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[Shinobi]

Yep...Clinton adminstration isn't without their skeletons either. He did some good things, but I wouldn't trust him with a nickel. Bush and his boys just happen to be ten times worse.

I would urge you to read this quote that the original poster excerpted:

"Federal agencies are forthright with broadcasters about the origin of the news segments they distribute. The reports themselves, though, are designed to fit seamlessly into the typical local news broadcast. In most cases, the "reporters" are careful not to state in the segment that they work for the government. Their reports generally avoid overt ideological appeals. Instead, the government's news-making apparatus has produced a quiet drumbeat of broadcasts describing a vigilant and compassionate administration."

You want to blame someone, blame the media for accepting these materials.

Obviously you've never read my posts in the last five years. Nobody's more critical of the media on this board then me. Frankly I've grown bored with using my trademark "fuck the media" line, cause it's pretty much become a cliche. But to set the record straight, there's no excuse for either side here. It's clear that the government has gotten involved in the news business when it's suited them for years, and it's clear that the media has bent over with their pants down for the government when it's suited them. So fuck 'em both.

Liberals and Conservatives will never give a straight answer because they're too concerned about pushing their own agendas instead of reporting actual news.

Agreed 1000%.

 

[peedi]

What "good things" can we credit Clinton with? Gutting welfare? Honestly, I don't think Clinton did anything, save for engineering the demise of liberalism.

 

[Doth Togo]

So the U.S. media is officially controlled by the U.S. government. The question is.....WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

Don't make me imply John Titor.

 

[AssMan]

Funny, after I read your post I immediately dismissed your capacity for independent thought and worthwhile posting ability. Then I added you to my ignore list.

Shows you don't know jack shit about me since I'm bipartisan. You seem to not know what kind of hypocrital morons run the NYTimes.

wouldnt adding him to the ignore list be contradicting the point you were trying to make in your post?

lol. Took the words out of my mouth. :lol

 

[CrawfishPete]

What "good things" can we credit Clinton with? Gutting welfare? Honestly, I don't think Clinton did anything, save for engineering the demise of liberalism.

hmmmm lets see. about 24 million new jobs. balanced budgets. building up the surplus (that republicans wasted), cleaning up the mess in kosovo, welfare reform and dont forget school Newt Gingrich every day of the week.

the only strike on him is some illicit beejers from a fat chick.

 

[Pimpwerx]

What "good things" can we credit Clinton with? Gutting welfare? Honestly, I don't think Clinton did anything, save for engineering the demise of liberalism.

Every now and then, I gotta agree with Futami. This is one of those times. I don't know if he gutted welfare necessarily, but honestly, the Clintons catered to big business just like the current administration. Just that he wasn't a complete ass about it, and the economy wasn't in the toilet at the time. But then, with the economy in the toilet, I doubt he would have pushed for tax cuts and increased defense spending. Clinton > Bush, but that doesn't say much anymore. PEACE.

 

[MC Safety]

The media is certainly in line to take some blame...but exactly why are taxpayer dollars being spent by the government to make news segments in the first place?

I don't know. Maybe the government has a press agency to deal with ... I don't know... the press?

And governments waste money on stupid stuff all the time. It's what governments do.

 

[FightyF]

Shows you don't know jack shit about me since I'm bipartisan. You seem to not know what kind of hypocrital morons run the NYTimes.

You can think that their OPINION pieces are hypocritical...fine. You can thus ignore such pieces.

But how about articles like this, that bring up suprising FACTS?

Perhaps you stopped reading because you are, to some degree, scared of reality?

 

[Error Macro]

I turned on my TV this morning, and it said it was going to be foggy and drizzling tomorrow. Fucking Bush!!

 

[Hitokage]

Haha, so true. People always get mad at Bush for stuff he has no control over. Like the war in Iraq, the deficit, and those tax cuts. Come on dudes, how was he supposed to stop all that stuff? It's nature in action.

Absolutely, and how was he supposed to stop congress from passing spending bill after spending bill!

 

[Error Macro]

Haha, so true. People always get mad at Bush for stuff he has no control over. Like the war in Iraq, the deficit, and those tax cuts. Come on dudes, how was he supposed to stop all that stuff? It's nature in action.

Man, nature fucking rocks. It puts dollars in my pocket, and bombs on the ground. It don't get no better, dudez.

 

[Dilbert]

I don't know. Maybe the government has a press agency to deal with ... I don't know... the press?

And governments waste money on stupid stuff all the time. It's what governments do.

So wait a minute. You're claiming that the job of the White House press agency is to make 30-second segments for the evening news?

 

[MC Safety]

So wait a minute. You're claiming that the job of the White House press agency is to make 30-second segments for the evening news?

I don't know. Is it?

My point was that the government funds lots of stuff that people will scratch their heads over regardless of what department is responsible. I must have seen 8,225 government-made educational films during my school days. Taxpayer monies funded those. And those crazy experiments to attach firebombs to bats to create a weapon against the Japanese in World War II? Taxpayer dollars paid for those.

 

[peedi]

The NYT is a liberal organ? Really? Not that most of you care, but there isn't a single mainstream media outlet that isn't firmly aligned with the right wing operated military industrial complex.

If the NYT is such a bastion of liberal "journalism," tell me, then, why it NEVER called this administration on its mendacious exploitation of 9/11 to justify its push into Iraq?

Spare me. NYT is just another mouthpiece for Israel.

 

[explodet]

Is there such thing as a sixth estate? If not, it's about time for one.

Spare me. NYT is just another mouthpiece for Israel.

... what?

 

[FightyF]

Israel and Forza Motorsport.

 

[whytemyke]

this is news?

I just assumed everyone already knew that 99% of our news we receive over here is bullshit.

but it works. take, for instance, egypt: most americans think egypt is just as 'backwards' and hates 'freedom' as much as Syria, when in fact Egypt is one of the brightest beacons of democracy in the middle east.

never, ever, EVER believe any news you read without confirming the facts with a few other sources... usually BBC or CSM.

 

[peedi]

... what?

Israel commands our policy in the Middle East. The mainstream media's expressed purpose, besides social and political sedation, is to justify Israel's existence. Without the justification of her existence, Israel would have to be held accountable for its pollution of that region. Israel is the only state of terror in the Middle East, yet that truth is never voiced by any organ of the mainstream media. NYT has always come down on the side of Israel, with regards to the ongoing conflict there.

 

[whytemyke]

Israel commands our policy in the Middle East. The mainstream media's expressed purpose, besides social and political sedation, is to justify Israel's existence. Without the justification of her existence, Israel would have to be held accountable for its pollution of that region. Israel is the only state of terror in the Middle East, yet that truth is never voiced by any organ of the mainstream media. NYT has always come down on the side of Israel, with regards to the ongoing conflict there.

Don't be stupid... Israel isn't nearly the saintly country we make it out to be, but to justify the terror that goes on by pointing the blame at Israel is horribly ignorant and shortsighted. Neither side is right, so quit trying to look at things as though it's all black and white.

 

[Socreges]

Serves you right, Cyan. There are three certainties in life: death, taxes, and Futami being a fucking crackpot.

 

[peedi]

Don't be stupid... Israel isn't nearly the saintly country we make it out to be, but to justify the terror that goes on by pointing the blame at Israel is horribly ignorant and shortsighted. Neither side is right, so quit trying to look at things as though it's all black and white.

I don't even know what the word "terror" means, as its applied to the resistance of Israeli and American hostility. You're attempting to draw an equivalency between the unequivocal sponsorship of anti-Muslim liquidation and the just response of an oppressed class. That region was set aflame by the insertion of an illegitimate state. You either acknowledge that truth or continue avoiding the real reason innocents are dying.

 

[whytemyke]

Oh please, don't even start giving me that semantic bullshit. We can go back and forth all day about who is at fault, or about the definition of terror. If you want to use the targeting of civillians as a definition, fine. If you want to use a more macro view of it, and consider it simply a form of war involving all possible targets using unconventional weapons and tactics, that's fine, too. But if you're unwilling to say that violence on both sides has been going on far too long, and that at this point both peoples have blood on their hands, then you have no credibility whatsoever in this argument.

I don't care who you are... both sides target civillians to accomplish their personal goals. One uses a military. One doesn't. Either way, both sides attack the helpless in the name of war. Are you really going to say that one side is right and the other is wrong?

 

[peedi]

Oh please, don't even start giving me that semantic bullshit. We can go back and forth all day about who is at fault, or about the definition of terror. If you want to use the targeting of civillians as a definition, fine. If you want to use a more macro view of it, and consider it simply a form of war involving all possible targets using unconventional weapons and tactics, that's fine, too. But if you're unwilling to say that violence on both sides has been going on far too long, and that at this point both peoples have blood on their hands, then you have no credibility whatsoever in this argument.

I don't care who you are... both sides target civillians to accomplish their personal goals. One uses a military. One doesn't. Either way, both sides attack the helpless in the name of war. Are you really going to say that one side is right and the other is wrong?

I'm not going to condemn those employing violence in their resistance of Israel's US subsidized terror. Your argument doesn't stand on firm ground. The mere existence of Israel is what precipitated the violence that now envelopes that region. Why can't you acknowledge that? Why should I dole out balanced condemnation, when the root of the violence lies squarely at Israel's feet? You're asking me to ignore historical context. I won't.

 

[fse]

Fuck the Government! oh, and why not those who elected this shit head.

 

[whytemyke]

Israel could claim a historical right to the ground dating back through 2500 years of colonial forces constantly seizing and taking the land. We could go back to Roman or even Hellenist rule to say that the land was stolen unjustly from Israel. Furthermore, you cannot wage war for a land in 1967, lose, and then want what was lost given back to you because you still had it to begin with. That's not the way politics works... that's not the way the real world works.

This isn't to say that Israel is right in what they do. Every group of peoples get fucked over and out. Would you stand by the Native Americans today if they started driving truck bombs into metropolitan areas of the country? Or would you rather have them seek a peaceful way, as they did, to gain retribution? Would you rather work for vengeance and constantly live in the past, or would you rather work for the future? As long as both sides continue to murder civillians, nothing will ever change, and they will continue to fight, and unfortunately, Israel to continue to win. This is why they are both guilty.

Now, if you want to continue on with your pretty weak argument that palestinians have a right to murder israelis because the grandparents of the israelis were given that area by someone else, then I need you to also say that the Native Americans have a right to declare war on Canada, US, and Mexico; that the Spanish now have a right to kill Italian civillians and that the catalians in Spain have a right to murder innocent Spaniards; I need you to defend the acts taken by Chechens against the Russian schools back in August; defend Filipinos having a right to murder Americans and Spaniards... the list goes on. You cannot change the past... you can change the future. In this, it is the responsibility of both Israelis and Palestinians to work together, and since each would rather continue to kill each other, than each of them is guilty.

 

[FightyF]

I'm not going to condemn those employing violence in their resistance of Israel's US subsidized terror.

Think of it this way...does violence against innocent people help their cause? Nope!

Your argument doesn't stand on firm ground. The mere existence of Israel is what precipitated the violence that now envelopes that region. Why can't you acknowledge that? Why should I dole out balanced condemnation, when the root of the violence lies squarely at Israel's feet? You're asking me to ignore historical context. I won't.

Does that justify an equally brutal response? Nope.

 

[Ned Flanders]

myke, do yourself a favor and don't get entangled in a debate about Israel with Fufu. He's not interested in entertaining valid alternative viewpoints to his own. You'd have better luck convincing a bear not to shit in the woods than you would softening Futami's position on conflict in the Middle east..

 

[CrawfishPete]

Absolutely, and how was he supposed to stop congress from passing spending bill after spending bill!

go to google and look up what the word "VETO" means. And his party controls both houses of Congress. These debts are the full responsiblity of the GOP.

Deal with it.

 

[sprsk]

go to google and look up what the word "VETO" means. And his party controls both houses of Congress. These debts are the full responsiblity of the GOP.

Deal with it.

i see your sarcasm meter is broken

 

[Willco]

Damn, how'd we go from this to Israel in two pages? It must be the Lord's work! All praise Bush, for he is our savior!

/me goes back to sleep on bed of money

 

[boutrosinit]

I'd recommend anyone on this thread to pick up 'Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journlism'. Absolutely shocking and enlightening stuff.

 

[peedi]

I'd recommend anyone on this thread to pick up 'Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch's War on Journlism'. Absolutely shocking and enlightening stuff.

It was entertaining, but hardly shocking. Focusing on Fox misses the big picture. Their assault on the truth can be seen at every other major outlet.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

Haha, classic Futami shit right here: complete irrationality.

Clintons catered to big business just like the current administration

Why does every semi-intellectual think that whenever the government isn't overtaxing big business that its in their pocket. Big business drives the economies of the world. Get over it. To punish them is like saying, "See you later, economic growth." Europe has yet to recover from 9/11 because they're too busy overtaxing their businesses to really let them grow to net more money to give back to the people. America's growth has really slowed down because of the increased integration of Socialism. Everyone wants $15/hr jobs with platinum class benefits for almost no skills. We're becoming the 'gimme' generation and its biting us in the ass.

While China and India continue to integrate more and more capitalism and they're now poised to be economic giants? Gee, whats the correlation here?

 

[CrawfishPete]

i see your sarcasm meter is broken

got it fixed. thanks.

 

[videogamer]

My point was that the government funds lots of stuff that people will scratch their heads over regardless of what department is responsible.

Does it make it right? Disagree with government funding choices? Make an attempt to change things.

I must have seen 8,225 government-made educational films during my school days. Taxpayer monies funded those.

How often were these movies perhaps designed to help one side in politics?

And those crazy experiments to attach firebombs to bats to create a weapon against the Japanese in World War II? Taxpayer dollars paid for those.

I doubt that they still fund that research. If enough noise and action made, government spending can change.

Why does every semi-intellectual think that whenever the government isn't overtaxing big business that its in their pocket.

When does not catering to big business mean overtaxation? (note, I did not read much of Peedi's posts in this thread)

Big business drives the economies of the world. Get over it. To punish them is like saying, "See you later, economic growth."

Since when did not catering to big business mean punishment?

While China and India continue to integrate more and more capitalism and they're now poised to be economic giants? Gee, whats the correlation here?

There is more to the story than that. Consider India's licence raj and subpar transportation. How far exactly do you think we should go toward capitalism? It's already a long road from here.