• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rubso

Banned
ManaByte said:
51CtzWj3eCL._SS500_.jpg
Click to expand...
<3
 
M

Manmademan

Member
Onix said:
You don't seem to understand the concept of a growth trend. At the start of the year, stand alone players where selling heavely in favor of HD DVD. As the year progressed, the sales ratio began getting closer and closer.

That means one of two things ... either BD is seeing a higher growth rate than HD DVD is ... or HD DVD is actually in a declining trend (in the event total sales of both units are the same or less than at the start of the year ... though I don't believe that is the case.).
Click to expand...

Exactly. Logically BD hardware sales would HAVE to be growing at a "faster rate" than HD-DVD to overtake them at all, given that HDDVD standalones were outselling BD standalones by a fair margin at the beginning of the year.

If hardware growth occurred at the SAME or SLOWER rate, HD-DVD would have maintained a lead throughout the year.

It's not spin, just common sense.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
Can anyone say something definitive about the multi-layer situation with both formats?

I've read that TDK already has 8-layer 200GB BR discs working in labs (obviously not ready for mass production), but is this part of the spec? Will existing players be able to read those discs if/when they become available?

As for HD-DVD, is it true the official spec really stops at dual-layer (30gb)?
 
M

Manmademan

Member
theBishop said:
Can anyone say something definitive about the multi-layer situation with both formats?

I've read that TDK already has 8-layer 200GB BR discs working in labs (obviously not ready for mass production), but is this part of the spec? Will existing players be able to read those discs if/when they become available?
Click to expand...

Yes.

As for HD-DVD, is it true the official spec really stops at dual-layer (30gb)?
Click to expand...

Again, yes. Any specification over dual layer for HD-DVD may as well be a new format, since it's incompatible with all existing HD-DVD players.
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Onix said:
You honestly consider someone stating you are being obtuse is calling you a name? Even discounting the fact its an adjective, do you really consider it as some sort of personal attack? If that is the case, I don't know how you survive on the internet. You must cry yourself to sleep every night.
Click to expand...
Call him a right angled triangle next and he'll put you on ignore.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
Crayon Shinchan said:
That's a really pretty poor cover. Hope it's not the real thing for your sakes
Click to expand...

Huh? For my sakes? What? Was that some kind of stupid threat?

It is the real thing. Here's the DVD two disc cover:
41-MwBAufdL._SS400_.jpg
41PLzAw-jEL._SS400_.jpg
41rRck8WSpL._SS400_.jpg
41eiecfReDL._SS400_.jpg
41SY%2BX5YYYL._SS400_.jpg
41zqb5TvPVL._SS400_.jpg
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
:lol

I took Van off ignore, which I had put him on for being obtuse... and he's still at it!

Screw the semantics over statistical language. Bottom line, once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players. And they have the PS3 advatnage on top of that.

There. Spin *that* into good news for HD-DVD.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
:lol

I took Van off ignore, which I had put him on for being obtuse... and he's still at it!

Screw the semantics over statistical language. Bottom line, once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players. And they have the PS3 advatnage on top of that.

There. Spin *that* into good news for HD-DVD.
Click to expand...


Spin your opinion? There is no "fact" in your post.
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
ManaByte said:
Huh? For my sakes? What? Was that some kind of stupid threat?

It is the real thing. Here's the DVD two disc cover:
41-MwBAufdL._SS400_.jpg
41PLzAw-jEL._SS400_.jpg
41rRck8WSpL._SS400_.jpg
41eiecfReDL._SS400_.jpg
41SY%2BX5YYYL._SS400_.jpg
41zqb5TvPVL._SS400_.jpg
Click to expand...

For your sake; because you'll be buying it right? The HD-DVD one just looks so tacky... like a 2 minute photoshop job (especially with the grey '2 disc special edition' strip up the top)

That said, the DVD proper cover actually looks pretty damn spiffy. 2 sided cover, with transparent slip off? I like *that*.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I find it amusing that people who often claim that the movie, not the extras, is the important thing are picking on Transformers over the (admittedly lame) cover art.

C'mon, guys.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Other way around. Besides thinking Van's being obtuse, there was no opinion in my post.

If this is a "play dumb" troll, then you've caught me.
Click to expand...


Yes the PS3 part was fact, didnt notice that. My bad.

But this one:

Bottom line, once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players.
Click to expand...

This is NOT fact. This is opinion, the same as: its my opinion that when a sub $200 HD DVD player hits the market this holiday and will turn the tide in this "war".
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Ignatz Mouse said:
I find it amusing that people who often claim that the movie, not the extras, is the important thing are picking on Transformers over the (admittedly lame) cover art.

C'mon, guys.
Click to expand...

Well, it wouldn't stop me from buying a movie. But damn if it isn't a crappy cover right?
 
C

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
MechDX said:
This is NOT fact. This is onpinion, the same as its my opinion that when a sub $200 HD DVD player hist the market this holiday and will turn the tide in this "war".
Click to expand...

Umm... if you had an ounce of reading comprehension, you'll see that it was stated as fact.

"once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players."

Not

"once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they will start outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players."

In otherwords, it's already happened.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
I find it amusing that people who often claim that the movie, not the extras, is the important thing are picking on Transformers over the (admittedly lame) cover art.

C'mon, guys.
Click to expand...


The same people who dont like the HD DVD flip discs because it lacks "disc art".:lol

Flip disc causing poor image/sound quality I could understand but because of the lack of disc art? Its in the freaking player or the case you dont see the damn cover but for what? a few seconds?
 
C

captive

Joe Six-Pack: posting for the common man
Ignatz Mouse said:
I find it amusing that people who often claim that the movie, not the extras, is the important thing are picking on Transformers over the (admittedly lame) cover art.

C'mon, guys.
Click to expand...
I would be pretty pissed that they are doing a two disc version and couldnt be bothered to include lossless audio. But alas i dont really care since i never saw the movie and dont have an hd dvd player.
 
M

MechDX

Member
Crayon Shinchan said:
Umm... if you had an ounce of reading comprehension, you'll see that it was stated as fact.

"once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players."

Not

"once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they will start outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players."

In otherwords, it's already happened.
Click to expand...


Oh shit, I didnt read it properly. Just disregard then.:lol Im on my wifes crappy laptop waiting for my new videocard to arrive and cant see shit on this damn screen.

But that fact you posted is based on a short timeframe courtesy of Sony. I believe you will see a reversal that will resemble more of the LTD numbers this month.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
VanMardigan said:
I don't think you understand the information being presented. The current YTD rate is NOT 55/42 in favor of Sony. Only the previous month is. So, within the last month, Sony has outsold Toshiba at the same rate that Toshiba outsold Sony for the rest of the year. Sony attributed the RECENT spike to their cheaper BD standalone, while Toshiba countered by pointing out that it still has the YTD lead.

Now, that being the case, how is Toshiba's YTD lead "not much" while Sony's recent surge is "a faster rate"?

And did you even see the chart Sony themselves used? There was no gradual trend towards BR outselling HD, just the spikes you dismissed. Sony has outsold Toshiba in previous weeks, even, just not overall. So you falsely assumed there was a gradual increase that eventually led to last month's lead.

And if you're going to respond by calling me names again, don't bother.
Click to expand...

I can remember 2 instances where Toshiba claimed 65% standalone sales. Then it was 61%, now it's 55%.
 
ManaByte

ManaByte

Gold Member
Disney Investigating Reported Framing Issues on 'POTC' Blu-ray

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Reported__Framing_Issues_on_POTC_Blu-ray/927

The discovery of apparent framing issues on Disney's Blu-ray release of 'Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl' has caused a mini-firestorm among early adopters online, and now the studio says it's looking into the problem.

'The Curse of the Black Pearl' first hit stores this past May, as one of the most highly-anticipated Blu-ray releases on the format thus far, and it earned high marks from most reviewers (including our own Peter Bracke).

More recently, however, reports have surfaced online that the disc suffers from significant framing problems that wreak havoc with the film's original aspect ratio

The story first gained traction early last week when an eagle-eyed AVS Forum member named Denner posted a series of side-by-side comparisons of the same scenes on both the Blu-ray and the standard-def DVD versions of 'Curse of the Black Pearl.'

The screen captures present stark and compelling evidence that numerous sections of the high-def version are noticeably mis-framed, resulting in such glaring crops as the one captured below, as posted by master AVS screencapper Xylon:

original.jpeg
original.jpeg


Since its original posting last week, Denner's AVS Forum thread has been viewed over 25,000 times, and has spawned several popular "companion threads" both at AVS and elsewhere.

We contacted Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment about the apparent issue, and were told that they are now aware of the potential problem with 'The Curse of the Black Pearl' Blu-ray release and are investigating the matter, but have no official statement at this time.

Needless to say, we'll keep you posted as soon as any official word comes in from the studio. Stay tuned...
Click to expand...
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Onix said:
Please post it ... I'm at the airport and have a shit connection. The only pic I recall is the SW sales one.
Click to expand...

So where do you go off on calling me obtuse? How do you justify making broad statements like growth trends and who was outselling who at what point and all that other junk????? You don't have the info, yet here you go making inferences about growth rates and such. And then calling me obtuse when I refute the claims, despite admitting you haven't seen the hardware weekly sales charts, and I have.

In your mind, you think that Toshiba had this HUGE LEAD at the beginning of the year, which has gradually decreased. This is the "growth trend" you speak about, yet there is no such trend. This false assumption is what's driven all the misinformation you have propagated. But here you are now admitting that you haven't seen the hardware sales numbers chart. And yet, I'm the one being ridiculed.

The HD hardware market is all about spikes caused by hardware pricing, which is normal for such a young market. You'll be shocked to know that Blu Ray players actually sold on par (and often above) HD DVD players until Toshiba dropped the price in APRIL. That's right, for the first 3 months of the year, it was Blu Ray that had the YTD standalone sales lead. After the price drops, Toshiba had a huge three month spike that secured their YTD sales lead. In July, after the cheaper Blu Ray player shipped, Blu Ray's sales spiked and up into August, it sold abotu 55/45 weekly.

You see any growth trends there? No, it's all about spikes in hardware caused by revised pricing. Guess what'll happen once Gen 3 HD DVD players arrive and Gen 2 drops in price? That's right, another sales spike for Toshiba. That's the only real thing that we can derive from these numbers, is that the market is young and new hardware or price drops can cause spikes.

I can remember 2 instances where Toshiba claimed 65% standalone sales. Then it was 61%, now it's 55%.

All of that was after the April price drop. Until that point, it was pretty much 50/50 with Blu Ray at one point even doing close to 60/40 per week.

After the price announcement, Toshiba rose as high as 80/20 for one week. Most recently (with the lower priced BD standalone), Blu Ray got up to 70/30 on one week, before the sales started smoothing out to their current 55/45 level (and that was up until mid August).
 
O

Oni Jazar

Member
I saw the PoTC a couple days ago, specifically the misframed scene (blacksmith shop). It really is a big deal over nothing. I think the Universal BttF2 misframe was worse. I'd sign up for a replacement if Disney offers one but honestly I can't help but suspect a big part of the noise is because of the format war - which has nothing to do with the issue.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
There is one other thing we can determine-- the argument that cheaper players will drive adoption is bunk.

Now that we've seen the chart for the whole year, we see that BluRay dedicated players have done very well competing against both HD DVD and the PS3. So the whole price advantage is a myth-- this sales spike just drives that home.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Bottom line, once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players.

I like how the street price of the Toshiba's are compared with the BD retail prices. No hypocrisy there at all.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
VanMardigan said:
Bottom line, once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players.

I like how the street price of the Toshiba's are compared with the BD retail prices. No hypocrisy there at all.
Click to expand...


Aren't street prices typically lower than MSRP?
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
VanMardigan said:
Bottom line, once dedicated BluRay players hit $500 they started outselling $300-$200 HD-DVD players.

I like how the street price of the Toshiba's are compared with the BD retail prices. No hypocrisy there at all.
Click to expand...

You're right-- I should say $475 BluRay vs $200 HD-DVD players.

I'm so used to comparing HD-DVD street to MSRP BluRay, since that's what all the HD DVD fanboys here do.

(I assume street price on the BluRay is coming down, but it was pretty near MSRP for quite a while there)


Edit: A quick look shows that the prices are more like $240 vs $430. We'll see how those sales ratios stand up over time.
 
D

djkimothy

Member
VanMardigan said:
Exactly, and that difference is used to try to create a bigger price discrepancy than really exists.
Click to expand...

But then why are we comparing a player capable of outputting 1080p to one that can't?
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
distantmantra said:
Coming out on December 11th? Sweet, now we need new info on the Blu-ray/HD-DVD boxsets.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I already have a savings fund for that box set :lol

Don't be surprised though if the set releases on the same day.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Famitsu Sales: Week 2, 2025 (Jan 06 - Jan 12)
Sales-Age
20
1K
Woopah replied
Famitsu Sales: Week 41, 2024 (Oct 07 - Oct 13)
Sales-Age
37
2K
Porcile replied
[GSD] UK Sales November 2024 (BF data missing): #1 PS5 (26% Pro); #1 COD BO6, #2 EA FC25, #3 DA: Veilguard
Sales-Age 2
70
4K
EDMIX replied
UK Monthly Charts: EA Sports FC 25, Space Marine 2, Astro Bot and PS5 impress in bumper September
Sales-Age 2 3
108
7K
Physiognomonics replied
Europe 2024 End of Year Charts : #1 PS5 (-20%), #2 NSW (-15%), #3 XBS (-48%)
Sales-Age 2
84
4K
mckmas8808 replied
Top Bottom