He's probably got all the pro blu-ray users on ignore for ph34r of drawing the wrath of the evil pro blu-ray mod, and so he is just preaching to his choir. I imagine HD DVD looks pretty good when all you see is "this post is ignored" followed by an agreeing "dot" or whatever acknowledgement a pro hd dvd supporter gives him after quoting him.Ignatz Mouse said:
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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
- Thread starter HyperionX
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chubigans said:
so bill hunt lied out his ass, spread fud and then gives an acusatory apology to ms... then instead of quiting while he is ahead makes an ambiguous 'someone not ms must have paid them' accusation.
and he did all of this for his mother in law. who's copy of wild hogs wouldnt play on her betamax.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
All he's saying is why doesn't Hunt probe into who paid off fox/disney.
Not that any of this matters to me. The paramount deal ensures HD DVD will be around and least a year and half more (that in itself justifies my investment in the format) and furthermore might even win.
Not that any of this matters to me. The paramount deal ensures HD DVD will be around and least a year and half more (that in itself justifies my investment in the format) and furthermore might even win.
Doctor_No said:Toshiba is part of Mitsui Keiretsu. The company involved in the COCOM incident is Toshiba Machine corps. (東芝機械), is part of the same company involved in HD-DVD is Toshiba Electronics (東芝機器. If you'll remember that both Mitsui and Toshiba were also accused of UN COCOM international law violations. Both companies are subsidiaries of the same company.
However, my comment wasn't to derail an already stupid thread. Rather it was designed to point out the futility of arguing right or wrong in this thread.
... Holy crap. :lol
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Seriously though... that's not going to make me stop buying Toshiba branded products (that is, it wouldn't affect my decision to buy Toshiba branded products)... but in terms of evil, stupid, greedy shit that goes down, it really does take the cake doesn't it?SRG01 said:
But haters will continue to love bashing Sony, because they're sony!
favouriteflavour
Member
They are giant corporations people, there are no good ones.
Except maybe google to the best of my knowledge but it is contested particularly with the free tibet crowd.
Except maybe google to the best of my knowledge but it is contested particularly with the free tibet crowd.
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
favouriteflavour said:
There maybe no good ones, but holy crap dude that Toshiba thing...the hell...sheesh! That's takes the damn cake alright!
KachoMakura
Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Common sense would tell you that Fox and Disney are getting compensated in some way. Lowered licensing fees, a slice of the blu-ray licensing pie, something is definitely up for a studio to lose out money from publishing their catalog to 500k customers on HD-DVD.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
KachoMakura said:
I wouldn't doubt it, but unlike the Paramount deal, where numbers have been thrown out and Katzenberg let slip a reference to compensation, there's nothing solid. So a lot of fanboys are calling for an "investigation" so that somehow they can feel that the Paramount deal was justified.
It's not necessary. It's all business. There's no moral high ground to be had.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
SRG01 said:
Mitsubishi is it's own keiretsu (not part of the Mitsui group). Unless you have more goss on Mitsubishi?
Crayon Shinchan said:Mitsubishi is it's own keiretsu (not part of the Mitsui group). Unless you have more goss on Mitsubishi?
Man, this is confusing. :lol At first I thought they were the same
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiretsu
Mitsubishi used to make fighters during WWII and they still make some military stuff. I think they also used to make cruise missiles for Japan, but I could be mistaken.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
SRG01 said:Man, this is confusing. :lol At first I thought they were the same
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiretsu
Mitsubishi used to make fighters during WWII and they still make some military stuff. I think they also used to make cruise missiles for Japan, but I could be mistaken.
To throw on more confusion...
Wikipedia - Mitsui said:
So it looks like Toshiba is independent of Mitsui. The Keiretsu page lists Toshiba and Toyota as part of the Mitsui group, but the Toyota motors page makes no reference to Mitsui; only to Toyota group which says
Wikipedia - Toyota Group said:The Toyota Group (トヨタグループ
So it looks like Toshiba stands alone when it makes those crazy decisions. But having some understanding of business; an entire corporation is not always responsible for the actions of a few greedy selfish men that work within it.
OTOH, if it keeps up, it definetly becomes hard to seperate the corporate culture from those men.
Marty Chinn
Member
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the framing problems just discovered in Pirates of the Carribbean.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Forsete said:
I'm sure that made alot of difference. +1 forsete
So you'll be getting the $199 Venturer then?
Forsete
Member
Days like these... said:
Over the last year I've spent well over 6000USD on electronics, so yeah it probably has made a difference.
Nope, I've choosen to support Blu-Ray and I dont believe in prolonging this format war, so no HD-DVD for me. Plus, I live in a country where HD-DVD is dead.
Sony haven't even been region coding their releases, so there is nothing to indicate they'd use BR+. BR+ was requested from the studios is what I understood, primarily Fox.
The BDA (not sony, the BDA) then developed this additional layer of protection to meet the needs of their customers.
Perhaps Fox isn't being paid off to remain Bluray exclusive. Maybe the HDDVD group are just not offering enough protection for their needs (no region coding etc)?
VanMardigan said:
1. I was simplifying
my main focus is the movie. and on that score both formats are equivalent. I have a BD player, I don't have a HDDVD player. I'd prefer not to buy one as that means money/space/another HDMI socket somewhere.
2. There aren't any advantages. I was just countering some of the 'HDi is way simpler than Java' by pointing out Java is used in the broadcast industry a lot. Its not just a web programming language.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Aaron said:
The irony is that, despite requesting region encoding, Disney seems to have dropped region coding for at least some of their movies!
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
Xater said:
Oh... so that's how it works?
What about Pirates of the Carribean? ... that's a bit awkward isn't it? the first two are region free... am I able to get the third one region free?
akachan ningen
Member
I watch BD movies using my PS3, on my Toshiba HDTV.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
No, I didn't put you on ignore. I only have 2 people, crayon and captive, on my ignore list. Until that last exchange, you've been very civil. And no, I don't think Fox/Disney are giving up 40% of the market (higher if they were neutral) out of the goodness of their heart. Besides the discs that Sony subsidizes for them, I'm sure they receive other considerations. Heck, Sony used to do all the BR encoding free of charge to Paramount. They also offered Universal a very attractive incentives package to go neutral, so I don't think Fox/Disney would just be exclusive for charity towards Sony when every other studio is getting some nice deals.
But then, we'll never know exactly what incentives they're getting because Blu Ray Bill doesn't think it's as important as what the HD DVD guys are doing.
It's not necessary. It's all business. There's no moral high ground to be had.
So then you should be criticizing Bill Hunt, who went on a Microsoft witch hunt after the Paramount deal and blindly accused them of footing the bill, despite numerous emails from Amir and Kevin Collins explicitly stating that MS had NOT cut any checks, directly or indirectly. Through all of that, Bill has not seen it fit to question the exclusivity of Fox/Disney. Heck, the reasons why Universal is still exclusively has been a big topic for Bill and even that Blu Ray promotional site wrote an article questioning Universal and what they were getting to remain on the HD DVD camp.
Nobody, and I mean nobody on the Blu Ray side has put that kind of attention/scrutiny on their own exclusive studios, which is odd because, outside of Sony, NO studio has a personal stake in the success of Blu Ray.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Van, you miss my point, which is that there are pretty big reasons for Fox/Disney not to be format neutral besides money. The BDA changed the spec to accommodate them, for one.
I'm not saying they aren't getting some deal, but ever since Paramount and Dreamwworks payoffs were made public the HD-DVD myopic have ranted about Fox Disney payoffs (without evidence), while at the same time justifying Paramount's. That's hypocritical. Either payoffs do or don't matter My stance-- they don't. I've never bitched about the ethics or morality or rightness or wrongness of the Paramount deal, I've just expressed my anger that it happened. But it's business, as is all of this.
Edit: You amended your post, I'll address your point:
Bill Hunt is hypocritical. You might have missed where I said I don't read his site or pay much attention to him. What he wrote about why BluRay was (note: was) the best choice made sense and was well-reasoned at the time, and I stood up for that article. When I mention him here, it's generally to point out your, TME, and Mana's hypocrisy in ragging on him and alluding to him being paid off, etc, while posting PR and "analysis" from known marketing agents of the HD DVD camp without any criticim or scrutiny at all.
I'm not saying they aren't getting some deal, but ever since Paramount and Dreamwworks payoffs were made public the HD-DVD myopic have ranted about Fox Disney payoffs (without evidence), while at the same time justifying Paramount's. That's hypocritical. Either payoffs do or don't matter My stance-- they don't. I've never bitched about the ethics or morality or rightness or wrongness of the Paramount deal, I've just expressed my anger that it happened. But it's business, as is all of this.
Edit: You amended your post, I'll address your point:
Bill Hunt is hypocritical. You might have missed where I said I don't read his site or pay much attention to him. What he wrote about why BluRay was (note: was) the best choice made sense and was well-reasoned at the time, and I stood up for that article. When I mention him here, it's generally to point out your, TME, and Mana's hypocrisy in ragging on him and alluding to him being paid off, etc, while posting PR and "analysis" from known marketing agents of the HD DVD camp without any criticim or scrutiny at all.
I thought Fox was Blu-ray only because of BD-J and Disney was Blu-ray only because of region encoding.
These are issues that the BD group had to commit to in order to get those companies on board.
edit: What Ignatz said.
I do think however that Bill Hunt, as much as I agree with him often, owes Microsoft an apology for painting them as the red devil in this Paramout deal.
These are issues that the BD group had to commit to in order to get those companies on board.
edit: What Ignatz said.
I do think however that Bill Hunt, as much as I agree with him often, owes Microsoft an apology for painting them as the red devil in this Paramout deal.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
One last thing about Bill Hunt: I don't think he is paid, I think he really picked BluRay for the reasons he stated. Otherwise he wouldn't have had a big emotional mentdown (as quoted here) when the Paramount news broke. If he were just a viral shill, he'd have had some cool, reasoned, and very spin-doctored replies to the whole Paramount deal. Instead, he was about ready to pridict WB going Red. Not very good PR, if he's being paid.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Ignatz Mouse said:
No, you know what's hypocritical? It's when the Paramount deal broke and TONS of folks flooded into this thread and wrote all kinds of rants about Microsoft trying to kill HD discs and buying out the industry and engaging in unethical practices, while at the same time ignoring the reasons why Fox and Disney are exclusive to Blu Ray. THAT'S hypocritical. And it happened just a few pages ago.
So yeah, I'll agree with you that in the end, it's business. But don't pretend like the Paramount deal was treated as such by your fellow Blu Ray owners. Their reaction seemed to indicate that only Microsoft/Toshiba would engage in that sort of behavior.
Finally, in regards to Fox/Disney, I know that region coding and stronger protection played a part in where they are now, but if you don't think they're being laced with all sorts of incentives (including promotional consideration and heavy subsidizing of disc manufacturing and encoding) you're naive. In the end, that's what Paramount got. Not a big check for $150 million, but $150 million worth of promotional considerations and subsidization, in addition to free VC-1 encoding by Microsoft.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Van, for the umpteenth time, quit generalizing and name names. For all your righeousness about people flooding in here and bitching out your favorite conglometate, there were also plenty flooding in here to spell doom for BD (and by association, Sony).
And WHO THE FUCK CARES about the incentives? I am *sure* Fox and Disney get incentives, and I would bet they are a lot less than Paramount-- not because Toshiba is more evil than Sony, but because when Fox and Disney deals were set, the stakes were somewhat lower. Paramount had much more leverage now then they did at inception.
I wish you were this much of an annoying asshole all the time, I'd feel better about putting you on ignore. So long.
And WHO THE FUCK CARES about the incentives? I am *sure* Fox and Disney get incentives, and I would bet they are a lot less than Paramount-- not because Toshiba is more evil than Sony, but because when Fox and Disney deals were set, the stakes were somewhat lower. Paramount had much more leverage now then they did at inception.
I wish you were this much of an annoying asshole all the time, I'd feel better about putting you on ignore. So long.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Anchorman in HD *drools*
btw, I know I'm lttp, but Black Snake Moan is both a good flick and a good HD transfer, so those of you with online rental accounts or a local rental joint that carries either format should check it out.
edit:
I know Disney already made the jump at E3, and I know there's no guarantee at all any of this will translate into the HD disc market, but this is interesting as well:
Fox joining Xbox family
btw, I know I'm lttp, but Black Snake Moan is both a good flick and a good HD transfer, so those of you with online rental accounts or a local rental joint that carries either format should check it out.
edit:
I know Disney already made the jump at E3, and I know there's no guarantee at all any of this will translate into the HD disc market, but this is interesting as well:
Fox joining Xbox family
variety.com said:
Last night on the History Channel there was a cool episode of Modern Marvels about 80s technology. What was interesting was they went into all the tech that Sony did at the time and I noticed how much it parallels to what's going on today. From Betamax to the Walkman to the Compact Disc.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Could you explain some of the parallels?
Ignatz, you do have to admit, there were several people in this thread that were claiming MS is paying of Paramount in order to kill both formats and paive the way for Digital Distribution.
I dont remember who it was, but it was more than one person and it was the prevalent thought the day the Paramount deal broke.
Edit: good news for the marketplace. They have almost everyone on board at this point... Sony obviously isnt going to happen for them. I even like renting movies off of the service.. I just wont ever buy a TV show, because I dont want something like that tied to my 360. I think they need to get Paramount/Dreamworks on board still.. but the movie renting service may be able to get to the point of having every major new release available.
Now, they need to get all new movies in HD and start building up some back catelog in HD.
I dont remember who it was, but it was more than one person and it was the prevalent thought the day the Paramount deal broke.
Edit: good news for the marketplace. They have almost everyone on board at this point... Sony obviously isnt going to happen for them. I even like renting movies off of the service.. I just wont ever buy a TV show, because I dont want something like that tied to my 360. I think they need to get Paramount/Dreamworks on board still.. but the movie renting service may be able to get to the point of having every major new release available.
Now, they need to get all new movies in HD and start building up some back catelog in HD.
VanMardigan said:
They talked a lot about the Beta/VHS format war. They went into specifics on how Beta had a superior image quality but VHS ultimately won the war because of three reasons:
1) VHS was allowed to be produced by any manufacturer. This lead to a healthy competition which lowered prices and attracted consumers.
2) VHS could hold 2 hours of video in a cassette while Beta could hold less then half that. Most movies were longer then what Betamax could hold.
3) VHS allowed the porn industry to create tapes which created a large demand since before then you had to use a projector or go to a dirty movie parlor *shudder*.
While times have certainly changed since the 80s and you can't draw direct comparison from the old format war to the new but it is interesting that we are back again at another format war.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Oni Jazar said:
Immediately conjures up memories of Blade 2. *shudders*
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
StoOgE said:
Stooge, I stil think MS either wants HD DVD to win or both to lose, and I doubt they care which. What I am reacting to is this indignation about it all. Yeah, the people who ranted about MS were probably turning a blind eye to BD group practices-- but in case you hadn't noticed, the only people still on this knob are Mana and Van.
And yes, Marketplace has nearly everyone on board. God help us if the digital distribution model kills the physical media and that's what's required to buy HD movies.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
So, in the end, I didn't pull the trigger on either Amazon deal. The HD A20's 1080p performance got bad reviews, and the Ps3 was still too much at $499 (mostly because I couldn't subsidize its cost by selling my add-on the way I could if I bought the HD A20).
I just bought an HDMI 360 premium instead. I will be selling my used 360 for $250, so I'll only be paying about $100 to upgrade to a newer 360 w/hdmi. I'll get dvd upscaling and 1080p on all my HD DVD's and games.
I know that by the time November/December hits, there will be much better deals on Ps3's, so I'll see where I am then.
I just bought an HDMI 360 premium instead. I will be selling my used 360 for $250, so I'll only be paying about $100 to upgrade to a newer 360 w/hdmi. I'll get dvd upscaling and 1080p on all my HD DVD's and games.
I know that by the time November/December hits, there will be much better deals on Ps3's, so I'll see where I am then.
Little bit of news from Sharp's Press Conference & IFA:
http://techdigest.tv/2007/08/ifa_07_liveblog.html
http://techdigest.tv/2007/08/ifa_07_liveblog.html
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
If they want to dominate the BR player market, they just need to undercut everyone else on the BD camp and sell the players for the same price as Toshiba sells their hardware. If that's even possible. Otherwise, what leverage would they have in order to outsell established manufacturers like Phillips and Sony?
Sirolf
Member
DarkJediKnight
Member
A bit off topic but SAY HALLO TO MY NOT SO LITT'O FRIEND!
Onkyo 805 THX Ultra receiver. I decided I wanted to go the HDMI 1.3 route as I wanted to be able to pass DTS MA bitsteam from the new 3rd gen players coming (PS3 is included as well since it's 1.3).
Once my Marantz is fixed and returted to me, it goes for sale. I'm gonna take a slight hit on overall quality, but the new DSPs in the Onkyo are top notch and should balance it all out.
Onkyo 805 THX Ultra receiver. I decided I wanted to go the HDMI 1.3 route as I wanted to be able to pass DTS MA bitsteam from the new 3rd gen players coming (PS3 is included as well since it's 1.3).
Once my Marantz is fixed and returted to me, it goes for sale. I'm gonna take a slight hit on overall quality, but the new DSPs in the Onkyo are top notch and should balance it all out.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Damn. Let us know how it sounds.
Is that how much you payed for it?
Is that how much you payed for it?
The Main Event
Member
DarkJediKnight said:A bit off topic but SAY HALLO TO MY NOT SO LITT'O FRIEND!
Onkyo 805 THX Ultra receiver. I decided I wanted to go the HDMI 1.3 route as I wanted to be able to pass DTS MA bitsteam from the new 3rd gen players coming (PS3 is included as well since it's 1.3).
Once my Marantz is fixed and returted to me, it goes for sale. I'm gonna take a slight hit on overall quality, but the new DSPs in the Onkyo are top notch and should balance it all out.
How much $$$ and how many times a year do you upgrade your electronic equipments?
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