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[Christoff Yurievich]

That's so much worse than the drek that even the guys here come up with. I don't know how you're trying to help your cause by posting that kind of article. It's like copy pasting from Harry's site.

I see what you did there. :lol

(of course, if it was unintentional, my apologies)

 

[OokieSpookie]

http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/08/ending-hdtv-dvd-war.html

Rofl and I thought the last quote post was the lowest you can go.
Hey ME, I hear Bob's chickenshackandhighdefmovies.com has an article from an analyst that is sure that HD will win by halloween, you should run read it and post it here.

 

[The Main Event]

Rofl and I thought the last quote post was the lowest you can go.
Hey ME, I hear Bob's chickenshackandhighdefmovies.com has an article from an analyst that is sure that HD will win by halloween, you should run read it and post it here.

The website doesn't work.

 

[YYZ]

are the paramount movies currently in blu-ray going to be discontinued until the deal is over or are they unaffected and continue to be pressed?

 

[rc213]

are the paramount movies currently in blu-ray going to be discontinued until the deal is over or are they unaffected and continue to be pressed?

Already been discontinued, Get em while you can.

 

[SRG01]

http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/08/ending-hdtv-dvd-war.html

A ten year old can probably think of better ideas.

 

[YYZ]

Already been discontinued, Get em while you can.

shit, gotta get that mission impossible pack. I knew I should've bought that today.

 

[VictimOfGrief]

So has it even been discussed if any of the major Blu-Ray supporters are turned to HD if Sony could have an uphill battle on their hands?

 

[Chemo]

1 "c" user down, two to go.

Nice, and after I said I liked you, too. It's not my fault you got banned -- note the lack of red "Chemo" to the left of my post -- and it's not like I've ever personally attacked you or anything. We disagree about a format, nothing more and nothing less. If you want to ignore list me, though, that's totally up to you.

 

[Stinkles]

I rarely read this thread because I find it ludicrous that people will be so passionate about picking sides in what's effectively a meaningless struggle between two identical technologies, but christ guys. Back off a little.

Think about what the hell it is you're so pent-up about.

I have both formats and I am happy with both and I am quite aware that eventually they will both go the way of the dinosaur. That's a fact. Embrace it and enjoy what you have. Laserdisc fans did it. Minidisc fans did it. Firefly fans did it.


Buy movies, not some mental misplaced loyalty to a lawyer-defined technology standard.

 

[cvxfreak]

http://www.dvdtown.com/messageboard/topic/4667/6/0



Haha?

Toe-Sha-Baaaaaaaaaaaaa? :lol

 

[Chemo]

Buy movies, not some mental misplaced loyalty to a lawyer-defined technology standard.

Yeah, this whole thing is just fucked up. This thread disgusts me... this isn't the kind of thing I have ever participated in before.

I think I'm done with this thread for a while, guys. I'm sure several of you are going to be celebrating and "good riddance"ing and whatever. This shit is just pathetic.

 

[AlteredBeast]

You know what, you are right, this thread is seriously sucking.

We need good news on one side or the other to spark up at least some sort of semi-coherent conversation again.

EDIT - Maybe we could discuss how the next couple weeks of relatively good HD-DVD releases might, at least temporarily, even the field up a bit?

 

[VALIS]

I rarely read this thread because I find it ludicrous that people will be so passionate about picking sides in what's effectively a meaningless struggle between two identical technologies, but christ guys. Back off a little.

Think about what the hell it is you're so pent-up about.

I have both formats and I am happy with both and I am quite aware that eventually they will both go the way of the dinosaur. That's a fact. Embrace it and enjoy what you have. Laserdisc fans did it. Minidisc fans did it. Firefly fans did it.


Buy movies, not some mental misplaced loyalty to a lawyer-defined technology standard.

I've said before that this is the most pathetic thread on the entire internet that I'm aware of. The rationalizations and justifications people come up with to not watch movies is mindblowing.

Around '99-'00 I was pretty resistant to DVDs because I had a nice library of VHS tapes. What would happen to my poor VHS tapes if these DVDs take over? They now all sit in a New Jersey landfill somewhere (except the ones that are rare or don't have a DVD version yet) and I couldn't care less.

It was pretty obvious from the time the players in this "war" lined up that it was going to take a long time. It's still going to take a long time. Personally I think the possibility that both formats survive for 5-10 years is every bit as likely as there being one clear winner. While not of the same magnitude, people talked about how divisive the DVD-R and DVD+R battle would be. Yet that battle is still going on and it doesn't matter a whit to consumers. You don't think when licensing fees come down in 5 years that dual BR/HD-DVD players and drives won't be common and cheap as dirt? Then think harder.

Besides, we're talking niche Home Theater for crying out loud, not health care for the poor. If you already own one of these players, you probably have money for both. Go out and buy a dual format player or a 360 and PS3 and enjoy the movies instead of arguing on the internet and living and dying with news of a battle between megahuge corporations. You'll be a happier person for it, and less people on the internet will want to bash a chair over your head.

 

[Raistlin]

Buy movies, not some mental misplaced loyalty to a lawyer-defined technology standard.

Its possible it may not be that easy.

 

[mrklaw]

I rarely read this thread because I find it ludicrous that people will be so passionate about picking sides in what's effectively a meaningless struggle between two identical technologies, but christ guys. Back off a little.

Think about what the hell it is you're so pent-up about.

I have both formats and I am happy with both and I am quite aware that eventually they will both go the way of the dinosaur. That's a fact. Embrace it and enjoy what you have. Laserdisc fans did it. Minidisc fans did it. Firefly fans did it.


Buy movies, not some mental misplaced loyalty to a lawyer-defined technology standard.

red or blu fanboys aside, many of the more level-headed posters in this thread *are* in it for the movies, but they don't want to fork out for two machines, or maybe don't have space/connectivity for two machines. Plus some of us consider the continued dual format approach damaging to the speedy uptake of HD on disc, which means we won't get as many *movies* as we'd like

 

[MaX_PL]

anyone know where i can get Hot Fuzz cheap? i dont wanna spend 28 bucks for it, but for around 20 i'd definitely buy it.

 

[Oni Jazar]

http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/08/ending-hdtv-dvd-war.html

Not only is there a cost issue (which is very significant) but there is also a reliability issue which seems to a problem on a lot of combos. I don't think these studios will want to have replacements for millions of HD DVD/DVD combos.

 

[VanMardigan]

Not only is there a cost issue (which is very significant) but there is also a reliability issue which seems to a problem on a lot of combos. I don't think these studios will want to have replacements for millions of HD DVD/DVD combos.

What's the reliability issue? I own a lot of combos, but I've never read anything about widespread reliability issues. Is this some isolated stuff that you're trying to blow out of proportion, or is there really a problem with combo discs?

And chemo, I don't mind debating with you, crayon, or captive, we're all part of the "core" group of posters here. The problem is that I tend to get into more heated debates with you guys, then the pro br mod comes in and picks me out. I've been banned twice now and it sucks. This post by you (following my paramount post) was a big reason why I was banned. For a mod who's barely here, it's enough to single me out for a ban. I want to stick around, so I have to avoid you guys. But you said you're not going to be around as much now, so whatever. Maybe that's a good thing for me as well.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Ah, Stinkles misses the point again.

 

[VanMardigan]

Yeah, I must say I'm getting pretty tired of the folks coming in here and calling us pathetic for debating HD discs. I'm trying to figure out what they debate about on frickin GAF of all places that gives them the high ground to make those claims.

Multiple formats and exclusive studio content is a valid discussion point, as is the future of HD discs in general, the need for unification, and the effects that two incompatible formats have on the mainstream adoption of either formats.

These are just as valid (or not valid depending on your POV) as arguing about game consoles, virginity, the iphone, random youtube videos, Paris Hilton's jail time, or whatever the hell else pops up on these forums.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Not to mention the large contingent of us not attached to format so much as any one format.

 

[captive]

I rarely read this thread because I find it ludicrous that people will be so passionate about picking sides in what's effectively a meaningless struggle between two identical technologies, but christ guys. Back off a little.

Think about what the hell it is you're so pent-up about.

I have both formats and I am happy with both and I am quite aware that eventually they will both go the way of the dinosaur. That's a fact. Embrace it and enjoy what you have. Laserdisc fans did it. Minidisc fans did it. Firefly fans did it.


Buy movies, not some mental misplaced loyalty to a lawyer-defined technology standard.

Actually before earlier this week when every goddamn troll that never watched a hi def movie started posting in this thread, this thread was a nice place where a select few of us talked about movies, laughed at fud posted by the main event, and shared deals and opinions on movies. With the occaisional ill informed poster to come in and tell us that DVD >>> high def movies FTMFW etc.

 

[Oni Jazar]

What's the reliability issue? I own a lot of combos, but I've never read anything about widespread reliability issues. Is this some isolated stuff that you're trying to blow out of proportion, or is there really a problem with combo discs?

I remember when Children of Men came out that a lot of people had issues with their combo discs. Universal issued a replacement plan. Here is some info I found that discusses the issue:

http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=565

Some Universal Studios Home Entertainment's 'Children of Men' and 'The Good Shepherd' Combo Format HD DVD releases have suffered from playback issues on Toshiba's HD DVD players and the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on, which we can personally attest to here at TMR. Universal has been mum on the issue thus far, leaving consumers affected by the issues to try to convince the retailer they purchased it from for an exchange. And in some cases, an exchange did little to help the problem.

Universal has formally issued a statement regarding the playback issues acknowledging it is under investigation. Better yet, they're willing to replace defective discs free of charge. The statement reads as follows, "Universal is currently investigating reports that Children of Men, The Good Shepherd, and select other discs not playing properly in some HD DVD players. While we believe this is limited to a small number of HD DVD discs, Universal is offering a replacement service for any customers who are experiencing this problem. We are still investigating the cause and will provide further updates as we get them. Any customer problems should be directed to USHE.ConsumerRelations@worldmarkinc.com."

Be sure to drop us a line with your experience should you contact Universal for a 'Children of Men' or 'The Good Shepherd' replacement disc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=841944

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=838130

 

[TAJ]

red or blu fanboys aside, many of the more level-headed posters in this thread *are* in it for the movies, but they don't want to fork out for two machines, or maybe don't have space/connectivity for two machines. Plus some of us consider the continued dual format approach damaging to the speedy uptake of HD on disc, which means we won't get as many *movies* as we'd like

We're getting movies FASTER than we would have with one format. Until now, Universal was really the one studio keeping HDDVD alive, and they've released a ton of titles. I have 46 movies so far from them alone.
And do you really think it's a coincidence that Fox, after a long silence, announced a bunch of titles for Bluray almost immediately after the Paramount/Dreamworks Animation announcement?

 

[Stinkles]

Ah, Stinkles misses the point again.

No I get the point. But the point is pathetic.

There are plenty of level headed people in here discussing an ongoing format war cooly and logically. Good for them.

I wasn't talking to them. I was talking the the frothing corporate sycophants.

 

[The Main Event]

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6471724

AUG. 24 | MUCH HAS BEEN made in the press, not to mention the blogosphere, of reports that the decision by Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation to drop their dual-format posture in the high-def wars and support HD DVD exclusively were greased by cash payments and “promotional considerations” from HD DVD’s hardware backers.

According to the New York Times, the two studios will together receive $150 million in “financial incentives” to make the switch. The implication was that, but for the incentives, Paramount would not done what it did.

I doubt it. While I have no trouble believing that promotional considerations were involved, as an explanation for such a significant step at this stage, it doesn’t add up.

For one thing, there are always “considerations” involved in this business. It’s standard operating procedure. If that’s all there were to it, Paramount and DreamWorks could have had that deal months ago.

For another, both sides in the high-def format battle have been offering financial incentives to studios and retailers since the war began. For Blu-ray supporters to be aghast that such a thing would happen now smacks of Claude Raines in Casablanca: “I’m shocked! Shocked to discover that gambling is going on here!”

But it was effective in distracting the industry and the press, at least temporarily, from any deeper probing into why Paramount and DreamWorks might have made the move.

It’s not as if the move is without risk to Paramount, after all. By going with one format, Paramount is forcing consumers to make a technology choice in order to be able to watch the studios’ movies in high-def. There’s a legitimate question as to whether it’s appropriate for a studio to force that choice on its customers (although, of course, Paramount and DreamWorks are hardly alone in taking that position).

Going with only one format also leaves money on the table, at least in the short term, as Warner Home Video’s continued domination of the high-def sales charts makes clear. That’s not the sort of thing a studio would do lightly, even if someone else were offering “incentives.”

WHY TAKE those risks, if not for the incentives?

“Our real focus is on how do we jump start this [high-def] thing?” Paramount Home Entertainment president Kelley Avery said. “This is still a very small market, and we need to start moving some movies and some players.”

After a year of publishing in both formats, Paramount has as good an understanding of the relative strengths and weaknesses of each format as any studio. And from that experience, Avery said, Paramount concluded that cost is more important than capacity or any of Blu-ray’s other purported advantages.

“We need to get consumers to step up to high-def, and with HD DVD players dropping under $300, we think this fourth quarter presents an opportunity to do that,” she said. “Ultimately, we don't want this to become a niche business.”

According to Paramount chief technology officer Alan Bell, a year of publishing in both formats has also taught the studio about the relative costs of the two formats to the content owner.

“With [HD DVD’s] HDi, you can do a lot of things with a couple of lines of code. But when you’re working with [Blu-ray’s] BD-Java, a simple menu command can mean hundreds of lines of code,” he said. “It’s much more complicated to work with.”

He also stressed the consistency and stability of HD DVD’s technical specifications.

“You don’t have different profiles or a lot of optional features as you do with Blu-ray,” he said. “It’s just a very straightforward spec. We found that we were doing all of our development work on HD DVD and then trying to port it over to Blu-ray, where you weren’t sure if every feature was going to work on every player, so you had to test it against all the different players. All of that goes into the cost delta for the studio.”

If all that Avery and Bell are saying is true, of course, it was true six months ago as well, and they didn’t say anything then. But it’s still not a pretty story for Blu-ray.

No wonder the format’s supporters would rather talk about the incentives.

 

[Days like these...]

Well since the news has dried up again what is going on with Sony's marketing? At the beginning of the year the put out a George Dubya 'mission accomplished' type press release and thats about all they've done or at least all I''ve seen (mind you I'm not complaining). The only other marketing I've seen has been from Disney and their magical blu bus tour with that goofy looking set up there dragging around from mall to mall.

 

[StoOgE]

children of men did have some pressing problems with certain copies of the disk. It was fairly widespread, but it was limited to that disk...

there was a compounding problem that required a firmware update to get the movie to work too with certain players.

 

[Stinkles]

children of men did have some pressing problems with certain copies of the disk. It was fairly widespread, but it was limited to that disk...

there was a compounding problem that required a firmware update to get the movie to work too with certain players.

I also find that I have to do more returns on both formats than DVD. Obviously density of information makes that more likely - four returns out of about 45 for "bad" discs versus zero for more than 100 DVDs.

 

[thaivo]

Pro Sony/Pro BR admin. Stuff was getting heated (not really), and I was the HD DVD guy. This is the post that got me banned. Just look at what happened to mana with the tag and look at the tag thaivo has.

But anyway, it doesn't really matter who paid, except that the sour grape posters were pushing MS as the payer to push their "MS is out to sabotage HD disc" agenda. I'm actually surprised at how candid amir was, and agreed with him when he pointed out that the BR Insiders refused to answer questions about the incentives that are keeping Fox and Disney exclusive.

Hey Van welcome back.

Well, one has to kind of expect a pro-BD bent for this thread. Especially considering the original thread title. The progression to the present joke title is telling though of how the format war is going though

To be honest, I'm surprised I haven't been banned yet either. :lol

I'm in total agreement with you, but I can understand the reasoning for why BD supporters "need" to believe that the only reason Paramount turned exclusive was a pay off. Since if the decision was not primarily based on a pay off, or perhaps not contingent on the pay off at all, it would send shivers down the spine of anyone completely entrenched in BD. The same can be said of the Blockbuster deal as it relates to HD DVD supporters.

 

[thaivo]

Well since the news has dried up again what is going on with Sony's marketing? At the beginning of the year the put out a George Dubya 'mission accomplished' type press release and thats about all they've done or at least all I''ve seen (mind you I'm not complaining). The only other marketing I've seen has been from Disney and their magical blu bus tour with that goofy looking set up there dragging around from mall to mall.

Yea. I think the news will come streaming in on 09/05/07, judgment day for HDM..

 

[VanMardigan]

children of men did have some pressing problems with certain copies of the disk. It was fairly widespread, but it was limited to that disk...

there was a compounding problem that required a firmware update to get the movie to work too with certain players.

You know, I do remember that. I"m not sure that we can extend that into a wholesale questioning of the reliability of combo discs in general, though. 300 has been the biggest test so far, and I haven't read reports of problems relating to the combo format its on.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

You know, I do remember that. I"m not sure that we can extend that into a wholesale questioning of the reliability of combo discs in general, though. 300 has been the biggest test so far, and I haven't read reports of problems relating to the combo format its on.

See also-- disc rot on two BD titles.

 

[Tabris]

My issue with the whole buying BD/HD movies right now due to there no longer being an obvious winner (I thought BD had it) is all about future thinking.

Say I buy a bunch of HD and BD movies, then in 3 years it's been decided who was the winner and it's BD. Well say the XBox 720 uses BD or uses something different than HD. I would need to keep my 360 w/ HD add-on just to play those seperate movies even though the XBox 720 may be BC.

So no thanks, I'm going to wait until a clear winner occurs again.

 

[Stinkles]

My issue with the whole buying BD/HD movies right now due to there no longer being an obvious winner (I thought BD had it) is all about future thinking.

Say I buy a bunch of HD and BD movies, then in 3 years it's been decided who was the winner and it's BD. Well say the XBox 720 uses BD or uses something different than HD. I would need to keep my 360 w/ HD add-on just to play those seperate movies even though the XBox 720 may be BC.

So no thanks, I'm going to wait until a clear winner occurs again.

In theory, if one format "wins" by then, combo players would be the norm and cheap. By the time this thing is done, $150 Chinese players will be widely available.

 

[Stinkles]

Yea. I think the news will come streaming in on 09/05/07, judgment day for HDM..

? What happens then?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

In theory, if one format "wins" by then, combo players would be the norm and cheap. By the time this thing is done, $150 Chinese players will be widely available.

Combo players are not guaranteed. It's not like all modern DVD players support HD audio formats or VCD, although they could.

Especially considering some of the things that each format require mandated by the format, like an ethernet port. No cheap manufacturer is going to include an ethernet port for an obsolete format (of HD-DVD ends up dead). Likewise, the software requirements of both formats is pretty big.

It could happen, but it's not a sure thing. Not even close.

 

[thaivo]

It's all speculation, but some are saying that there will be announcements at Cedia (www.cedia.net).

Also of interest is the Google statistics for HD-DVD and BD

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Blu-ray%2C+HD%20DVD

for some reason HD DVD wins on every category. Does this mean HD DVD supporters, or potential customers just do more research? :lol

 

[Suikoguy]

It's all speculation, but some are saying that there will be announcements at Cedia (www.cedia.net).

Also of interest is the Google statistics for HD-DVD and BD

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Blu-ray%2C+HD%20DVD

for some reason HD DVD wins on every category. Does this mean HD DVD supporters, or potential customers just do more research? :lol

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Blu-ray,+HD-DVD&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0
Besides, multiword google comparisons are pretty useless

 

[thaivo]

So what does it mean that those are contradictory? That although the overall search volume has been for HD DVD, the increases in volume (trends) are on BD side?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

http://www.google.com/trends?q=Blu-ray,+HD-DVD&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

Shows how meaningless that search is. I suppose if I search for "HD" and "DVD" (as in, I have an HDTV and want to know what DVD player to get) I'll show up in Thaivo's search.

I'm sooo tired. I want this war to end. Fuck Paramount. Even if HD-DVD drops another megaton, it'll be ages before Sony, Disney and Fox give up. And if they don't, HD DVD is in for a slow death. I see no resolution for over a year. I hope I am wrong.

 

[LuCkymoON]

http://www.videobusiness.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA6471724

If what That artical says is teu, then Warner has to be thinking along the same lines.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

This is frikken great. My Toshiba XA2 just stopped reading discs. It loads the disc and stops and tries to load again. I tried cleaning the lens and that does nothing. I got the XA2 in a trade (mighty fine deal) and so it has no waranty as I had no receipt.

Summer 2007 seems to be my lucky year. First my Marantz receiver fries (at least it's being fixed) and now this.

Does anyone know of a good deal in Canada for a 360 Addon? I think I'm done with standalone players until they get the reliability straight.

 

[captive]

This is frikken great. My Toshiba XA2 just stopped reading discs. It loads the disc and stops and tries to load again. I tried cleaning the lens and that does nothing. I got the XA2 in a trade (mighty fine deal) and so it has no waranty as I had no receipt.

Summer 2007 seems to be my lucky year. First my Marantz receiver fries (at least it's being fixed) and now this.

Does anyone know of a good deal in Canada for a 360 Addon? I think I'm done with standalone players until they get the reliability straight.

It heard you typing bad things about HD DVD in this thread. :lol

Jokes aside, that sucks man.

 

[mrklaw]

blah blah

What an odd article.


Paramount chose based on cost? Yet both hardware platforms prices are dropping rapidly and are not stable in any way, so not really a time to fix your colours.

And if they are talking about cost, yet publishing combo discs which have a higher MSRP than bluray, how does that help kick start things?

as for iHD being a couple of lines of code, what about all the java programmers out there already familiar with that? And not just computer Java programmers. Java is common in STB land too. iHD is the newcomer in that field. One not surprisingly being pushed heavily by MS.


I'm all for these 'hey lets not argue, things are quite simple' articles, but not when they are used to further stir the pot and confuse things with half truths

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

It seems as important to some people that Paramount chose for enlightened reasons as it is for others that they were bought off.

It's doesn't really matter, does it?

What matters is that now we're closer to parity, with BD still out in front, and no end in sight.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Here's an interesting note on how stupid the HD format war is. Take note of the top three replies.

IMDB had a poll regarding the Dreamworks decision:

What do you think of the Paramount/DreamWorks move to drop Blu-ray support and go HD-DVD only?

I have neither system and this makes want to enter HD media even less. I'll stick with DVD for the time being. 3934 (62.8%)

I have no opinion. 682 (10.9%)

What is HD-DVD and Blu-ray? 617 (9.9%)

I welcome it since I have HD-DVD only. 483 (7.7%)

I find it annoying since I support only Blu-ray. 468 (7.5%)

I have both systems so I don't care. 79 (1.3%)

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Here's an interesting note on how stupid the HD format war is. Take note of the top three replies.

IMDB had a poll regarding the Dreamworks decision:

What do you think of the Paramount/DreamWorks move to drop Blu-ray support and go HD-DVD only?

I have neither system and this makes want to enter HD media even less. I'll stick with DVD for the time being. 3934 (62.8%)

I have no opinion. 682 (10.9%)

What is HD-DVD and Blu-ray? 617 (9.9%)

I welcome it since I have HD-DVD only. 483 (7.7%)

I find it annoying since I support only Blu-ray. 468 (7.5%)

I have both systems so I don't care. 79 (1.3%)

Emphasized for greater effect! This Q4 will be telling. HD DVD needs to make a giant leap in player and disc sales or it will be determined that the vast majority don't care which studio supports who - as long as there's 2 formats, they aren't investing.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Way to "jump start" the HD media Paramount! :lol