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[Oni Jazar]

As for hypocrisy, I'm not going to get into name calling or accusations, but I do find it funny that the folks here who have taken their sides in the war effectively want "every disc to work on every player" in the case of one side winning, as it will be less confusing and easier to understand by the customer, yet presenting a "every disc working on every player" solution of combo formats will be confusing and mind boggling to the consumer. You can't have your cake and eat it to. I thought the entire point was to have it so it didn't matter what disc or what player you bought. In theory, if 99% of the players on the market were combo players, that's exactly what would happen. Saying anything else is just the ultimate in fanboy message board debate.

Not sure who this is directed to, but I'll say what I have always said, HD DVD is a great format and I would be behind it if had the higher chance to succeed, but this isn't just about all discs working on all players. Don't tell me that I need to wait until November '08 at the earliest so that I can afford to buy one (!) player at an affordable price when individual standalones are less or even half of that right now. And for what? Because movie studios and CE companies can't play nice? Fuck that! It's an insult to consumers.

Yeah, I honestly have no clue. I am praying for some sort of bombshell next week. I would consider a bombshell a 1.1/HDi player for $499 by summer. If that happens, then holiday sales could take that down sub-$300.

And on a similar note, if nothing substantial is announced on the combo player front next week, I might as well go back after that point and just delete all of my posts from today. :\

That would be a shame to say the least.

Bookmarked.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

No need to be combative about it, Oni.

 

[michaeld]

Apple to back BR?
http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=Mjk5NTMsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
Analyst are predicting that Apple will throw its weight behind Sony’s Blu-ray format and start shipping Macs with Blu-ray drives. If this is correct, Blu-ray will have the backing of the Mac community, which means literally hundreds of new customers for team Sony. wink

"We believe this is a key announcement as current Macs ship with the DVD format and Sony gains a strong ally in Blu-ray," the analyst told clients. He added that Disney, for which Apple chief executive Steve Jobs is a Director, is a firm supporter of Blu-ray, while rival Microsoft Corp. has placed most of its eggs in the HD-DVD basket.

 

[nerbo]

Apple to back BR?
http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=Mjk5NTMsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
Analyst are predicting that Apple will throw its weight behind Sony’s Blu-ray format and start shipping Macs with Blu-ray drives. If this is correct, Blu-ray will have the backing of the Mac community, which means literally hundreds of new customers for team Sony. wink

"We believe this is a key announcement as current Macs ship with the DVD format and Sony gains a strong ally in Blu-ray," the analyst told clients. He added that Disney, for which Apple chief executive Steve Jobs is a Director, is a firm supporter of Blu-ray, while rival Microsoft Corp. has placed most of its eggs in the HD-DVD basket.

Apple's software already supports both disc formats.

 

[theBishop]

Apple's software already supports both disc formats.

but neither drive is built into a Mac.

 

[nerbo]

but neither drive is built into a Mac.

Point is, people using professional editing tools aren't going to hinge their production on a built in drive.

Full BD integration (and not HD DVD) into iLife suite is another matter.

 

[mollipen]

I'm not sure I see the confusion for anyone in being able to say that buying one device will allow one to play any red disc, blue disc, standard dvd, and cd in the store. It's certainly less confusing than the throes of one format dying where retailers might be advising consumers just to buy the one winning format, but will still have stock of the losing format to sell through, including movies not yet available on the winning format. So there'd still be months of consumer and retailer confusion in the eventuality of one format winning over the other.

Let's say I'm a standard consumer, and I have a dual format player because that's what the guy at Best Buy recommended that I buy. I go to the store, and I want to pick up Blade Runner. But... it's on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. My player can play both, so which do I buy?

I think this question is a lot more important than many of us really appreciate. Those of you wanting the dual-format players to win would envision a market where most people can pick from either format. But if that becomes the norm, I think your average consumer would then wonder why in the hell they can get the same movie on two different formats. Physical medium differences can be understood - buying a movie on VHS vs. DVD makes sense. But with your average consumer already rather confused about DVD vs HD formats, telling somebody that two different HD formats are really the same thing for most purposes, I'd argue, is MORE confusing.

If they're the same, then why are there two different types? And even if I tell my mom that she can get either Blu-ray or HD-DVD, if she's presented with the choice of picking between the two, both options can't be equal, because that makes the choice confusing. There's always some difference: name brand versus off brand, price, 16oz vs 20oz, difference in taste between the products, whatever. I honestly believe that for a lot of consumers, telling them to pick between two products when you can give little to no difference between the two makes the choice harder, not easier.

The months to possibly a year of rough seas while one format dies off and the other takes over would be a far better situation than the mess that would result from both formats lasting and being accepted via combo players.

 

[theBishop]

Point is, people using professional editing tools aren't going to hinge their production on a built in drive.

Full BD integration (and not HD DVD) into iLife suite is another matter.

I don't think people in this thread are so much concerned about the impact of professional editing tool support.

 

[kaching]

Lenovo just announced BD drive inclusion in their next line of laptops as well.

Full-functioning dual players at $299 by November? Hope you're right, but sure you're wrong.

Depending on how much of a stickler you're going to be about "full-functioning" (i.e. no more precise than many of the separate BD and HDDVD players have been about their own separate formats) I'm comfortable with the odds.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I don't think people in this thread are so much concerned about the impact of professional editing tool support.

iThe Life suite is the toolset for everyman, Bishop. You buy a Mac and it comes with iLife.

 

[nerbo]

I don't think people in this thread are so much concerned about the impact of professional editing tool support.

The software is what matters, not the drives.

Professional editing tool support has more impact any day than wether or not a drive comes bundled with a pro machine.

EDIT: If consumer level Macs are announced with built-in BD (not HD DVD hybrid) drives and a new version of iLife supports BD exclusively, that would be quite notable. I question the likelihood that Apple would take such a stance and back just one disc format over the other though in a shipping product at this stage of the game.

 

[avaya]

The retail thing is a big issue and one that HD-DVD had no chance of ever winning.

Lowering your price affects retailer margin immediately. This is not rocket science. It’s business for dummies 101.

This is why Blu-ray has always had intra-industry support.

They have the whole HD value-chain catered for, at every stage.

-New high margin product for studios. Same as HD-DVD. Fight falling DVD income.
-New high margin hardware for CEs. Exclusive to Blu-ray. Fight non-existent DVD player income
-New royalties for a wide section of the CE industry. Exclusive to Blu-ray. The whole reason it all began.
-New high margin hardware for retail. Exclusive to Blu-ray, only now. This is a bit obvious.

It’s the way a supply curve works in economics. The higher the margin on something the more the producer wants to make of it. The more the retailer wants to sell it.

The Digital Bits ed piece isn’t a fabrication of anything. It’s fucking common sense. However his bullshit assumption that retail would do anything quickly is laughable.

BTW no company would ever pay-off a retailer to stop selling a competitors product because that shit is ALL KINDS OF ILLEGAL.

Oh and Toshiba’s recent discount sales are a politically correct way of saying fire sale. That’s what they were. Move of desperation. Call it like you see it. Don’t need to put on a faux show of fair and balanced journalism. Truth is in objectivity and objectively it was a fire sale.

 

[StoOgE]

Truth is in objectivity and objectively it was a fire sale.

really, because I thought it was a 1 time sale at Walmart (where Walmart ate a large part of the loss) and trying to move old inventory to make way for the new model year. But, if you say its objective, who am I to argue.

 

[Argyle]

really, because I thought it was a 1 time sale at Walmart and trying to move old inventory to make way for the new model year. But, if you say its objective, who am I to argue.

That sounds like a "fire sale" to me...

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Use of "fire sale" without specifying scope is a propagandistic tactic to throw a bad light on all of HD-DVD, not just that low-end model.

It's not really defensible, and it's more the type of comment I'd expect here than in an editorial on a well-trafficked news site.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Apple to back BR?
http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=Mjk5NTMsLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
Analyst are predicting that Apple will throw its weight behind Sony’s Blu-ray format and start shipping Macs with Blu-ray drives. If this is correct, Blu-ray will have the backing of the Mac community, which means literally hundreds of new customers for team Sony. wink

"We believe this is a key announcement as current Macs ship with the DVD format and Sony gains a strong ally in Blu-ray," the analyst told clients. He added that Disney, for which Apple chief executive Steve Jobs is a Director, is a firm supporter of Blu-ray, while rival Microsoft Corp. has placed most of its eggs in the HD-DVD basket.

I really want this to happen. I want to buy a 17" MBP.

 

[Snah]

It wasn't just a one time thing. It happened throughout the entire holiday season. Some received more extreme discounts at certain times than others, but it was a move of desperation and one that no CE that values its business would bother getting involved in.

 

[dallow_bg]

really, because I thought it was a 1 time sale at Walmart (where Walmart ate a large part of the loss) and trying to move old inventory to make way for the new model year. But, if you say its objective, who am I to argue.

???

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

So what do you call giving away you software for half-price?

It was an immature, distorting and inflammatory term, and he shouldn't have used it.

 

[nerbo]

It wasn't just a one time thing. It happened throughout the entire holiday season. Some received more extreme discounts at certain times than others, but it was a move of desperation and one that no CE that values its business would bother getting involved in.

The sad thing is that you aren't even getting paid for your spin.

 

[avaya]

really, because I thought it was a 1 time sale at Walmart (where Walmart ate a large part of the loss) and trying to move old inventory to make way for the new model year. But, if you say its objective, who am I to argue.

"fire sale is the sale of goods at extremely discounted prices"

By any distinction of a financial analysis looking at organic CE growth rates, the level of discounting to hit the $99 player price that resulted cannot be classified as anything other than a fire sale price in the financial sense.

What you described further reinforces the fact that it was a fire sale. They faced the unsavoury prospect of not pushing a newer more efficient model due to unmovable stock of the old model.

They heavily discounted.

Can you provide a link on the Walmart claim please, that seems at odds with Walmart policy.

Fire sale has a negative connotation and this appears to be the real intent behind the editorial piece and also seems to be the root cause of the resistance to the use of the term in reference to the Toshiba strategy.

Use of "fire sale" without specifying scope is a propagandistic tactic to throw a bad light on all of HD-DVD, not just that low-end model.

It's not really defensible, and it's more the type of comment I'd expect here than in an editorial on a well-trafficked news site.

Noted. I never read the article in question properly, just skimmed it. My reading comprehension FTL. If that's how they used it, and it seems to be the case then I totally get your point.

 

[kaching]

Let's say I'm a standard consumer, and I have a dual format player because that's what the guy at Best Buy recommended that I buy. I go to the store, and I want to pick up Blade Runner. But... it's on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. My player can play both, so which do I buy?

In a scenario where dual-format players carry the market, there's no reason to assume that each individual movie would continue to be produced in both HD formats. Warner's the biggest contributor to both formats in the current state while most studios are already producing HD movies on only one format anyway. It would mainly be Warner that just has to decide which format they'd prefer to continue converting future movie stock to.

 

[DoubleTap]

I could use another "fire sale". I wasn't the beneficiary of the last one. I have an add-on, but a $99 standalone player would make a good spare.

 

[The Elite]

My god, it took forever, but I finely yesterday managed to get my hands on a copy of Pans Labyrinth BD. Looks amazing so far, gonna watch it in full tomorrow probably. Still no luck on Shoot Em Up though. What is going on with this movie and Canada?

Also picked up the RE trilogy. Watched Extinction for first time, gotta say, thought it was probably on par with the second. PQ is fantastic.

A for this rumor about a 360 Ultimate, god, I dont wanna see another SKU added. I work at EB, and explaining the difference between the 4 current SKU's as is is a pain in the ass.

Little OT, but furthermore, if this does amount to anything more than a simple rumor, Hasn't MS made several comments in the past that they will never incorporate a HD DVD drive as a standard drive for the system?

I have been planing to upgrade my premium to an Elite eventually, for both 1080p and the HDD. But were a better model to come out, might look in to it, though I still doubt it would make me support HD DVD.

Spoiler

Sorry guys, not trying to start anything, but I do believe in Blu

Weird, I've had no problem getting Pan's on release and have seen it on a regular bases since.

I'm actually having trouble finding a god damned copy of Shoot'Em Up. Futureshop simply says their shipment hasn't come in and it looks like nobody else has received it either.

 

[Warm Machine]

I have seen only a single copy of 2001 on HD-DVD in Vancouver since its release. Something is very wrong with distribution of that movie.

 

[mollipen]

In a scenario where dual-format players carry the market, there's no reason to assume that each individual movie would continue to be produced in both HD formats. Warner's the biggest contributor to both formats in the current state while most studios are already producing HD movies on only one format anyway. It would mainly be Warner that just has to decide which format they'd prefer to continue converting future movie stock to.

Here's the problem, though: if companies are going to be releasing their content on only one of the two formats, WHY HAVE TWO FORMATS? If we're at a point where both formats are pretty much equal on a technical level, then why in the world do we support the idea of keeping both of them? What is the logical reason for doing that?

The reason companies are positioned on one side or the other is because there's an active fight to become the primary (and only) HD format in the future. If the whole thing is a wash, and neither win, that isn't the solution either side wants.

Let's say, just roughly, that combo sales soar, and the market a year from now is 50% combo, 35% Blu-ray, 15% HD-DVD. (Just a rough number, taking into account PS3 and Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on sales. It's only an example, so don't jump on me.)

If I'm Paramount, and I'm not getting moneyhats for being HD-DVD only, would I be content missing out on the 35% of the market that is Blu-ray only? If I'm on the HD-DVD side, am I okay not having potential sales to every PS3 owner out there? If I'm Sony, do I continue to be Blu-ray only, since it is more content to help push the PS3, and not bother with HD-DVD only folks out there?

The problem with having a combo-player future is that as long as either format is still active, there is still the high possibility of single-player hardware coming out, and unless you're willing to write off at least some percentage of the market, you'll have to be releasing your titles on both formats, which then makes the whole situation pointless.

And, best possible scenario, you have a landscape that only consists of one of two pieces of hardware: combo player, or Blu-ray only PS3. If you get to that point, then it would be ridiculous to not release your title in Blu-ray versus HD-DVD if in all other regards format no longer matters.

 

[oatmeal]

Weird, I've had no problem getting Pan's on release and have seen it on a regular bases since.

I'm actually having trouble finding a god damned copy of Shoot'Em Up. Futureshop simply says their shipment hasn't come in and it looks like nobody else has received it either.

No one has it, or has any records of them getting it in Calgary.

It's fucking stupid.

 

[kruskev]

It isn't that big of a deal but the controls for my ps3 during blu-ray playback seems to have changed, and I was wondering what menu I have to access to restore it. It used to be that x can be used to pause during movie playback and the left analog stick could be used to fast forward and rewind, now it seems I can only pause using start button and ff and rw using L2 R2 buttons. I have no idea what I did to change it and would be more convenient for me to get the default controls back, thanks.

 

[captive]

It isn't that big of a deal but the controls for my ps3 during blu-ray playback seems to have changed, and I was wondering what menu I have to access to restore it. It used to be that x can be used to pause during movie playback and the left analog stick could be used to fast forward and rewind, now it seems I can only pause using start button and ff and rw using L2 R2 buttons. I have no idea what I did to change it and would be more convenient for me to get the default controls back, thanks.

It depends on the movie. Its not anything thats based in the settings on the ps3.

 

[Sylar]

I watched Scanner Darkly last night on my PC to see real HDDVD and

HOLY SHIT.


It was like watching a new movie, and I've seen that movie like fifty times!

The only bad thing is that everytime I watch a HDDVD on this laptop, PowerDVD loves to just erase all of my Windows programs somehow and I have to do a system restore. It sucks!

 

[Chiggs]

The true victims of the format war: Ladies who know enough about high definition discs to buy a Blu Ray player for at least $300-$400, but don't know what type of movies to feed the player she just paid hundreds of dollars to get.

On the off-chance that you just ran into Bill Hunt's grandmother, send in your letter to Digital Bits so we can get another editorial.

Holy Shit. How did I miss this earlier? :lol

 

[kruskev]

It depends on the movie. Its not anything thats based in the settings on the ps3.

hmm thats weird because I was just continuing to watch ratatouille, and could have sworn I used x to pause... but it works same for every other title so I guess I was wrong :lol

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

I watched Scanner Darkly last night on my PC to see real HDDVD and

HOLY SHIT.


It was like watching a new movie, and I've seen that movie like fifty times!

The only bad thing is that everytime I watch a HDDVD on this laptop, PowerDVD loves to just erase all of my Windows programs somehow and I have to do a system restore. It sucks!

that sounds unfortunate.

I want one of the combo players for my computer but the cost of finding a HDCP compliant video card + monitor seems too much for me right now. Are all of these things really necessary or is it possible to fudge some of it?

 

[The Elite]

No one has it, or has any records of them getting it in Calgary.

It's fucking stupid.

I might have to order this off of Amazon.com.

I'll check FS tomorrow before I do.

 

[oatmeal]

Good news is tomorrow the Stock Checking service on Bestbuy.ca/Futureshop.com go back up.

Easier to check their stuff now.

 

[OokieSpookie]

61:39 blu

On a week where blu had no bogos, and hd had the big amazon one AND Best Buy.

 

[Chiggs]

61:39 blu

On a week where blu had no bogos, and hd had the big amazon one AND Best Buy.

Wow.

 

[favouriteflavour]

61:39 blu

On a week where blu had no bogos, and hd had the big amazon one AND Best Buy.

what was released?

 

[Snah]

61:39 blu

On a week where blu had no bogos, and hd had the big amazon one AND Best Buy.

January is going to be VERY interesting.

 

[OokieSpookie]

what was released?

Blu : Rush Hour 3 and Pan's Labyrinth
Red: Eastern Promises, The Kingdom, Cat People, Time Cop

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Perhaps the recent HD-DVD BOGOs are an attempt to stop the bleeding? As in, without them the Pac-Mans would finally close up a little?

 

[VanMardigan]

Rush Hour 3 was the top seller, wasn't it? It seems to be the biggest release on that list.


edit: and wasn't Pan's released on HD DVD too?

 

[Oni Jazar]

Rush Hour 3 was the top seller, wasn't it? It seems to be the biggest release on that list.


edit: and wasn't Pan's released on HD DVD too?

Pirates 3 was the top BD winner.

 

[MechDX]

David Vaughn

61-39 BD for the third week in a row.

Top 5:

The Kingdom
The Bourne Ultimatum
POTC 3
Simpsons Movie
Rush Hour 3

Top 10 SI
300 Blue Ray
Transfomrers
POTC 3
Casino Royale
Planet Earth HD DVD
The Bourne Ultimatum
300 HD DVD
Spiderman 3
Planet Earth BD
Ratatouille

Notables for the week:

Volume Down from previous 2 weeks
13 of the Top 20 are BD titles.
PE on BD outsold the HD DVD 56:44, but with very low numbers overall.
There are now 9 titles over the 6 figure mark. 5-BD and 4-HD DVD.

There ya go.

 

[OokieSpookie]

Rush Hour 3 was the top seller, wasn't it? It seems to be the biggest release on that list.


edit: and wasn't Pan's released on HD DVD too?

You are correct.

 

[Zombie James]

61:39 blu

On a week where blu had no bogos, and hd had the big amazon one AND Best Buy.

Stick a fork in it...

 

[OokieSpookie]

A personal favorite of mine is the change in Planet Earth.
PE on BD outsold the HD DVD 56:44

 

[avaya]

Perhaps the recent HD-DVD BOGOs are an attempt to stop the bleeding? As in, without them the Pac-Mans would finally close up a little?

A shit ton of PS3s were sold between November - December. When that last happened Blu-ray went from behind to 2:1 immediately.

They know what would happen if they did nothing. This is encouraging.

 

[markom58]

61:39 (which is close to the YTD and LTD numbers I believe) will no way end the war unfortunately. No way will the HD DVD group fold when it was a third of the market. It will take a constant 90:10 beating. Unless things change drastically 2008 will be more of the same.

 

[VanMardigan]

3 weeks in a row at 61:39?

Does that mean the YTD numbers shifted from 65:35?