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[snapty00]

Yeah, the lefty issue is way overplayed. I don't even think Nintendo designed the DS with that in mind; it just so happened to end up like it did, not because they were trying to cater to left-handed people.

 

[kitchenmotors]

I wonder how many people snapty00 has on the ignore list. Ignorance is bliss! :lol

 

[Mama Smurf]

Smurf:
Except that lefties never seemed to make an issue of using standard controllers with the left stick as the primary. So I don't see why including an analogue stick would have been an issue.

Aaaaand this argument comes up for the 20th time.

It's not the same thing at all. In fact, I've always thought lefties have an advantage when it comes to analogue sticks. I mean really, how much precision does it take to jab a button? Moving an analogue stick on the other hand...

Anyway, the point is the stylus works like a pen. Now people vary wildly in their success when writing with their weaker hand, but for those of us like me who are no good at it at all (and that's a lot of us), it'd be a big issue. Some games less so, it depends what they want me to do. Let's say they wanted me to draw circles round things quickly and drag them to my character. My weaker hand will suck at that, my other will be good. Or let's say Pac-Pix required you to use the D pad too (I don't think it does, but let's say it did). I would be so much worst at that if I had to use my weaker hand. I'd be slower, I'd make mistakes, I'd waste ink...no, Nintendo had no choice, it had to be symmetrical. As it would have to with analogue sticks in there.

 

[kitchenmotors]

Yeah, the lefty issue is way overplayed. I don't even think Nintendo designed the DS with that in mind; it just so happened to end up like it did, not because they were trying to cater to left-handed people.

You can't be fucking serious? You don't think that Nintendo didn't think of that? How dense is that thick coconut of yours?!

If Nintendo is smart enough to impliment the touch screen, I think they put into thought how left handed people would be able to play games on the DS.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I wonder how many people snapty00 has on the ignore list. Ignorance is bliss! :lol

apparently not you if you're still replying to his bait

 

[Sriram]

Smurf:
Except that lefties never seemed to make an issue of using standard controllers with the left stick as the primary. So I don't see why including an analogue stick would have been an issue.

The difference between pressing buttons and using a stylus is huge as the latter requires more precision. However, for games that use the thumb nub (mario, metroid) Im pretty sure that Ill be fine using the default system unlike in games like wario ware.

Yeah, the lefty issue is way overplayed. I don't even think Nintendo designed the DS with that in mind; it just so happened to end up like it did, not because they were trying to cater to left-handed people.

Well, for games that use the stylus and the face buttons, its a great design. Im sure any decent designer wouldnt have overlooked the left hand functionality.

 

[Mama Smurf]

You can't be fucking serious? You don't think that Nintendo didn't think of that? How dense is that thick coconut of yours?!

If Nintendo is smart enough to impliment the touch screen, I think they put into thought how left handed people would be able to play games on the DS.

Indeed. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. I imagine the issue came up almost straight away, but even if it didn't, the first time some lefty at Nintendo got their hands on a prototype, this issue would have been brought to everyone's attention.

 

[Catchpenny]

The GBA launch was ANYTHING but quiet in NY. Lines were around the store. Man, I bought mine at the GS across from the Manhattan Mall, and the line was actually out the door.

Sorry, let me rephrase: the GBA hype was quiet at launch. I don't doubt there were long lines at some stores, though in my case I was able to walk into a virtually empty TRU that morning and grab one without a preorder. But no doubt, the system sold well from the beginning.

 

[snapty00]

The difference between pressing buttons and using a stylus is huge as the latter requires more precision. However, for games that use the thumb nub (mario, metroid) Im pretty sure that Ill be fine using the default system unlike in games like wario ware.



Well, for games that use the stylus and the face buttons, its a great design. Im sure any decent designer wouldnt have overlooked the left hand functionality.

I guess it worked out okay for the few lefties out there (and really, I don't think most lefties care, anyway), but I don't think it was really intentional. I think they chose not to put in an analog stick because it was cheaper not to do so, not because of the miniscule lefty issue.

Having said that, if someone asks Nintendo about it, I'm sure they'll make it out like a complete victory for lefties worldwide!

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I guess it worked out okay for the few lefties out there (and really, I don't think most lefties care, anyway), but I don't think it was really intentional. I think they chose not to put in an analog stick because it was cheaper not to do so, not because of the miniscule lefty issue.

Having said that, if someone asks Nintendo about it, I'm sure they'll make it out like a complete victory for lefties worldwide!

really.. will say this.

a) isn't this thread about advertising or lack of.

b) if you have a problem with the lefty issue (etc etc)... why don't you write a big long hate letters to all the big 3 (MS, Nintendo, Sony) cause non of their controllers are really for lefties. But you know what.. my housemate is leftie and he's a gamer and I've never heard him complain. They adapt

c) "complete victory... " Have you heard of spin? Everybody does it. EVERYBODY.

 

[Sriram]

Well, 4% of the entire population is left handed but for males only the number is closer to 10% so its not really that small of a number of people.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Of course it was intentional! I mean honest to fucking god, wake up!

There's no need to even connect the analogue issue to it if you're just doubting Nintendo made the system symmetrical on purpose....just face it, they did. It's so fucking obvious. Jesus.

Oh and I think plenty of lefties would be fucking pissed off if they were forced to use the stylus with their right hand in some games. I would be if the situation was reversed.

 

[snapty00]

b) if you have a problem with the lefty issue (etc etc)... why don't you write a big long hate letters to all the big 3 (MS, Nintendo, Sony) cause non of their controllers are really for lefties. But you know what.. my housemate is leftie and he's a gamer and I've never heard him complain. They adapt

:lol This is what happens when you get into a conversation you don't know anything about.

Go talk to Mama Smurf.

Of course it was intentional! I mean honest to fucking god, wake up!

There's no need to even connect the analogue issue to it if you're just doubting Nintendo made the system symmetrical on purpose....just face it, they did. It's so fucking obvious. Jesus..

:lol I guess Nintendo made the Super NES controller for left-handed people too, right? Since it's IDENTICAL to the DS.

But then with the Nintendo 64 controller, it wasn't symmetrical. What happened?

I guess Nintendo only caters to lefties sometime, right?

 

[sprsk]

im left handed and i could play metroid prime hunters just fine.

 

[Mama Smurf]

:lol I guess Nintendo made the Super NES controller for left-handed people too, right? Since it's IDENTICAL to the DS.

But then with the Nintendo 64 controller, it wasn't symmetrical. What happened?

I guess Nintendo only caters to lefties sometime, right?

No, they didn't. Did the SNES have a stylus? Well? Oh look...it didn't!

If you're going to try and make points, how about you read other posts and actually consider the facts?

Metroid Prime isn't such a bad one. I haven't tried it yet, but I can certainly imagine playing it with my left hand fine. Which isn't something that can be said for more precision things.

 

[Sriram]

non of their controllers are really for lefties. But you know what.. my housemate is leftie and he's a gamer and I've never heard him complain. They adapt

Well actually wouldnt it be the other way round, us lefties have it easier with the movement being controlled by the left hand, especially when it comes to analogue controls. But really with things you control with your thumbs it doesnt matter too much seeing as most people can comfortably use dual analogue control in games.

Also remember the most recent adaption in humans is our increased ability to use our thumbs (texting on phones, game controllers, etc. Ive even seen people point with their thumbs and ring doorbells with them), apparently. So this left handed issue only really occurs when control requires movement from any part of the hand apart from the thumb.

 

[snapty00]

No, they didn't. Did the SNES have a stylus? Well? Oh look...it didn't!

The point is that, if anything, they were trying to get the amount of buttons up to standards...that's it. For example, if Nintendo wanted just two face buttons, a small vocal of lefties wasn't going to stop that.

Most lefties don't care. They adapt.

 

[Sriram]

You are wrong about lefties adapting to using a stylus, trust me. Truth of this matter is in the fact that the four face buttons are quite small so that they closer resemble the d-pad.

 

[snapty00]

If you had to write legibly with the stylus, that'd be one thing. Simply using it for a game, though, is an almost entirely different matter. There might be a slightly higher learning curve for a lefty (and even that's debateable), but that's about it.

 

[Mama Smurf]

The point is that, if anything, they were trying to get the amount of buttons up to standards...that's it. For example, if Nintendo wanted just two face buttons, a small vocal of lefties wasn't going to stop that.

I'm sure both the idea of getting 4 face buttons and also the symmetry were equally appealing to Nintendo. But to say it's just a happy coincidence is absolutely ridiculous. Like I say, how could the problem NOT come up? I can't think of a situation where it wouldn't (alright, I can. Nintendo only employees right handed people. Seem likely?).

Most lefties don't care. They adapt.

Look, I've been playing football (soccer) all my life. About...5 years ago, I decided it would be a great advantage to me to learn how to play with my left foot too. So I did, whenever a match came round or I trained, wherever possible I'd use my left foot. I drove my team mates mad, I missed clear opportunities to score because I attempted to shoot with my left foot instead of my right. Over time though, I got better. Maybe...3 years after I started trying, my left foot was better than a lot of people's right. However, I will never, ever be able to strike the ball with my left foot as hard or as accurately as I can with my right.

That's what using the stylus with your wrong hand is like. Using an analogue stick with your wrong hand (and as had been pointed out multiple times, that's probably right handed people) is like using a knife and fork backwards. Initially uncomfortable as you're not used to it, but takes no time to adapt.

They're very different degrees of adaptation.

 

[Mama Smurf]

If you had to write legibly with the stylus, that'd be one thing. Simply using it for a game, though, is an almost entirely different matter. There might be a slightly higher learning curve for a lefty (and even that's debateable), but that's about it.

I don't think you understand how precise some of these games require you to be.

 

[Seth C]

PSP has no compelling new software that makes it worth a purchase.
The DS does.

And DeadStar's opinion is in the minority.

Neither of them have compelling new software, but at least the PSP has compelling functionality.

 

[snapty00]

I don't think you understand how precise some of these games require you to be.

Even in Wario Ware, as a right-handed person, I'm about 99% sure I could do the mini-games just as easily with my left hand as I could my right hand. It might take a few minutes to adjust, but that's it.

Writing and playing a game are just different, sorry.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Even in Wario Ware, as a right-handed person, I'm about 99% sure I could do the mini-games just as easily with my left hand as I could my right hand. It might take a few minutes to adjust, but that's it.

Writing and playing a game are just different, sorry.

Aaarghh! Ok, maybe the problem here is you're just much better than I am with my weaker hand. I just drew ten dots on a piece of paper twice, and made myself circle them with both hands as quickly as I could (and the circle had to be complete).

I reckon my right hand was about twice as fast as my left. Not only that, but the circles are pretty concise and are all complete. my left hand on the...other...hand (sorry) was slow, one of the circles isn't even a circle and almost missed the dot and there's a few much aren't complete. Now if you do the same thing (if you can be bothered), maybe we'll see that you simply have better control with your weaker hand than I do.

Imagine a platforming game. You use the D pad to move, the L button to jump (or the opposite if you're right handed). Pretty standard so far, but now you have to use your weaker hand to circle the objects that are falling to hurt your character while you make your way through the level. You have to draw a complete circle around them, AND they're moving at the same time, so you gotta be quick. Also, there's enemies coming towards you, and they're jumping in ways which will make it really hard to jump on them, but that's ok, you can take away their jumping ability for 5 seconds if you touch them with the stylus (this is sort of based on Yoshi's Touch & Go BTW if any of this seems familar). Now maybe you're some super gamer who could do that with your left hand, but for me, that sounds nigh on impossible and would be a gross advantage to those who happened to be born correctly handed.

 

[Sriram]

Smurf: snapty is pretty obviously baiting ou and starting your posts with 'argghgh' is just spurring him on. We gone in circles on this issue for long enough.

Maybe he's ambidextrous so he doesnt understand about this accuracy thing.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I have no job. If anything he's just getting me through the day.

 

[Spiritreaver]

Neither of them have compelling new software, but at least the PSP has compelling functionality.

They both do actually, and anyone who doesn't see that needs to take off the goggles.

 

[Mejilan]

Well, I wasn't debating about whether or not the DS should be or is comfortably designed for lefties. I think that it's great that is in, in fact. I'm just not sure how the inclusion of an analogue stick would all of a sudden make it NOT ok for lefties.

As for using a stylus, for things like Picto Chat and possibly Pac-Pix, using it on the wrong hand would be difficult to impossible. I'm righty and by no means ambidextrous, so I can't write for SHIT using my left hand.

But as a test, I grabbed a pen and paper, and starting doing stylus-like motions with the pen, on the paper, using Wario Ware DS as examples. You know, circles, slashes and lines in all directions, and other basis stylus movements. Even with my left hand, it wasn't so bad. So I don't think general stylus use with a non preferred hand is a big deal. BUT, it's great that lefties won't have to worry about that at all.

I just don't see how including an analogue stick on the DS itself would all of a sudden cause the unit to fail to accomodate lefties.

 

[xsarien]

Neither of them have compelling new software, but at least the PSP has compelling functionality.

Yes, I too can't wait to buy movies on UMD so I can finally get rid of that nice, big TV that's been taking up so much space around here.

 

[lexi]

Yes, I too can't wait to buy movies on UMD so I can finally get rid of that nice, big TV that's been taking up so much space around here.

By functionality he meant the PSP will automatically put your TV and DVD collection for sale on eBay.

 

[Lord Error]

You know when I said Computer Company and Home Technology company.....I was referring to Microsoft and Sony...but thanks for playing.

My Pocket PC (licensed by Microsoft) where you can play many games using touch screen - says hi! Sony's own numerious Palm-OS handhelds with dozens of touchscreen based games available - say hi too.

 

[Beezy]

The point is that, if anything, they were trying to get the amount of buttons up to standards...that's it. For example, if Nintendo wanted just two face buttons, a small vocal of lefties wasn't going to stop that.

Most lefties don't care. They adapt.

Do you really think that we can adapt to using a fucking pen/stylus with our right hands? We're called LEFTIES for a reason. It is true that we usually do adapt but not when it comes to something like that. If DS didn't have the X and Y buttons, I wouldn't even think about getting it...

 

[Gahiggidy]

It comes out November 21st.

 

[duderon]

Gahiggidy saves the day!

 

[snapty00]

Do you really think that we can adapt to using a fucking pen/stylus with our right hands? We're called LEFTIES for a reason. It is true that we usually do adapt but not when it comes to something like that. If DS didn't have the X and Y buttons, I wouldn't even think about getting it...

Yeah yeah, sure you wouldn't.

 

[Beezy]

Yeah yeah, sure you wouldn't.

Do you really think I would buy something I can't use? That's like, I don't know, a blind man with prescription glasses.

 

[snapty00]

Do you really think I would buy something I can't use? That's like, I don't know, a blind man with prescription glasses.

OR LIKE A RETARDED MAN USING A BOAT

 

[nfreakct]

What happened to all the talk about game stores selling the DS on an earlier date (i.e. as soon as they got them)?

 

[Lord Error]

I am right handed and I can use the stylys on my PDA just fine for any gaming purpose. The only problem would be writing text for example, but for that you don't need extra button presses anyways, so you can use your dominant hand in that case. I'd imagine, the thumbstrap thing would make it even easier as I'm controlling the analog sticks with left hand all the time anyways.

 

[xsarien]

Even in Wario Ware, as a right-handed person, I'm about 99% sure I could do the mini-games just as easily with my left hand as I could my right hand. It might take a few minutes to adjust, but that's it.

Writing and playing a game are just different, sorry.

Spoken, truly, like someone who's never had to adapt to anything. I'm lucky enough to be fairly ambidextrous - I can adapt pretty damned quickly (unfortunately, the one thing I can't seem to master is writing.) The problem is that most people can't, and while there *is* a difference between using, say, a mouse and a pen, the latter still requires a finer amount of precision and dexterity, ergo, so does a stylus. ESPECIALLY in a game where fast reflexes are also required.

I can understand Nintendo's logic behind leaning towards right-handed people, I probably would too if there were dollars and design time on the line. But to be completely dismissive of it is a tad naive. There are left-handed people out there who WILL have problems with DS games without some kind of dual control. Until I got used to it, playing Hunters in EB was pretty damned awkward. (But I hope the demo represents an early control scheme, because it blows on a more fundamental level that I'll maybe expand on later.)

 

[PkunkFury]

There are left-handed people out there who WILL have problems with DS games without some kind of dual control.

I thought there where options for left handed control in the Metroid demo kiosks? maybe not?

 

[Robert-GCA]

Nintendo stated that their major marketing efforts for the DS will start at and after launch. Their running "regular" commercials on tv starting on the 18th, and they are going to have theater ads in over 5000 theaters as well. Like some have said in this thread already, the DS is selling amazingly on what word and marketing there is out there already. There will be more in he next week.

 

[NLB2]

I played one today, it was horrific let me assure you. The stylus was horribly impractical, never even glanced at the second screen.... Graphics were not as sinful as I thought, but still well below par compared to a PSP.

Ill wait for a price drop.

Most hillarious post of all time. Thank you DeadStar

 

[Celicar]

I actually just preordered a DS. I forgot about doing that, but to be absolutely sure I get one, I preordered at EB, Gamestop, and Best Buy. If all of my preorders ship, I might sell two of them on ebay. I think the DS is going to be THE Christmas toy this year.

 

[StrikerObi]

I actually just preordered a DS. I forgot about doing that, but to be absolutely sure I get one, I preordered at EB, Gamestop, and Best Buy. If all of my preorders ship, I might sell two of them on ebay. I think the DS is going to be THE Christmas toy this year.

It certainly stands a good chance. I'm not going to risk it though.

 

[etiolate]

I haven't seen a DS or a DS ad on TV. I don't know where the advertising money went.

 

[mrklaw]

It's not the same thing at all. In fact, I've always thought lefties have an advantage when it comes to analogue sticks. I mean really, how much precision does it take to jab a button? Moving an analogue stick on the other hand...

I don't see how this is an advantage for left handed gamers. Most controllers have the directional inputs on the left - digital or analogue. Most gamers are right handed. Therefore these controllers have been mostly designed for right handed gamers.

There must have been some research showing that directional pad on the left is best for right handed gamers. Its likely because its more important to have action buttons on the right, where you have to press with fast reactions, press buttons in different places without any reference point. Stuff that your dominant hand is good at.

Direction on the other hand requires *less* hand control. You are resting on the stick and just have to push in the direction you want to go. No fast reactions needed (not compared to button presses).

So the current setup is very much right handed. I would guess that left-handed people adapt quickly, but then they are required to by society in lots of other areas, so they are used to it.

The only way to know which is better is to release a left handed controller, with dpad on the right and buttons on the left - and test with left-handed people who've never used a 'normal' controller before.

 

[soundwave05]

Nintendo has been advertising DS mostly on Spike TV, ESPN, and MTV.

I've seen the commercials, but really, this thing is gonna sell out fast. There was a big crowd around the kiosks at my EB, another store I walked into had a huge DS stand for pre-orders.

Plus the Christmas shopping season is ramping up, which means the press are going to be looking for this holiday's "hot" new gadgets and gizmos, and DS is going to get a lot of free press.

It's already been a front page story on Yahoo.com this month and it hasn't even launched yet.

 

[xsarien]

I thought there where options for left handed control in the Metroid demo kiosks? maybe not?

To be honest, I didn't really bother to check as there was a line to try the DS. Regardless of left-handed or right-handed control, the game is still a little awkward.

 

[Synbios459]

I heard a funnt conversation while looking at games at Wal-Mart today:

*Kid playing DS, mom walks over*
Mom: Is that the new GameBoy?
Kid: It's the DS!
Mom: So it's a palm pilot/gameboy/cell phone?
Kid: Not really.
Mom: *sarcastically* can it take over the world?
Kid: *getting irritated* No!
Mom: Well I don't want to get it if it can't take over the world!