Support NeoGAF

[ParticleReality]

Something else from the link that is chuckle worthy:



:lol

Sony likes money. HD-DVD makes money so might as well jump in and score a little profit.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm sure you'd love it if it looked like this:

Yeah ... that's a bit better.


Regardless, they REALLY need to get rid of that 2-disk crap ... jesus, its almost as big as the title. Frigging hideous.

 

[Raistlin]

So where do you go off on calling me obtuse? How do you justify making broad statements like growth trends and who was outselling who at what point and all that other junk????? You don't have the info, yet here you go making inferences about growth rates and such. And then calling me obtuse when I refute the claims, despite admitting you haven't seen the hardware weekly sales charts, and I have.

In your mind, you think that Toshiba had this HUGE LEAD at the beginning of the year, which has gradually decreased. This is the "growth trend" you speak about, yet there is no such trend. This false assumption is what's driven all the misinformation you have propagated. But here you are now admitting that you haven't seen the hardware sales numbers chart. And yet, I'm the one being ridiculed.

The HD hardware market is all about spikes caused by hardware pricing, which is normal for such a young market. You'll be shocked to know that Blu Ray players actually sold on par (and often above) HD DVD players until Toshiba dropped the price in APRIL. That's right, for the first 3 months of the year, it was Blu Ray that had the YTD standalone sales lead. After the price drops, Toshiba had a huge three month spike that secured their YTD sales lead. In July, after the cheaper Blu Ray player shipped, Blu Ray's sales spiked and up into August, it sold abotu 55/45 weekly.

You see any growth trends there? No, it's all about spikes in hardware caused by revised pricing. Guess what'll happen once Gen 3 HD DVD players arrive and Gen 2 drops in price? That's right, another sales spike for Toshiba. That's the only real thing that we can derive from these numbers, is that the market is young and new hardware or price drops can cause spikes.

I can remember 2 instances where Toshiba claimed 65% standalone sales. Then it was 61%, now it's 55%.

All of that was after the April price drop. Until that point, it was pretty much 50/50 with Blu Ray at one point even doing close to 60/40 per week.

After the price announcement, Toshiba rose as high as 80/20 for one week. Most recently (with the lower priced BD standalone), Blu Ray got up to 70/30 on one week, before the sales started smoothing out to their current 55/45 level (and that was up until mid August).

I'm not even going to address this unless you post the graph you keep referencing.


Basically everyone here seems to feel you are in the wrong.

 

[VanMardigan]

Nice onyx,

nice way to cover your ass. So you have no info, present no evidence, yet I'm the obtuse one. :lol

 

[Raistlin]

Exactly, and that difference is used to try to create a bigger price discrepancy than really exists.

As though that hasn't been used as a supposed positive for HD DVD in the past? Most HD DVD nuts have cited similar pricing when discussing the cost advantage of HD DVD.


Only now that BD sales look pretty good given the price discrepancy do any of them correct it

 

[Costanza]

jason bourne says hi.

eh, I got the first 2 on DVD. I'll probably wait till they put out a boxset when the 3rd one releases.

 

[Raistlin]

Someone on highdef digest forums pointed out something funny.

150 million dollars gets you hidden behind Bumble Bee.

It reminds me of Monsters Inc. when the 1 eyed cyclops would have his face obscured on a magazine with a bar code or something.

:lol

Wow ... that's pretty lame

 

[Raistlin]

Are those based off of retail dollars or units? If it's units, for Heroes to do that well at $70$-100 is amazing.

Look at Planet Earth

 

[OokieSpookie]

When I posted:



You quoted me and posted:



So now you clarify.

Right, you said that hd should win the week of 10/16 and I was saying that if hd could not win the week that heroes came out when there were literally no blu ray releases that you can not honestly expect Transformers to win the week of 10/16 since there are BR movies coming out that same week.
Transformers will do crazy well, but it will not give HD a win.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Is Barry Lyndon not coming out on Blu? That film is like watching a painting sometimes

 

[StoOgE]

Look at Planet Earth

planet earths sales on hddvd vs brd still confuses the shit out of me

 

[Raistlin]

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...s_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Date_Years_1-5_Also_Due/946

>_<


Damn you!!!!!

 

[Raistlin]

planet earths sales on hddvd vs brd still confuses the shit out of me

In what way ... that they were so high?

 

[StoOgE]

In what way ... that they were so high?

brd burries hddvd.

except for that disc

 

[Raistlin]

You can play the DTS core don't worry.

Yeah ... that's comparable >_<

 

[Raistlin]

Nice onyx,

nice way to cover your ass. So you have no info, present no evidence, yet I'm the obtuse one. :lol

Dude ... WTF?


I'm ASKING YOU to post the damn graph ... even if it DOES strengthen your argument. I would simply like to see the info.



As far as not having evidence ... my recollection (along with everyone here) is that HD DVD standalone sales where higher at the beginning of the year ... and have generally trended downwards in margin over BD.

If you have info that shows this to be incorrect ... fine ... I would just like to see it since the consensus here is that everyone thought things played out differently.

Why won't you just post it so we can stop derailing this thread?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Yeah, Van's back on ignore.

Tip: Don't get involved in an argument and then just stop responding when your premise falls apart. At least we won't hear how "Standalones" can't possibly sell as well as HD-DVD players now that we know that they already have. Of course, van, you are telling me nobody here ever claimed that. Whatever.

 

[Chemo]

I have never read ANYTHING in this thread that indicated that the standalone player race was close. Now, though, we find out the Blu-ray players have started outselling HD DVD players and suddenly it was always a close race and we're retarded for pointing out that HD DVD has no ground left to turn to?

What sense does this make? This was the horn that HD DVD supporters were blowing for months. "Standalones are what counts, and HD DVD standalones are outselling Blu-ray standalones... standalones sell software, PS3s do not... price is what's going to win this war, not content or the PlayStation 3..." So what is the claim now? Are supporters going to back even further into a corner and cling to the last remaining bastion of hope: the fact that the HD DVD standalone player total install base is currently larger than Blu-ray players?

I also want to add that while I was taking a break from this thread, the claim that exclusive studios had "evened out" was made by quite a few people. Can I get a lol? Someone please tell me exactly when Universal plus Paramount minus Spielberg's films somehow became the equivalent of Sony plus Disney plus Fox. I guess I'm going to be waiting a long time for the answer to that question because I seriously doubt anyone is going to have the balls to admit that it's still heavily weighted toward Blu-ray content-wise.

So this is the question I pose to HD DVD supporters right now. What exactly are you going to do when Blu-ray standalone player install base, LTD, is larger than HD DVD's? (If it makes you feel more comfortable, feel free to read that "when" as an "if.") What will be the argument, what will be the defense? Are you going to admit defeat? Or will there be more excuses? I am not asking this in a condescending manner, I'm am genuinely inquiring. Are you guys going to suck it up and go Blu-ray, or are you going to quit high def media altogether because the "evil empire" Sony got its way for once?

-- Edit --

I would like to reiterate that I have already gone on record to say that I am in this for a one-format future, and that I chose Blu-ray because I felt that it had the best chance. If HD DVD made strides and became the big contender, I would switch in a heartbeat. So there's no reason to turn my question around on me -- I've already answered it multiple times.

 

[captive]

I have never read ANYTHING in this thread that indicated that the standalone player race was close. Now, though, we find out the Blu-ray players have started outselling HD DVD players and suddenly it was always a close race and we're retarded for pointing out that HD DVD has no ground left to turn to?

What sense does this make? This was the horn that HD DVD supporters were blowing for months. "Standalones are what counts, and HD DVD standalones are outselling Blu-ray standalones... standalones sell software, PS3s do not... price is what's going to win this war, not content or the PlayStation 3..." So what is the claim now? Are supporters going to back even further into a corner and cling to the last remaining bastion of hope: the fact that the HD DVD standalone player total install base is currently larger than Blu-ray players?

I also want to add that while I was taking a break from this thread, the claim that exclusive studios had "evened out" was made by quite a few people. Can I get a lol? Someone please tell me exactly when Universal plus Paramount minus Spielberg's films somehow became the equivalent of Sony plus Disney plus Fox. I guess I'm going to be waiting a long time for the answer to that question because I seriously doubt anyone is going to have the balls to admit that it's still heavily weighted toward Blu-ray content-wise.

So this is the question I pose to HD DVD supporters right now. What exactly are you going to do when Blu-ray standalone player install base, LTD, is larger than HD DVD's? (If it makes you feel more comfortable, feel free to read that "when" as an "if.") What will be the argument, what will be the defense? Are you going to admit defeat? Or will there be more excuses? I am not asking this in a condescending manner, I'm am genuinely inquiring. Are you guys going to suck it up and go Blu-ray, or are you going to quit high def media altogether because the "evil empire" Sony got its way for once?

-- Edit --

I would like to reiterate that I have already gone on record to say that I am in this for a one-format future, and that I chose Blu-ray because I felt that it had the best chance. If HD DVD made strides and became the big contender, I would switch in a heartbeat. So there's no reason to turn my question around on me -- I've already answered it multiple times.

If i gave a damn i would read back a few mere days of this thread where several hd dvd posters said "warner is going to care more about the standalone sales than how much they are selling because of the ps3" Or the more traditional one "hd dvd owns the standalone market and especially now that the price is so much cheaper they will continue to outsell blu-ray standalone"
Funny how the argument about standalones has now changed...

 

[BoboBrazil]

Toshiba just keeps funneling money into hd-dvd to succeed just so they can get royalties on the discs right? So now the only thing hd-dvd can say is that overall this year they sold more standalones...What happens in a few months when that is reversed and the interactive content is on blu-ray discs too? What else can hd-dvd supporters use to support this format? That it is cheaper to manufacture, which means nothing to me the consumer?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I'm sure the dark cauldrons of AVS Forum are brewing up a new batch of pro-HD-DVD talking points right now...

 

[Oni Jazar]

I have never read ANYTHING in this thread that indicated that the standalone player race was close. Now, though, we find out the Blu-ray players have started outselling HD DVD players and suddenly it was always a close race and we're retarded for pointing out that HD DVD has no ground left to turn to?

What sense does this make? This was the horn that HD DVD supporters were blowing for months. "Standalones are what counts, and HD DVD standalones are outselling Blu-ray standalones... standalones sell software, PS3s do not... price is what's going to win this war, not content or the PlayStation 3..." So what is the claim now? Are supporters going to back even further into a corner and cling to the last remaining bastion of hope: the fact that the HD DVD standalone player total install base is currently larger than Blu-ray players?

I also want to add that while I was taking a break from this thread, the claim that exclusive studios had "evened out" was made by quite a few people. Can I get a lol? Someone please tell me exactly when Universal plus Paramount minus Spielberg's films somehow became the equivalent of Sony plus Disney plus Fox. I guess I'm going to be waiting a long time for the answer to that question because I seriously doubt anyone is going to have the balls to admit that it's still heavily weighted toward Blu-ray content-wise.

So this is the question I pose to HD DVD supporters right now. What exactly are you going to do when Blu-ray standalone player install base, LTD, is larger than HD DVD's? (If it makes you feel more comfortable, feel free to read that "when" as an "if.") What will be the argument, what will be the defense? Are you going to admit defeat? Or will there be more excuses? I am not asking this in a condescending manner, I'm am genuinely inquiring. Are you guys going to suck it up and go Blu-ray, or are you going to quit high def media altogether because the "evil empire" Sony got its way for once?

-- Edit --

I would like to reiterate that I have already gone on record to say that I am in this for a one-format future, and that I chose Blu-ray because I felt that it had the best chance. If HD DVD made strides and became the big contender, I would switch in a heartbeat. So there's no reason to turn my question around on me -- I've already answered it multiple times.

Great post. I know there's an ignore list but there should be a buddy list. We're 100% on the same wavelength.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Great post. I know there's an ignore list but there should be a buddy list. We're 100% on the same wavelength.

Me too. That's why I was stunned when there was a denial of the presumed big advantage of HD-DVD.

 

[adamsappel]

Is Barry Lyndon not coming out on Blu? That film is like watching a painting sometimes

If you mean like watching paint dry, yes, it is.

 

[VanMardigan]

As far as not having evidence ... my recollection (along with everyone here) is that HD DVD standalone sales where higher at the beginning of the year ... and have generally trended downwards in margin over BD.

If you have info that shows this to be incorrect ... fine ... I would just like to see it since the consensus here is that everyone thought things played out differently.

I see, so you had no evidence, you were going on recollection, yet when I put forward my points, I was being obtuse because it didn't jive with whatever inference you were making although you never had any hard data?

I guess that's as close as I'll get to you plain admitting that you shouldn't have talked smack because you really didn't have anything to go on except hearsay.

As for the chart, FFobsessed had posted it a few pages back (it was a weekly hardware Sony chart from cedia), and it was even discussed then, when I corrected FF because he didn't realize it was a weekly chart, not a SI chart. I believe the chart was eventually pulled, leaving the software chart. Either way, I saved it to my pc and I'll upload it, perhaps, if I damn well feel like. After all, if you can debate with me and berate me for like 5 pages without any damn data to back up your arguments, what difference does it make.

As far as content, I already told you what it shows. And as far as the prevailing thought here that it doesn't matter what the data was, it just matters what we THOUGHT at the time, I say LOL to that. Even if you THOUGHT BR standalones were trending upward all year while HD DVD was trending downward all year, and argued that for months on end, it doesn't make a lick of difference if it wasn't true.

 

[VanMardigan]

MOVING ON:

Samsung Lowers Price on Upcoming Dual-Format HD DVD, Blu-ray Player

It only seemed like a matter of time before Samsung would lower the MSRP of its upcoming BD-UP5000 Duo HD player to match LG's recently-announced price-cut for their dual format player.

Samsung now says its BD-UP5000 will hit stores sometime in the fourth quarter at a $999 street price -- down $50 from its previously announced MSRP of $1,049.

The price drop is the latest in a series of tit for tat pricing moves between Samsung and LG, who are both marketing dual-format players for the upcoming holiday season.

Samsung made the first move in July, when it announced that its BDP-UP5000 would hit the market priced at $1,049 -- $150 less than LG's BH100 (which had been priced at $1,199 since its launch earlier this year). LG responded in August by announcing its own $200 price drop for the BH100, and now things have come circle with Samsung matching LG's $999 price.

Earlier this week, LG announced a 2nd-Gen dual format player -- the BH200 -- which also carries the $999 pricetag.

Of course, even at $999, all three players remain more expensive than buying two separate standalone players (Toshiba's HD-A2 and Sony's BDP-S300 currently retail at a combined cost of $898), but with the holidays just around the corner, perhaps yet another dual-format player price drop is in our future. Stay tuned...

 

[MechDX]

also want to add that while I was taking a break from this thread, the claim that exclusive studios had "evened out" was made by quite a few people. Can I get a lol? Someone please tell me exactly when Universal plus Paramount minus Spielberg's films somehow became the equivalent of Sony plus Disney plus Fox. I guess I'm going to be waiting a long time for the answer to that question because I seriously doubt anyone is going to have the balls to admit that it's still heavily weighted toward Blu-ray content-wise

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

Universal keeps pumping movies out and Paramount is showing they will do the same. Right now Sony and to a lesser extent, Warner, are providing all the BR heavy hitters. Other than the two Pirate movies of course.

 

[Raistlin]

I see, so you had no evidence, you were going on recollection, yet when I put forward my points, I was being obtuse because it didn't jive with whatever inference you were making although you never had any hard data?

This thread is hundreds of pages long ... sorry I can't magically find month-to-month standalone sales info off the top of my head.

It's interesting though ... there is this prevailing sentiment that HD-DVD standalone players have consistently outsold BD ... and that previously it was by a significant margin. Everyone here seems to recall this info, in large part because we recall reading it here.

I guess that's as close as I'll get to you plain admitting that you shouldn't have talked smack because you really didn't have anything to go on except hearsay.

Considering you have done nothing to prove your case, I'm not admitting shit. If you are correct and prove it ... I'll be more than happy to admit it ... as will everyone else here who seems to recall the same thing.

Something's fishy here ... either we all have terrible memories ... or the prevailing sentiment was actually a bunch of FUD created by HD DVD fans.

As for the chart, FFobsessed had posted it a few pages back (it was a weekly hardware Sony chart from cedia), and it was even discussed then, when I corrected FF because he didn't realize it was a weekly chart, not a SI chart. I believe the chart was eventually pulled, leaving the software chart. Either way, I saved it to my pc and I'll upload it, perhaps, if I damn well feel like. After all, if you can debate with me and berate me for like 5 pages without any damn data to back up your arguments, what difference does it make.

Isn't that convenient.

So ... the reason I never saw the chart you keep referring to is that it was pulled ... yet you kept insinuating I should go look it up myself.

And now, you won't post it ... because I 'berated' you?

1) Quit being a martyr

2) End this shit by posting it

3) Since there is no chart from my perspective (I have never seen it, and no one else is siding with you) ... you are just as devoid of 'evidence' as I am. However, I recall general sales info from this year, and everyone else seems to recall similar data.

Yet somehow ... that makes me the asshole?

As far as content, I already told you what it shows. And as far as the prevailing thought here that it doesn't matter what the data was, it just matters what we THOUGHT at the time, I say LOL to that. Even if you THOUGHT BR standalones were trending upward all year while HD DVD was trending downward all year, and argued that for months on end, it doesn't make a lick of difference if it wasn't true.

Really? No crap.


THAT'S THE POINT!!!


You can change what has been a prevailing sentiment here for many, many months ... all you have to do is post the damn chart.

Did you ever consider that all the people that have been posting in this threads for months would like to know what the real sales info is?

 

[Raistlin]

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

Universal keeps pumping movies out and Paramount is showing they will do the same. Right now Sony and to a lesser extent, Warner, are providing all the BR heavy hitters. Other than the two Pirate movies of course.

You may want to look at the release list of Fox movies for the rest of the year

 

[KZObsessed]

You may want to look at the release list of Fox movies for the rest of the year

And Disney...

 

[Chemo]

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

Universal keeps pumping movies out and Paramount is showing they will do the same. Right now Sony and to a lesser extent, Warner, are providing all the BR heavy hitters. Other than the two Pirate movies of course.

Uhh? Fox just announced 29 Blu-ray releases for Q4 2007.

And dude. Pirates is a Disney property.

 

[VanMardigan]

Nobody's been lying, on either side. Toshiba claimed leadership after their April price drop, and they were right. Sony claims recent standalone sales advantage, and they're right.

The only people that are wrong are the people who think the year started in April and that this is the first time BD standalones have surpassed HD DVD standalones for the year.

edit:

Yeah, I was looking at the October Blu Ray releases, and Fox is really BRINGING IT. They're back with a vengeance on Blu, no pun intended.

 

[KZObsessed]

Are you guys arguing about this graph?

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to what you were discussing.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

Great post. I know there's an ignore list but there should be a buddy list. We're 100% on the same wavelength.

too bad it doesn't do anything.

Spoiler

yes I know I'm supposed to be not posting but I saw this.

 

[Wulfer]

You may want to look at the release list of Fox movies for the rest of the year

You may want to check out the price for those Fox movies. They didn't magically drop in price either. :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

If it's the weekly hardware chart that you posted earlier in the thread........then yep. That's the one that onyx now says "mysteriously" disappeared. :lol

Wrong again, uh onyx, you're making it a habit.

 

[OokieSpookie]

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

Universal keeps pumping movies out and Paramount is showing they will do the same. Right now Sony and to a lesser extent, Warner, are providing all the BR heavy hitters. Other than the two Pirate movies of course.

Fox is bringing it just look at the list, Starz is bringing it, and Disney have made quite a few announcements.
On top of that I would say that you could add up a good chunk of the HD exclusives for the year and they still wouldn't beat Pirates 1/2/3, Ratatouille or even Cars.
Seriously that has to be one of the most ignorant posts on the last 15 pages or so.

 

[OokieSpookie]

You may want to check out the price for those Fox movies. They did magically drop in price either. :lol

HAHAHAHA a PRICE joke HAHAHAHAHAHA and they are STILL outselling HD-DVD HAHAHAHAHA and will outsell the rest of the year HAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[MechDX]

Uhh? Fox just announced 29 Blu-ray releases for Q4 2007.

And dude. Pirates is a Disney property.

....sigh......

I said releases up to this point for a reason.

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

"They" as in Disney and Fox.

As for the Fox Q4 releases, go back and read what I said:

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

I have little faith in Fox up to this point. At least Fox is more supportive than Disney.

Just for the record: I just received both Pirates movies and Hellboy on BD yesterday from Amazon.

 

[djkimothy]

In honestly because Fox promised a huge patch of movies a year ago and how many have surfaced? Same with Disney. Other than the Pirates movies and Xmen 3 what else have they released?

Universal keeps pumping movies out and Paramount is showing they will do the same. Right now Sony and to a lesser extent, Warner, are providing all the BR heavy hitters. Other than the two Pirate movies of course.

I know Disney/Buena Vista released...

-Gone in 60 seconds
-The Queen
-Deja Vu
-Apocalypto
-Invincible
-Chicken Little
-Bridge to Tarabithia
-The Prestige
Off the top of my head

Fox:
-Xmen 3
-Night at the museum
-Stealth
-Kingdom of Heaven: Director's Cut

etc...
-Fantastic Four

 

[Raistlin]

Are you guys arguing about this graph?

Sorry I wasn't paying attention to what you were discussing.

Ain't showing up ... you need to be a member of the site.


If you don't mind, can you rehost?

You may want to check out the price for those Fox movies. They did magically drop in price either. :lol

And that has what to do with anything?

 

[VanMardigan]

So, onyx, did you click through to the chart still??

If you are correct and prove it ... I'll be more than happy to admit it ... as will everyone else here who seems to recall the same thing.

I'll be waiting patiently.

 

[Raistlin]

If it's the weekly hardware chart that you posted earlier in the thread........then yep. That's the one that onyx now says "mysteriously" disappeared. :lol

Wrong again, uh onyx, you're making it a habit.

What in the hell are you talking about.


YOU'RE THE ONE THAT TOLD ME IT WAS PULLED


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

As for the chart, FFobsessed had posted it a few pages back (it was a weekly hardware Sony chart from cedia), and it was even discussed then, when I corrected FF because he didn't realize it was a weekly chart, not a SI chart. I believe the chart was eventually pulled, leaving the software chart. Either way, I saved it to my pc and I'll upload it, perhaps, if I damn well feel like. After all, if you can debate with me and berate me for like 5 pages without any damn data to back up your arguments, what difference does it make.

Spoiler

And again ... somehow I'm the one berating you? You are one of the most condescending posters here. At least most other posters that are equally condescending can take a punch as well

Edit: Granted, I inadvertently started it

 

[VanMardigan]

What in the hell are you talking about.


YOU'RE THE ONE THAT TOLD ME IT WAS PULLED


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Spoiler

And again ... somehow I'm the one berating you? You are one of the most condescending posters here. At least most other posters that are equally condescending can take a punch as well

so pulled all of a sudden equals "mysteriously disappeared"????? :lol :lol :lol

Man up, I posted the damn chart. If you give me time, I think I can produce the actual unit sales. Now wouldn't THAT be awesome??

 

[djkimothy]

I'm surprised how lively this thread is on a Friday night. :lol

 

[VanMardigan]

I even went to church and came back. It's going to get a lot more fun, once we can cut through the spin on both sides with ACTUAL SALES.

 

[KZObsessed]

^^ That brings up a good point, do we actually have any hard figures of hardware sales recently, or is it all %?

EDIT: I found this: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070611/aqm077.html?.v=9

June 11th Toshiba says they have 60% of the Standalone market with 150,000

 

[djkimothy]

I even went to church and came back. It's going to get a lot more fun, once we can cut through the spin on both sides with ACTUAL SALES.

hardware sales i guess? noone cares for my software charts?

 

[VanMardigan]

I MAY be able to get actual hardware units. I'm still trying to confirm whether the chart is real, what the conversion for the chart needs to be, etc.

edit:
djkimothy, I care, I even commented on your pretty blue pac mans

 

[Raistlin]

so pulled all of a sudden equals "mysteriously disappeared"????? :lol :lol :lol

Well ... look at it from everyone's perspective here.

You followed up saying it was pulled with

I'll upload it, perhaps, if I damn well feel like. After all, if you can debate with me and berate me for like 5 pages without any damn data to back up your arguments, what difference does it make.

Hardly a good way make your argument sound convincing.

Man up, I posted the damn chart. If you give me time, I think I can produce the actual unit sales. Now wouldn't THAT be awesome??

Finally ... you posted it ... and there was much rejoicing. :lol

Was that so hard?



I'll admit we were wrong. However, if you are looking for an apology ... you may want to consider one as well.

Given what everyone here understood to be fact (as incorrect as it was) ... the fact that most people here didn't see the graph since it was pulled ... and your entire attitude since this argument started ... well ... I'm not feeling especially apologetic at the moment.

You could have ended this pages ago. You openly state there was '5 pages of berating' ... but showed no evidence of your point. Basically no one here saw the chart before it was pulled ... and everyone was of the mind that your statement was in fact incorrect.

I don't know if it is intentional or what, but you seem to have a real problem with being evasive when posting.