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[kaching]

I don't have an issue with there being one format, but Sony's approach remains rather consumer-unfriendly and cost prohibitive in my mind. Until they choose to get things into a more affordable range, I am going back to the sidelines.

BD and HDDVD players just started appearing on the market a little over a year ago - DVD wasn't any more "consumer friendly" at this point in it's lifecycle either.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Ok, now that this is, for all intents and purposes, over, can we lose this talking point? HD-DVD has (or, in some cases, just had) some really awesome things going for it that have absolutely nothing to do with the price.

Online in every box, a menu system based on web-like frameworks, strong interactivity features are some other reasons people chose it. I know it's popular around here to think that people who wanted those things only liked them because it was on their chosen format, but I for one thought of them as reasons, in combination with the price factor, why if I was going to back either format it was the one that interested me.

The problem is I've never seen any of this made to good use on HD-DVD. The network support completely blows in Transformers and even bogs down just accessing the disc enough that I turned it off. The U-Control hasn't been very intuitive or useful either on the Universal discs. Sure maybe it sounds nice, but I have yet to use a disc that actually took advantage of these aspects. I'd give up these "features" for larger capacity any day though as it has a much more direct affect on how much content you get as well as the quality. That's far more important to me than that fluff that so far doesn't even work well.

 

[DJ_Tet]

Shot in the dark, but has anyone's 360's sound stopped working?


Does anyone in here have a hacked Component cable enabling optical sound while using a cheap hdmi video cable? Does your sound still work?

Cause mine doesn't, and I can't figure out why after screwing with it for the last half hour. Just a minor blow compared to killing hd-dvd, but it's funny that I get Children of Men in the mail today only to have my 360 rendered mute (and my hd-doa add-on rendered moot.)

Can anyone confirm that their hacked cable still works so I can stop thinking MS trojaned a fix into the system to disable this?


here's the link in the gaming forum for details on the hack

 

[Phoenix]

So true. However, I think Microsoft spent just enough money to achieve its goal. After all, this is the first year that Microsoft game division became profitable. HD DVD stunted the PS3's growth enough to assure 360 success. I not talking about being first or even second place, either, but being in the race, period. It's interesting that the PS3 is having the least success in the U.S., where HD DVD had it's only chance. The PS3 is fairing much better, everywhere else in the world, where Blu-ray is blowing out HD DVD. Even if PS3 sales take off, after this announcement, akin to what DVD did for the PS2, 360 is already assured to remain a player this gen. Had Blu-ray been a foregone conclusion from the start, the console wars may very well have looked very different than it is, now.

While 360 may take the console race for this generation (i.e. the next 3 years or so), you're talking about the physical high definition format that will span the next several generations until we have digital distribution.

 

[sonycowboy]

Some more commentary from Warner. Denying money hats and saying poor DVD and High Def sales are behind the move.

http://www.contentagenda.com/blog/1500000150/post/190019619.html

Warner gets the blu's - January 4, 2008
Media Wonk attended an industry dinner in Hollywood in early December where he ran into Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group president Kevin Tsujihara and home video president Ron Sanders. Although always nice to see Kevin and Ron, Media Wonk was somewhat taken aback by their apparent alarm at the state of the business. Now we know why.

"Not only did neither [high-def DVD] format really take off as expected in fourth quarter, but standard-def was softer than expected given the release slate," Sanders said Friday, shortly after the studio announced that it will drop is support of the HD DVD format and release its high-def titles exclusively on Blu-ray starting in June. "We’re seeing research now that shows that consumers are starting to delay purchases because of the format war, not just on high-def but standard-def purchases as well. That’s very alarming.”

As part of its ongoing tracking research, Warner has been asking consumers for months whether the format war has had any effect on the regular DVD purchase habits.

"They're waiting for something to happen," Sanders said. "They're waiting for the whole situation to become clear so they know what to buy. If you look at the historical conversion ratios of box office into DVD sales, several titles this fourth quarter underperformed where they should have been."

Whether Warner's move will clarify the situation any is an open question. Between now and the end of May, Warner will issue new releases simultaneously on standard-def and Blu-ray, followed by a release on HD DVD "after a short window."

According to Sanders, however, Warner's decision was driven by consumer behavior, more than an expectation of resolving the format war.

"It’s hard for us to speculate about impact this will have on the format war. All we can do really is make the best decision for our business and the rest of it will really take care of itself, in time," he said. "One of the things you see in the NPD data for this fourth quarter was that even with a $100 [price] premium, Blu-ray set tops outsold HD set tops in December. Even with Toshiba having the lowest-cost player in the market, software sales remained 2 to 1 in favor of Blu-ray."

The studio certainly wouldn't mind if it did help resolve the format war, however.

"Warner Bros.’ move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term and the most direct way to give consumers what they want," studio chairman/CEO Barry Meyer said in a statement. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger."

And finally, because someone is bound to ask, Sanders insisted that no financial inducements were involved in Warner's decision, despite the fairly constant buzz of rumors that Warner was being actively courted by both sides.

"There is absolutely no incentive from either side that would have changed the decision we made based on what we were seeing in the consumer data," he said. "The worldwide DVD business is about $40 billion. Any incentives we might have been offered would have paled next to the lost profits from that business if we get this one wrong.”

Not quite Sherman-esque, but he's unquestionably correct that the long-term risk is greater than the short-term gain.

 

[TheJesusFactor]

Wow, as a HD DVD supporter, I am shocked, this announcement is the trump card. I stick by my belief that whoever gets Warner will win the war. So I guess I should start looking for a PS3. Anywhere I can get new one for under $399?

 

[purnoman3000]

For all those wondering where the Batman Begins Blu-Ray is, my best guess is that it would be released to either coincide with the theatrical release of The Dark Knight or simultaneously released with the The Dark Knight on BD, just like how many of the recent releases on BD occurred (Spiderman, Die Hard).

To all those pissed that they just recently bought into HD-DVD over the holidays, do you not have receipts?

 

[Crisis]

Wow, as a HD DVD supporter, I am shocked, this announcement is the trump card. I stick by my belief that whoever gets Warner will win the war. So I guess I should start looking for a PS3. Anywhere I can get new one for under $399?

If you have a PS2 you can trade it into Gamestop and get a new 40GB PS3 for $350 this weekend.

 

[VanMardigan]

Now that I've had time to reflect, I'm about as stunned as Toshiba. Warner is scheduled to speak at their conference, they had a meeting just over a week ago to go over what was going to be said at the conference. Toshiba packs 300 into every 3rd gen player they sell. WB was initially HD DVD exclusive, and still has some movies they've withheld from Blu Ray. And if the rumors are true, they even tried to drag Fox over to the HD DVD side. Warner seems to have done everything possible to move this war in HD DVD's favor, but in the end decided that they couldn't get it done, took the BD money, and shocked the hell out of the HD DVD group, essentially slitting their throats.

If I'm Toshiba, I'm hurt, but I hope they realize Warner seemed to have tried everything in their power to make it work. Sony did the right thing and solidified their Fox support (remember the rumor of a BD studio moving over), and then at least matched what MS was offering for Warner. Without Fox's move, Warner knew this would just be a stalemate, and they pretty much felt they had no choice but to go Blu, for the future of their optical movie media business.

That's my take, and I'm sure some Blu Ray folks will not want to believe that Fox ever considered switching, or that Warner was eventually handsomely rewarded (even if it WASN'T their primary motivation), but it seems to me that Warner didn't see anyway that HD DVD could win, and chose a painful (but ultimately more altruistic) route. I just know that it pains Warner very much to abandon Toshiba like this, but this is business.

 

[NumberTwo]

I feel like Kid at the end of Matrix Revolutions, only with a less shitty ending. THE WAR IS OVER, THE WAR IS OVER!!1ONE!


Speaking of which, the Matrix Trilogy is without a doubt on it's way to BRD now. Can't wait!

 

[Juice]

Looks like Toshiba isn't having its best day. Trading at $0.00 on Google Finance

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:TOSBF

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

"We’re seeing research now that shows that consumers are starting to delay purchases because of the format war, not just on high-def but standard-def purchases as well. That’s very alarming.”

This is certainly true. I very nearly did not buy The Bourne Ultimatum on DVD due to this. I don't have a HD-DVD player so obviously that version was not an option, but then the format war being what it is also made me unsure about whether or not it would actually stay HD-DVD exclusive. And I'm not a fan of double dipping DVD and hi-def releases, so yeah... the format war can definitely make people less confident in their buying decisions.

 

[sonycowboy]

Now that I've had time to reflect, I'm about as stunned as Toshiba. Warner is scheduled to speak at their conference, they had a meeting just over a week ago to go over what was going to be said at the conference. Toshiba packs 300 into every 3rd gen player they sell. WB was initially HD DVD exclusive, and still has some movies they've withheld from Blu Ray. And if the rumors are true, they even tried to drag Fox over to the HD DVD side. Warner seems to have done everything possible to move this war in HD DVD's favor, but in the end decided that they couldn't get it done, took the BD money, and shocked the hell out of the HD DVD group, essentially slitting their throats.

If I'm Toshiba, I'm sure they're hurt, but I hope they realize Warner seemed to have tried everything in their power to make it work. Sony did the right thing and solidified their Fox support (remember the rumor of a BD studio moving over), and then at least matched what MS was offering. Without Fox's move, Warner knew this would just be a stalemate, and they pretty much felt they had no choice but to go Blu, for the future of their optical movie media business.

That's my take, and I'm sure some Blu Ray folks will not want to believe that Fox ever considered switching, or that Warner was eventually handsomely rewarded (even if it WASN'T their primary motivation), but it seems to me that Warner didn't see anyway that HD DVD could win, and chose a painful (but ultimately more altruistic) route. I just know that it pains Warner very much to abandon Toshiba like this, but this is business.

So, I take it you don't believe Warner's Ron Sanders? I know it's popular to think moneyhats, especially with the Paramount situation, but I do believe it's in the studios best interest to put the format war behind them before the physical formats die. They can't go another year and expect anything to win. And with DVD sales plumetting, I think they're scared to death that what happened in the music industry will happen to them.

 

[VanMardigan]

So, I take it you don't believe Warner's Ron Sanders?

In so much as their main motivation was the long term health of the market, I do. I also firmly believe that they did accept payment from the BDA. They'd be stupid not to, no matter what their motivation was.

 

[Raistlin]

one thing not talked about a whole lot was Toshiba's statement about Warner jumping. It sounds like they're still under some sort of contractual agreement. If Warner breaks any of that..... lawsuit?

Contracts aren't made this stupidly. Obviously there are out clauses ... at worst, they contain some level of penalty.


For example, I wouldn't be surprised if Warner was given some level of replication subsidy from Toshiba for releasing HD DVD content for a certain duration. If they pull out, they have to pay back the subsidy, etc.


Do you honestly think studios went into a dual format situation blindly?

 

[Raistlin]

I feel that in five years this will be mainstream.

And you are ridiculously wrong :lol :lol :lol

 

[Crisis]

In so much as their main motivation was the long term health of the market, I do. I also firmly believe that they did accept payment from the BDA. They'd be stupid not to, no matter what their motivation was.

I agree with that. If money was on the table they made the good decision AND took the money.

 

[VanMardigan]

For example, I wouldn't be surprised if Warner was given some level of replication subsidy from Toshiba for releasing HD DVD content for a certain duration.

Beyond that, Warner was involved in the promotional arm of the HD DVD group, and I'm sure there will be unfulfilled obligations there as well. I'm sure more of the details of this and the money they accepted from the BDA will continue to surface, just as the Paramount details did.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

So, I take it you don't believe Warner's Ron Sanders? I know it's popular to think moneyhats, especially with the Paramount situation, but I do believe it's in the studios best interest to put the format war behind them before the physical formats die. They can't go another year and expect anything to win. And with DVD sales plumetting, I think they're scared to death that what happened in the music industry will happen to them.

at the end of the day none of this matters anymore. HD DVD is seemingly on its death bed and i guess that what the blu camp wanted.

 

[Raistlin]

I would be suprised if there is one at CES. There will be ones at 2 grand though.

Considering the PS3 (that has WAY more tech than needed in a standalone) already supports 2.0 ... to assume they will be THOUSANDS of dollars for all of '08 is :lol

 

[Nicodimas]

well i guess on a good note is Blu-ray will have to slug it out against dvd..but it may lose unless they can prove how much better it is.

They cant get steped over by microsoft with DD. They may be agressive starting this, All they need is the big cities in America with these services.

On the huge downside that I loved about hd-dvd was regionless format. I love my Band of Brothers with DTS-HD.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/04/marantzs-new-high-end-blu-ray-player/

< i meant 2 grand players.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

So let me get this straight. The HD-DVD camp very suddenly cancels its press conference and its cocktail party due to this news, but this Amir fella, he knew about this all along?

 

[Meier]

I'm just shocked MS let it happen to be quite honest. I know they wanted to move to DD, but by sitting on their hands and not getting further behind HD DVD, they're allowing some pretty irreparable damage to the perceived value of the 360.

Oh well, I just hope MS makes sure the next Xbox supports to the HD player! It's sad, because at this point I probably won't be buying any more discs. I won't buy standard def DVDs any more and now I wont be buying high-def ones as I don't intend to get a PS3 any time soon. Oh well, saves me some money in the end.

 

[sonycowboy]

So, I think everyone here believes the war is now essentially over, assuming it can even be won. DVD may well outlast BD and digital downloads may be the future.

But, in any case, here's how the industry marketshare now lies.

Based on 2007 movie ticket sales
73% are exclusively Blu-Ray (Sony, MGM, Disney, Fox, Warner)
27% are exclusively HD-DVD (Universal, Paramount / Dreamworks)

Based on prior years movie ticket sales
~75-80% are exclusively Blu-Ray
~20-25% are exclusively HD-DVD

 

[OokieSpookie]

I'm just shocked MS let it happen to be quite honest. I know they wanted to move to DD, but by sitting on their hands and not getting further behind HD DVD, they're allowing some pretty irreparable damage to the perceived value of the 360.

Oh well, I just hope MS makes sure the next Xbox supports to the HD player! It's sad, because at this point I probably won't be buying any more discs.

Microsoft does not give a rat's ass about hd-dvd.
People have been explaining that for months but nobody wanted to listen, they have their own plans and their own things irons in the fire.
They offered to give money for wb to go red if wb committed to exclusive downloads to the live services and wb said no.
MS will lose no sleep over it at all.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

While 360 may take the console race for this generation (i.e. the next 3 years or so), you're talking about the physical high definition format that will span the next several generations until we have digital distribution.

A valid point that I did not consider. Thank you. I'm assuming you're also talking about the the royalty/licensing money Microsoft stood to make off of HD DVD technology.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

So, I think everyone here believes the war is now essentially over, assuming it can even be won. DVD may well outlast BD and digital downloads may be the future.

But, in any case, here's how the industry marketshare now lies.

Based on 2007 movie ticket sales
73% are exclusively Blu-Ray (Sony, MGM, Disney, Fox, Warner)
27% are exclusively HD-DVD (Universal, Paramount / Dreamworks)

Based on prior years movie ticket sales
~75-80% are exclusively Blu-Ray
~20-25% are exclusively HD-DVD

I thought some of the Dreamworks properties weren't HD-DVD exclusive?

 

[quest]

So, I take it you don't believe Warner's Ron Sanders? I know it's popular to think moneyhats, especially with the Paramount situation, but I do believe it's in the studios best interest to put the format war behind them before the physical formats die. They can't go another year and expect anything to win. And with DVD sales plumetting, I think they're scared to death that what happened in the music industry will happen to them.

Oh come on lets be real. 399 dollar players and 29.99 dollar movies are not going to fly at all the the public. Neither of these formats are going to save the studios. The winner is just going to get a niche market. The average joe is not going to replace all his DVD players with blu players including the ones in the car/minivan. People are not going to buy movies 2x once for the blu player and once for the other players in the house car. If warner really was doing the best for the industry heres what would of happened. They would of said to sony ok we will go blu if you release a 199 dollar entry level player and lower licenesing fees to get movies to 24.99 instead of 29.99-34.99.

 

[btf1980]

Saw this over at AVS....those guys are going bonkers!!

 

[antiloop]

Will it really end?

Seems like a dream.

 

[NumberTwo]

Saw this over at AVS....those guys are going bonkers!!

It really does feel that way though. :lol

 

[Kabuki Waq]

The only way Blu ray has achance of winning is if they slowly start phasing out DVD versions of some movies. They should atleast do that with the RE-issues like Blade runner final cut. But i guess consumer demand for dvds are still way too high.

 

[kaching]

This is certainly true. I very nearly did not buy The Bourne Ultimatum on DVD due to this. I don't have a HD-DVD player so obviously that version was not an option, but then the format war being what it is also made me unsure about whether or not it would actually stay HD-DVD exclusive. And I'm not a fan of double dipping DVD and hi-def releases, so yeah... the format war can definitely make people less confident in their buying decisions.

I stopped buying DVDs more than a year ago. HD or bust at this point and I'll wait rather than spend my money on DVD, unless it's something where I know the source material isn't better than SD.

 

[Nicodimas]

Sony may have had huge shift in the console war as the only blu-ray player really to buy is it at this point correct?

I would feel jilted as the other manufactuers.

 

[DJ_Tet]

I stopped buying DVDs more than a year ago. HD or bust at this point and I'll wait rather than spend my money on DVD, unless it's something where I know the source material isn't better than SD.

As a red supporter (formerly) I feel the same way. I'll never buy another dvd, at least as long as Blu makes it.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

Sony may have had huge shift in the console war as the only blu-ray player really to buy is it at this point correct?

... what?

 

[Crisis]

Blu-ray doesn't have to actually overtake DVD does it? It just needs to be a profitable arm for studios and hardware manufacturers to prop on. With the rapid expansion of HDTV and prices on Blu-ray players falling all the time I could easily see lots of people picking up Blu-ray.

 

[Raistlin]

Sony may have had huge shift in the console war as the only blu-ray player really to buy is it at this point correct?

I would feel jilted as the other manufactuers.

As opposed to how other manufacturers didn't bother with HD DVD due to Toshiba's pricing? :lol


PS3 prices will remain constant a lot longer than standalones ... and that will be with the manufacturers still making profits.

 

[OokieSpookie]

The only way Blu ray has achance of winning is if they slowly start phasing out DVD versions of some movies. They should atleast do that with the RE-issues like Blade runner final cut. But i guess consumer demand for dvds are still way too high.

Not even close to reality.

All they need to do is keep up with day and date releases and up catalog releases while keeping themselves in the public eye and it will be cake.
Warner's jump will have ramifications through out the rest of red's shrinking little camp.

 

[NumberTwo]

I stopped buying DVDs more than a year ago. HD or bust at this point and I'll wait rather than spend my money on DVD, unless it's something where I know the source material isn't better than SD.

Ditto. The thought that I will have to re catalouge my movie collection in HD over time already erks me. I won't add to the problem by continuingly adding SD DVD's to my collection. I was holding out for this war to pass over, and hoped that BRD would be the victor. I'm very content right now.

 

[Nicodimas]

I want xfiles fox. Where are the TV shows on HD? Why arent these being pumped out?

 

[el Diablo]

Dude, you don't understand.

Kimmy from Toshiba called Danny from WB and asked him to come over to her side. Danny wanted to check with his bud Brian over at Fox, told him the deal...Kimmy is hot and she wants them over at the HD-DVD hotel pronto. And oh yes, she's gonna pay them for it. Brian's too busy watching Die Hard and is like, nah you go on without me. Danny fought with Brian in the first Gulf War so they are best friends. He breaks the news to Kimmy...if Brian doesn't go, neither does he. Kimmy is heartbroken. She pauses her Peter Bjorn and John cd and calls up Danny and is like what the F. It's gonna be a great party and you're ruining everything and I hate you. Danny agrees to go if she will show her cans. Kimmy is horrified and tells Danny she never wants to speak to him again. Oh and fuck Brian too.

Deal falls through. THE END.

This post and the Tron.gif are the best things to come out of the announcement.

 

[kaching]

Oh come on lets be real. 399 dollar players and 29.99 dollar movies are not going to fly at all the the public. Neither of these formats are going to save the studios. The winner is just going to get a niche market. The average joe is not going to replace all his DVD players with blu players including the ones in the car/minivan. People are not going to buy movies 2x once for the blu player and once for the other players in the house car. If warner really was doing the best for the industry heres what would of happened. They would of said to sony ok we will go blu if you release a 199 dollar entry level player and lower licenesing fees to get movies to 24.99 instead of 29.99-34.99.

It's like you have absolutely no concept of a platform lifecycle...might want to check on pricing for DVD only a year or so after it was introduced to the market...

 

[Raistlin]

OMG ... from AVS

Where is RDjam & Amir to save HD-DVD now.

WOW!!! :lol :lol :lol

 

[Byakuya769]

As a red supporter (formerly) I feel the same way. I'll never buy another dvd, at least as long as Blu makes it.

Hahahaha, what the hell? Did Blu do something to personally wrong you?

(edit) Hah, nevermind.. I see what you mean now, and I agree... I'm just waiting on an HDTV.

 

[Nicodimas]

It's like you have absolutely no concept of a platform lifecycle...might want to check on pricing for DVD only a year or so after it was introduced to the market...

The market is going to go into a serious recession in the next year. Microsoft is banking on this for the DD industry.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

The only way Blu ray has achance of winning is if they slowly start phasing out DVD versions of some movies. They should atleast do that with the RE-issues like Blade runner final cut. But i guess consumer demand for dvds are still way too high.

Blu-ray won't surpass DVD anytime, soon, but as HDTVs gain more marketshare, the difference in quality, along with the inevitable drop in prices, will convince many people to upgrade. Look how long VHS stuck around, after DVD came out. That didn't stop DVD from becoming successful.

Also, film still has potential to be scanned at even higher resolutions than 1080p, so studios stand to make a lot of money remastering their catalog titles, causing numerous consumers to triple-dip on movies they already own two copies of(VHS and DVD).

 

[Ponn]

Thank fucking god. It's like clouds are starting to part on this stupid ass format war bullshit and HD media actually has a chance now.

Dreamworks and Paramount have to be taking turns kicking themselves in the nuts right now.

 

[Whipped Spartan]

I own an HD DVD add on and 19 hd dvd's.

Should I just trade them in gamstop and go blu? or Should I keep them and get a BRD player this fall?

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Hahahaha, what the hell? Did Blu do something to personally wrong you?

You misinterpreted DJ_Tet's post. He means that he will never buy another DVD, as long as Blu makes it, because he'll be getting the Blu-ray version, instead. You need to read the post he was replying to, to understand that, though.

Here's the complete dialog:

I stopped buying DVDs more than a year ago. HD or bust at this point and I'll wait rather than spend my money on DVD, unless it's something where I know the source material isn't better than SD.

As a red supporter (formerly) I feel the same way. I'll never buy another dvd, at least as long as Blu makes it.