Latest update about them being able to stop botting makes me angry, confused, and sad. Are they that out of touch with reality, or just insane? Why are they going to be able to stop botting, when it exists in EVERY SINGLE F2P game where anything of value exists? The only games where botting doesnt exist is when there is a cost to entry combine dwith constant banning of bot accounts to make the act of botting unprofitable. Their belief that they are going to stop botting in one of the most bottable game genres that's also F2P is completely insane. Why don't they promise to cure cancer and bring world peace while they are at it, both are just as likely to happen.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hex MMOTCG Kickstarter by Cryptozoic Entertainment [Complete, ~$2.5 million funded]
- Thread starter piratepwnsninja
- Start date
Youre actually confusing me so let me see if I understand you,
1- they claim they can stop botting
2- you think this is impossible
3- this makes you really really angry
i dont know how 3 follow 2. Are you just the kind of person who has an aneurysm when people are wrong?
I used to think my hyperbole was out of control but maaaaan. Come on.
You need help
Why do you think it's impossible? I could see how clever analytics can be used to help a lot. They could probably test it using the games own ai.
No game in the history of games has stopped botting successfully, unless success includes game where there is no financial or gameplay advantage to be gained from doing so because it has no value. No company, even companies with 2000x the resources and technical expertise of Crypto have been able to stopp botting. Blizzard hasn't stopped it, online poker hasn't stopped it, no one has stopped it. Them making a claim that they can stop botting with their analytics is pure snake oil and insulting. The PvE in this game will be botted, period. The only reason botting would stop in this game is if the PvE cards reach a point where they are utterly worthless.
There is only one way to stop botting and thats high cost of entry + aggressive banning of bot accounts. Maybe it will be possible if they require you to link a credit card, but besides that its impossible in a F2P game.
There is only one way to stop botting and thats high cost of entry + aggressive banning of bot accounts. Maybe it will be possible if they require you to link a credit card, but besides that its impossible in a F2P game.
So people have questions about bots and security and you expect them to say "no promises, sorry"?
Gary Whitta thanks you for proving him right again
Interesting how you were able to quantify the level of technical expertise and compare them in such a way. Very interesting.
Well, I hope they're listening. It can't be done simply because it can't be done. Trying is an insult!
I agree that it is basically impossible to entirely eradicate botting 100%, but it seems like the message is meant to convey that they are taking a hard-line stance against botting, and are -- at least claiming to be -- aggressive about reducing the impact bots have on the economy.
I don't think they will be totally successful. But I like that they are at least trying. Will they be as aggressive as they're claiming to be? I doubt that, too. I don't think the bans will be that swift, and I doubt they can neatly roll stuff back without harming other innocent people.
It's not a simple problem, or others would have already solved it.
You know... there are tiers below the $120 one. Why is the choice paying $120 or completely avoiding the game altogether? Seems kind of extreme to me.
Not to mention the fact that it gives you one actual playable Lotus a day.
Lotuses will be used for high-end raiding and that's it, unless there are really difficult dungeons that people want to farm more quickly. I don't think it's quite as big a deal as some are making it out to be. Yes, it's incredibly valuable over time, but it provides no serious advantage that makes you buy the $120 tier.
Dat Lotus
Who cares? Why are you freaking out about this?
In reality it will probably be much lower than that, as not everyone will be logging in every day. Add to that the fact that many people are probably going to be hoarding them as well (myself included), and it's possible that they'll actually be fairly scarce.
Assuming the game is successful, and we end up with a stable player-base of 100000, it would still take almost three months to produce a full playset for everyone at peak output (granted not everyone will be PvEing, but still). On top of that, every time the card is used it's destroyed, so supply will always be decreasing.
So, the card has value, we're just not sure how much value yet. It really all depends on how active and lucrative the PvE side of the game is.
The value proposition is what makes most of the tiers below King invisible unless that's the maximum you want to spend. You get some Champions you don't know if you'll want more than another in-game one. You'll get alternate art for cards you were going to collect eventually anyway. You get some PvE equipment up front that saves you from a certain amount of grinding. I just see most of it as Day 1 aesthetic or small advantage DLC, all of which I usually ignore. The Lotus Garden is a bit different; it's on the end of concrete advantage because it's essentially a free source of income that you will always be able to trade for gold and platinum. Especially if the game gets popular enough that the people with the gardens become a tiny fraction of the player base. And you think about that guy from your childhood who could always sell enough cards to buy whatever card he wanted and still have enough leftover to buy and sell more cards. Now, unlike your younger self who couldn't justify the capital or effort to do what that guy did (or had parents that stopped you), you can be that guy using your adulthood capital.
And really, doesn't everyone want to be the guy?
And really, doesn't everyone want to be the guy?
Well, you don't only get PvE exclusives at the tiers below $120. You also get a ton of boosters, worth way more than the cost of the tier you purchased. Sure, the Lotus is nice, but you can't just ignore everything else that the lower tiers give you.
If we haven't already hit the extended goal, we probably will in the next couple of hours. Paypal was at ~$93000 four days ago. Hopefully today's update shows up the next extended goal, and hopefully it's not going to be another 300k away. Another Producer and an additional Primal today so far.
Edit: Another Primal just now. I wonder how close they'll get to selling out on Primal and Producer, I never thought there would be this many.
If we haven't already hit the extended goal, we probably will in the next couple of hours. Paypal was at ~$93000 four days ago. Hopefully today's update shows up the next extended goal, and hopefully it's not going to be another 300k away. Another Producer and an additional Primal today so far.
Edit: Another Primal just now. I wonder how close they'll get to selling out on Primal and Producer, I never thought there would be this many.
Saw this today, I thought this was pretty cool, bet most of the audience here would be in same camp as me - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/egmats/egmats-the-next-generation-of-play-mats
I never use playmats, but this one I'd be interested in trying.
I never use playmats, but this one I'd be interested in trying.
Update went live here.
Not much to note, still 20k short of the goal. Paypal at just over 100k. Showed the card that was originally supposed to be bundled with the t-shirt.
Shirts are apparently only available in the store for another month before they're gone forever.
I wonder if the four new decks they're showing are starter decks. Should be interesting, although I'll miss it because I'm going to be working. ;_;
Not much to note, still 20k short of the goal. Paypal at just over 100k. Showed the card that was originally supposed to be bundled with the t-shirt.
Shirts are apparently only available in the store for another month before they're gone forever.
I wonder if the four new decks they're showing are starter decks. Should be interesting, although I'll miss it because I'm going to be working. ;_;
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Holy shit at Omen of Oblivion :lol
Yeah, it's pretty good. One cost to void target card of choice (and take a peek at your opponent's entire library, which is nice).
Although, it's not all copies of a card, and it's deck only, so there are some restrictions.
Still though, pretty strong.
Yeah seriously. WTF?
1. look through opponent's entire deck
2. remove from game
3. get another copy of same spell after first one resolves, for free
4. WTF again, 1 mana
Wow.
Well, the opponent has the actually draw the card before it's voided and the effect resolves, which means you won't get to play it again until then. It's entirely possible that the card ends up at the bottom after a shuffle and Omen never resolves as a result.
Although, just looking at the opponent's library by itself is pretty good for one cost. Will be incredibly valuable in drafts, first-pick material for sure.
Although, just looking at the opponent's library by itself is pretty good for one cost. Will be incredibly valuable in drafts, first-pick material for sure.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's insane in PvE as well. Target yourself.
It's insane in a black/blue mill deck. The cards either get discarded from mill or voided on draw. I can see that deck running 3 or 4 just to help against things that could counter it.
Add to the fact that Omen is a rare, so that it will definitely see play in many drafts.
Eh... my biggest issue with this is that it feels like a playmat+smartphone. But I already have playmats, and I already have a smartphone. I wouldn't mind buying an app from them with all of the same functionality and software updates being given to their touch screen.
I noticed that there was no "Shuffle target deck" stipulation in the text, but I can't imagine that you won't be forced to after it's played... right?
Minsc
Gold Member
It's an interesting proposition, because you're trading a card spot in your hand for something that does something useful immediately (like you could have a creature or direct damage instead of this thing) for the chance to do something useful down the road.
The biggest payback is if your opponent actually does draw the card you've chosen, they essentially get no draw phase for a turn, since the drawn card is voided and they don't get to draw another. Not the biggest deal in the world, since you had to use a card of your own to do it, but still powerful enough to consider.
Edit: Also, I see in the update they're counting down the Dungeon Crawler tiers. ~300 left, so sooner or later there should be a $75,000 bump if they start selling out quick.
Regarding the Spectral Lotus here is the text about it from their page again:
It sounds like they are indeed aware it's a tad generous, and it's intentional to reward their early backers.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I want to assume it just happens since well they don't really need to tell you too.
Otherwise it would be an instant win 1 mana card :lol
You do realize it doesn't trigger from draw only right?
Minsc
Gold Member
Well, it has to start from their deck and make it in to their hand right? Most likely way of that happening would be them drawing it? If it mills in to their graveyard, nothing happens.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It means they can not search for it or use a card to bring it from the grave to their hands as well.
The only way around it would be to play the card directly from the grave.
Well unless this game has rampant tutor effects it'll trigger on draw most of the time. And if Tutors are a thing you can just choose one of your other copies of the chosen card (assuming this is constructed, of course).
True. But dumping stuff into your yard, to then get it back to your hand, to then be able to finally cast it doesn't sound that scary.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Well, it also ensures that a card can't be used to search for that specific card, or it will be voided.
Will it tell you which of the copies was targeted?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You can't cast it in that situation still it would get voided.
It should, Hex alters the text of cards.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
The only way around it would be to somehow cast it directly from your deck, or directly from the graveyard. Cards that allow that exception will be few, if not exist at all. Unless the specific card had regen or something like that.
Ah, true.
I think it would just put the "Whenever it would enter your hand" text directly on the card. Which you'd be able to see while searching it up. I suppose it could put it on there secretly, but then you'd still just be depending on dumb luck for your opponent to pick it.
Well yeah. My point was that an opponent taking all that effort just to cast a spell normally isn't that scary. So this card hosing that strategy isn't a big deal. Typical scary graveyard shenanigans involves stuff that is super expensive being cheated onto the field, not into your hand. Of course this is all talking as if the game is exactly Magic, but not having played it that is the only point of reference I have.
listerofsmeg42
Neo Member
I am very much looking forward to this game, it looks well thought out and familiar and the artwork is excellent(one of the draws of MTG for me). I hope to throw down some money for the Kickstarter before it ends to get a little boost out of the gate. I look forward to this because I have recently moved and my friend and I will still be able to get our card game kicks from this.
There's no need. They don't have to show you their deck in the order it's in. Just an alphabetical list or something.
In constructed it won't be a good card, that much is true. However, in drafts it's going to be powerful, as there are less cards, and getting dupes of powerful rares/legendaries can be difficult (if not impossible), which means that if a deck is hinging on a particular strong rare or legendary you can win right there. Not to mention the fact that knowing exactly what's in your opponent's deck is a great effect by itself.
Ah, yeah. That makes sense, I'm just stuck in the mentality of "shuffle" after every library modification. Most (all?) current DTCGs still shuffle the deck after you play a card like this, so it didn't even cross my mind.
You can't convince me to back as much as I did and not even put down for a $250 tier!
I have to agree with the King of Generalizations here, it's kinda weak outside draft.
Is 250 required for guild izayoi?
4 omen in a deck and void resource card of your opponent, not a bad thing i believe
It won't be consistent enough to be as OP as a lot of people are making it out to be.
Fragamemnon
Member
Spending a card to potentially remove a draw step of your opponent only works if the entirety of your opponent's deck is completely dependent on that one card.
Cards like that act as a safety mechanism for a set release, but are generally pretty poor.
Cards like that act as a safety mechanism for a set release, but are generally pretty poor.
Your opponents openning hand has 2-4 resource cards in it most likely. You play this T1 on the play, and remove one of their resources. You are now down a card, they aren't. Now on their turn one they have a 1/53 chance to draw 1 of their 20-22 lands, if they do, you now 1 for 1'ed them, but you also wasted 1 mana and a turn, while they didn't. This isn't just bad, it's INCREDIBAD.
This card is designed to remove 1 of cards in decks that a have a single finisher, maybe a 1 of card they reanimate, or a 1x storm spell they tutor for, that sort of thing. It is beyond awful trying to use it to remove generally good but interchangeable cards from your opponents deck.
Just compare it to a discard spell instead, yes, you'd pay more than 1 mana to remove any 1 card form your opponents hand. Now change that to instead be a 1/53 chance to do so, thats the rough power level of using this card to remove good cards from your opponents deck. Its not designed for that, at all.
It's too early to tell, but I think Omen has some very solid applications - mostly in control decks. Take a look at W/U control decks that run millstones and / or howling mines. You omen for the equivalent of a his artifact control or barring that his more difficult offensive threats. Or if your opponent is relying on Pact of Pain, you wait for him to throw it out and then start targeting his life drain / life gain effects.
It also has the potential to shut down combo-based decks. I'd splash 1-2 in my deck just so I can see what they're running. Sure it's situational, but in a strong, control-heavy deck the information about your opponent's deck alone is worth a lot. The potential to further disrupt it is also very nice.
It also has the potential to shut down combo-based decks. I'd splash 1-2 in my deck just so I can see what they're running. Sure it's situational, but in a strong, control-heavy deck the information about your opponent's deck alone is worth a lot. The potential to further disrupt it is also very nice.
In control decks and against specific decks I can see it being good. I don't know if I can justify MB a card that might have no use depending on the deck my opponent is playing. It seems like a decent SB choice though.