and she either stands and fights or loses, or retreats further back.
Not necessarily. I was in one 3 "man" chromie team and we lost. We had a Gul'dan and a KT but that was our only wave clear. Doesn't help that the other Chromies couldn't land the R combo to save their lives. Our lanes kept getting pushed out because they had two Jaina, a KT, a chromie and a feeding Gul'dan. A balanced team helps a ton. I was in one in the next match and we crushed the other team in 10 minutes.
I'm not even talking about a 1v1 here. I'm talking about for the mode period. She never has to get near him to lose 1v1. She just picks people off slowly but surely. We didn't play a single game where she didn't end up being the focal point. The later the game got, the more useful Nazeebo was and he was needed to finish the game, which is why I said those two. I didn't get solo'd by any Zeeb's or see Zeeb soloing any Chromie's that weren't face checking, though.
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