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[Oni Jazar]

It looks like New Line isn't so much like their sister company Warner Brothers after all. They are releasing Hairspray on Blu-ray with PIP.

New Line has announced that they will be bringing the remake of the musical 'Hairspray' to Blu-ray on November 20th. Extras will include a new musical number, the documentary "You Can't Stop the Beat", a "Hairspray Extensions" featurette, audio commentaries and deleted scenes. The Blu-ray release will also feature a "Behind the Beat" picture-in-picture experience.

Update: According to an article at Home Media Magazine, most New Line releases, including this one, will be HD exclusive to Blu-ray for a limited time due to regional coding issues with the HD DVD format (HD DVD has no regional coding).

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=498

Shame that WB can't do the same thing for their BD titles like Harry Potter.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

So, they are holding back HDDVD so that the people who own the rights to the movie in other countires dont get screwed by HDDVD owners importing the film instead of buying it locally.

So, region free backfires.. Still an even trade off IMO.

It only affects new releases with specific distribution details. Unless you are the impatient type, this does not seem like a big deal to me.


Edit: The real backfire was losing Disney support over it.

 

[StoOgE]

That's the thing that's perplexing. What was the design decision? We will never know why they would opt for such a soundtrack.

This is the third time Im typing this thanks to queu jumpers get dumped message deleting my post... ugg.

anyway. you have to remember the HDDVD standard says that TrueHD has to be decoded to 2.0 lossless PCM, anything else is optional (right now all HDMI players send it as 5.1PCM). So, if TrueHD is the only surround soundtrack, its possible some future HDDVD player will only output it as stereo sound. This means that you have to include a DD5.1 soundtrack, or DTS-MA (which has a core track in it) or DD+ (all players have to transcode the DD+ E-AC3 codec into the DD5.1 AC3 codec and output as a bitstream).

So, the choice isnt DD+ or True HD. Its DD+ and True HD.

This lead to several studios deciding that DD+ is "good enough" including Universal and Paramount. Their assessment that this is good enough is because the E-AC3 codec used for DD+ is a huge improvement over the AC3 codec used in DD5.1 on DVD's. Its nearly twice as efficient, meaning a 1.5MB DD+ encode is equivelent to a 3MB DD5.1 encode from a DVD.. and given that DVDs only had 480kb bitrate on the soundtrack, its a massive improvement in quality.

On top of this improvement in efficiency, there are other improvements:

Transient pre-noise processing – to reduce "pre-noise" artifacts before sharp transients.
Enhanced channel coupling – which maintains phase relationships between channels, and improves performance of matrix decoders.

Essentially DD+ at 1.5MBs >>>>>>>> DD5.1 at 480kbs.

So, since Uni and Paramount (and WB) have to make this DD+ soundtrack anyway they didnt see the need to take the extra step to give it lossless audio as well (WB had a DD+ soundtrack on its movies, but obviously has opted for lossless as well). Uni and Paramount are changing this position now, but its going to take a while.

The jump from DVD audio to DD+ on HDDVD is much greater than the jump from DD+ to True HD.. which is what ultimitely led to the "shortcuts" being taken by some studios.

 

[VanMardigan]

Edit: The real backfire was losing Disney support over it.

I doubt this was the real reason (or at least as much a reason as the ones Paramount gave when dumping Blu Ray).

from Amir:

Disney is a board member of AACS, the very group which decided against taking on region coding. Nothing in their decision to adopt BD format had anything to do with region coding.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Amir's assertion does not mean much to me. Being a member of that board doesn't mean they voted for it, and Amir is not a trustworthy source to speak on Disney's motives.

Anyway, I'm not sure that's why Disney went Blu, but it's a reasonable one for them.

 

[VanMardigan]

Amir's assertion does not mean much to me. Being a member of that board doesn't mean they voted for it, and Amir is not a trustworthy source to speak on Disney's motives.

Anyway, I'm not sure that's why Disney went Blu, but it's a reasonable one for them.

I knew you couldn't put me on ignore. :lol

And I think Amir is an excellent source, since he worked with both sides while MS was format neutral, and specifically worked with Disney on HDi. It seems that Disney's main beef with HD DVD was (and I guess still is) the disc size. Amir admits this. Disney asked for region coding on HD DVD after the fact (just recently, actually), but it was not a condition for them joining the BDA.

Apparently the factors for Disney were disc size and the Ps3. And of course, whatever "considerations" Sony offered (we know of disc subsidization and encoding assistance, at least).

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

When every other post for a while is vlocked, it gets annoying.

That seems plausible. From the way you worded it, you made it sound liek Amir was suggesting it was all moneyhet-- which even if it was, I wouldn't take Amir's word for it.

As far as the resion thing-- teaches me to trust Manabyte.

 

[StoOgE]

Apparently the factors for Disney were disc size and the Ps3. And of course, whatever "considerations" Sony offered (we know of disc subsidization and encoding assistance, at least).

They are also the ones that refused to answer the question about confirming they never recieved incentives.. Im very sure they are getting something (perhaps the Paramount deal where Sony was essentially doing the disc authoring for them).

Of the BRD studios Disney is the one that is closest to HDDVD since they are still a member of that group, still attend meetings and have requested changes to the format.. it doesnt mean that they will ever go HDDVD, but it means they are the most likely candidate for a moneyhat of some sort of the 3 as well.

Fox thanks to BR+ and region coding is a strong backer of BRD and Columbia is obviously never going HDDVD unless BRD just falls off the face of the planet (unlikely).

If Amir is correct (who knows).. I wonder if the 51gb TRD is some sort of attempt to try and remove one less barrier to potential disney support (once again, Im not saying that is happening, just pure speculation and it makes sense HDDVD group would try and apease them even if it is in vain).

 

[VanMardigan]

David Vaughn again:

I have done some checking on this with my industry sources and I have been told that the TL51 discs are compatable with all players out on the market. They ran into some issues with the 45 GB version of the discs, but by changing the angle of the laser, they solved the issues they were having and increased the disc capacity at the same time. This information is for only one source though, but I trust him.

 

[Forsete]

I wonder if the BDA will announce a 75GB disc and just release a movie for the hell of it just so they can have the talk point back. :lol

Has a bigger-than 50GB BD disc been approved yet?

 

[Oni Jazar]

David Vaughn again:

That name seems to come up a lot lately it seems. He's the only one at AVS with 'sources' that go into detail of how poorly the BD50 yields are currently and now his 'source' claims the 51 Triple Layer HD DVD disc is compatible with all existing HD DVD players. I don't know how that would be possible if the laser needs an angle change but I would definitely take any info from this guy with a grain of salt.

 

[captive]

That name seems to come up a lot lately it seems. He's the only one at AVS with 'sources' that go into detail of how poorly the BD50 yields are currently and now his 'source' claims the 51 Triple Layer HD DVD disc is compatible with all existing HD DVD players. I don't know how that would be possible if the laser needs an angle change but I would definitely take any info from this guy with a grain of salt.

This is what im wondering, is it the burning laser that needs an angle change, or the player laser?
I dont think you can just change the angle of the laser in a player with a firmware update.

 

[Oni Jazar]

I just noticed that he clarified that bit:

it wasn't changing the angle of the layer, it was changing the pitch on the actual disc, which in turn was able get get more data on the disc. BUT, the yields on these discs won't be very high to start out, so the ability to manufacture them on a mass market level 'may' never come to reality.

What I said stands though I am skeptical of his claims even if he says that mass market TL51 is vaporware.

 

[Alcibiades]

New list of free movies from the HD DVD group (starting Oct. 1st):

Aeon Flux
Babel
Black Rain
Charlie & the Chocolate Factory
Darkman
Firewall
The Frighteners
Full Metal Jacket
Hulk
Italian Job
Pitch Black
Syriana
Thing
TMNT
U2


My guess is they will be broken up into groups again, but it seems to be a better (or at least more popular) choice of movies.

 

[Chemo]

So who the fuck is David Vaughn, and what job or position does he have that would make him privy to such information? Why exactly is this guy credible, and why is he the only one that has the data?

 

[Flo_Evans]

This is the third time Im typing this thanks to queu jumpers get dumped message deleting my post... ugg.

anyway. you have to remember the HDDVD standard says that TrueHD has to be decoded to 2.0 lossless PCM, anything else is optional (right now all HDMI players send it as 5.1PCM). So, if TrueHD is the only surround soundtrack, its possible some future HDDVD player will only output it as stereo sound. This means that you have to include a DD5.1 soundtrack, or DTS-MA (which has a core track in it) or DD+ (all players have to transcode the DD+ E-AC3 codec into the DD5.1 AC3 codec and output as a bitstream).

So, the choice isnt DD+ or True HD. Its DD+ and True HD.

This lead to several studios deciding that DD+ is "good enough" including Universal and Paramount. Their assessment that this is good enough is because the E-AC3 codec used for DD+ is a huge improvement over the AC3 codec used in DD5.1 on DVD's. Its nearly twice as efficient, meaning a 1.5MB DD+ encode is equivelent to a 3MB DD5.1 encode from a DVD.. and given that DVDs only had 480kb bitrate on the soundtrack, its a massive improvement in quality.

On top of this improvement in efficiency, there are other improvements:

Transient pre-noise processing – to reduce "pre-noise" artifacts before sharp transients.
Enhanced channel coupling – which maintains phase relationships between channels, and improves performance of matrix decoders.

Essentially DD+ at 1.5MBs >>>>>>>> DD5.1 at 480kbs.

So, since Uni and Paramount (and WB) have to make this DD+ soundtrack anyway they didnt see the need to take the extra step to give it lossless audio as well (WB had a DD+ soundtrack on its movies, but obviously has opted for lossless as well). Uni and Paramount are changing this position now, but its going to take a while.

The jump from DVD audio to DD+ on HDDVD is much greater than the jump from DD+ to True HD.. which is what ultimitely led to the "shortcuts" being taken by some studios.

Thats interesting, I thought DD5.1 was the core of DD true HD just like DTS is.

 

[VanMardigan]

That name seems to come up a lot lately it seems. He's the only one at AVS with 'sources' that go into detail of how poorly the BD50 yields are currently and now his 'source' claims the 51 Triple Layer HD DVD disc is compatible with all existing HD DVD players. I don't know how that would be possible if the laser needs an angle change but I would definitely take any info from this guy with a grain of salt.

So....................you are trying to discredit him because his sources provide info you don't want to hear?? Because honestly, I don't see you putting out anything here that suggests we should be wary of a writer at HTS. This is not a Toshiba press release, and Sony hasn't published yield data, and of course you don't trust Amir to tell you what BD yield data is. So, apparently, you won't consider anything from anybody that isn't Sony now.

It's all speculation, but I don't see why you try to discredit this guy now.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I am going to buy Next (ugh) on HD DVD when it comes out. It's got a Dolby 1.5mbps and a full blown 24bit True HD track from Paramount. I'm going to do severe testing of the audio and post my findings. If I don't detect anything of significance between DD+ 1.5 and a 24bit True HD, I'll concede that DD+ is good enough. If not, I'll still be royally pissed at Paramount for not putting a 24bit True HD on Transformers like they did on a piece of shit like Next.

 

[mollipen]

I noticed that Best Buy currently has Kung Fu Hustle on sale for $13 on Blu-ray. Worth getting, or would there be a reason to avoid the current release?

 

[Kolgar]

The good news is that the 51GB discs should play in all HD DVD players currently on the market. We discussed this with James Armour from Toshiba's optical storage division at CeBIT this year, and were told that although the third layer would be harder to read, and generate more data errors, the player's error correction should be able to fix these problems without picture and sound problems.

Who knows if it's feasible enough for studios to support, but still interesting.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9776981-1.html

 

[StoOgE]

I am going to buy Next (ugh) on HD DVD when it comes out. It's got a Dolby 1.5mbps and a full blown 24bit True HD track from Paramount. I'm going to do severe testing of the audio and post my findings. If I don't detect anything of significance between DD+ 1.5 and a 24bit True HD, I'll concede that DD+ is good enough. If not, I'll still be royally pissed at Paramount for not putting a 24bit True HD on Transformers like they did on a piece of shit like Next.

there is certainly a difference between them, and I wouldnt argue that there isnt. Its just not some gigantic gap between the two different codecs.

Do yourself a favor and have someone come over and double blind this sucker for you. (i.e. you leave the room, they pick the audio track, invite you back in and you watch it.. then you leave the room, he switches to the same seen on the other track and you come back in and watch it).. do this for 3 or four scenes, write down the notible differences and see what you come up with. Double blind test results are often hilarious.

 

[Oni Jazar]

So....................you are trying to discredit him because his sources provide info you don't want to hear??

If some guy on avs started announcing great BD news from unconfirmed sources I'd be just as skeptical. I said just that for beatboy77 on avs.

 

[Forsete]

Anyone seen Bridge To Terabithia? Hows the image etc?

 

[VanMardigan]

If some guy on avs started announcing great BD news from unconfirmed sources I'd be just as skeptical. I said just that for beatboy77 on avs.

But why are you comparing an anonymous poster with a bad track record to someone like Amir and David who post under their real name and have shown themselves to be reliable. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not saying you take his speculation as gospel, but he is very careful to separate fact from speculation, and whether its from an anonymous source or public material.

You should know that AVS users are not all created equal. paidgeek, a Sony insider, is someone whose words I would take much more seriously than beatboy.

 

[StoOgE]

If some guy on avs started announcing great BD news from unconfirmed sources I'd be just as skeptical. I said just that for beatboy77 on avs.

He isnt some guy though, he is an editor at Home Theater Spot..

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/

Doesnt mean he is right all the time, but he would certainly have contacts in the industry.

 

[StoOgE]

Speaking of the devil, his comparison to the DD+ track and TrueHD track on Next (Paramount)..

At last, a much anticipated lossless audio release from Paramount! Unfortunately it is on this film and not on next months The Transformers. But I won’t complain about the inclusion of the Dolby TrueHD mix that is supplied on this disc. I did some direct comparisons to the 768 Kbps Dolby Digital Plus mix and both sounded very good, with the very slight edge going to the TrueHD mix for its subtle difference in clarity. Dialogue sounded very lifelike and was presented in the center speaker and the rest of the audio mix had some excellent discrete effects as well. From chapter 13 until the end of the movie is filled with demo sequence after demo sequence that has everything that you would expect from a reference mix.

Bear in mind that this is a 768kbs DD+ mix, so it has half the bitrate of the one found on Uni discs and I believe Transformers (which should be 1.5)... so like Ive been saying, there is a difference, but its slight.

Edit: Just verified, Transformers is getting a 1.5 Mbs DD+ encode... so the difference should be even smaller in that case... not that we'll have anything to compare it too :lol

Though, I do want to be completely fair here, Dolby Labs has said this codec hits diminishing returns at around 1MB for a 5.1 track. There was an interview with someone on AVS once and he said something ot the extent of appreciating Universal for matching DTS bitrate for marketing purposes but that DD+ really hits heavy diminishing returns at around 1MB... so really 1.5 is overkill, but it means they are maxing out this codec.

 

[DoubleTap]

I noticed that Best Buy currently has Kung Fu Hustle on sale for $13 on Blu-ray. Worth getting, or would there be a reason to avoid the current release?

Worth it. Can't go wrong at that price.

 

[captive]

I am going to buy Next (ugh) on HD DVD when it comes out. It's got a Dolby 1.5mbps and a full blown 24bit True HD track from Paramount. I'm going to do severe testing of the audio and post my findings. If I don't detect anything of significance between DD+ 1.5 and a 24bit True HD, I'll concede that DD+ is good enough. If not, I'll still be royally pissed at Paramount for not putting a 24bit True HD on Transformers like they did on a piece of shit like Next.

I think a better test and possibly more worthwhile would be Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds at Radio City Music hall. Its got DD 5.1 and TrueHD, and is said to be top quality reference according to high def digest.
Im watching it tomorrow with a friend who is a huuuuuuuuuge dave fan. I may or may not do some blind comparisons with her.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

That yield data sounds like it might be true, which is certainly a step up from the days of posts with no attribution. Still, why wouldn't one expect the yield cost to be eaten by Sony until they get it right? As I said before, these things tend to get ironed out fairly quickly. These plants haven't even been online all that long. The mantra of "BluRay cannot stand mass adoption based on cost of discs" is very flimsy even if this AVS guy is 100% accurate.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Not sure if this is new but Blockbuster finally has included way to find stores that stock Blu-ray titles:

http://www.blockbuster.com/storelocator/findStores

A lot more stores in S.Florida carry BD then I thought it would.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I think a better test and possibly more worthwhile would be Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds at Radio City Music hall. Its got DD 5.1 and TrueHD, and is said to be top quality reference according to high def digest.
Im watching it tomorrow with a friend who is a huuuuuuuuuge dave fan. I may or may not do some blind comparisons with her.

suuuuure we all know its you who is the huge dave fan :lol I was thinking about picking that disc up for my girl, but then I thought she might want to actually watch it.

 

[Oni Jazar]

That BD disc is a must own if you even remotely like Dave.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

BD-50 dual layer
1080p AVC MPEG-4 transfer
1.85 Anamorphic
Uncompressed 5.1 PCM
Dolby Digital 5.1
Bonus features:

Audio Commentary with Writer/Director Sam Raimi, Star Bruce Campbell, Co-Writer Scott Spiegel and Special Make-up Effects Artist Greg Nicotero
Fast Film Facts – Blu-ray exclusive feature!
Evil Dead II: Behind The Screams Featurette
The Gore The Merrier Featurette
Theatrical Trailer
Anchor Bay Blu-ray Preview – Presented in high definition!

Street Date: October 2, 2007
Pre-Book: August 30, 2007
Catalog #: N3006
UPC: 0-1313-83006-8 3
Run Time: 84 Minutes
Rating: Not Rated
SRP: $29.97

WANT!!!

 

[captive]

suuuuure we all know its you who is the huge dave fan :lol I was thinking about picking that disc up for my girl, but then I thought she might want to actually watch it.

/Shrug, i dont care. I like him like i said in the college music thread rant i dont get whats the big deal on hating him, i dont own all his albums though and I havent seen them live.

 

[soul creator]

just out of curiosity, has anyone who bought an HD-DVD player in early august gotten their free dvd's yet? I bought my 360 add-on right after the price drop and sent the form at around the same time

I know it says its the usual 6-8 weeks thing in the fine print, but I was just wondering if anyone has gotten their movies yet.

And yeah, the new list of movies posted above seems waaaay better than the old list. The old list would be ok if they didn't separate the damn things into groups...

 

[Flo_Evans]

/Shrug, i dont care. I like him like i said in the college music thread rant i dont get whats the big deal on hating him, i dont own all his albums though and I havent seen them live.

I am just fucking with you man. :lol

I have seen him live and his band is one of the best if not the the best live acts out there. A bonus is he doesn't care if you bring your mic and tape deck and record the show and put it out on the net. I may not be that into his music but you gotta admit that is pretty rad of any performer.

 

[captive]

I am just fucking with you man. :lol

I have seen him live and his band is one of the best if not the the best live acts out there. A bonus is he doesn't care if you bring your mic and tape deck and record the show and put it out on the net. I may not be that into his music but you gotta admit that is pretty rad of any performer.

Thats probably because he knows theres no way your going to be able to record the whole show as you'll run out of recordable media! :lol

Even Live at Radio City music hall is 2.5 hours long. Of all the shows i have been to I have only seen 2 shows that were that long, Trans Siberian Orchestra and Iced Earth.

 

[StoOgE]

I think a better test and possibly more worthwhile would be Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds at Radio City Music hall. Its got DD 5.1 and TrueHD, and is said to be top quality reference according to high def digest.
Im watching it tomorrow with a friend who is a huuuuuuuuuge dave fan. I may or may not do some blind comparisons with her.

dd5.1 and dd+ are two completly different codecs.

i have a real long post at the top of this page explaining this.

 

[The Main Event]

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-images/notices/hddvd2firmware.asp

Overview: As part of our commitment to provide world-class service to our customers, Toshiba is supplying this firmware update for use by purchasers of Toshiba HD DVD Player models HD-XA2 and HD-A20. This firmware update includes support for 1080p/24Hz OUTPUT, additional OSD languages, improved network connectivity supporting the download of web-enabled network content associated with certain HD DVD discs, and also addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related issues identified by Toshiba.

 

[captive]

dd5.1 and dd+ are two completly different codecs.

i have a real long post at the top of this page explaining this.

Wow sorry, i didnt know we were nitpicking every little thing.
The DD on Dave @ Radio city music hall is English Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround (640kbps), just 126 less what it is on Next.

 

[StoOgE]

Wow sorry, i didnt know we were nitpicking every little thing.
The DD on Dave @ Radio city music hall is English Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround (640kbps), just 126 less what it is on Next.

IT IS A DIFFERENT CODEC.
DD5.1 =AC3
DD+ = E-AC3

its like saying mpeg and mpeg2 are the same thing.

go read my post on this page... jesus christ. you bitch about transformers having dd+ and dont even know what it is.

 

[captive]

IT IS A DIFFERENT CODEC.
DD5.1 =AC3
DD+ = E-AC3

its like saying mpeg and mpeg2 are the same thing.

go read my post on this page... jesus christ. you bitch about transformers having dd+ and dont even know what it is.

No i bitch about Transformers NOT having Dobly TrueHD.

And i read parts of it, but honestly i just dont care since i dont own HD DVD.

 

[StoOgE]

No i bitch about Transformers NOT having Dobly TrueHD.

no, you are talking out your ass about stuff you know nothing about.

the only reason you would bitch about no truehd is if you thought it was better than the alternative... and you clearly dont have any comprehension of what dd+ is

and if you dont care about hddvd then why are you bitching about the audio quality of one of its movies

 

[captive]

no, you are talking out your ass about stuff you know nothing about.

the only reason you would bitch about no truehd is if you thought it was better than the alternative... and you clearly dont have any comprehension of what dd+ is

I do, its a "good enough" alternative, as you put it, in your tell all audio codec post that you kept insisting i read.
But honestly these fucking discs have an enormous amount of space, so WHY NOT include the best audio available, we are paying top dollar for these discs, and often times all we get is high definition video with a shitty swoosh cover art.
So chill the fuck out, im sorry i dont know every damn little last thing about the fucking format war, and really i dont give a fuck. Sorry i dont know that DD is AC3 and DD+ is E-AC3 like i give a damn, jesus fucking christ.
And i dont have to have the problem of knowing all about what codec is for what, because everyone except paramount and older warner titles includes some track of TrueHD, DTS MA, or PCM.

 

[StoOgE]

I do, its a "good enough" alternative, as you put it.
But honestly these fucking discs have an enormous amount of space, so WHY NOT include the best audio available, we are paying top dollar for these discs, and often times all we get is high definition video with a shitty swoosh cover art.
So chill the fuck out, im sorry i dont know every damn little last thing about the fucking format war, and really i dont give a fuck. Sorry i dont know that DD is AC3 and DD+ is E-AC3 like i give a damn, jesus fucking christ.
And i dont have to have the problem of knowing all about what codec is for what, because everyone except paramount and older warner titles includes some track of TrueHD, DTS MA, or PCM.

you are the one that interjected yourself in a conversation you dont understand.

i was trying to provide you with info since you were unintentionally spreading fud about the audio quality of hddvd movies.

 

[captive]

you are the one that interjected yourself in a conversation you dont understand.

i was trying to provide you with info since you were unintentionally spreading fud about the audio quality of hddvd movies.

What the fuck are you on about, all i said was comparing the audio on Dave Mathews disc would be more worthwhile because Next apparently sucks and thsi concert does not. I didnt interject myself into anything. Get your panties out of a bunch and relax not everything is a slight against you or hd dvd. I NEVER said HD DVD cannot do true hd or any other audio, though you keep saying i did.
I bitch about PARAMOUNT's HYPOCRISY of their CEO saying they want the highest quality audio and video then they go and give Next and Top Gun the best audio available, but not Transformers.
GET. THAT. THROUGH. YOUR. DAMN. HEAD.

I have nothing against you personally like Van seems to against me, i think you're one of the better posters in this thread, but seriously, im bitching about PARAMOUNT not fucking hd dvd. God.

 

[StoOgE]

i didnt say you were trying to slight hddvd.

and he wanted to compare dd+ vs truehd.. which dave mathews lacks. thus my correction.

 

[captive]

i didnt say you were trying to slight hddvd.

and he wanted to compare dd+ vs truehd.. which dave mathews lacks. thus my correction.

Yes thank you, i realize that now.

 

[StoOgE]

Yes thank you, i realize that now.

well, i probably took your nitpicking comment the wrong way and then went off on you...

my bad :lol

 

[Cosmic Bus]

Bourne Ultimatum on the way for December 11th; no specs yet other than the disc being a combo.

Artwork (grammatical error and all) is up for Twister; no finalized date yet, just a vague "early '08" comment from Warner: