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[Shrennin]

Not sure why Hearthstone opted to completely remove it.

I'm guessing because Blizzard didn't make the WoW TCG (Cryptozoic, makers of Hex, did) and just decided to create their own mechanics from scratch. I'm guessing Cryptozoic kept the resource system similar in idea to Magic rather than their own WoW TCG because they saw something potentially wrong with the WoW TCG system.

 

[Boken]

Resources add depth to deck building, which is core to tcgs

Or has been. It's really just shows that they're going for a more traditional and "hardcore" audience.

They can easily expand the resource cards to have game play effects, like in MTG

 

[Shrennin]

Resources add depth to deck building, which is core to tcgs

Or has been. It's really just shows that they're going for a more traditional and "hardcore" audience.

They can easily expand the resource cards to have game play effects, like in MTG

It's also good to have some amount of luck. Resources bring that element in there (but, like you said, a lot of the potential luck can be eliminated with good deck building skill).

 

[ultron87]

I've personally never been a fan of "use any card as a resource" systems. It leads to shitty situations where you have make a crappy choice of burning a cool card to play some other card. I put cards in my deck because I want to use them, not because I want to put them face down on a table. Admittedly the lack of mana screw is a big bonus to this kind of system, but there are enough other ways to mitigate that I don't mind it much anymore. No matter how a card game is designed there are going to be games you don't get to play due to randomness, that's just the nature of the beast.

And the land system leads to the huge advantage of the color pie system which is one of the best parts of Magic. You can't do that with generic resources. Instead you usually need to staple outside of the game deckbuilding rules to make it so you can't just make "best 40 cards in the game".dec

 

[Shrennin]

And the land system leads to the huge advantage of the color pie system which is one of the best parts of Magic. You can't do that with generic resources. Instead you usually need to staple outside of the game deckbuilding rules to make it so you can't just make "best 40 cards in the game".dec

That's actually a really good point. The color pie system lends itself to different gameplay styles and strategies as well. It's more focused than the general resource system.

I will say that I think it was wise for Blizzard to put a class system in Hearthstone because it helped dampen the loss felt by the color pie though. Or at least it seems like it does. Haven't got a chance to test Hearthstone out yet.

As for Hex, I'm trying to decide if I want to custom build an inspire deck or shin'hare deck...

 

[JWong]

I'm guessing because Blizzard didn't make the WoW TCG (Cryptozoic, makers of Hex, did) and just decided to create their own mechanics from scratch. I'm guessing Cryptozoic kept the resource system similar in idea to Magic rather than their own WoW TCG because they saw something potentially wrong with the WoW TCG system.

Ehhhhhhh I think Blizzard stole a lot of shit from the WoW TCG. I mean, practically all of it really.

I wonder if they have to pay them some kind of royalty because I'm sure those guys working with Upperdeck did all the design.

 

[havocau]

Been doing a ton of streaming, seems server went down tho so I'm currently waiting for it to go back up, should be soon.

Come and join me @ www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc

Lots of previous footage of hex from yesterday and today which can be viewed also

 

[KuroNeeko]

It's cool finally seeing the game in action but man, they were REAAAAALLY off when it came to their original beta data of September. I mean, I have plenty of stuff to play and I'm more than willing to wait if the experience will live up to their pitch, but the contrast of where we are compared to where we thought we'd be is pretty jolting.

Been doing a ton of streaming, seems server went down tho so I'm currently waiting for it to go back up, should be soon.

Come and join me @ www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc

Lots of previous footage of hex from yesterday and today which can be viewed also

I'm sure you've heard this before but, that's quite a big d

Spoiler

e

ck you have there!

So do you not get the first mulligan free?

edit: Wow, lots of players naming their kingdoms after a song of ice and fire.

edit2: Aww, I wanted to see your Ancestral / Pack Raptor beatdown. :/

 

[Piano]

I keep reading the thread title as "Sharts of Fate"

 

[Draxal]

That's actually a really good point. The color pie system lends itself to different gameplay styles and strategies as well. It's more focused than the general resource system.

I will say that I think it was wise for Blizzard to put a class system in Hearthstone because it helped dampen the loss felt by the color pie though. Or at least it seems like it does. Haven't got a chance to test Hearthstone out yet.

As for Hex, I'm trying to decide if I want to custom build an inspire deck or shin'hare deck...

I'm in the beta for hearthstone atm, and the issue I have with it as that all the cards feel very the samey and the classes don't provide enough distinction. It plays really fast though, so I guess that what Blizzard is going for. I just prefer some ... more meat in my games.

Ehhhhhhh I think Blizzard stole a lot of shit from the WoW TCG. I mean, practically all of it really.

I wonder if they have to pay them some kind of royalty because I'm sure those guys working with Upperdeck did all the design.

Well, Hex is pretty much Magic the gathering with Wow's TCG heros. Not exactly the most unique design ever.

Anyway, has wave 1 of alpha been stablized. Is it likely wave 2 (Dungeon crawlere here) will be sent out tomorrow?

 

[Shrennin]

Anyway, has wave 1 of alpha been stablized. Is it likely wave 2 (Dungeon crawlere here) will be sent out tomorrow?

I wouldn't count on it. The official word is that wave 2 will be announced after the invites for it are sent. The alpha client is extremely alpha but honestly the server stability is getting a lot better. I just played my first game against a real person without any problems so there's always that chance.

 

[JustProgress]

It's cool finally seeing the game in action but man, they were REAAAAALLY off when it came to their original beta data of September. I mean, I have plenty of stuff to play and I'm more than willing to wait if the experience will live up to their pitch, but the contrast of where we are compared to where we thought we'd be is pretty jolting.



I'm sure you've heard this before but, that's quite a big d

Spoiler

e

ck you have there!

So do you not get the first mulligan free?

edit: Wow, lots of players naming their kingdoms after a song of ice and fire.

edit2: Aww, I wanted to see your Ancestral / Pack Raptor beatdown. :/

I've said this before but yeah this is a hella hella alpha client. Like really alpha. They must have been high when they guess September beta. Does anyone even think we'll get close to beta in 2013?

 

[JWong]

Well, Hex is pretty much Magic the gathering with Wow's TCG heros. Not exactly the most unique design ever.

Anyway, has wave 1 of alpha been stablized. Is it likely wave 2 (Dungeon crawlere here) will be sent out tomorrow?

I really like WoW TCG with the raiding and stuff.

So I gotta wait and see how the raid features go.

 

[charlequin]

Ugh, MTG style resources? Not a fan.

MTG is the most strategically deep CCG because of the land system. I consider a complex card-based resource system to be a big plus for a game that wants to stand up to years of high-level play.

I'm guessing because Blizzard didn't make the WoW TCG (Cryptozoic, makers of Hex, did) and just decided to create their own mechanics from scratch. I'm guessing Cryptozoic kept the resource system similar in idea to Magic rather than their own WoW TCG because they saw something potentially wrong with the WoW TCG system.

WotC implemented that same system (play cards face-down as lands) into Kaijudo, which is a followup Magic-like CCG they released, and they've said it was a big mistake. It basically gets rid of a strategically deep (there are different approaches with different tradeoffs) but easy to understand system in favor of one that's strategically shallow (there's basically always an objectively correct card to play as a land) but difficult for players to learn.

I'm in the beta for hearthstone atm, and the issue I have with it as that all the cards feel very the samey and the classes don't provide enough distinction.

This was my experience with it as well and is why I have basically no interest in Hearthstone.

 

[JWong]

MTG is the most strategically deep CCG because of the land system. I consider a complex card-based resource system to be a big plus for a game that wants to stand up to years of high-level play.

What strategy is there? You play a land and tap it for resource. Woopie. You build a deck with a good ratio and hope to the poker gods that you draw well. It's more chance than strategy which is why I think it's better to forget about it and focus on the cards that matter.

Played Netrunner or Battletech? Those are truly remarkable resource systems.

 

[havocau]

Will be streaming again in around 1 hour from this post... www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc



food time!

 

[Boken]

What strategy is there? You play a land and tap it for resource. Woopie. You build a deck with a good ratio and hope to the poker gods that you draw well. It's more chance than strategy which is why I think it's better to forget about it and focus on the cards that matter.

Played Netrunner or Battletech? Those are truly remarkable resource systems.

i believe the love for the land system is tied hand in hand with the colour pie system -

and the colour pie system creates decision making in both deck building (which school, which splashes, multicolours etc) and strategic choice in gameplay regarding which land to play and when. I'm sure you'd agree that the colour pie system is where a huge amount of depth exists in MTG (schools require decision making in the sense that you cannot run everything, but must choose between them). Highly differentiated schools of magic with their different aims, mechanics and themes are only meaningful if there is a resource system that creates separation between them.

on the point of the land system itself - basic lands are indeed "You play a land and tap it for resource" - but nonbasic lands add mechanics and in most cases, present a risk-reward decision to be made.

i agree with you that lands make the game a bit luck centric but I believe that the benefits outweigh this (and that a better solution hasnt been found) and I also believe that it encourages players to balance their risk during deck building - should i run 2 or 3 lands for a splash of 2 incinerates? should I ACTUALLY try to splash this 2RR really really good red card? etc

 

[charlequin]

What strategy is there?

In deck construction. There's a huge range of different approaches that are possible in competitive Magic, and learning how to construct a mana base effectively is a huge part of advancing in constructed. There's also more than one viable answer, too, which is what makes it more more interesting than the "which card to play facedown" decision.

Played Netrunner or Battletech? Those are truly remarkable resource systems.

Unsurprisingly, both games were designed by Richard Garfield.

i believe the love for the land system is tied hand in hand with the colour pie system -

Great post. You explained exactly what I was thinking about.

 

[JWong]

i believe the love for the land system is tied hand in hand with the colour pie system -

You don't need the colour pie to create interesting decisions. Those TCGs I mentioned are it.

 

[Boken]

You don't need the colour pie to create interesting decisions. Those TCGs I mentioned are it.

Of course not. I'm not denying that net runner isn't deep, it's a wonderful game and a lot of its brilliance comes from its asymmetric game play.

I'm just arguing that in a symmetrical 1v1 CG, having schools should introduce more decision making beyond having a single resource/school

 

[JWong]

Of course not.

But having schools should introduce more decision making beyond having a single resource/school

Yeah I guess that's obvious. I should stop arguing. I'm just bitter that Battletech TCG is dead.

So does Hex really use WoW TCG's hero system? It doesn't seem like it.

 

[KuroNeeko]

Yeah I guess that's obvious. I should stop arguing. I'm just bitter that Battletech TCG is dead.

So does Hex really use WoW TCG's hero system? It doesn't seem like it.

Playing a land (resource card) gives your champion (in PvP) / mercenaries (in PvE) a charge counter. You then can spend charges to activate special abilities unique to that mercenary / champion. For example, you can spend 2 charges to mill the top two cards off your opponent's deck. Spend 3 charges to give a troop (unit) flying permanently and so on.

Some cards / artifacts also add charges to your mercs / champs.

edit: Hmm, looks like the wording on champions / mercs is a bit unclear.

 

[JWong]

Playing a land (resource card) gives your champion (in PvP) / mercenaries (in PvE) a charge counter. You then can spend charges to activate special abilities unique to that mercenary / champion. For example, you can spend 2 charges to mill the top two cards off your opponent's deck. Spend 3 charges to give a troop (unit) flying permanently and so on.

Some cards / artifacts also add charges to your mercs / champs.

edit: Hmm, looks like the wording on champions / mercs is a bit unclear.

And it's different from each uh champ/merc?

 

[Arment]

Pretty sad I missed funding this when it was on Kickstarter. Would have King tier'd easily. Definitely gonna be a Slacker Backer though.

 

[Xater]

Yeah I guess that's obvious. I should stop arguing. I'm just bitter that Battletech TCG is dead.

So does Hex really use WoW TCG's hero system? It doesn't seem like it.

I don't like the land system either which is probably why I am having so much fun with Hearthstone and Duel of Champions. Netrunner is also pretty awesome.

So far Hex is kind of a bummer for me. I don't like how it looks and it has a bunch of mechanics I don't really like.

 

[Boken]

Nobody loves lands in and of themselves, it's the colour pie that we love.

The faction system of duels is another "school" system, but it's tired purely to what icon your heroes have which gives it zero strategic depth

And also means that duels can have zero limited format, which is a huge shame cos limited is awesome.

 

[IllumiNate]

I don't like the land system either which is probably why I am having so much fun with Hearthstone and Duel of Champions. Netrunner is also pretty awesome.

So far Hex is kind of a bummer for me. I don't like how it looks and it has a bunch of mechanics I don't really like.

Well then Beat it! why are you here if all you do is complain about the game? Go play Duel of Champions

 

[Boken]

Well then Beat it! why are you here if all you do is complain about the game? Go play Duel of Champions

we're all friends here

 

[Xater]

Nobody loves lands in and of themselves, it's the colour pie that we love.

The faction system of duels is another "school" system, but it's tired purely to what icon your heroes have which gives it zero strategic depth

And also means that duels can have zero limited format, which is a huge shame cos limited is awesome.

I'm just gonna ignore that other guy...

I know it creates way more options but too me it always feels overwhelming, like I have to invest way too much time into deckbuilding to get to the good stuff actually playing the game. Also limiting your options does not mean there aren't interesting decision to be had and strategies to be created.

 

[Boken]

I'm just gonna ignore that other guy...

I know it creates way more options but too me it always feels overwhelming, like I have to invest way too much time into deckbuilding to get to the good stuff actually playing the game. Also limiting your options does not mean there aren't interesting decision to be had and strategies to be created.

I'm not a constructed player, because I don't like copious amounts of deck building like you

- that's why I play limited format (eg arena in hearthstone)

Limited benefits tremendously from colour pie otherwise you just pick the strongest cards

 

[Xater]

I actually like constructed play but feel overwhelmed in something like magic. I guess that's whee the disconnect here might be coming from. This games has something like arena as well right? Is it behind a pay wall?

 

[KuroNeeko]

Can anyone tell me if Shrine of Prosperity makes you play with the top card of your deck revealed?

I'm not a constructed player, because I don't like copious amounts of deck building like you

- that's why I play limited format (eg arena in hearthstone)

Limited benefits tremendously from colour pie otherwise you just pick the strongest cards

I love making decks, I'm just not really in it to win. I try to make decks that win using unusual win conditions like 1-turn kill combos, millstone decks, creatureless decks, token decks and whatnot. I have about 6-7 decks for the alpha already made. Just waiting for the invite.

I'm really looking forward to the PvE portion of the game but I think that's going to be a loooooooooooooooooong way off since they're going to need to have both slots and equipment up in addition to the dungeons themselves. Yeah, probably summer of next year or so... :/

I actually like constructed play but feel overwhelmed in something like magic. I guess that's whee the disconnect here might be coming from. This games has something like arena as well right? Is it behind a pay wall?

The game will support an undetermined number of tournament types. Booster, sealed, and constructed tournaments have been confirmed by the devs. I believe most require some "premium" currency to participate in but there will be an auction house where you can put items / equipment up to generate both gold and the premium currency.

You can probably play in tournaments and what not without spending a dime on the game. I don't know how easy it will be, nor how much time it will take but you can bust your hump in dungeon-like PvE areas, get loot to put up on the AH (or trade?), make currency, then use that currency to buy packs or tickets.

I don't know if they will have casual drafting / sealed formats that are free or if they will support community run tournaments where you can set your own rewards / entrance fees.

 

[Boken]

I actually like constructed play but feel overwhelmed in something like magic. I guess that's whee the disconnect here might be coming from. This games has something like arena as well right? Is it behind a pay wall?

standard format in magic dont actually have that many cards so i dont think its that overwhelming

 

[Ryuukan]

I actually like constructed play but feel overwhelmed in something like magic. I guess that's whee the disconnect here might be coming from. This games has something like arena as well right? Is it behind a pay wall?

I think you mean draft format, which hex will have in the future.

 

[Arveene]

I think you mean draft format, which hex will have in the future.

Arena, would be Hearthstone's version of drafting. It's more of a Limited format type than a draft, but you get the point. Hex will have it in the future. Most likely they'll use event tickets like MTGO. So those will probably cost money. (Plus the 3 boosters) It's too early to tell whether or not you'll be able to draft without paying by playing the PvE (f2p) portion of the game to fund it.

 

[Ryuukan]

Arena, would be Hearthstone's version of drafting. It's more of a Limited format type than a draft, but you get the point. Hex will have it in the future. Most likely they'll use event tickets like MTGO. So those will probably cost money. (Plus the 3 boosters) It's too early to tell whether or not you'll be able to draft without paying by playing the PvE (f2p) portion of the game to fund it.

Oh, he meant like a Sealed deck, my mistake

 

[Arveene]

No I think he meant drafting, I was just saying that the Arena game type in Hearthstone isn't exactly like drafting, but closer to a form of Limited play.

Edit: Sorry, I think I just made things confusing. I don't really know how else to put it.

Changing subjects here, I'm enjoying Hex a lot so far. There's only one issue. I'm having a ton of fun trying to break and fuck up the game as much as possible. I don't think I've played a single game where I haven't found a bug, and I'm enjoying it a ton. I'm just building decks to test out card interactions and more complex things to see what goes wrong.

GAF please help, what's wrong with me?

In case anyone thought this would be one of those preview alphas/betas, you would be wrong. I am not saying the game is bad, it's quite good. I can see myself enjoying this a ton once beta / release comes around. Hex fully taking advantage of the digital TCG potential. I'm hoping that this alpha being a real alpha doesn't affect people's impressions of the game in a bad way.

 

[Boken]

i put both sealed and drafting under the limited title

technically however, hearthstones arena is "random draft"

 

[ultron87]

The weird thing about Arena in Hearthstone is that you don't get to keep the cards you pick. This obviously helps to keep the cost down since you're just buying an entry and not an entry + 3 booster packs, but it also removes half the fun of drafting.

Nice thing about Hex is that digital pricing means drafts should be like... 7 dollars instead of 15. Which is pretty reasonable for a couple hours of entertainment + cards.

 

[Shinjica]

The weird thing about Arena in Hearthstone is that you don't get to keep the cards you pick. This obviously helps to keep the cost down since you're just buying an entry and not an entry + 3 booster packs, but it also removes half the fun of drafting.

Nice thing about Hex is that digital pricing means drafts should be like... 7 dollars instead of 15. Which is pretty reasonable for a couple hours of entertainment + cards.

I'm pretty happy about my pro tier reward from kickstarter. Drafting seem really fun to do and one draft free a week is a big save for my wallet

 

[Draxal]

No I think he meant drafting, I was just saying that the Arena game type in Hearthstone isn't exactly like drafting, but closer to a form of Limited play.

Edit: Sorry, I think I just made things confusing. I don't really know how else to put it.

Changing subjects here, I'm enjoying Hex a lot so far. There's only one issue. I'm having a ton of fun trying to break and fuck up the game as much as possible. I don't think I've played a single game where I haven't found a bug, and I'm enjoying it a ton. I'm just building decks to test out card interactions and more complex things to see what goes wrong.

GAF please help, what's wrong with me?

In case anyone thought this would be one of those preview alphas/betas, you would be wrong. I am not saying the game is bad, it's quite good. I can see myself enjoying this a ton once beta / release comes around. Hex fully taking advantage of the digital TCG potential. I'm hoping that this alpha being a real alpha doesn't affect people's impressions of the game in a bad way.

Yeah, I think the only thing people are frustrated about is that the beta was supposed to be in September, and now a very alphaish alpha is now released in October. They haven't done a very good job of keeping to their timelines right now.

Yeah I guess that's obvious. I should stop arguing. I'm just bitter that Battletech TCG is dead.

So does Hex really use WoW TCG's hero system? It doesn't seem like it.

It's not an exact parallel but it's closer to Wow's heroes than Magic's planeswalkers.

http://hextcg.gamepedia.com/Champions

 

[Proven]

I missed most of the discussion but there are still a couple things that piss me off to see.

Resources add depth to deck building, which is core to tcgs

Or has been. It's really just shows that they're going for a more traditional and "hardcore" audience.

They can easily expand the resource cards to have game play effects, like in MTG

Resources (in the Magic/Hex style) add ambiguity to the system, not depth. Ambiguity that is solved by mathematical systems, with only a few adjustments ever needed.

Hell, one of the reasons given for Magic keeping its system and being better for it is the very fact that it gives lesser players a chance, and that games that use a more consistent resource system die out because all the hardcore players become way too good at the game.

I've personally never been a fan of "use any card as a resource" systems. It leads to shitty situations where you have make a crappy choice of burning a cool card to play some other card. I put cards in my deck because I want to use them, not because I want to put them face down on a table. Admittedly the lack of mana screw is a big bonus to this kind of system, but there are enough other ways to mitigate that I don't mind it much anymore. No matter how a card game is designed there are going to be games you don't get to play due to randomness, that's just the nature of the beast.

And the land system leads to the huge advantage of the color pie system which is one of the best parts of Magic. You can't do that with generic resources. Instead you usually need to staple outside of the game deckbuilding rules to make it so you can't just make "best 40 cards in the game".dec

The bolded is dumb. You have a higher chance of not playing the cool cards you want to play because of mana screw or flood than because you didn't draw enough of the cards you'd prefer to play as resources.

You also don't need the color pie to insert some type of dividing system among the cards. Yugioh, one of the original poster children for the "best 40 cards in the game" moved away from that quickly and easily due to adding support to all sorts of themed decks.

***

The only good argument I've seen for the Magic/Hex resource system is that they consequentially have a good draft system in the way they have defined drafts. But there are other ways to have a limited format, and I must admit that I'm partial to Sealed over Draft anyhow. Draft is just a way to add another skill on top of a game that already has two fun skills, deck building and battling. And the primary way to get good at that skill ends up being spending money, because the draft picking is linked to the deck building which is linked to the battling, and if you don't train your draft picking with actual draft opponents you're not going win draft tournaments consistently.

 

[ultron87]

The bolded is dumb. You have a higher chance of not playing the cool cards you want to play because of mana screw or flood than because you didn't draw enough of the cards you'd prefer to play as resources.

What I meant was that you never feel bad about playing a land/resource. That's what it is there for. Discarding something because you need to pay for something else isn't a fun choice to make. It also adds a lot of needless complexity to the game because choosing what card to burn can be an incredibly difficult choice to make for a beginning player.

I'm not denying that mana screw/flood is any issue. It is and it sucks to lose games that way.

You also don't need the color pie to insert some type of dividing system among the cards. Yugioh, one of the original poster children for the "best 40 cards in the game" moved away from that quickly and easily due to adding support to all sorts of themed decks.

I've played Yu Gi Oh once in my entire life, but I'm guessing you mean that it only makes sense to play certain cards together because they synergize really well? That's a good way to do it, but I could see it limiting deck construction possibilities since you're automatically limited to various pools of cards that work together.

I like that in Magic (or Hex, presumably) you theoretically can play the best X cards in the format, but then it becomes really hard to make a consistent mana base (unless you're in a format with particularly strong fixing). At the same time you can make a hyper synergistic deck like Elves that plays nothing but forests. And those two decks can compete with each other.

Too many other card games get around the best card syndrome by constraining your deck building with specific faction rules. Even though it probably makes sense to play a faction's cards together since they should synergize I really like having the option of putting whatever I want in there, even if I'm making sacrifices in other parts of my deck.

 

[Mugaaz]

I missed most of the discussion but there are still a couple things that piss me off to see.


Resources (in the Magic/Hex style) add ambiguity to the system, not depth. Ambiguity that is solved by mathematical systems, with only a few adjustments ever needed.

Hell, one of the reasons given for Magic keeping its system and being better for it is the very fact that it gives lesser players a chance, and that games that use a more consistent resource system die out because all the hardcore players become way too good at the game.


The bolded is dumb. You have a higher chance of not playing the cool cards you want to play because of mana screw or flood than because you didn't draw enough of the cards you'd prefer to play as resources.

You also don't need the color pie to insert some type of dividing system among the cards. Yugioh, one of the original poster children for the "best 40 cards in the game" moved away from that quickly and easily due to adding support to all sorts of themed decks.

***

The only good argument I've seen for the Magic/Hex resource system is that they consequentially have a good draft system in the way they have defined drafts. But there are other ways to have a limited format, and I must admit that I'm partial to Sealed over Draft anyhow. Draft is just a way to add another skill on top of a game that already has two fun skills, deck building and battling. And the primary way to get good at that skill ends up being spending money, because the draft picking is linked to the deck building which is linked to the battling, and if you don't train your draft picking with actual draft opponents you're not going win draft tournaments consistently.

The best reasons for Magics land system are the reasons people can't accept as being true:

The luck factor is a big draw and a good thing for the game. It leads to great stories like lightning helix off the top, it lets people have an excuse for losing when the actual reason is they play bad, and lets bad players win enough to keep playing.

 

[havocau]

Streaming now - www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc

 

[blindrocket]

Streaming now - www.twitch.tv/hexedhavoc

You're going to wear out your spacebar.

 

[Shrennin]

The best reasons for Magics land system are the reasons people can't accept as being true:

The luck factor is a big draw and a good thing for the game. It leads to great stories like lightning helix off the top, it lets people have an excuse for losing when the actual reason is they play bad, and lets bad players win enough to keep playing.

I actually don't think elements of luck as a bad thing. Luck leads to the unexpected and the truly skilled moments can even come from besting even the "unlucky" moments. It helps to keep games tense.

Besides, Hex has ways to mitigate a certain amount of luck through the threshold system, mulligans, and deck building. Magic's resource system is still the best type of system for a TCG. That may be opinion, but I feel like Magic's prominence attests to its design.

 

[KuroNeeko]

I missed most of the discussion but there are still a couple things that piss me off to see.


Resources (in the Magic/Hex style) add ambiguity to the system, not depth. Ambiguity that is solved by mathematical systems, with only a few adjustments ever needed.

Hell, one of the reasons given for Magic keeping its system and being better for it is the very fact that it gives lesser players a chance, and that games that use a more consistent resource system die out because all the hardcore players become way too good at the game.


The bolded is dumb. You have a higher chance of not playing the cool cards you want to play because of mana screw or flood than because you didn't draw enough of the cards you'd prefer to play as resources.

You also don't need the color pie to insert some type of dividing system among the cards. Yugioh, one of the original poster children for the "best 40 cards in the game" moved away from that quickly and easily due to adding support to all sorts of themed decks.

***

The only good argument I've seen for the Magic/Hex resource system is that they consequentially have a good draft system in the way they have defined drafts. But there are other ways to have a limited format, and I must admit that I'm partial to Sealed over Draft anyhow. Draft is just a way to add another skill on top of a game that already has two fun skills, deck building and battling. And the primary way to get good at that skill ends up being spending money, because the draft picking is linked to the deck building which is linked to the battling, and if you don't train your draft picking with actual draft opponents you're not going win draft tournaments consistently.

What are your favorite card games? Feel free to choose from both analog and digital!

 

[Shinjica]

I actually don't think elements of luck as a bad thing. Luck leads to the unexpected and the truly skilled moments can even come from besting even the "unlucky" moments. It helps to keep games tense.

Besides, Hex has ways to mitigate a certain amount of luck through the threshold system, mulligans, and deck building. Magic's resource system is still the best type of system for a TCG. That may be opinion, but I feel like Magic's prominence attests to its design.

Threshold can help you in multi color deck. If you make a single color deck and in your hand you've 3 resource and the other, for example 15, are in the bottom of your Deck, you can be the best player in this world but you will lose. No matter what

 

[Shrennin]

Threshold can help you in multi color deck. If you make a single color deck and in your hand you've 3 resource and the other, for example 15, are in the bottom of your Deck, you can be the best player in this world but you will lose. No matter what

Chances of that happening are slim and a game is best 2 out of 3 so that type of bad luck to the best player in the world would result in one loss at best. This is a digital game as well, so a deck is truly randomized.