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[plagiarize]

I would LOVE to go format neutral, if I could get a COMBO player at a reasonable price that would be PERFECT, or a "Standalone" Blu-ray player, that didn't require me to buy a "Game console" that would work too.Unfortantely ONLY the HD-DVD camp gives me options for under my limit of $200

wait a year. both formats aren't going anywhere any time soon.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Van, sorry I must have missed this in the flood.

As far as the losing money thing goes, again, it was the HD-DVD bots taking cues from avsforum who kept going on about how the PS3 was loosing money and players as cheap or cheaper could not be made. A while ago, but sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Can't talk up "long term viability" and then herald $99 players the format's savior. This is the hardware equivilent of the b1g1 deal, an attempt to make noise and temporarily skew the numbers. In the case of the B1G1, it was to cover a moment of weakness (the week of Transformers), in this case, it's an attempt to fight off that ever-closing "standalone" gap and the still-dominating PS3.

 

[Snah]

I would LOVE to go format neutral, if I could get a COMBO player at a reasonable price that would be PERFECT, or a "Standalone" Blu-ray player, that didn't require me to buy a "Game console" that would work too.Unfortantely ONLY the HD-DVD camp gives me options for under my limit of $200

Huh?

You just purchased a non-stand alone add on for your 360, yet you don't want a PS3 which is essentially the same thing as a stand alone player and only has added functionality built in (and isn't marred by being an 'add on').

I don't understand your reasoning here at all. It seems like you're just trying to troll the PS3 by slighting it's "GAME CONSOLE" functionality.

Moreover, you already spent $400 + for your HD-DVD player, so how can you complain about the PS3's price?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

JCBossman reminds me of that skinny nerdy kid who'd act stupid to get attention of any kind.

 

[Snah]

Yeah, it certainly is a big advantage (arguably BD benefits PS3 more than the other way around, at least that was the prime motivating factor for my purchasing decision) and I really think the only way any HD format begins to gain mainstream acceptance in the next few months is if the PS3 hits a mass market price point around 300 reasonably soon, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.

It's so hilarious how few people even know what HD content really is; I'm starting to doubt whether Americans will ever get it at this point.

I think the public's awareness of HD content will grow with the sale of HDTVs in general, and I think in the next few years you will definitely see a huge push for HDTV and HD content in general.

I also don't think 299 is a 'mainstream price', but it's getting there. The 360 did reasonably well with the price of 399 for quite a while, and that's WITHOUT the added functionality of Blu-Ray. I certainly think this Holiday season should bode well for the PS3 and Blu-Ray in general. HD-DVD will also make gains, but the gains relative to the Blu-Ray side will either be negligible or actually regress.

 

[plagiarize]

Huh?

You just purchased a non-stand alone add on for your 360, yet you don't want a PS3 which is essentially the same thing as a stand alone player and only has added functionality built in (and isn't marred by being an 'add on').

I don't understand your reasoning here at all. It seems like you're just trying to troll the PS3 by slighting it's "GAME CONSOLE" functionality.

Moreover, you already spent $400 + for your HD-DVD player, so how can you complain about the PS3's price?

not that i want to side with JC on any of this, but he didn't spend $400 + for his HD-DVD player. he just happened to own a console that offered a $200 add on.

claiming otherwise is just as bad as trolling the PS3's "GAME CONSOLE" functionality.

 

[Snah]

not that i want to side with JC on any of this, but he didn't spend $400 + for his HD-DVD player. he just happened to own a console that offered a $200 add on.

claiming otherwise is just as bad as trolling the PS3's "GAME CONSOLE" functionality.

I'm sorry but the price of ADMISSION for an HD-DVD player that he purchased IS $400+ and that's a conservative estimate. The fact that he already owned a 360 is irrelevant.

It's not as though the drive itself handles any bit of the processing. The console is very much an important aspect to the player as a whole, and at retail value he spent $600 for the entire package to play HD-DVDs (though, he says he 'got a good deal').

So, truth be told, I can't help but laugh when he complains of the price for the PS3.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I'm beginning to remember why I've mostly avoided this thread.

 

[jjasper]

Has anyone watched any other the other Anchor Bay BDs besides Halloween? After watching it last night I feel like grabbing Day, Dawn, and Evil Dead 2.

 

[teepo]

so when is this wb conference going to happen?

 

[plagiarize]

I'm sorry but the price of ADMISSION for an HD-DVD player that he purchased IS $400+ and that's a conservative estimate. The fact that he already owned a 360 is irrelevant.

It's not as though the drive itself handles any bit of the processing. The console is very much an important aspect to the player as a whole, and at retail value he spent $600 for the entire package to play HD-DVDs (though, he says he 'got a good deal').

see? SEE?

this is the kind of two faced logic that consipiracy theorists get mocked for over in the other thread.

how dare he slight the PS3's game playing abilities... BUT HE ABSOLUTELY PAID $600 JUST TO BE ABLE TO PLAY HD-DVDs. what bullshit.

i can't speak for him, but i bought an xbox 360 when it first came out. i had no idea that an HD-DVD add on was ever going to come out. i paid $400 to be able to play games, and then i later paid $200 to be able to play HD-DVDs. if he bought his 360 and the drive at the same time just to play HD-DVDs you'd have a fair point.

but you don't.

he doesn't either, but that doesn't make you any less wrong than him.

 

[JCBossman]

There is NO "Standalone" gap between the formats, No one buys a Blu-Ray standalone period.And this "Straw Man" argument that says because EVERY PS3 has a Bu-Ray Player, it means EVERYONE will get around to buying TONS of movie discs is Bullshit.The PS3 has FREE online, you would think it would KILL Live seeing as how you have to PAY for Live, But Live Kicks it's ASS, in fact I read less than 25% of PS3's were EVER online.Don't forget the PS3 ONLY sold a COUPLE million units, a CHEAP HD-DVD player in two or three of the BIGGEST retailers in the USA could sell a few million units in a MONTH

 

[fatty]

Kolgar, I think your comment highlights the misunderstanding. Not too many here are pro-Blu because we bought a PS3 that happened to include it-- many bought it because it was the cheapest of the healthier-seeming format players and had the bonus of a game system. OTOH, a lot of the HD-DVD folks here hopped on the bandwagon due to the cheap HD-DVD add-on and brought the console mentality with them (buy both!). Pshah, I say, a waste of money and a likely result of having one or the other unsupported in the future, ala HD Audio formats.

Maybe that is the case for you but I think many are pro Blu-ray because they decided to buy the PS3 as a game system first. Being a game forum I think it applies to both formats.

I know we’ve discussed this a long time ago in this thread and you said that DVD player prices have dropped about the same rate as the high definition players but look what’s going on here. There is no way DVD players dropped in price like this, I still remember getting a steal when I picked up my Apex for as cheap as I did ($149) way back then.

I don’t know what to think about this whole situation. These players are already to the point where they are more popular than their HD Audio format cousins yet neither one is really going to take off. Eh, I don’t know who I want to win or what could be the best scenario going forward from this point. It’d be nice to have one format that had media priced about the same as DVD but it isn’t going to happen now. Either way, DVD is staying here for a long time.

 

[plagiarize]

Has anyone watched any other the other Anchor Bay BDs besides Halloween? After watching it last night I feel like grabbing Day, Dawn, and Evil Dead 2.

i'd skip Evil Dead 2. the picture is really agressively processed... skin tones look waxy and lose some detail compared to the THX branded Anchor Bay DVD of the same film, and there's weird static grain patterns that certainly aren't natural. it's an upgrade... but not much of one, and it certainly could look a lot better than it does, even considering the source material.

Dawn and Day though, come recommended and are probably as good as they're going to get.

 

[jjasper]

I'm beginning to remember why I've mostly avoided this thread.

You pretty much have to just ignore 75-80% of what is said and maybe 1 or 2 times a page there is good conversation about movies and stuff.

i'd skip Evil Dead 2. the picture is really agressively processed... skin tones look waxy and lose some detail compared to the THX branded Anchor Bay DVD of the same film, and there's weird static grain patterns that certainly aren't natural. it's an upgrade... but not much of one, and it certainly could look a lot better than it does, even considering the source material.

Dawn and Day though, come recommended and are probably as good as they're going to get.

Thanks.

 

[Snah]

see? SEE?

this is the kind of two faced logic that consipiracy theorists get mocked for over in the other thread.

how dare he slight the PS3's game playing abilities... BUT HE ABSOLUTELY PAID $600 JUST TO BE ABLE TO PLAY HD-DVDs. what bullshit.

i can't speak for him, but i bought an xbox 360 when it first came out. i had no idea that an HD-DVD add on was ever going to come out. i paid $400 to be able to play games, and then i later paid $200 to be able to play HD-DVDs. if he bought his 360 and the drive at the same time just to play HD-DVDs you'd have a fair point.

but you don't.

he doesn't either, but that doesn't make you any less wrong than him.

1. Thanks for introducing an irrelevant tangent. I suggest you discuss that in a separate thread if you want to have your level of scientific understanding challenged.

2. It's not two faced logic: The price of entry for him -- and you -- was $600. Again, the fact that you also happened to own a 360 is irrelevant. Again; he's complaining about the price of a $400 PS3 when he probably paid close to $600 for a similar item of functionality. I also purchased a 360 at launch and did not buy an HD-DVD player because I realized I was getting a PS3 and felt that Blu-Ray was going to win the format war.

I just find his 'qualms' to be completely unfounded. You disagree, and that's fine.

 

[plagiarize]

There is NO "Standalone" gap between the formats, No one buys a Blu-Ray standalone period.And this "Straw Man" argument that says because EVERY PS3 has a Bu-Ray Player, it means EVERYONE will get around to buying TONS of movie discs is Bullshit.The PS3 has FREE online, you would think it would KILL Live seeing as how you have to PAY for Live, But Live Kicks it's ASS, in fact I read less than 25% of PS3's were EVER online.Don't forget the PS3 ONLY sold a COUPLE million units, a CHEAP HD-DVD player in two or three of the BIGGEST retailers in the USA could sell a few million units in a MONTH

now you get to be an idiot.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:


Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

you didn't just highlight a straw man argument. you just used one.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Hey Bossman, the weekly sales domination would like to have a word with you re: who's buying software. Maybe that's PS3, and maybe it's not, but a lot more Blu discs are being sold. And given how many here are just upgrading to standalone from 360-add on, I don't think software numbers for HD-DVD are going to catch up anytime soon.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Ookie's MIA because he's standing in line waiting for a player! :lol

Ookie is MIA because Ookie is pretty hung over

(Edit : not to mention that for the last 24 hours this thread has looked exactly like a random gaming forum thread)

 

[plagiarize]

2. It's not two faced logic: The price of entry for him -- and you -- was $600. Again, the fact that you also happened to own a 360 is irrelevant. Again; he's complaining about the price of a $400 PS3 when he probably paid close to $600 for a similar item of functionality. I also purchased a 360 at launch and did not buy an HD-DVD player because I realized I was getting a PS3 and felt that Blu-Ray was going to win the format war.

as an owner of an xbox 360, how much did i have to spend to be able to watch HD-DVDs?

if i didn't own one, it would be different. but i did. if bought one to be able to watch HD-DVDs, it would be different, but i didn't.

again... i do not agree with him. but him being stupid, doesn't mean you aren't. it's not an either or situation.

 

[laceystorm]

wow. they're selling HD-DVD players for a dollar more at Best Buy = $99.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...hd-a2&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1158323325814

92% of customers would recommend this product to a friend (44 of 48).

 

[DustinC]

Went format neutral today with the 360 HD-DVD. I don't trust my Wal-Mart enough to actually have the A2 available, plus I had Gamestop credit to blow.

Hello Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, Slither and Serenity!

 

[GreekWolf]

You pretty much have to just ignore 75-80% of what is said and maybe 1 or 2 times a page there is good conversation about movies and stuff.

Hey jasper, where's our basketball thread? You're the designated thread creator for this season, so snap to it!

 

[Draft]

Wow, a hundred bones for HD-DVD? I don't even own an HD TV and I'm thinking of buying one :lol

 

[Snah]

as an owner of an xbox 360, how much did i have to spend to be able to watch HD-DVDs?

if i didn't own one, it would be different. but i did. if bought one to be able to watch HD-DVDs, it would be different, but i didn't.

again... i do not agree with him. but him being stupid, doesn't mean you aren't. it's not an either or situation.

Let me rephrase that question: As an owner of a PS3, how much did I have to spend to be able to watch Blu-Ray movies? $0

I don't even see what you're arguing about anymore. He's complaining about price when a PS3 exists for much cheaper (~$200) than what he paid to be able to watch HD-DVDs.

I also can't fathom how any person who enjoys videogames in general -- as evidenced by the fact that he owns a 360 -- would find the 'PS3 GAME CONSOLE functionality' to be a NEGATIVE point. His 'qualms' in general seem to stem from his apparent console bias.

 

[plagiarize]

Went format neutral today with the 360 HD-DVD. I don't trust my Wal-Mart enough to actually have the A2 available, plus I had Gamestop credit to blow.

Hello Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, Slither and Serenity!

since you obviously like horror, I'd recommend The Thing too. the HD-DVD is a huge upgrade over the DVD.

 

[djkimothy]

There is NO "Standalone" gap between the formats, No one buys a Blu-Ray standalone period.And this "Straw Man" argument that says because EVERY PS3 has a Bu-Ray Player, it means EVERYONE will get around to buying TONS of movie discs is Bullshit.The PS3 has FREE online, you would think it would KILL Live seeing as how you have to PAY for Live, But Live Kicks it's ASS, in fact I read less than 25% of PS3's were EVER online.Don't forget the PS3 ONLY sold a COUPLE million units, a CHEAP HD-DVD player in two or three of the BIGGEST retailers in the USA could sell a few million units in a MONTH

Seriously, GTFO with your console bullshit mentality. You've ruined this thread.

 

[jjasper]

Hey jasper, where's our basketball thread? You're the designated thread creator for this season, so snap to it!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204087

 

[The Elite]

Isn't it about time they dropped the price on the 360 add-on. Like, now.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Has anyone watched any other the other Anchor Bay BDs besides Halloween? After watching it last night I feel like grabbing Day, Dawn, and Evil Dead 2.

I actually kind of like Evil Dead 2 on BD, though I will confess it had been a while since I pulled out the normal dvd to watch

 

[plagiarize]

Let me rephrase that question: As an owner of a PS3, how much did I have to spend to be able to watch Blu-Ray movies? $0

that's 100% correct. we're getting somewhere.

everyone's price of entry differs. if you own a PS3 cause you wanted the games, your price of entry to Blu-Ray is nothing. if you just own an xbox 360, your price of entry to HD-DVD is less than your price of entry to Blu-Ray. if you own neither your price of entry to Blu-Ray is higher.

so he's not wrong to say that the price of entry of HD-DVD was less than $200 for him, because it was.

just the same as the price of entry for HD movies for someone that owns a PS3 without an HDTV is HIGHER than the price of entry of someone who owns an HDTV and an Xbox 360.

that's why your post trying to correct what he said was stupid.

the mistake you keep making is to say that he spent $600 to play HD-DVDs. he didn't... just as you didn't spend $600 to be able to play Blu-Rays.

 

[captive]

Has anyone watched any other the other Anchor Bay BDs besides Halloween? After watching it last night I feel like grabbing Day, Dawn, and Evil Dead 2.

I just loaned my Dawn to my boss who is getting his PS3 tomorrow. He's a huge zombie fan and seen them all like 20 times. But i havent watched it yet, ill let you know what he says.

 

[plagiarize]

I actually kind of like Evil Dead 2 on BD, though I will confess it had been a while since I pulled out the normal dvd to watch

^ THX DVD

^ Book of the Dead DVD

compare that scene to the blu-ray you have and you'll see they used the book of the dead transfer, and added artificial grain to it for some reason.

the blu-ray is an upgrade over the THX DVD (just not much of one), and there is additional detail in some areas, but in others theres less, and like i said, it just goes to show that this is not the best the film will ever look.

 

[Kolgar]

Isn't it about time they dropped the price on the 360 add-on. Like, now.

YES, it's past time.

$99 with the remote and King Kong, at least.

$179 is outrageous at this point.

 

[Forsete]

I wonder what kind of BD numbers the 40GB will generate. Hmm.

 

[Snah]

that's 100% correct. we're getting somewhere.

everyone's price of entry differs. if you own a PS3 cause you wanted the games, your price of entry to Blu-Ray is nothing. if you just own an xbox 360, your price of entry to HD-DVD is less than your price of entry to Blu-Ray. if you own neither your price of entry to Blu-Ray is higher.

so he's not wrong to say that the price of entry of HD-DVD was less than $200 for him, because it was.

just the same as the price of entry for HD movies for someone that owns a PS3 without an HDTV is HIGHER than the price of entry of someone who owns an HDTV and an Xbox 360.

that's why your post trying to correct what he said was stupid.

the mistake you keep making is to say that he spent $600 to play HD-DVDs. he didn't... just as you didn't spend $600 to be able to play Blu-Rays.

There's no use arguing with you about this. I did purchase my PS3 as a blu-ray player and a gameplay mix. There's no quantifiable 'price point' that I could attribute to the blu-ray functionality. The price of entry for me was $500, and felt the price was justified by the combination of functionality that the PS3 provides.

You're also missing the core of my complaint: He's complaining about the price, yet the PS3 was a much less expensive cost than his total combination (by $200). He then goes on to complain about the 'GAME FUNCTIONALITY' as if that's something NEGATIVE about the PS3. It's the combination of these two statements that strikes me as odd, especially when he already owns an Xbox 360.

 

[GreekWolf]

since you obviously like horror, I'd recommend The Thing too. the HD-DVD is a huge upgrade over the DVD.

My cousin and I just watched this a few weeks ago. Being a teenager, this was his first time to see it and he was absolutely blown away. Now he wants to rent more Carpenter flicks, but I've warned him that he's already reached the mountaintop and has nowhere else to go but a rapid plummet into the abyss.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204087

Well I'll be damned. Karakland is even quicker to the punch than Afflalo to the NBA.

 

[OokieSpookie]

YES, it's past time.

$99 with the remote and King Kong, at least.

$179 is outrageous at this point.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see it this holiday season.
I think Toshiba kind of forced their hand.

 

[C4Lukins]

Isn't it about time they dropped the price on the 360 add-on. Like, now.

Probably if they want to continue to keep it competitive with the standalone. I doubt Microsoft is willing to take any sort of loss on it though unlike Toshiba. MS would probably just discontinue it before they would do that.

 

[plagiarize]

There's no use arguing with you about this. I did purchase my PS3 as a blu-ray player and a gameplay mix. There's no quantifiable 'price point' that I could attribute to the blu-ray functionality. The price of entry for me was $500, and felt the price was justified by the combination of functionality that the PS3 provides.

you won't hear me say this much, but there's no arguing with what i'm saying about price of entry not because i'm stubborn, but because i'm right.

 

[Days like these...]

I'm a pretty casual movie watcher.

Also hd dvd is stop gap format. Why are you guys even bothering with him?

Ignatz that closing stand alone gap just went back up to 60/40 sorry I cant be bothered to find the link its somwhere in here a few pages back.

 

[DustinC]

since you obviously like horror, I'd recommend The Thing too. the HD-DVD is a huge upgrade over the DVD.

Awesome, I'll check that out too then. I'm running thru and making a list right now...

 

[Snah]

you won't hear me say this much, but there's no arguing with what i'm saying about price of entry not because i'm stubborn, but because i'm right.

No, it's because you're stubborn. So in my instance, how much did I pay to play Blu-Ray movies when I decided to get a PS3? The 'add on' just confuses things. To completely discredit the entire package of goods is disingenuous.

 

[gkryhewy]

No, it's because you're stubborn. So in my instance, how much did I pay to play Blu-Ray movies when I decided to get a PS3? The 'add on' just confuses things. To completely discredit the entire package of goods is disingenuous.

If there were a straw poll about who was right/wrong on this question, you would lose. This is stupid - you are shitting up this thread by repeating stupid arguments from last fall. Please stop for the love of all that is good and right in the world.

 

[plagiarize]

No, it's because you're stubborn. So in my instance, how much did I pay to play Blu-Ray movies when I decided to get a PS3? The 'add on' just confuses things. To completely discredit the entire package of goods is disingenuous.

in your instance? less than 500 and more than 0.

if someone already owns an xbox 360... it's disingenuous to say it will only cost them $179 to buy the add on? obviously not.

price of entry is how much you have to spend to get something. you don't include things you already have in that. that'd be like including the price of your house when working out how much it would cost you to get a fireplace.

JCBossman is an idiot. you don't need to resort to equally crazy things to make that apparent... just let him write his crazy stuff and it'll shine through just as clearly as your stuff shines through.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Poor plagerize, arguing with two irrational people at once!

Days... I'm talking the long view. One PR blip notwithstanding, Blu as been encroaching (and occasionally catching) HD-DVD all year. The $500 player made a big leap to closing it, and the upcoming $400 model will, too.

Those are 1080p players, btw.

Edit: snah's arguments remind me of the "was there a price drop or not?" for the PS3. Not a good thing to be compared to, btw.

 

[Snah]

If there were a straw poll about who was right/wrong on this question, you would lose. This is stupid - you are shitting up this thread by repeating stupid arguments from last fall. Please stop for the love of all that is good and right in the world.

Perhaps you should actually read the original issue in question, which stems from JC's comments, before resulting to "let's see whose argument would win in a poll" debate.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I vote plagerize. And I agree with him that Snah is resortign to goofy logic to battle goofy logic, especially since Bossman's original point was a) personal, not general (ie, he already had the 360, and perhaps he prefers the games and the PS3-game ability is of lesser value to him thusly) and b) only trolling in the first place.

 

[BocoDragon]

I don't know... I think it's perfectly fair to include the cost of each and every thing you need to get an HD disc up and running.

In the 360s case, getting HD-DVD up and running certainly does include the cost of the 360 unit... no way around that.

 

[plagiarize]

Poor plagerize, arguing with two irrational people at once!

Days... I'm talking the long view. One PR blip notwithstanding, Blu as been encroaching (and occasionally catching) HD-DVD all year. The $500 player made a big leap to closing it, and the upcoming $400 model will, too.

Those are 1080p players, btw.

yeah. i know you guys often wonder why i bother.

i wonder that myself sometimes.

$400 PS3 is obviously going to help Blu-Ray sales. sub $200 player is going to help HD-DVD sales too though.

i think the test is what state HD-DVD is in when the price difference becomes irrelevant, which it obviously isn't at the moment. right now, HD-DVD would be on its way out against an equally priced Blu-Ray player. they need to get at least Warner or one of the Blu-Ray exclusive studios to make a move before that happens in order to keep competing once both are 'affordable'.