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[VanMardigan]

Ah, I see. I was going to mention the projector, since I know you have one, and the Dell projector I borrowed this weekend was both loud and hot.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Projectors vary greatly in terms of noise. Mine, as I said, is pretty quiet. Eventually I will ceiling mount it and it'll be far enough away to not notice.

For a while, I used my PS2 as a DVD player. That was louder, and to the point of annoying. Everything I've heard about 2006 360's suggest that they are louder still.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Van-- noise doesn't bother me in games at all. Movies are another matter.

I don't even like my projector fan, and it's pretty quiet.

My sound system drowns my Projector. Mine is very loud - the projector I mean. I have it wallmounted pretty high to limit the noise.

Sanyo projectors seem to be the quietests.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The fans noise bother me most during quiet parts of movies. Big exciting scenes are no problem, but when somebody's whispering something important, or it's a quiet, emotion scene, a fan can really stand out.

Unrelated:

I'm still half-expecting some sort of big news today, in the wake of last week's bruhaha. Is there any scuttlebut out there about whether or not there's more big news coming?

 

[Oni Jazar]

Next week is CEDIA so we may not hear any more news until then.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Amazon has a sale now that if you purchase 3 Blu-ray or HD DVD movies, the 4th one is free.

 

[VanMardigan]

hmm, sounds good but a little steep. I'm not sure I can find 3 movies ~ $20 that I can then get a fourth one on.

edit:

Got a link to the sale?

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Nope. Something I read on Hometheaterforum.

 

[StoOgE]

I just confirmed the amazon deal myself.

Put 4 movies in your cart, and once you go to the "payment" screen, it shows -19.95 in rebates and you pay for 4.

So, effectively this is 15 dollar movies, and it works for all films. Great deal.

edit: I just tried it with 2 combos (28 bucks) and 2 20 dollar movies, and it gave me -19.95 again, so it looks like any four purchases and it gives you the cheapest one free.

I might try doing Matrix + Heroes + Sopranos + Planet Earth and see if I get one of the 60 dollar ones for free :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

Analyst Rob Enderle on why the Paramount news devastated Blu Ray (and possibly HD media):

I think that, for all of us, the battle for the next generation of DVD technology has gotten really old. This is especially true for the studios, which are well off their revenue targets.

This week, we'll look at why DreamWorks and Paramount backed HD-DVD, effectively assuring that Blu-ray will lose whether HD-DVD wins or not -- and it may still not win either.

Blu-ray: RIP

I was one of the folks who thought that Blu-ray was going to eliminate HD-DVD and by this time HD-DVD would be toast. In fact, I was one of the analysts who helped convince Time Warner to hedge its bets and go with both formats.

However, this was all before I knew the cost of the Blu-ray technology, and it was based on the assumption that Sony would never be stupid enough to price itself out of the game console market, effectively giving it to and Microsoft.

Given my history with Sony, you'd think I'd know better and would have assumed it would be that stupid. That likely would have resulted in a lot less pain all around.

PlayStation3 Impact

Not only was Blu-ray too expensive, the technology wasn't as far along as Sony led us to believe. The delays not only make the PS3 too expensive; they made it late. That was effectively a one-two punch, knocking Sony out of the lead so far in the game console business. Now, Sony is dead last by a significant margin.

This means that developers, instead of favoring Sony with their best stuff, are now concentrating on the Xbox first, and increasingly the Wii. That's because both have more homes, and thus represent a greater revenue opportunity, than Sony does.

So instead of the PS3 ensuring Blu-ray's success, right now it appears that Blu-ray may have effectively killed the PS3, at least in terms of market leadership. We'll have to wait until the PS4 before Sony has a chance to come back.

Not a Viable Data Storage Option

Blu-ray's biggest advantage is storage capacity; however, storage has grown so fast that you can get a 750 GB Seagate external drive for less than US$250.

To back that up on a 25 GB Blu-ray recorder would take 30 Blu-ray disks and more time than I think anyone in their right mind would accept. Neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray are likely to become backup platforms, and most of the data we move still fits easily on a standard dual-layer DVD.

With increasingly high-speed networks, people are using things like BitTorrent to use big files or portable high-capacity hard drives. So as transport, they aren't particularly practical either.

The high-volume home for HD Optical disks remains as a replacement for the DVD. The studios, which are not doing anywhere near as well as they'd like, desperately need something to drive revenues higher.

Both Could Fail

That won't happen until both one standard is clear and the related players drop below $200. They need both to happen or the market won't move. Currently, Blu-ray is running at more than twice the target price on players and HD-DVD is about 15 percent over target. In the case of the Xbox 360 accessory, it's actually about 15 percent under target.

This means that if the studios have any chance this year of getting a large ramp -- and I would include Wal-Mart Latest News about Wal-Mart, Amazon and anyone else that sells HD movies -- it has to be HD-DVD. Blu-ray simply can't get there.

I think all realize, or should, time isn't unlimited either. We are already talking about what comes after HD-DVD and Blu-ray, and scalers are getting so good that increasingly many are arguing that you don't need either now.

In other words, while Blu-ray can't win, in my view, there is still an excellent chance the market will simply bypass both if one doesn't ramp to high volume this year. In that instance, everyone loses.
Cause for Change

I think Paramount and DreamWorks saw this outcome and are trying to avoid it. While they did get an estimated $250 million incentive to move, that doesn't change the result. The studio execs likely realize if revenues don't improve, many of them may not be around by this time next year. Unemployment is a rather impressive motivator for change.

So, as of right now, I think it is reasonably obvious Blu-ray lost. The only question is whether HD-DVD will be allowed to win; and the decision may be up to Time Warner or Disney and not Sony or Toshiba Latest News about Toshiba.

If both lose, the long-term strategic fallout for Sony and Disney will be both impressive and memorable in terms of either company's influence going forward -- in fact, for Sony, I'm not sure things actually could get much worse.

 

[lupin23rd]

Christ, another Rob Enderle rant?

He says he thought BLU-RAY would win by now? Every six months the guy posts a new article on why HD-DVD has already won.

What a clown.

 

[Forsete]

BD lost? :lol

Dont post crap like that please.

Self proclaimed analcyst Forsete DOOMS DVD. News at 11.
"Yes.. Bob.. Its Bob, right?
-Yes
Ok, well I believe DVD is doomed and that we are seeing a comeback from VHS."

 

[ElectricBlue187]

they should've worked together, the battle to get people to buy into high def was uphill already and then they're going to fight a format war over the few customers that actually want it?

that's the recipe for failure right there

 

[jjasper]

Isn't he the guy that advertises for MS?

 

[OokieSpookie]

Analyst Rob Enderle on why the Paramount news devastated Blu Ray (and possibly HD media):

I thought you were smart enough to leave posts like that to TME to post....

 

[SRG01]

Analyst Rob Enderle on why the Paramount news devastated Blu Ray (and possibly HD media):

:lol I love the part about hard drives, because it simply isn't true.

While he talks about large hard drives, he conveniently forgets that DVDs (and any future optical format) are orders cheaper than any portable hard drive. Reliability is another factor too.

Moreover, he overexaggerates the prevalence of high speed networks and bittorrent; it is simply not practical for the typical consumer to transfer anything larger than a gigabyte, let alone 4.7 GB (current DVD size). It takes hours to transfer something this large and no future infrastructure will change this simply because the Telecom companies love making money by charging outrageous prices for poor service.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Isn't he the guy that advertises for MS?

His company specializes in "zero-cost marketing" (aka viral marketing, I assume) and he lists Toshiba and Microsoft as clients.

He also has gone on and on about how Zune would beat iPod last Christmas and what a great game Shadowrun was. Makes sense that he's saying HDM formats might both die, since that's the MS-desired outcome.

Don't expect any of the people looking for paychecks in Bill Hunt's pockets to care about any of that, however.

 

[Forsete]

His company specializes in "zero-cost marketing" (aka viral marketing, I assume) and he lists Toshiba and Microsoft as clients.

He also has gone on and on about how Zune would beat iPod last Christmas and what a great game Shadowrun was. Makes sense that he's saying HDM formats might both die, since that's the MS-desired outcome.

Don't expect any of the people looking for paychecks in Bill Hunt's pockets to care about any of that, however.

Well that about sums it up..

Anyway, on to more important matters.

Discshop one of the biggest online movie and game retailers in Sweden.. They sell about 1 million movies and games each year.. Here is the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray top 20 from them.

http://www.discshop.se/shop/prod_ca...hidef&cont=chart&lang=se&subsite=movies&&ref=

 

[VanMardigan]

If he is in fact a viral marketer, I apologize. The name sounded vaguely familiar and when he talked about suggesting to Warner that they go format neutral, I figured he was a trustworthy source.

 

[Ceb]

Well that about sums it up..

Anyway, on to more important matters.

Discshop one of the biggest online movie and game retailers in Sweden.. They sell about 1 million movies and games each year.. Here is the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray top 20 from them.

HD-DVD is nearly non-existant in a lot of EU countries. A lot of big retail chains don't carry HD-DVD products. Which is why Paramount's move was extra boneheaded. BD to HD-DVD ratio in Europe is... what, 3:1?

 

[Forsete]

HD-DVD is nearly non-existant in a lot of EU countries. A lot of big retail chains don't carry HD-DVD products. Which is why Paramount's move was extra boneheaded. BD to HD-DVD ratio in Europe is... what, 3:1?

The 3:1 figure is worldwide IIRC. It wouldnt surpise me if it was more than 3:1 in a lot of European countries.

Yeah, Paramount you retards, there is a world outside the US where HD-DVD is pretty much dead.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

If he is in fact a viral marketer, I apologize. The name sounded vaguely familiar and when he talked about suggesting to Warner that they go format neutral, I figured he was a trustworthy source.

As a long-time tech journalism reader, I've learned to screen out all comments by Rob Enderle, Dan Lyons, Maureen O'Gara, George Ou and Paul Thurrot. I still read John C. Dvorak since all his articles are basically intended as joke posts.

 

[Laurent]

I don't get how Facebook Polls work... Everytime there is an interesting question, it's usually impossible to answer because the survey is already completed...

Look at the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray results...

 

[Chiggs]

Makes sense that he's saying HDM formats might both die, since that's the MS-desired outcome.

Stuff like this makes Microsoft a scary...and scummy...company

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

If he is in fact a viral marketer, I apologize. The name sounded vaguely familiar and when he talked about suggesting to Warner that they go format neutral, I figured he was a trustworthy source.

Even though you can't read this; you're not sorry at all. You just wish you hadn't been called out on it.

Fact is, despite been a 'blu-ray shill', Bill Hunt has 100 times the credibility of this guy.

 

[VanMardigan]

Stuff like this makes Microsoft a scary...and scummy...company

Except it's not entirely true. MS wants HD DVD to win. They also want digital distribution to eventually take over and they want to be at the forefront of that. In the same way that cd's and downloadable songs can coexist for some time, so can DD and HD discs. MS believes that and is investing in both.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Except it's not entirely true. MS wants HD DVD to win. They also want digital distribution to eventually take over and they want to be at the forefront of that. In the same way that cd's and downloadable songs can coexist for some time, so can DD and HD discs. MS believes that and is investing in both.

I agree with this to a certain extent; although I have no doubts MS would fully like the balance to be in favour of DD. Heavily in favour if they have their way about it.

 

[fortified_concept]

Except it's not entirely true. MS wants HD DVD to win. They also want digital distribution to eventually take over and they want to be at the forefront of that. In the same way that cd's and downloadable songs can coexist for some time, so can DD and HD discs. MS believes that and is investing in both.

Yeah it shows from the article you posted from the MS viral marketeer.

 

[VanMardigan]

Yeah it shows from the article you posted from the MS viral marketeer.

Exactly.

 

[OokieSpookie]

I don't get how Facebook Polls work... Everytime there is an interesting question, it's usually impossible to answer because the survey is already completed...

Look at the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray results...

You seriously did not just post a facebook poll as some kind of valid information....

 

[fortified_concept]

Exactly.

haha

 

[StoOgE]

I agree with this to a certain extent; although I have no doubts MS would fully like the balance to be in favour of DD. Heavily in favour if they have their way about it.

actually, if you listen to MS, both they and Toshiba view HDDVD with its required internet connection and persistent storage (which is exandable on all players) to be a future way to get DD. There are some quotes floating around about how the HDDVD group doesnt care if its physical media or DD as long as the movies/players meet the HDDVD specs, probably came out around March/April.

So, HDDVD winning and becoming defacto could lead to HDDVD becoming the defacto means of DD. And MS and Tosh could then control the distribution system since HDDVD is a closed network.

This may be why the MS viral marketer was talking about HDD size.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

If he is in fact a viral marketer, I apologize. The name sounded vaguely familiar and when he talked about suggesting to Warner that they go format neutral, I figured he was a trustworthy source.

Viral or no, Enderle is a proven idiot as an "analyst" and has been in MS's back pocket for years.

Christ, another Rob Enderle rant?

He says he thought BLU-RAY would win by now? Every six months the guy posts a new article on why HD-DVD has already won.

Yeah, his modus operandi is to make a big deal out of the fact that he's OMG! "changing his mind," but in truth, he already said he was OMG! "changing his mind" and HD DVD would win almost a year ago:

(December 6th, 2006) "Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD DVD Wins" By Rob Enderle

I don't want to take too much time to further explain why Enderle is a tool, so I'll just reprise what I wrote way back when Enderle was marketing--er, analysing--why Shadowrun was soooooo AWESOME, (His actual phrase was that Shadowrun was a "game changer" for Microsoft, and said Sony would "be in trouble" when it took off...) I apologize for quoting myself:

Rob Enderle is a joke. A total joke. And anyone who listens to him and takes him seriously is a moran.

He is the "Principal Analyst" of "The Enderle Group" which consists of him, and his wife. Some "Group."

The man is a quote machine, that's all. If you are a lazy journalist, and don't have anything left to write, but still need to fill up a few more column inches, you give Enderle a call. That's what he's good for.

Anyone following Apple and Apple's stock knows what a total fool Enderle is.

*He predicted the iPod would flop. In 2002, he predicted Apple would drop below 2% market share.

*He predicted the IBM Power PC processor was dead and Apple would be "forced" to go to x86 processors in 2003. (Of course now we know that Apple wouldn't switch to Intel tech until it went multi-core, last year, and IBM's Power PC is far from dead, since it is the base tech for all three current-gen consoles.)

*In 2004, he honestly suggested that Apple should merge with Sun, as that would be the only thing to save the company.

*In 2004, he predicted the HP-branded iPod would sell far more units than the Apple-branded one.

*In 2005, he predicted sales disaster for Apple because of the announced switch to Intel processors.

*He also predicted that Vista would be such a huge instant success, taking off like wildfire with consumers, that Apple would have to find a partner to help them design their next OS to compete.

*In 2006 he said iTunes sales were "collapsing" when in fact they grew 84% in the first three quarters of that year.

*This year, Enderle said the LG Prada phone was better than the iPhone. [EDIT] (What a remarkable coincidence that the LG Prada was redesigned to run a Microsoft OS!)

*Current Enderle "doom-and-gloom" prediction for Apple? Ruckus will kill iTunes by 2009. Let me repeat that. Enderle predicts Ruckus will kill iTunes by 2009. That's 19 months from now. [EDIT: Now 14 months, Enderle...how's it going?] iTunes will be dead. Ruckus will be on top. In 19 [14] months. Ruckus. The service that doesn't work on anyone's iPod. Ruckus. The service that doesn't work on anyone's Zune, either. Ruckus. By 2009.

So, as you can see, as an "analyst," the guy is worthless.

 

[VanMardigan]

actually, if you listen to MS, both they and Toshiba view HDDVD with its required internet connection and persistent storage (which is exandable on all players) to be a future way to get DD.

Just to expand on that, not only do they feel like the network stuff is the beginning of merging between HD Discs and DD. They hope for that to eventually lead into a higher percentage of DD compared to HD discs, but it's clear that's a long term strategy rather than their short term one. In addition to the network features, MS also believes that managed copy can push HD DVD technology into the PC hard drive space, where you take a movie, copy that to your hard drive (legally), then use your media center device (pc, xbox 360) to push that to all HD displays in the home.

So, yeah, MS has DD in mind, but they're not trying to kill HD DVD, not at all, because it's their gateway to transition users from discs to digital content.

 

[Frankfurter]

The 3:1 figure is worldwide IIRC. It wouldnt surpise me if it was more than 3:1 in a lot of European countries.

Yeah, Paramount you retards, there is a world outside the US where both Blu Ray and HD-DVD are pretty much dead.

Fixed.

 

[captive]

What the fuck is ruckus?

 

[ari]

i just reserve heroes on hd-dvd and got the hd-dvd add on with my 360... oh, free 300 for the motherfucking win

 

[rc213]

How much storage space do the Standalones normally have and how do you expand it?

 

[StoOgE]

How much storage space do the Standalones normally have and how do you expand it?

right now they have very small amounts enough to DL some trailers/wallpaper, but they all have USB connections which would allow for HDD's to be added to the units. On top of that obviously the plan would be to expand the size of built in drives by the time DD were to take over. Plus, the managed copy issue would allow for owners to DL movies to a PC harddrive/set top box and then use a Media Center device to put that content on any device in the home.

But, even the very first HDDVD players ever released would be able to take advantage of DD 10 years from now with a USB drive added on to it.

There is a reason HDi is built into Vista. MS wants HDDVD to win, and HDi to become the defacto programming language found in movies.. be it physical media or eventually DD. Everyone that thinks MS wants HDDVD and BRD to die has no idea what HDDVD really can do and the eventual plans for it. They designed the format so that if it wins this generation, it is set up to win the DD generation too. Very forward thinking of them.

Obviously if BRD wins though, it was all for not.

 

[rc213]

right now they have very small amounts enough to DL some trailers/wallpaper, but they all have USB connections which would allow for HDD's to be added to the units. On top of that obviously the plan would be to expand the size of built in drives by the time DD were to take over. Plus, the managed copy issue would allow for owners to DL movies to a PC harddrive/set top box and then use a Media Center device to put that content on any device in the home.

But, even the very first HDDVD players ever released would be able to take advantage of DD 10 years from now with a USB drive added on to it.

There is a reason HDi is built into Vista. MS wants HDDVD to win, and HDi to become the defacto programming language found in movied.. be it physical media or eventually DD.

Thanks for the quick answer, I was thinking maybe they had small internal HDD.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

Amazon has a sale now that if you purchase 3 Blu-ray or HD DVD movies, the 4th one is free.

In addition to the b3g4, a number of HD-DVDs are buy 2 get the 3rd free. These are confirmed as working with the promotion:


12 Monkeys
40 Year Old Virgin
300
Adventures of Robin Hood
Batman Begins
The Big Lebowski
Blood Diamond
Blue Planet [IMAX]
The Bourne Supremacy
Casino
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Dune
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
The Game
Goodfellas
King Kong
Mallrats
The Mummy
The Mummy Returns
Pitch Black
Road Warrior
The Searchers
Serenity
Shaun of the Dead
Superman - The Movie
T3
TMNT

Some Blu-Ray titles are also coming up as b2g3:

300
Apocalypto
Casino Royale
Fifth Element (remastered)
GoodFellas [Blu-ray]
King Arthur
Kingdom of Heaven
Night at the Museum [Blu-ray]
The Patriot
POTC 1&2
The Road Warrior [Blu-ray]
Stranger Than Fiction
X-Men - The Last Stand

 

[jjasper]

working with the deal as in if I buy 4 movies I get 2 free from it along with the fourth one being free movie from the other deal?

Cause if so I am about to buy some movies

 

[StoOgE]

In addition to the b3g4, a number of HD-DVDs are buy 2 get the 3rd free. These are confirmed as working with the promotion:


12 Monkeys
40 Year Old Virgin
300
Adventures of Robin Hood
Batman Begins
The Big Lebowski
Blood Diamond
Blue Planet [IMAX]
The Bourne Supremacy
Casino
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Dune
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas
The Game
Goodfellas
King Kong
Mallrats
The Mummy
The Mummy Returns
Pitch Black
Road Warrior
The Searchers
Serenity
Shaun of the Dead
Superman - The Movie
T3
TMNT

For once, HD gets the better end of the deal.

just jumped all over this. Several of these Ive been waiting on

 

[StoOgE]

working with the deal as in if I buy 4 movies I get 2 free from it along with the fourth one being free movie from the other deal?

Cause if so I am about to buy some movies

:lol

I somehow doubt that, but I'll try.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

working with the deal as in if I buy 4 movies I get 2 free from it along with the fourth one being free movie from the other deal?

That's one of the most confusing sentences I've ever seen.

It's one deal or the other. Buy any three HD/BR titles, get a fourth one for free; there are selected HD/BR titles that will combine when you buy two and you'll get a third free.

 

[jjasper]

:lol

I somehow doubt that, but I'll try.

:lol Yeah it didn't work.

That's one of the most confusing sentences I've ever seen.

I don't think it is a sentence.

 

[StoOgE]

That's one of the most confusing sentences I've ever seen.

It's one deal or the other. Buy any three HD/BR titles, get a fourth one for free; there are selected HD/BR titles that will combine when you buy two and you'll get a third free.

yes, but his shady plan was a buy 4 get 3 free. Would have been brilliant had it worked :lol

i.e. pay for 4 movies on the special list get two free (works).
then, since he also bought 3 movies, get a fourth free too (massive fail)

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

am I supposed to have a code for that to work because I'm not getting anything. I did 300, Apocalypto, and Fifth Element (Remastered) and nothing happened when I got to the part where they charge me money.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Stuff like this makes Microsoft a scary...and scummy...company

He's been on Sony's payroll in the past, so it's not just MS...

 

[Cosmic Bus]

I picked up Shaun of the Dead, Lebowski and Blood Diamond. I don't really want Blood Diamond, but there wasn't anything else in the b2g3 I wanted, so I'll probably just exchange it somewhere for a movie I do want.