Now this one I like.
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Hex: Shards of Fate MMOTCG - Closed Beta Thread
- Thread starter ultron87
- Start date
Now this one I like.
IllumiNate
Member
Ryuukan I'm agreeing with all your posts on the Cze forums. Keep it up!
JustProgress
Member
Same. I'm a lurker because I think I would get instabanned from there, but you're basically voicing all my concerns
We really should be posting if we're in agreement with him. He's right, CZE needs to see that there's more upset customers, it might light a fire under their asses.
I post occasionally, but honestly most of the people on that forum make me want to go full troll mode on them.
Maybe CZE should learn 2 beta. Can't test something that doesn't function to any degree.
That's a shame. Single-elimination draft is just insanely poor value for me.
Are Draft the best of three?
You expect a legitimate reply from the official forums? You be better off spending your time rolling about in dog shit.
Spiritreaver
Member
As much as people are griping about tournaments.... Just wait till AH/trading hits. It's gonna be amazing.
It's important to remember that a beta's primary purpose isn't to provide anyone with enjoyment, and the main benefit in this phase of any entertainment it does provide is it keeps people testing it. If there's a piece of software in beta that doesn't break it's not actually in beta.
Everyone knows it's a "beta" but continuing to point out a textbook definition from Software Project Management 405 section 3 has nearly no relevance.
The term "beta" is a very gray area now as the gaming development world has changed. It's absurd to imply people who are buying things from a real store selling product are only doing so to test software.
Whether they accept it or not doesn't change reality. CZE allowed people to participate in the development process, and making purchases is one way people are engaging in that process. Things will break and you have absolutely no idea what is required to fix those things and, therefore, no idea how long it should take.
Don't go down this path. If you follow KHarvey's tag, you'll see that he will argue with you to no end.
That said, different companies mean different things when providing Beta access. But Betas now are often used as soft launches to pad numbers and drum up initial interest in a game, so that's what's expected. It's not that people don't expect things to change or need tweaks, but that most people don't expect things to be massively broken.
I think much much less people would be complaining about tournaments not working if it were still in Alpha.
and people will be upset, disappointed and question the competency of the developers of this game if things continue to break with the company having "absolutely no idea what is required to fix those things."
There is nothing to argue. People have wants, feelings and expectations. It's the reason they backed this project. You can tell someone they are wrong for being abusive or insulting. It's not wrong to have negative feelings for how a project is going nor to express them publicly.
The idea is to get more people stressing the infrastructure. This will inevitably cause problems, which is what you should want if your desire is to have a part in creating a good game.
I guess I don't understand the desire. Should they finish the game internally and call it a beta for a few months to give backers nothing more than mislabeled early access?
I didn't suggest the company has no idea, I mean that we have no idea. This is what it means to actually be a part of a real beta. Things break and then the developers working on the code need to figure out why and fix it. There's no rule of thumb for how long a "thing" should take to fix because every single problem is unique to the project. I get that some people just want early access, but as someone interested in a well tested game I want this beta to be used by lots of people, stressed to its limits and broken by the user base repeatedly. Then I want CZE to take their time addressing these problems the right way instead of patching things together as if it were a released product to satisfy customers of a finished game. If a problem requires they rip code out and start something over I absolutely want them to do that since this is the exact time for that.
JustProgress
Member
KHarvey, I'm curious about your thoughts on the monetization of this testing period, then. We have our rewards and we can spend real money in the game, presumably safe from a wipe.
Minsc
Gold Member
I was under the impression the infrastructure is falling apart with mere dozens of people participating. It's not like there's 100,000+ people playing Hex games and causing the infrastructure to break apart, like with Hearthstone (which is in the tens of millions).
This is why drafts take as long to start as they do to actually play sometimes. Hearthstone has wait times around 5-20 seconds for Arena matches, while this had wait times of what, an hour? At least 20 minutes I've read. So I guess they needed more people like you say, but it's hard to test stuff that isn't up and people are just frustrated to see it fall back down right after being put up a third, fourth or fifth time.
It's important to test that infrastructure as well, and since there won't be a wipe you can use everything you buy now and/or in the future when things are released and stable. It's up to the individual user if they want to spend the money during the beta. If packs or entry fees are lost in tournaments that don't complete for whatever reason those should be replaced.
The problem might not just be having enough, but also that fixing one thing can cause weaknesses to be exposed elsewhere. Or a problem might not be defendant upon the load. The ultimate goal is that the frustration now leads to a robust product down the line. Testing is never really enjoyable in a playing-a-game sense(or using-a-product sense, more generally), but it can be fun if problem solving gets you going.
Minsc
Gold Member
By the way, my experiences with Hex and Hearthstone are not exactly the same. I was in Hearthstone during the end of the Closed Beta, before they made it so everyone who registered for the closed beta got in.
Hearthstone's main issues were things in game, like minions swapping position on your client, and certain cards not triggering properly... some of these problems lasted a very long time, and the players (some of them) were very vocal about it, and gave the game quite a bit of flak for it.
Hex's main issues to me seem to be much more diverse. Almost every step of the way I experienced problems, right from creating my account. The system had some sort of issue when I signed up for the account during the alpha, where it told me my username was taken (even though it assigned it to me), and made me think I had to pick another. So I did this like 5 or 6 times, each time being told it was already in use, before researching on their forums that their servers had an issue, and most likely my first attempt did go through.
The Hex mac client simply crashes all the time for me, while the Hearthstone one ran fine. PC client is fine with Hex for me, but I just feel there's been way more issues in Hex than in Hearthstone.
Stuff like browsing your card library in Hex is much slower than Hearthstone. Hex loads up each of the 20+ thumbnails on the screen like it's generating it on each run when you look at your collection, while Hearthstone has all artwork instantly show up, and it's even animated.
Everything about Hearthstone seems much more polished than Hex I guess. And I think Hex will get better, but I'm not sure it will ever get to the point it feels as smooth as Hearthstone.
In fact, I'm starting to think DotP 2015 with it's full deck building might actually surpass Hex, which was supposed to surpass MTGO. Hex is in a unique position I think, to be a TCG as serious as MTGO, but with more content and better UI. However, if DotP 2015 has drafting, full deck creation, a better engine, and so on... Hex will suffer a bit, especially if it's still in the state it is in now, when DotP 2015 launches.
Hex needs some really big strides in the stability/engine quality in the next few months, so I hope it delivers that progress, as I'd rather spend my time with Hex than MTG, but if MTG is a better piece of software and more enjoyable, I may turn back to it instead.
Hearthstone's main issues were things in game, like minions swapping position on your client, and certain cards not triggering properly... some of these problems lasted a very long time, and the players (some of them) were very vocal about it, and gave the game quite a bit of flak for it.
Hex's main issues to me seem to be much more diverse. Almost every step of the way I experienced problems, right from creating my account. The system had some sort of issue when I signed up for the account during the alpha, where it told me my username was taken (even though it assigned it to me), and made me think I had to pick another. So I did this like 5 or 6 times, each time being told it was already in use, before researching on their forums that their servers had an issue, and most likely my first attempt did go through.
The Hex mac client simply crashes all the time for me, while the Hearthstone one ran fine. PC client is fine with Hex for me, but I just feel there's been way more issues in Hex than in Hearthstone.
Stuff like browsing your card library in Hex is much slower than Hearthstone. Hex loads up each of the 20+ thumbnails on the screen like it's generating it on each run when you look at your collection, while Hearthstone has all artwork instantly show up, and it's even animated.
Everything about Hearthstone seems much more polished than Hex I guess. And I think Hex will get better, but I'm not sure it will ever get to the point it feels as smooth as Hearthstone.
In fact, I'm starting to think DotP 2015 with it's full deck building might actually surpass Hex, which was supposed to surpass MTGO. Hex is in a unique position I think, to be a TCG as serious as MTGO, but with more content and better UI. However, if DotP 2015 has drafting, full deck creation, a better engine, and so on... Hex will suffer a bit, especially if it's still in the state it is in now, when DotP 2015 launches.
Hex needs some really big strides in the stability/engine quality in the next few months, so I hope it delivers that progress, as I'd rather spend my time with Hex than MTG, but if MTG is a better piece of software and more enjoyable, I may turn back to it instead.
I don't think any online card game will be as smooth as Hearthstone. Simplicity/balance issues aside, Blizzard is really good at making slick UIs and ensuring that their games *feel* right. That's one of their strengths, and very few can compete there. Not CZE.
I am not totally familiar with the upcoming 2015 game, but I have played the earlier ones. You may be giving Duels too much credit. It might have all of the features you listed, but it won't be fully-fledged. It's still going to be a self-contained game with a limited card pool. It's still going to be Magic-lite. The brand name and general familiarity will definitely draw numbers though. So I do hope that Duels lights a fire under Hex to make some major QoL/UI/art changes.
Competition is good.
JustProgress
Member
I think one thing is for certain, CZE are complete novice video game developers. I mean amateurs. Perhaps I didn't do enough of my own research when Kickstarting, so it may be on me, but when you say you're on the finish line and you still can't implement features a year later...yeah. I mean tournaments themselves have been in testing for the last 6 months. I realize that the first issue was a new middleware problem, but it's still disconcerting when half the game is implemented and the half of the implementation doesn't work.
Oh absolutely, it's a different experience. I was in the closed hearthstone beta as well, and that was pretty near completion even then, aside from some smaller issues you mentioned. In fact I played it at PAX East last year when they first announced it and the game felt as if it could almost be a released product! I think the differences are largely due to the fact we're so closely integrated into the development process with Hex, where we've seen the progression from alpha through into beta now. For better or worse we're sort of in it together. Of course there's also a pretty large difference in terms of resources available and experience with designing software (back end stuff like payment processing and account creation are Blizzard's bread and butter these days), but you can bet that even Hearthstone went days or weeks where it didn't work and we just never got to see that.
I guess my feeling is that it's not about what problems crop up but what CZE does with those problems. Clearly the software is far from being ready for the masses and there's a ton of work to do, but from our perspective it's really tough to know what's the result of poor design or management and what's just typical development troubles. We don't have the kind of insight into the process to come to those conclusions, and problems taking awhile to fix unfortunately can be the result of anything.
I think having a community interested in the game enough to want to participate in your beta, and then interested in it enough to be upset when they can't play the game, are two very valuable resources CZE need to use to their advantage as effectively as possible. If they squander that resource, and in addition can't overcome the challenges of development, that will be readily apparent to all of us before release. But not just yet.
IllumiNate
Member
Yes and I'm looking forward to their replies on my thread I'll be creating tomorrow if Tournaments aren't up. It's gonna be a massive thread, it'll be called Tough Love.
JustProgress
Member
Let's see if they can last until after my final is over
IllumiNate
Member
My first Hex draft! Built a terribad Wild/Saph deck. Ugh went 1-2
Stream going live!
Will be giving away a beta key + many games
Come join me at : www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc
Will be giving away a beta key + many games
Come join me at : www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc
Played two drafts so far, went third in both. Loving this so far. It's just as good as Magic for me (someone who only ever played standard) and has so much potential with being just a game instead of paper as well.
I'm already coming up with some deck ideas for when we can trade cards. My most recent draft was draw/bury with some rage and flight (red/blue), and made me come up with this:
Champion: Nin the Shadow ([2] Target champion buries 2 cards)
4x Spawn of Othuyeg (Flight, bury opponent's top card on attack, 5 cards if 10+ cards in their graveyard)
4x High Tomb Lord (+1/+1 for each card in graveyards)
4x Chronic Madness (bury their top 4, escalate)
4x Twisted Fate (bury their top when you draw)
4x Sabotage (put 4 Booby Trap in opponent's desk, which deal 4 damage when put in their graveyard)
Put that with some stuff like Murder, Oracle Song and I think it would be a pretty fun deck to play. I just know I'm going to spend too much money on this game.
I'm already coming up with some deck ideas for when we can trade cards. My most recent draft was draw/bury with some rage and flight (red/blue), and made me come up with this:
Champion: Nin the Shadow ([2] Target champion buries 2 cards)
4x Spawn of Othuyeg (Flight, bury opponent's top card on attack, 5 cards if 10+ cards in their graveyard)
4x High Tomb Lord (+1/+1 for each card in graveyards)
4x Chronic Madness (bury their top 4, escalate)
4x Twisted Fate (bury their top when you draw)
4x Sabotage (put 4 Booby Trap in opponent's desk, which deal 4 damage when put in their graveyard)
Put that with some stuff like Murder, Oracle Song and I think it would be a pretty fun deck to play. I just know I'm going to spend too much money on this game.
IllumiNate
Member
^^ Looks fun, give it a shot! Maybe add some Ancestors Chosen?
So are drafts up and running alright? I don't wanna start one if they're wonky
I just finished one. Didn't notice any lag or issues.
Shrennin
Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
This whole Blizzard vs. CZE thing is not really comparable. CZE allowed players in the game in a true alpha phase that most developers wouldn't (including CZE themselves). This is why I feel the beta for Hex is truly a beta -- just like the alpha was truly an alpha. This beta is even testing new hardware for the first time. The only issue here is allowing purchases, but as long as people don't lose money from testing then I don't see much issue. I also think letting players in the alpha probably made it harder for CZE to determine a good time to go through with monetization as well.
Blizzard, on the other hand, has MANY MORE developers, more money, and the testing phases for Hearthstone wasn't actual testing like in Hex.
Blizzard, on the other hand, has MANY MORE developers, more money, and the testing phases for Hearthstone wasn't actual testing like in Hex.
AbundantChoice
Member
Getting a mill deck to work in draft is so, so hard. You need an absolutely perfect combination of cards to pull it off. At the same time, nobody expects mill in draft, so if you can get the right combo of cards often times they won't have a response (as long as you can stay alive long enough; the inherent slowness of mill decks can be a big problem)
I like the current draft reward table, as i'd almost rather have gold for rolling chests than more boosters at this point.
All 45 cards you draft you add to your library for keeps, and you will use 40 of them in your deck during play.
That's cool. I opened about 15 of my packs so I've got about 10 free drafts there left over and I think 3 free ones from my Kickstarter pledge. If you do VIP now do you start getting packs during the beta phase?
AbundantChoice
Member
You'll want to reserve 16-18 of your 40-card deck slots for resources of your choosing (resource cards are 'free' and you don't draft them, you basically have an unlimited supply to use in your deckbuilding at all times), and then you'll play 24-22 of your drafted cards in your deck. But yeah, you get to keep all the cards you draft, whether or not you actually use them in the tournament or not.
Well, right now i'm reading a thread about a guy who is not happy about the draft because in his match he was mana flooded.
Things are getting really ridiculous from both part.
Just drafted a fairly solid UW deck imo:
4x shield trainer
1x reversion
1x goblin cooking pot
3x rigid buffalo
2x clear sky stormcaller
1x spearcliff pegasus
2x wind whisperer
1x solitary exile
1x inner conflict
1x noble citizenry
1x sky'le griffin
1x mystic of the tranquil dream
1x forgotton lord
1x angelic ascension
2x captain of the dragon guard
12x diamond shard
5x sapphire shard
And I got a bye round 1 lol. 2 packs yes!
Edit: Lost in the finals to a dorf deck. saw at least 2 gem crazed berserkers, 3 bombers, 2 war hulk plans and a volcannon.
4x shield trainer
1x reversion
1x goblin cooking pot
3x rigid buffalo
2x clear sky stormcaller
1x spearcliff pegasus
2x wind whisperer
1x solitary exile
1x inner conflict
1x noble citizenry
1x sky'le griffin
1x mystic of the tranquil dream
1x forgotton lord
1x angelic ascension
2x captain of the dragon guard
12x diamond shard
5x sapphire shard
And I got a bye round 1 lol. 2 packs yes!
Edit: Lost in the finals to a dorf deck. saw at least 2 gem crazed berserkers, 3 bombers, 2 war hulk plans and a volcannon.
I just lost a draft match because I had 0 seconds left, my opponent had only 1 HP left, no creatures, and I was already in my turn and could see the "attack" button. I would have needed 5 more seconds to win the match and both of us were under 1:30 minutes left.
... The time limit is kinda cutting it close for 3 match tournaments and I am really angry about this right now.
... The time limit is kinda cutting it close for 3 match tournaments and I am really angry about this right now.
Motte in Paris
Member
Backed at Grand King + Collector, but since I was in the Hearthstone beta from very early on, I never really got around to playing Hex during the alpha (started it up once very early on, but after some technical issues and experiencing the still very rough UI I figured I would be happier trying again in beta rather then alpha).
Really looking forward to finally giving this a real try now..
Oh hey, fancy meeting you here! I just found your stream earlier when checking out the Hex streams (first Hacky, then you) - tuned in during that crazy game where you won with 30 seconds left on the timer and am right now watching some earlier drafts before trying my hands on it myself.
Really looking forward to finally giving this a real try now..
Oh hey, fancy meeting you here! I just found your stream earlier when checking out the Hex streams (first Hacky, then you) - tuned in during that crazy game where you won with 30 seconds left on the timer and am right now watching some earlier drafts before trying my hands on it myself.