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[VanMardigan]

I agree with you techincally. Java/BR interactivity isn't quite there yet. However, I don't give a shit about whizzy menus or stupid sound effects. I was happy enough with DVD menus.

1. You really have no idea what HDi allows if you think it consists of "whizzy menus/stupid sound effects"

2. Given that PQ/AQ comparisons pretty much put both on equal footing, what then is the justification for paying extra for Blu Ray hardware, or what advantages does BR then have? Because if having the space/bitrate advantage hasn't produced a noticeable advantage in the most important area (PQ/AQ), and HD DVD's interactivity is clearly superior right now, how do you justify studio support for Blu Ray?

 

[StoOgE]

And Stooge, you're comments about BD vs HD DVD *again* point out the here-and-now. If you think the BD future stuff won't happen, back it up-- saying that you see the benefits of HDi right now totally ignores that the point being made isn't about "right now."

thats not actually true.

My point is I dont see any real benefit coming from BRD down the line that HDDVD doesnt allready have.. BRJ may match some of HDDVDs benefits with BRJ, but best case is BRJ will be able to match what HDDVD allready has with HDi.

but I do see potential problems down the line with the constantly changing specs of BRD as well as BR+.

So my point is, IMO I dont see BRD really surpassing HDDVD in any significant ways from an end user standpoint, but I do see it failing to match some of what HDDVD allready does.

Edit: I can see not caring about HDi/BDJ at all. I do personally, but there are plenty of people that just dont care about extra features.

 

[Oni Jazar]

thats not actually true.

My point is I dont see any real benefit coming from BRD down the line that HDDVD doesnt allready have.. BRJ may match some of HDDVDs benefits with BRJ, but best case is BRJ will be able to match what HDDVD allready has with HDi.

That's certainly a pessimistic ( & IMO untrue) view of BD-J.

 

[StoOgE]

That's certainly a pessimistic ( & IMO untrue) view of BD-J.

Why is that pessimistic? You can do some very very snazzy stuff with HDi allready. What can BRJ do again that HDi cant? What standard features does it support that HDi doesnt? Until they can show me something (or even tell me something) that its going to do that HDi doesnt do, Im going to look at it was a wash. HDi is very very nice and does alot of very cool things. Im not saying that BRJ will be bad, I just see it equalling what HDi allready does, which is pretty cool. But one in the basket is worth two in the bush.

BRJ hasnt claimed to do anything that HDi doesnt.. and they certainly havent even shown it doing what HDi can do... and we allready know its not as user friendly and its not a standard on every single BRD player on the market. Those arent untrue opinions, those are fact.

 

[Flo_Evans]

So how does Managed Copy work?

Yeah can you even do this yet? Sounds nice if I want to go on vacation or something and don't want to take the blu-ray player and movie collection with me. I asume you need a hd-DVD or blu-ray drive in your PC...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I want to thank the HD DDVD supporters who haev reminded why why I don't care about anything other than content.

So much of this fuss is over stuff 90% of people don't care about(HDi) but studios want becuase they think it's the only way to get people to re-buy catalog titles.

 

[KachoMakura]

I hope things get rectified soon enough. I'm still in the "I want all my HD movies on one format" camp, and it looked like Blu Ray would be the way to go. But now it seems like both formats are currently doomed if these studios can't get their heads out of their asses and decide on a format to go with.

It shouldn't be what format studios decide to go with, it should be about what consumers want. I hate this exclusive studio bullshit. ALL STUDIOS SHOULD BE FUCKING NUETRAL, let the consumer make their own decision.

 

[KachoMakura]

From the gaming forum:

360 HD-DVD Player #1 on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestseller...f=pd_ts_pg_1/002-9537783-9859256?ie=UTF8&pg=1

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

It shouldn't be what format studios decide to go with, it should be about what consumers want. I hate this exclusive studio bullshit. ALL STUDIOS SHOULD BE FUCKING NUETRAL, let the consumer make their own decision.

I would love that, as I think the market would pick a side fairly quickly and it would be done.

And, I'm not into arguing why a studio should go one way or another-- it's like weather, or the whims of the Gods-- it just is what it is. We have no influence on it. I argue for BluRay *becuase* several studios had picked it as exclusive.

 

[Wulfer]

I would love that, as I think the market would pick a side fairly quickly and it would be done.

And, I'm not into arguing why a studio should go one way or another-- it's like weather, or the whims of the Gods-- it just is what it is. We have no influence on it. I argue for BluRay *becuase* several studios had picked it as exclusive.

There wouldn't have been a war if that had happen! You'd all own HD-DVD players and they would have cost more. If all studios had gone nuetral we wouldn't have had Blu-ray. Remember HD-DVD was here first. (some people seem to forget that).

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

From the gaming forum:

... And according to that the PS3 is hotter than the Wii. =/

 

[AlteredBeast]

If the consumers were left to decide after everything being neutral, there would be no winner...ever. If every studio release were on both format, people would just buy the cheapest/best quality players. If an HD-DVD player was on sale one week, more people would buy that, if it were a BluRay player, ditto.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

If the consumers were left to decide after everything being neutral, there would be no winner...ever. If every studio release were on both format, people would just buy the cheapest/best quality players. If an HD-DVD player was on sale one week, more people would buy that, if it were a BluRay player, ditto.

and yet, it just wouldn't matter!

 

[nubbe]

When are we going to see HD-DVD/Bluray movies with 7.1 or 10.2 sound?

Seems like both formats dropped the ball on the audio front.

 

[AlteredBeast]

and yet, it just wouldn't matter!

What just wouldn't matter? Which format would then be the best? Exactly. If all movies were on both formats, then price would be the only determining factor in peoples' purchases.

 

[Wulfer]

Remember this is the company the Blu team wants to control our HD movies

Could Sony be caught up in another root-kit deal?

New Sony rootkit scandal?

p2pnet news | Security:- Is it possible? Could Sony be stupid enough to get itself involved in another rootkit scandal?

If Finland’s if F-Secure is correct, the answer to both questions is Yes.

Years after Mark Russinovich and F-Secure separately caught Sony red-handed secretly installing dangerous DRM spyware in the computers of people who’d bought its music CDs, Sony is at it again, blogs F-Secure’s Mikko Hyponnen.

“Monday’s post disclosed our investigation of Sony’s MicroVault USM-F fingerprint reader software,” he says, going on, “Sony’s software installs a driver that creates a hidden folder using rootkit techniques.”

Is it as lethal bad as the first Sony BMG XCP DRM case?

No, because, “The user understands that he is installing software, it’s on the included CD, and has a standard method of uninstalling that software.”

Hyponnen adds:

The fingerprint driver does not hide its folder as “deeply” as does the XCP DRM folder. The MicroVault software probably wouldn’t hide malware as effectively from (some) real-time antivirus scanners.

The Microvault software does not hide processes or registry keys. XCP DRM did.

It’s also trickier to run executables from the hidden directory than with XCP. However, it can be done.

And lastly, there seems to be a use-case: The cloaking is most likely used to protect fingerprint authentication from tampering. Sony is attempting to protect the user’s own data. In the DRM case, Sony was attempting to restrict you – the user – from accessing the music on the CD you bought. So their intent was more beneficial to the consumer in this case.

But it isn’t over yet.

The latest (will there be more?) Sony rootkit can still be downloaded from sony.net and can be used by any malware author to hide any folder, says F-Secure, adding:

“We didn’t want to go into the details about this in our public postings, but we suppose the cat’s out of the bag now that our friends at McAfee blogged about this yesterday. If you simply extract one executable from the package and include it with malware, it will hide that malware’s folder, no questions asked.

“We still haven’t received any kind of response from Sony International. Sony Sweden did however confirm in a public IDG story that the rootkit is indeed part of their software.”

Stay tuned.

http://www.p2pnet.net/story/13173

Could Sony be stupid enough to try this again? My guess is yes since, they're using the same strategy with Blu-ray. (try, try again)

Now tell me again Sony won't use it's DRM control once it's in place!

 

[rc213]

And lastly, there seems to be a use-case: The cloaking is most likely used to protect fingerprint authentication from tampering. Sony is attempting to protect the user’s own data.

How exactly is this a another root-kit deal?

 

[ManaByte]

How exactly is this a another root-kit deal?

The SecureROM on Bioshock installs a rootkit.

 

[rc213]

The SecureROM on Bioshock installs a rootkit.

I was talking about the story above not SecureROM. Are we gonna start posting everything negative with any company related to this war? Cause this thread will be easily flooded with post every time XP/Vista security hole is discovered. :lol

 

[OokieSpookie]

Remember this is the company the Blu team wants to control our HD movies

Could Sony be caught up in another root-kit deal?



http://www.p2pnet.net/story/13173

Could Sony be stupid enough to try this again? My guess is yes since, they're using the same strategy with Blu-ray. (try, try again)

Now tell me again Sony won't use it's DRM control once it's in place!

No offense, but what the fuck does that have to do with blu ray or high def in general?

 

[ManaByte]

I was talking about the story above not SecureROM.

Ah, I thought it was talking about the rootkit that was reported in the SecureROM on Bioshock.

 

[rc213]

Ah, I thought it was talking about the rootkit that was reported in the SecureROM on Bioshock.

I also had no idea Sony owned SecureROM, wow. That is something that made me leave pc gaming, Even demos had stuff like Starforce which had me chasing my tail for like a month when my was crashing like mad. =C

 

[captive]

There wouldn't have been a war if that had happen! You'd all own HD-DVD players and they would have cost more. If all studios had gone nuetral we wouldn't have had Blu-ray. Remember HD-DVD was here first. (some people seem to forget that).

HD DVD got to market first...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

HD DVD got to market first...

facts facts facts

 

[Wulfer]

HD DVD got to market first...

Also, 360 got to market first whats you point?

 

[jjasper]

Also, 360 got to market first whats you point?

HD DVD was created in response to Blu ray is the point I think he is trying to make.

 

[StoOgE]

br+ isnt anything to concern youself over:lol

 

[captive]

br+ isnt anything to concern youself over:lol

Oh how i wish i quoted your post where you said "and Br+ scares me" it seems you have edited that little part out.

 

[Wulfer]

HD DVD was created in response to Blu ray is the point I think he is trying to make.

Ok, what does that matter it didn't get to market and to top it off, it didn't get to market as a finished product to boot. (aka no ethernet port on ALL early stand alone players, BRJ 1.1 and BR+ crap) If I'd a bought one of those $1000 Blu-ray stand-alone units and it didn't have all this stuff that should have been standard from the beginning; I'd been pissed and so, would any of you and you know it!

 

[Doctor_No]

Remember this is the company the Blu team wants to control our HD movies

Could Sony be caught up in another root-kit deal?



http://www.p2pnet.net/story/13173

Could Sony be stupid enough to try this again? My guess is yes since, they're using the same strategy with Blu-ray. (try, try again)

Now tell me again Sony won't use it's DRM control once it's in place!

Remember this is the company the Blu team wants to control our HD movies

Could Sony be caught up in another root-kit deal?



http://www.p2pnet.net/story/13173

Could Sony be stupid enough to try this again? My guess is yes since, they're using the same strategy with Blu-ray. (try, try again)

Now tell me again Sony won't use it's DRM control once it's in place!

Do you want to open this can of worms? Toshiba isn't really a saint either (main HD-DVD backer, and primary beneficiary of the DVD 6C consortium).

Toshiba after all this is the company during the Cold War that broke UN international law and conspired with the Soviet Union to build nuclear submarines that could get past US/NATO defenses and be positioned to attack NATO allies with a nuclear arsenal. US and NATO built a billion dollar defense system, Toshiba helped the Soviet-Union reverse engineer this defense system with high-tech milling machines that could make propellers to avoid NATOs defense. This is strictly illegal by the COCOM agreement (which Japan is part of). The Pentagon stated that the Toshiba-COCOM incident cost the US government $30 billion to regain the technological superiority lost in the illegal sale. Congress even came close to entirely banning Toshiba from doing business in the US.

More recently (last month) Toshiba is now selling nuclear technology to China. (Iran's nuclear ally) Toshiba also managed to buy the nuclear arm of US firm Westinghouse, after much scrutiny, and then went around and sold 10% of it to the Kazakhstani government (depicted unfairly in Borat) for a Uranium deal (this month).

This entire stupid format war comes down to which Japanese electronic giant you want to be paying licensing fees to.

 

[StoOgE]

Oh how i wish i quoted your post where you said "and Br+ scares me" it seems you have edited that little part out.

its still there... i was joking about it not scaring me... it worries me

 

[captive]

Do you want to open this can of worms? Toshiba isn't really a saint either (main HD-DVD backer, and primary beneficiary of the DVD 6C consortium).

Toshiba after all this is the company during the Cold War that broke UN international law and conspired with the Soviet Union to build nuclear submarines that could get past US/NATO defenses and be positioned to attack NATO allies with a nuclear arsenal. US and NATO built a billion dollar defense system, Toshiba helped the Soviet-Union reverse engineer this defense system with high-tech milling machines that could make propellers to avoid NATOs defense. This is strictly illegal by the COCOM agreement (which Japan is part of). The Pentagon stated that the Toshiba-COCOM incident cost the US government $30 billion to regain the technological superiority lost in the illegal sale. Congress even came close to entirely banning Toshiba from doing business in the US.

More recently (last month) Toshiba is now selling nuclear technology to China. (Iran's nuclear ally) Toshiba also managed to buy the nuclear arm of US firm Westinghouse, after much scrutiny, and then went around and sold 10% of it to the Kazakhstani government (depicted unfairly in Borat) for a Uranium deal (this month).

This entire stupid format war comes down to which Japanese electronic giant you want to be paying licensing fees to.

Wow i usually couldnt give a rats ass about when people freak out over stupid shit as a justification of hating a company like sony and rootkits. Which is also ironic because Microsoft is a backer of hd dvd...
But that is some serious shit to be accused of.

 

[rc213]

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

What just wouldn't matter? Which format would then be the best? Exactly. If all movies were on both formats, then price would be the only determining factor in peoples' purchases.

If the market was split.

I mean it would; in the sense that it might hold back distribution and good deals, but if it doesn't, it really doesn't matter.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Wow i usually couldnt give a rats ass about when people freak out over stupid shit as a justification of hating a company like sony and rootkits. Which is also ironic because Microsoft is a backer of hd dvd...
But that is some serious shit to be accused of.

... it is... but the Toshiba in those stories is a relatively independent arm from the toshiba that deals with HD-DVD. That said, they're NOT a keiretsu, so they're not simply a coalition of like named companies.

 

[Doctor_No]

... it is... but the Toshiba in those stories is a relatively independent arm from the toshiba that deals with HD-DVD. That said, they're NOT a keiretsu, so they're not simply a coalition of like named companies.

Toshiba is part of Mitsui Keiretsu. The company involved in the COCOM incident is Toshiba Machine corps. (東芝機械), is part of the same company involved in HD-DVD is Toshiba Electronics (東芝機&#22120. If you'll remember that both Mitsui and Toshiba were also accused of UN COCOM international law violations. Both companies are subsidiaries of the same company.

However, my comment wasn't to derail an already stupid thread. Rather it was designed to point out the futility of arguing right or wrong in this thread.

 

[VanMardigan]

I like how every newcomer to the thread bashes the thread and often times even the users who post here, but they can't seem to stay the hell out of it. :lol

Anyway, can we get back to HD DVD/Blu Ray stuff?
Universal Launches New HD DVD Website

Further pushing the boundaries of HD DVD interactivity, Universal has launched a new consumer high-def promotional and support web site promising exclusive web-enabled content.

The studio-created site, dubbed Universal Studios Home Entertainment Hi Def, is designed to be an extensive consumer portal for all things Universal HD DVD. Among the site's offerings are a FAQ covering the format's current interactive features, extensive technical support (including connection issues and a breakdown of common software and hardware error codes) and previews of upcoming releases.

But most exciting are a number of site sections still under construction, which seem to suggest that the studio is planning to use the site as a launching pad for future web-enabled content. Labeled "Coming Soon" are several features, including something called "U-Shop," which apparently will allow consumers to buy exclusive products while they watch the movie; "Best Buddies," where fans will be able to send friends pointers to favorite clips on a given an HD DVD title via the studio's "MyScenes" feature; and a dedicated Download Center.

Universal is also promising that additional content will be made available only to registered users of the site, including trailers and other exclusive material.

 

[chubigans]

Well, Bill Hunt has some insider info:

Finally today, Kevin and Amir... this one's for you: We've been doing a lot of digging into the events of last week, and have learned from reliable sources some of what went on behind the scenes. And our friends up in Microsoft's HD-DVD Evangelism office will be pleased to know that we've CONFIRMED what they've been saying in recent days: The $150 million payment to Paramount and DreamWorks didn't come from Microsoft. It apparently came from Toshiba and/or the HD-DVD camp collectively. We've been told that Microsoft was involved in the process, but they didn't cut the checks. We've also learned from sources inside the studio and elsewhere around the industry that, despite Paramount and DreamWorks' decision, Warner remains committed to retaining their format neutral stance, and will continue to support BOTH Blu-ray and HD-DVD for the foreseeable future. So we wanted to post this, as we believe it's reliable (the most reliable information we've been able to obtain so far from independent sources) and it clarifies the situation a little bit. 'Nuff said.

 

[VanMardigan]

F***ING TOLD YOU!!!

And even after this, idiots are still going to be talking about damn escrow accounts and under the table money.

Now can BLU RAY BILL tell us who the hell is paying Fox/Disney?? Or is he not allowed to talk about that payola???

 

[Andy787]

Do you want to open this can of worms? Toshiba isn't really a saint either (main HD-DVD backer, and primary beneficiary of the DVD 6C consortium).

Toshiba after all this is the company during the Cold War that broke UN international law and conspired with the Soviet Union to build nuclear submarines that could get past US/NATO defenses and be positioned to attack NATO allies with a nuclear arsenal. US and NATO built a billion dollar defense system, Toshiba helped the Soviet-Union reverse engineer this defense system with high-tech milling machines that could make propellers to avoid NATOs defense. This is strictly illegal by the COCOM agreement (which Japan is part of). The Pentagon stated that the Toshiba-COCOM incident cost the US government $30 billion to regain the technological superiority lost in the illegal sale. Congress even came close to entirely banning Toshiba from doing business in the US.

More recently (last month) Toshiba is now selling nuclear technology to China. (Iran's nuclear ally) Toshiba also managed to buy the nuclear arm of US firm Westinghouse, after much scrutiny, and then went around and sold 10% of it to the Kazakhstani government (depicted unfairly in Borat) for a Uranium deal (this month).

This entire stupid format war comes down to which Japanese electronic giant you want to be paying licensing fees to.

Holy shit!

...

:lol :lol :lol

That's.. kind of scary. As draconian as Sony may be sometimes, I think I'll stick with the company that is only interested in my entertainment dollars.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

F***ING TOLD YOU!!!

And even after this, idiots are still going to be talking about damn escrow accounts and under the table money.

Now can BLU RAY BILL tell us who the hell is paying Fox/Disney?? Or is he not allowed to talk about that payola???

Fucking hypocrite. it either matters that companies get paid off, or it doesn't. Why bash Bill when you're taking the same stance he is?

 

[captive]

F***ING TOLD YOU!!!

And even after this, idiots are still going to be talking about damn escrow accounts and under the table money.

Now can BLU RAY BILL tell us who the hell is paying Fox/Disney?? Or is he not allowed to talk about that payola???

Shutup microsoft wrote the checks, its obvious. ;-)

And i dont think Hunt has a problem with exclusivity deals, except for when they make about as much since as the paramount one where it does nothing but prolong a war.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Toshiba is part of Mitsui Keiretsu. The company involved in the COCOM incident is Toshiba Machine corps. (東芝機械), is part of the same company involved in HD-DVD is Toshiba Electronics (東芝機&#22120. If you'll remember that both Mitsui and Toshiba were also accused of UN COCOM international law violations. Both companies are subsidiaries of the same company.

However, my comment wasn't to derail an already stupid thread. Rather it was designed to point out the futility of arguing right or wrong in this thread.

That's pretty interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[VanMardigan]

Fucking hypocrite. it either matters that companies get paid off, or it doesn't. Why bash Bill when you're taking the same stance he is?

If Bill Hunt went through all that damn trouble to see if MS paid off Paramount (only to be proven wrong), why the hell can't he approach his pals at the BDA and ask what the deal is with Fox and Disney? Or would that not be kosher because he's on their side and can turn a blind eye to their dealings?

There are no saints in this war, you're the only hypocrite for acting like you don't care about anything other than a unified format, then picking a side. If you were really that worried to the point where you're not buying enough BR discs, then why bother? Nobody told you to buy all the FUD from the BR side about how quickly this was going to be over. You obviously are too sensitive to deal with a format war and the rigors that come with early adoption.

 

[captive]

You obviously are too sensitive to deal with a format war and the rigors that come with early adoption.

Oh please enlighten us battle seasoned veteran. :lol

Seriously im finding it hard to take you seriously anymore, i dont have anything against you personaly but that made me laugh.

 

[VanMardigan]

Go ask ignatz what the paramount deal did to his Blu Ray buying confidence, and then tell me that he should've been an early adopter. Only someone who really, REALLY believed this war was over is going to be shaken by that stuff. Were Toshiba, Universal, and Microsoft supposed to just pack it in and shake Sony's hand?

edit:

anyway, on my ignore list you go along with crayon. I can't afford another ban.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Do you want to open this can of worms? Toshiba isn't really a saint either (main HD-DVD backer, and primary beneficiary of the DVD 6C consortium).

Toshiba after all this is the company during the Cold War that broke UN international law and conspired with the Soviet Union to build nuclear submarines that could get past US/NATO defenses and be positioned to attack NATO allies with a nuclear arsenal. US and NATO built a billion dollar defense system, Toshiba helped the Soviet-Union reverse engineer this defense system with high-tech milling machines that could make propellers to avoid NATOs defense. This is strictly illegal by the COCOM agreement (which Japan is part of). The Pentagon stated that the Toshiba-COCOM incident cost the US government $30 billion to regain the technological superiority lost in the illegal sale. Congress even came close to entirely banning Toshiba from doing business in the US.

More recently (last month) Toshiba is now selling nuclear technology to China. (Iran's nuclear ally) Toshiba also managed to buy the nuclear arm of US firm Westinghouse, after much scrutiny, and then went around and sold 10% of it to the Kazakhstani government (depicted unfairly in Borat) for a Uranium deal (this month).

This entire stupid format war comes down to which Japanese electronic giant you want to be paying licensing fees to.

What the bloody hell?!

 

[captive]

Go ask ignatz what the paramount deal did to his Blu Ray buying confidence, and then tell me that he should've been an early adopter. Only someone who really, REALLY believed this war was over is going to be shaken by that stuff. Were Toshiba, Universal, and Microsoft supposed to just pack it in and shake Sony's hand?

edit:

anyway, on my ignore list you go along with crayon. I can't afford another ban.

HAHAA i get put on your ignore list because you seem to think its some pro blu-ray admin banning you, thats a great way to stay unbanned btw calling out mods....

someone quote this so he can read it. :lol

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Go ask ignatz what the paramount deal did to his Blu Ray buying confidence, and then tell me that he should've been an early adopter. Only someone who really, REALLY believed this war was over is going to be shaken by that stuff. Were Toshiba, Universal, and Microsoft supposed to just pack it in and shake Sony's hand?

edit:

anyway, on my ignore list you go along with crayon. I can't afford another ban.

Protip: you're not been banned by a pro blu-ray admin.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Or was it me on ignore?

And how am I a hypocrite for wanting one format? Also, I jumped in when things looked a little more onesided. Nobody saw the Paramount thing coming.

Also, Fox and Disney have reasons other than payola to pick a side. Ever think that they *weren't* paid off?