Ignatz Mouse
Banned
DarkJediKnight said:
While this is exactly what I fear, do consider that people tend to reinforce their current choice, and since most people haven't adopted, this was likely to be a big winner anyway.
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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
- Thread starter HyperionX
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While this is exactly what I fear, do consider that people tend to reinforce their current choice, and since most people haven't adopted, this was likely to be a big winner anyway.
Cold-Steel
Member
Well, we know Blu-ray sales will be just fine this holiday. 
Cold-Steel said:Well, we know Blu-ray sales will be just fine this holiday.
Seriously, the only thing that's not added to the pile is the potential Transformers sales. Everything else is still a go AFAIK.
However I'm wondering how many of the current buyers were put off from Blu-ray altogether and will wait it out leading to lower sales.
Cold-Steel
Member
djkimothy said:
I believe many of them are purchasing Wild Hogs.
beatboy was right about the 28 Weeks Later and Mr Brooks dates the other day, so I'm believing this one too:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896921
djkimothy said:
Simpsons was like 3 or 4 episodes mashed together. So if you like the Simpsons you should like the movie. But I thought the second half was less funny than the first because it had too much story and not enough crazyness for my taste.
Oh and to enjoy the movie you have to accept a major logic flaw.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Onix said:
First off, Toshiba just agreed to sell 10% of the Westinghouse Nuke plant business to Kazakhstans national atomic company for $540 Million. This was controversial, because by most outside observers, it seemed Kazakhstan was paying a bit too much of a premium for the stake. So, even at a bit of an inflated value, some simple math would show that if 10% of a company is worth $540 Million, the whole company is worth approx. $5.4 Billion.
Toshiba bought the controlling 77% of Westinghouse for 4.16 billion last year.
The Chinese deal is for four plants. New plants in the 1000-Megawatt range are usually said to cost around $2 Billion each over a construction period of five years. So that doesn't really get us anywhere near a "$60 Billion contract" at all. And keep in mind also that if Westinghouse is given $8 Billion or even $10 billion to build four nuke plants, that doesn't mean they get to pocket all that money in profits. They still have to build the four plants.
I think this guy is clearly talking out of his ass.
DarkJediKnight
Member
djkimothy said:
Ratatouille will cancel out Shrek 3 sales.
I think Pirates 3 will cancel out Transformers sales.
Silver Surfer + Simpsons can outsell Bourne Ultimatum.
Superbad will cancel out Knocked up.
And you still have Spiderman Trilogy, Die Hard Trilogy + Die Hard 4 that will go uncontested.
This Q4 won't be won on the software front. Blu-ray clearly has the edge here despite no Paramount.
It will be interesting to see how low the player prices go and if that brings a significant number of new buyers that will change the software sales numbers. If, IF HD DVD can outsell Blu-ray in software sales in Q4, this war is over. And I predict both Disney and Warner will go HD DVD exclusive come CES. If Blu-ray expands its lead and keeps the momentum going despite lower HD DVD player prices, it signals that no matter how low people aren't buying into HD DVD. Studios will act accordingly.
IMO, HD DVD needs to FIGHT BACK NOW! With Heroes + Battlestar.
I'm gonna get the popcorn out. It will be interesting.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
That's such a preposterous way of looking at it, as if the movies are going to cancel out each other somehow. :lol
I doubt anyone's going to sit there and compare movies the way you just did. Ok, maybe like a tiny percentage might, but I think the driving factor is still going to be hardware pricing plus software. So, if you have a Ps3, you go "oh, look, PoTC is out on Blu Ray and my Ps3 can play it", but if you're sitting there exclusively looking for HD disc movie player, you're likely to go with HD DVD because of price plus the movies you mentioned.
I don't think any of us can pretend to know what will happen, especially now that the Paramount megaton evened things up a bit in terms of blockbusters. But matching up movies like that is absurd.
I doubt anyone's going to sit there and compare movies the way you just did. Ok, maybe like a tiny percentage might, but I think the driving factor is still going to be hardware pricing plus software. So, if you have a Ps3, you go "oh, look, PoTC is out on Blu Ray and my Ps3 can play it", but if you're sitting there exclusively looking for HD disc movie player, you're likely to go with HD DVD because of price plus the movies you mentioned.
I don't think any of us can pretend to know what will happen, especially now that the Paramount megaton evened things up a bit in terms of blockbusters. But matching up movies like that is absurd.
OokieSpookie
Banned
VanMardigan said:
How is it so absurd?
It has happened multiple times already, or lest we forget "Just wait until Matrix trilogy"...oh wait blu ray won that week too, Children of Man..blu ray won...hmm..oh yeah the 300 best version..blu ray won and canceled it out, same with Hot Fuzz with its perfect reviews.
All he is saying is that for every big thing that HD gained from the deal, blu ray has something to keep the damage down.
This is all about sales ratio and winning that correct?
The whole purpose of the Paramount deal, the reason that even people that have no interest in high def movies came crawling out of the woodwork to troll is that it is supposedly going to give Hddvd an advantage and a sales boost or am I wrong?
OokieSpookie
Banned
bill0527 said:
I have to ask why you are put off by blu ray?
They are in the lead, and will stay that way unless something major comes up.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
OokieSpookie said:
Yeah, but you proved my point by listing software that failed to significantly drive hardware sales. It's a combination of hardware plus software that will make the difference.
All he is saying is that for every big thing that HD gained from the deal, blu ray has something to keep the damage down.
This is what I disagree with both of you about. It's not about matching one blockbuster with another. It's about matching recent blockbusters and key catalog titles with attractive hardware pricing. That's what has to happen for either format to skyrocket. Even with the big Ps3 advantage, Blu Ray has yet to take off. The standalones have to drop in price significantly, since its obvious that the Ps3 alone will not drive mainstream adoption. It, too, is struggling to gain acceptance in its arena (gaming).
As far as HD DVD, without a trojan horse, it has to gain acceptance through significantly lower hardware pricing and exposure for its software catalog.
Both formats face an uphill battle, but simply rattling off big name movies to cancel off each other isn't going to get the job of mainstream acceptance done.
DarkJediKnight
Member
djkimothy said:
If HD DVD outsells Blu-ray in software in Q4. It would mean that the PS3 isn't enough and that HD DVD's standalone prices wins over.
DarkJediKnight
Member
VanMardigan said:
DJK said:
I love you contradict me and then REPEAT THE EXACT SAME THING I just said. I think you have this obsession over picking fights for the sake of fighting.
OokieSpookie
Banned
VanMardigan said:
I can agree with alot of what you are saying.
If Paramount breaks out their catalog and gets serious they can gain some great ground.
There are quite a few movies in their backlist that would make me pick up an HD player.
Braveheart is number one (uncut which has never been released yet), followed by :
Friday the 13th movies
It's a wonderful life
Escape from LA
The Puppet Master and all of the other Full Moon catalog
Hellraiser 3
Pet Cemetary
Young Sherlock Holmes
Silver Bullet
Godfather
Not to mention the Star Trek card they hold especially with the new remastered episodes on tv these days.
They would make a great hd release.
OokieSpookie
Banned
DarkJediKnight said:
If Sony was smart they would find a way to give PS3 owners a big push toward picking up some movies on blu ray.
Some kind of coupon or discount card that you get when you register your ps3 online or regular coupons in your email.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
DarkJediKnight said:
No, that's not the part we differ on. I am specifically referring to your listing of blockbuster titles on each side and talking about how they cancel out each other.
This part:
DarkJediKnight
Member
OokieSpookie said:
Or they could bundle each PS3 with Open Season or something. A G rated flick that looks stunning.
I'm still stumped at to why MS doesn't bundle a black HD DVD player with the Elite.
DarkJediKnight
Member
VanMardigan said:
But don't they for the most part? Wildhogs sold around 25k copies for Blu-ray last week. It oversold Hotfuzz, and whatever gain Hotfuzz made for HD DVD in terms of disc sales was eliminated by Wild Hogs. Allowing Blu-ray to maintain their 2:1+ sales lead for another week.
OokieSpookie
Banned
If they had, or if they had the Elite come with a coupon to get the add on for $100 then we wouldn't be having this thread anymore.DarkJediKnight said:
I wouldn't get the add on myself, it is a sub standard drive compared to most stand alones but you get the point.
titiklabingapat
Member
MS would be stupid to add yet another SKU to thier 360 line.
OokieSpookie
Banned
titiklabingapat said:
We are not talking about a new one, we are talking about when the Elite was released...
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
DarkJediKnight said:
No, not at all. I think that's a simplistic way to look at it. It wasn't Wild Hogs vs. Hot Fuzz. It's not like most people had to choose between those two, because both were exclusive. They didn't "cancel each other out". The better way to look it at it is to see whether either of those titles drove hardware sales, and I'm inclined to say neither did in any significant way. However, the accumulation of key catalog and recent blockbuster titles, in conjunction with hardware sell through (largely dependent on price for HD DVD, Ps3 for Blu Ray) is what will determine the real market impact. That's how this war has to be won. At some point, the combination of hardware price/sales plus software plus marketing exposure will create breakthrough sales. We saw this when Ps3 launched, pushing tons of hardware, which in turned pushed software. That effect either has to be magnified (with the aid of cheaper standalones) or outperformed by HD DVD's lower pricing/software offerings for either format to take off.
titiklabingapat
Member
Still stupid. It makes the 360 look alot closer to the PS3's price, if not exceed it.
MS really had the ablity to end the war before it began. If HD DVD was standard for the 360 this thread would be more about what movies we were enjoying and all that jazz.
And don't tell me they did it for the "gamer" and choice, MS could have easily inculded it and priced the system the exact same and the company would have never missed the money because of:
1) All the profits they would recieve from VC-1 and HDi which would become standard
2) Increased 360 sales, therefore increased software and roalities
They did it because they have this myth that the xbox brand would have been profitable within a year.
And even if it cause a 3-4 month delay in the system it would have been worth it for them as the system wouldn't have been the ticking time bomb it was.
And don't tell me they did it for the "gamer" and choice, MS could have easily inculded it and priced the system the exact same and the company would have never missed the money because of:
1) All the profits they would recieve from VC-1 and HDi which would become standard
2) Increased 360 sales, therefore increased software and roalities
They did it because they have this myth that the xbox brand would have been profitable within a year.
And even if it cause a 3-4 month delay in the system it would have been worth it for them as the system wouldn't have been the ticking time bomb it was.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
What about dlp rear projection tv's, guys? Anybody have any general feelings about those?
I saw a 57in 1080p mitsubishi at a reasonable price locally.
I saw a 57in 1080p mitsubishi at a reasonable price locally.
OokieSpookie
Banned
VanMardigan said:
Best thing to do is get like 1500-1700 in your hand and go go Best Buy and Circuit City, and look at their open box area.
I could have picked up a 42 inch bravia for 1599 if I hadn't just paid off some bills right before I went.
If they do not have anything that jumps out the day you go, go back a few days later.
You WILL find a great deal sooner or later and you can get the replacement plan on it and get the Reward Zone points.
DarkJediKnight
Member
VanMardigan said:
Find out if the tv accepts 1080p. There are a lot of "1080p" tvs that only accept 1080i and upscales it internally to 1080p.
Frankfurter
Member
DarkJediKnight said:
It would cost them yet another billion in the Xbox division (basically the same goes for Sony and bundling tons of stuff to the PS3).
DarkJediKnight
Member
Look for reviews. Personally, I would not buy a tv that wasn't reveiwed by a reputable mag like Sound & Vision, Sterephile etc...
VanMardigan said:
That's a good point.
The 'console war' is debated every hour of every day here, but gaming is an industry with a proven track record of multiple 'platforms' being able to at least subsist in a given generation.
For media platforms, there is no such history ... and the 'winner' (if one does ever win), stands to have a life much longer than a console generation.
It's like this forum has it backwards or something.
Pristine_Condition said:
Yeah, I didn't look up the info to know if his numbers made any sense. Thanks for taking a looksie,
Regardless, it is moot though, as to my knowledge ... it is effectively a separate company, so its not like Toshiba Electronics can simple grab money to use for HD DVD.
jjasper said:
I don't think that is true. It would take too long to recoup the costs of the hit simply due to VC-1 and HDi licensing fees.
Look at the history of x-box, and how much money they lost. It has been known that the 360 is in dire need of making a profit. That's why we've seen high peripheral prices, few 3rd party peripherals, and unfortunately ... poor quality of HW due to low bidding.
If it was simply an issue of MS being able to absorb the cost, the 360 would have dropped its price long ago ... or would have dropped it much more right now ... since that would pretty much kill off PS3.
Everyone knows they could have dealt a death blow ... but they haven't. Obviously its because they can't afford it. You can't simply site the cash MS as a whole has on hand ... and think the Xbox devision can do whatever they want with it. It doesn't work that way. MS was pretty lenient last gen, but decided they can't do that this gen.
OokieSpookie said:
Probably because I look at HD-DVD and for the very first, see some exclusive titles that I'd like to have. I guess I'm just put off not so much at Blu-Ray as I am the fact this format war is going to drag on for a lot longer now.
I mean, where the hell is Batman Begins? Wasn't this supposed to be released on BD by now? Where is the BD version of the Matrix Trilogy? Why can't Blu-Ray seem to finally nail down a spec in a timely manner and then just leave it the hell alone?
and then there is the wife factor.
her: "hey lets watch a movie tonight"
me: "ok, you choose"
her : "lets watch this one"
me: "ok. Now go grab that reference manual in the cupboard. Check the name of the movie and that'll tell you whether its bluray or HDDVD. If its bluray, you have to put it in the PS3. If its HDDVD you have to put it in the DVD player under the TV."
her: "....... its Terminator 2. The book says both?" (yes this is made up she'd never choose that herself)
me: "ah yes. I bought that on bluray first, but then thanks to lack of region coding it was available via a distributor in Europe that had the rights, even though its produced by a Bluray studio. So I bought it on HDDVD too because it had a TrueHD soundtrack. Which one do you have?"
her: "how the fuck do I know you freak? I'm going to watch Extreme Makeover instead"
her: "hey lets watch a movie tonight"
me: "ok, you choose"
her : "lets watch this one"
me: "ok. Now go grab that reference manual in the cupboard. Check the name of the movie and that'll tell you whether its bluray or HDDVD. If its bluray, you have to put it in the PS3. If its HDDVD you have to put it in the DVD player under the TV."
her: "....... its Terminator 2. The book says both?" (yes this is made up she'd never choose that herself)
me: "ah yes. I bought that on bluray first, but then thanks to lack of region coding it was available via a distributor in Europe that had the rights, even though its produced by a Bluray studio. So I bought it on HDDVD too because it had a TrueHD soundtrack. Which one do you have?"
her: "how the fuck do I know you freak? I'm going to watch Extreme Makeover instead"
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
Well the intelligent thing to do, in my mind, would be for MS to make a 360 with a built-on HD-DVD player. Make it a more Elite Elite or something. When the prices rop and the Elite eventually goes to 349 and the Premium to 249, they should release a HD-DVD'd 360 for 449 or around there. Market it as the hardest of hardcore. 120 gig hdd, etc, etc, etc and I bet they would sell a lot more than the HD-DVD add-on has.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
mrklaw said:
Even if this is an exaggeration, it's also why I'd never buy a stand alone HD-DVD player. I'd never buy a standalone BD player either; Most people have BDs attached to their PS3s by default.
Crayon Shinchan said:
nah, I'd happily buy a standalone 'something', as it will also play your DVDs. The key point for me is I want one box that people put the shiny discs in.
Either thats bluray/HDDVD only - fine, no confusion. Or if dual format stays around (shudder), then its still only one box.
But the current situation is just royally messed up.
Witchfinder General
punched Wheelchair Mike
I only buy stand alone players as they're better made, better sounding and have better video and features.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Witchfinder General said:
If the format war is still stagnant in about 18 months, and combo players are at a reasonable price, I'll gladly pick one of those up. But having 2 seperate players taking up more space and requiring my attention as to what disc goes where... any benefit gained from having better features as a stand alone is nullified.
That said, what you say... not necessarily true in the case of the PS3; it's still the best BD player with the best features for the price point. Not to say it's perfect, but it competes well against other standalone BD players. It's also got an excellent build quality.
OTOH, if you used the X360 as your HD-DVD player... yeah, I'd have to agree soundly there.
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