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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
- Thread starter HyperionX
- Start date
- Status
I got the Dave Matthews & Tim Reynolds concert on Blu-ray and have been watching it over the weekend. Holy shit it sounds amazing. Anyone who thinks that lossless audio isn't needed should buy this disc and slap themselves in the face with it. For anyone who is a fan of Dave or Tim this is a must buy.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Anyplace you can get an HDMI cable at retail at non-rape prices?
Edit: Just looked at Target.com... the two slightly reasonable HDMI cables ($25 and $15-- not all that reasonable, but not rape) and neither is available in-store, online only. I bet the Monster $199 HDMI cable is available in store, though.
HDMI cables are the most obscene case of price gouguing I've seen this side of memory from Apple.
Edit: Just looked at Target.com... the two slightly reasonable HDMI cables ($25 and $15-- not all that reasonable, but not rape) and neither is available in-store, online only. I bet the Monster $199 HDMI cable is available in store, though.
HDMI cables are the most obscene case of price gouguing I've seen this side of memory from Apple.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Yeah, my buddy (who this is for) ordered one online, but if I could find one around $20 retail I was just going to get it for him so he could have instant gratification today. He bought an HDTV yesterday and only has SD signal on it now-- hideous.
Edit: Maybe I'll get him a PS3 component cable to tide him over for a few days.
Edit: Maybe I'll get him a PS3 component cable to tide him over for a few days.
Christoff Yurievich
Member
you are a funny, funny guy. if Cd's are lossless, what are SACD and DVD-Audio?pswii60 said:
as an aside, Sony loves being the spoilsport:
The Main Event
Member
Oni Jazar said:
Those are the ones that I'm interested in. Of course missing from that list is The Bourne Ultimatum, which is my most anticipated release of the year. And I just hope Weinstein announces something for the remainder of the year (neutral releases or not). I want Death Proof and especially Planet Terror in high-def for the holiday season, along with Kill Bill: The Whole Bloody Affair. And there will be surely unannounced Warner/New Line movies to be unveiled soon.
Damn, this whole HD format thing is ruining me.
chaostrophy
Member
bune duggy said:
They're higher resolution, and more channels. CD audio is not compressed, so it can't be "lossy".
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Dot50Cal said:
Higher sample rate.
And more channels, ie, 2 (stereo) vs 5 or more.
NekoFever
Member
For one, they can raise the sampling rate:Dot50Cal said:
CD = 44.1kHz
DVD-Audio = up to 192kHz (stereo)/96kHz (multichannel)
DVD-A also supports 24-bit audio (versus 16-bit for CD). You're right that CD is uncompressed, but that doesn't mean that it's a completely accurate recording by nature of the fact that it's digital.
I'm not sure about the specs for SACD but I'm sure someone here will know.
Don't you need a really high end amplifier and speakers to even tell the difference? At that point I would think that especially the quality of the speakers would have a much higher impact before sampling rate etc become a factorl. I always though that these were just bullet point features.Oni Jazar said:
It's even incredibly hard to tell the difference between 128k mp3 and cd on top of the line equipment for most people.
chaostrophy
Member
Dot50Cal said:
Two ways, raise the bit depth, or the sample rate. Bit depth is the number of bits alloted to each sample, sample rate is the number of samples per second of audio, on each channel CDs are 16bit, 44.1kHz, 2 channel. That means that on a CD, each of the 2 channels contains 44,100 samples per second, and each sample can have 65536 (or 2^16) possible values. Not sure about DVD Audio and SACD, but pro audio equipment can record and play back at 24bit, 192kHz.
Remember, most sound is analog in origin. When anything is recorded by a microphone, it starts as an an analog signal, a waveform defined by changes in electrical voltage. However, at some point between the microphone and the audience's ears, the signal is almost always converted to digital, for many varied reasons. This is done by a device called a digital to analog converter. It works by taking samples of the analog sound at set intervals. If one is recording at, say, 16bit/44.1kHz, every 1/44,100th of a second it generates a 16bit number based on the strength of the incoming voltage at that instant. All converted digital sound is an approximation of the analog source. Higher resolution sound files are basically better approximations.
elostyle said:
You need decent equipment but nothing super crazy. On the BD disc you can switch between PCM 2.0, Dolby TrueHD 5.1 and DD5.1. The difference between the first two and the last option is extremely striking on my lower end Panasonic XR-57 receiver & Athena Micra speakers.
Cosmic Bus
pristine morning snow
Warner just added an excellent line-up of classics for HD-DVD to their website:
Bonnie and Clyde
The Cincinnati Kid
Clash of the Titans
Cool Hand Luke
Dirty Harry series
The Goonies
Mutiny on the Bounty (1935)
The Omega Man
Poltergeist
That's Entertainment (Trilogy set also available)
The Wizard of Oz
Along with some modern films:
The Aviator
Batman (1989)
Falling Down
Gods & Generals
The Green Mile
Harry Potter 1 - 5 (individual and boxset)
Heat
L.A. Confidential
Natural Born Killers
Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves
Shawshank Redemption
Twister
There are also listings for several Superman, Justice League and Batman cartoon titles.
Many of them are also listed for Blu-Ray, but not all of them.
Bonnie and Clyde
The Cincinnati Kid
Clash of the Titans
Cool Hand Luke
Dirty Harry series
The Goonies
Mutiny on the Bounty (1935)
The Omega Man
Poltergeist
That's Entertainment (Trilogy set also available)
The Wizard of Oz
Along with some modern films:
The Aviator
Batman (1989)
Falling Down
Gods & Generals
The Green Mile
Harry Potter 1 - 5 (individual and boxset)
Heat
L.A. Confidential
Natural Born Killers
Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves
Shawshank Redemption
Twister
There are also listings for several Superman, Justice League and Batman cartoon titles.
Many of them are also listed for Blu-Ray, but not all of them.
The Main Event
Member
I'd re-buy the first two Batmans in HD in a heartbeat.
uncompressed doesnt mean lossless.
cd - lossy but uncompressed.
dd5.1 - compressed and lossy (but better quality than a cd)
pcm audio on brd = uncompressed and lossless.
truehd/dtsma = compressed but lossless.
compressed v uncompressed has little to do wiyh audio quality unless the compression sucks
cd - lossy but uncompressed.
dd5.1 - compressed and lossy (but better quality than a cd)
pcm audio on brd = uncompressed and lossless.
truehd/dtsma = compressed but lossless.
compressed v uncompressed has little to do wiyh audio quality unless the compression sucks
Hotarubi said:
No release dates for these though, right? I don't trust that site (and hope it's not accurate as I want Heat and Shawshank and those aren't listed for BD).
I was going to order 10000BC on BD but it was $80, so I decided to make the jump to HDDVD and pick up "New Format Test" for $23.
DarkJediKnight
Member
CDs are not lossless because the recording master tracks are at a much higher audio resolution than what CDs can offer.
On the other hand, movie soundtracks are almost always 48/24bit.
On the other hand, movie soundtracks are almost always 48/24bit.
The term lossy is getting some serious abuse here.
Lossy has a fairly specific technical meaning. It does not mean 'low resolution'. It means an encoding that can be re-encoded and come out without a loss of information on the second pass. PCM gets a free pass on this, regardless of resolution, because it is the defacto digital standard for storing audio data, just like a bitmap gets a free pass for images.
By the standard of 'lossy' some people are using here, there are NO lossless encodings of ANY sort of data in existence. None of them capture the absolute entirety of an analog signal.
Please please stop confusing resolution with lossyness. CDs, SACD, and DVD-A are all at least capable of being lossless, they just have different resolutions.
Lossy has a fairly specific technical meaning. It does not mean 'low resolution'. It means an encoding that can be re-encoded and come out without a loss of information on the second pass. PCM gets a free pass on this, regardless of resolution, because it is the defacto digital standard for storing audio data, just like a bitmap gets a free pass for images.
By the standard of 'lossy' some people are using here, there are NO lossless encodings of ANY sort of data in existence. None of them capture the absolute entirety of an analog signal.
Please please stop confusing resolution with lossyness. CDs, SACD, and DVD-A are all at least capable of being lossless, they just have different resolutions.
They are lossless in the same sense that any uncompressed full frame video is lossless, be it a 160x120 or 1920x1080 video.DarkJediKnight said:
Lossless compression is defined by the result of applying the compression and decompression algorithm being exactly the same as the original input. The term has no relation to analogue signals.
The confusion probably comes from CDs not having any compression at all thus the term lossless is misleading.
NekoFever
Member
Wizard of Oz? Shawshank? Individual Harry Potters? Batman? Heat?
I love you, Warner.
I was looking at DVDs in a store yesterday and realised that I haven't heard anything about Universal putting out Back to the Future on HD DVD. Have they made any noises towards that? I remember the DVDs coming out was like a major event because it had been one of the DVD holy grails (along with Star Wars and Indiana Jones) for so long.
I love you, Warner.
I was looking at DVDs in a store yesterday and realised that I haven't heard anything about Universal putting out Back to the Future on HD DVD. Have they made any noises towards that? I remember the DVDs coming out was like a major event because it had been one of the DVD holy grails (along with Star Wars and Indiana Jones) for so long.
Crayon Shinchan
Aquafina Fanboy
So there's digital loss, and then there's the analog loss which people are getting confused over.
Even in the recording booth, they'll be loss from the medium transmitting the sound... air.
But hey, good enough is good enough.
Even in the recording booth, they'll be loss from the medium transmitting the sound... air.
But hey, good enough is good enough.
plagiarize
Banned
it's not a misleading term, it's just been over marketed. people think lossless = better because they've been marketed to believe so... the same way that people thought (or no doubt still think) that widescreen = more picture.elostyle said:
it's misunderstood, but it's an accurate term.
bit depth and sample rate (and more channels) are the main places better sound comes from. no compression or lossless compression just preserve more of that than lossy compression. as for the lossy compression, well, it depends on how agressive it is.
it's not at all uncommon to find something lossily compressed from a higher bit depth sounding better than something losslessly compressed from a lower bit depth.
warner... i'll take a poltergeist and a natural born killers (if you give me the uncut version and some nice extras).
universal... i'll take tremors.
paramount... you've got nothing.
starz... i'll take halloween, dawn of the dead, day of the dead, evil dead 2 and masters of horror volume one (witchhouse and cigerette burns were easily the best of season one imho)
sony... man i don't like much from sony pictures.
mgm... robocop if it's uncut and stacked with extras, amityville if it's a great transfer with some interesting documentaries about the controversy surrounding the supposed true story... release some more shagging Bond films already would you?
fox... The Fly, both 28 Laters, good to see you back. hurry up and release the Alien and Predator movies already.
lionsgate... can't believe you've got nothing i want.
disney... maybe some of the pixar stuff if it's stacked.
anyways... unsurprisingly to me, Starz going blue (and Tartan too actually, not that they're agressively coming to market) has definately given Blu-Ray the *horror* movie advantage.
no self confessed card carrying horror fan can look at Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead, Halloween and Evil Dead 2 on one format and ignore it. knowing Starz's library pretty well, while universal do have some killer horror titles, and paramount are sat on most of the Friday the Thirteenths, that isn't going to over power the reanimators, the phantasms, the hellraisers, and on and on.
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
OMG.. SONY MONEYHATTED TARGET.
They are evil. Its not fair. Woe is me. Consumers should decide who wins, not corporations, etc etc. My mother bought a cassette tape and it didnt work in the 8 track player.
Interesting news on WB, if they went HDDVD or BRD it would be a huge blow/boost to the formats... if BRD got them on their side, it would cut HDDVD releases almost in half. if HDDVD got it, the studio support would be essentially be dead even between the two formats...
They are evil. Its not fair. Woe is me. Consumers should decide who wins, not corporations, etc etc. My mother bought a cassette tape and it didnt work in the 8 track player.
Interesting news on WB, if they went HDDVD or BRD it would be a huge blow/boost to the formats... if BRD got them on their side, it would cut HDDVD releases almost in half. if HDDVD got it, the studio support would be essentially be dead even between the two formats...
OokieSpookie
Banned
VanMardigan said:
Why do you post useless shit like that.
"someone heard" "rumored by people that are unknown".
You were doing so well too....
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Not a lot of new news there-- it firms up the comments about Target that Graffeo made, but that's hardly surprising. And anybody who didn't thint WB was being heaviliy courted hasn't been watching!
I guess Wal*Mart considering going Blu is the biggest tidbit.
I guess Wal*Mart considering going Blu is the biggest tidbit.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
A couple of things:
1) :lol at Enderle being quoted.
2) My buddy just got a 40" Bravia and hell yes you can see the difference between SD and HD at under 42". Very, very clearly, no eye test about it.
1) :lol at Enderle being quoted.
2) My buddy just got a 40" Bravia and hell yes you can see the difference between SD and HD at under 42". Very, very clearly, no eye test about it.
Sorry i would rather talk about lossless audio than who sucked off who to get their loyalty in this retarded format warVanMardigan said:
I dont think any reasonable person disputes this. Watching blu-rays on even a 32 inch screen is a marked difference over standard def.
Its just the people who for whatever reason come in and say SD -> HD isnt any difference that think this.
OokieSpookie
Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Saying warner is being courted heavily is like me blogging "I have it on good authority that the sun will rise tomorrow and in an easterly direction!!!"
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
OokieSpookie said:
So I have to post whatever the hell you approve?? Whatever, if you don't want to discuss that stuff, then don't, but don't tell me what I can and can't post here. This thread has always had heavy doses of speculation, and I didn't see your outrage at folks speculating that TL51 discs wouldn't work on current HD DVD players. So either quit selectively dismissing speculative posts or don't comment. Don't act like you're the gatekeeper now to this thread where you decide what can and can't be posted.
And yeah, I thought the Walmart comment was very, very interesting. I had no indication they were leaning blue.
edit:
I also agree that you can tell the difference between HD and SD on a smaller screen. I owned a 30" CRT until recently and I could EASILY tell the difference. Of course, I sat relatively close. Also, the difference is much, much more pronounced on larger sets. On my 57" set, dvd and HD DVD is a night and day difference, whereas the difference wasn't nearly as evident on the 30" set. HD really shines on bigger sets.
BishopLamont
Banned
Source and full article at http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,136977/article.html
Sorry if this has been posted, but I don't want to read through all those pages. HD battle is getting interesting.
Forsete
Member
Based on my BD-collection of 17 movies.
Sony Pictures 6 35,3%
Warner Bros. 4 23,5%
Disney/Buena Vista 3 17,6%
FOX 1 5,9%
BBC 1 5,9%
Focus 1 5,9%
Lionsgate 1 5,9%
By the end of the year; ~30 movies.
Sony Pictures 9 30%
Disney/Buena Vista 7 23,3%
Warner 5 16,7%
FOX 4 13,3%
MGM 2 6,7%
BBC 1 3,3%
Focus 1 3,3%
Lionsgate 1 3,3%
Sony Pictures 6 35,3%
Warner Bros. 4 23,5%
Disney/Buena Vista 3 17,6%
FOX 1 5,9%
BBC 1 5,9%
Focus 1 5,9%
Lionsgate 1 5,9%
By the end of the year; ~30 movies.
Sony Pictures 9 30%
Disney/Buena Vista 7 23,3%
Warner 5 16,7%
FOX 4 13,3%
MGM 2 6,7%
BBC 1 3,3%
Focus 1 3,3%
Lionsgate 1 3,3%
VanMardigan
has calmed down a bit.
Let me see if I recall enough to do the numbers on my collection:
Universal - 5
Warner - 6
Paramount -3
BBC -1
Universal - 5
Warner - 6
Paramount -3
BBC -1
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