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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.
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MassiveAttack
Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Doesn't matter what they do. Retail buyers will determine the future course of the market. If Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Costco, Circuit City, etc. refuse to take huge stocks of HD-DVD players and discs, there's really nothing Toshiba can do about it.
KZObsessed
Member
Alcibiades said:
That is fucking genius! :lol :lol :lol
The time and effort that that must have took...
MassiveAttack
Banned
justjohn said:
Er, these decisions rarely happen overnight. Give it a month and I think the retail picture will be much clearer.
yeah, the fact that BDPs already beat discounted HD-DVD players is bad news for this new low price strategy.
It just seems HD-DVD is in a freefall at the moment and has no idea what to counter with. of course as you guys are saying, this COULD be a firesale in disguise, which would believe it or not make more sense than continuing to fight with only 30% of the studio output in your pocket (and likely itching to leave, seeing greater BRD sales on the other side).
It just seems HD-DVD is in a freefall at the moment and has no idea what to counter with. of course as you guys are saying, this COULD be a firesale in disguise, which would believe it or not make more sense than continuing to fight with only 30% of the studio output in your pocket (and likely itching to leave, seeing greater BRD sales on the other side).
The Main Event
Member
At Toshiba's PR:
It's the smartest strategy given their current situation. I'm interested to see their future ad campaigns.
Most of the average consumers don't even realize that they can upscale their current DVD collection without having to replace their library. That was actually one of my friends selling point, and he picked an A3 at $200 CAD.
But HDM IS currently a niche market. Not everyone is hanging out on HD forums and are as well informed as us regarding HD medias. Just look at some of the questions that's been asked around here (i.e. movie ratios), or even some comments regarding an HD movie transfer that looks like an upscaled DVD. Most people aren't even aware of the HD format war.
How do you convince an average Wal-Mart consumer to buy a PS3 and then buy $30-35 BD movie discs. That thing is not mass market yet, it's a luxury.
The day that an average college kid will upgrade his DVD player for a BD (or HD) movie player, and his parents put a BD/HD player in their mini-van and that electronic stores allocate 50% of their shelves space for HD media, that's the day I'll consider it as mass market.
It's the smartest strategy given their current situation. I'm interested to see their future ad campaigns.
Most of the average consumers don't even realize that they can upscale their current DVD collection without having to replace their library. That was actually one of my friends selling point, and he picked an A3 at $200 CAD.
Ignatz Mouse said:
But HDM IS currently a niche market. Not everyone is hanging out on HD forums and are as well informed as us regarding HD medias. Just look at some of the questions that's been asked around here (i.e. movie ratios), or even some comments regarding an HD movie transfer that looks like an upscaled DVD. Most people aren't even aware of the HD format war.
How do you convince an average Wal-Mart consumer to buy a PS3 and then buy $30-35 BD movie discs. That thing is not mass market yet, it's a luxury.
The day that an average college kid will upgrade his DVD player for a BD (or HD) movie player, and his parents put a BD/HD player in their mini-van and that electronic stores allocate 50% of their shelves space for HD media, that's the day I'll consider it as mass market.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Main, it is niche at the moment. Crying that out, over and over again, is a sign of somebody who doesn't like the current state of affairs. Somebody just on the last page was saying that Paramount and Universal might not go Blu because "both are niche" which totally ignores the likely increase over the next year, or WB's prediction that it could be a billion-dollar business this year. And if not tis year, certainly next.
The niche comment is last refuge of somebody who's bitter, IMHO.
The niche comment is last refuge of somebody who's bitter, IMHO.
KZObsessed
Member
Format War hits CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/01/07/intv.blu.ray.rising.pope.cnn?iref=videosearch
Some mis-information:
Walmart only sells BD players.
Shortages of Wii help PS3 (Enderle vindicated!)
Revenue of BD = DVD x 3
:lol
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/business/2008/01/07/intv.blu.ray.rising.pope.cnn?iref=videosearch
Some mis-information:
Walmart only sells BD players.
Shortages of Wii help PS3 (Enderle vindicated!)
Revenue of BD = DVD x 3
:lol
every market is a niche market to start with. Even DVD didn't really explode until over 2 years after release. The irony of the rallying cry is that it is meant to imply that the format war is far from over, and this is simply another volley by the BDA. The truth of the matter is that while HDM is still niche, THIS gives it the opportunity it needs to break out of that niche, and likely isn't going to be countered (to any effective level) by the HD-DVD Group.
Being a niche market isn't a bad thing when the market is young. If we're still saying HDM is a niche market 1-3 years from now, that could definitely be signaling a problem. But saying a market is niche just two years after launch... ummmm.. no shit. However, the HD-DVD backers aren't simply saying that. They're using it to prop up their reason on why HD-DVD still has a chance.
Being a niche market isn't a bad thing when the market is young. If we're still saying HDM is a niche market 1-3 years from now, that could definitely be signaling a problem. But saying a market is niche just two years after launch... ummmm.. no shit. However, the HD-DVD backers aren't simply saying that. They're using it to prop up their reason on why HD-DVD still has a chance.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I'm not sure what to make of this new approach by Toshiba.
The obvious thing to say is that this 'aggressive' marketing campaign should have begun in October/November of last year, it may well have made a difference.
The idea of this simply being a firesale is entirely plausible, however I think it may be a genuine attempt at rescuing the situation.
The move by Warner was indeed a fatal blow, but until Paramount, Universal and more importantly retailers make a similar decision, why shouldn't Toshiba still have faith in their product
As an owner of HD-DVD it's heartening to see that they simply haven't given up. And lets be honest, would the Blu-Ray Association have admitted to their own defeat so quickly if the situation was reversed? Certainly not.
The obvious thing to say is that this 'aggressive' marketing campaign should have begun in October/November of last year, it may well have made a difference.
The idea of this simply being a firesale is entirely plausible, however I think it may be a genuine attempt at rescuing the situation.
The move by Warner was indeed a fatal blow, but until Paramount, Universal and more importantly retailers make a similar decision, why shouldn't Toshiba still have faith in their product
As an owner of HD-DVD it's heartening to see that they simply haven't given up. And lets be honest, would the Blu-Ray Association have admitted to their own defeat so quickly if the situation was reversed? Certainly not.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Potential "Oh snap" here:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/14/stargate-atlantis-s1-appears-on-amazon-in-blu-ray-format/
Stargate is a Sci-Fi series, hence owned by Universal.
Could be a mistake. Could be the first sign.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/14/stargate-atlantis-s1-appears-on-amazon-in-blu-ray-format/
Stargate is a Sci-Fi series, hence owned by Universal.
Could be a mistake. Could be the first sign.
MassiveAttack
Banned
justjohn said:
The Warner decision was just 10 days ago. Retail doesn't move that quickly and Paramount/Universal are so lawyered up on their contracts that it will take several weeks before we have any idea of when they might drop HD-DVD and put an end to HD clusterfuck once and for all. The faster this happens, the better for all concerned.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Damnit avaya, quit confusing me with facts!
I don't care as much about Paramount as Universal right now, I was hoping this was it.
I don't care as much about Paramount as Universal right now, I was hoping this was it.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
Should I wait for some super massive HD "Lord of the Rings" release? or just buy the DVD?
ManaByte
Member
avaya said:
The Stargate DVDs are MGM and as such FOX is responsible for them now.
Sony and MGM broke up a couple years ago, but people on this forum STILL think Sony = MGM.
The only connection Sony has to MGM now is that they jointly release the Bond films.
MGM handles all of their theatrical releases. Fox handles all of MGM's home video releases.
It's pretty fucking annoying to see people think Sony = MGM in list warz.
dallow_bg said:
I assume you have the 971 or 981 then?
I'm going to get the 980 soon. It's too bad its PAL->NTSC conversion isn't as good as the 981 ... but it has the other features I need (480i HDMI output, and better SACD/DVD-A performance w/ analog for when I use it with my tube-amp).
Granted, I only have a few PAL DVD's, so it isn't that big of deal to me.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
ManaByte said:
Where do you see that Sony and MGM broke up? All my searching shows that Sony didn't even buy MGM until 2005.
For a year, I thought HD DVD the more consumer-friendly choice in part because of its pricing.
Today, post-Warner, I think Toshiba's persistence and continued focus on pricing may be anti-consumer unless what we are seeing is in fact a fire sale.
I simply don't see any way for Toshiba to win anymore. Lowering the MSRPs won't help. Their window was Q4, and now that window is closed.
I'd be working on a dual-format player and trying to settle up with the BDA if I was them. That makes the most sense from where I'm standing. (In the doorway to the jazz club, doing my salsa dance.)
Today, post-Warner, I think Toshiba's persistence and continued focus on pricing may be anti-consumer unless what we are seeing is in fact a fire sale.
I simply don't see any way for Toshiba to win anymore. Lowering the MSRPs won't help. Their window was Q4, and now that window is closed.
I'd be working on a dual-format player and trying to settle up with the BDA if I was them. That makes the most sense from where I'm standing. (In the doorway to the jazz club, doing my salsa dance.)
Sony and MGM never broke up, it's just not as simple as "Sony is teh owner so they shall distribute all their movies"... MGM is still a subsidiary of Sony / Comcast / Partners, they just made a business decision in 2006 in which Fox will distribute the majority of their movies except for those where Sony / Columbia act as a majority partner...ManaByte said:
ManaByte
Member
Valkyr Junkie said:
From MAY OF 2006
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/search/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002577675
ManaByte said:
Calm down. :lol
Notice I said past-tense.
Stargate is not just an MGM only production, it is in association with Columbia's TV arm. At CES 2006 Sony announced Atlantis S1 for Blu-ray. That was prior to Fox formally assuming MGM distro control. Sony is still a key player in the private-equity consortium which owns MGM, it has a 20% stake I believe.
Opus Angelorum said:
I'm a staunch HD DVD supporter, and even I think it's a move that is too late, but I certainly don't fault them for trying.
I think what this move does is it creates an incentive in the future for Combo players, as the lower priced players will grow the market somewhat. That means there will always be a market (if small) for HD DVD's and players. I know that the next HD player I get will be a combo... which isn't likely to be for a few years at the least.
MassiveAttack
Banned
thaivo said:I'm a staunch HD DVD supporter, and even I think it's a move that is too late, but I certainly don't fault them for trying.
I think what this move does is it creates an incentive in the future for Combo players, as the lower priced players will grow the market somewhat. That means there will always be a market (if small) for HD DVD's and players. I know that the next HD player I get will be a combo... which isn't likely to be for a few years at the least.
I tried to make sense of this and failed.
well to be fair to toshiba you cant expect them to just roll over and die. we're talking billions in potential revenue here for the next ten to twenty years, so they'll do all they can till its absolutely certain its over. blame the retailers and those two idiot studios instead.
It means they want to ensure a large base of HD DVD media buyers, with some HD DVD's in their library.MassiveAttack said:
Therefore there will generally be a market that wants Combo players, which Toshiba is bound to be able to produce at a lower cost than most CE Co's (not named Sony).
thaivo said:
Or, it means they are liquidating their remaining stock.
If that is indeed the case, the PR statements they made will come back to haunt them.
If all the studios go blu (which looks to be the case later this year), no one will bother making more HD DVD's. In that situation, Toshiba is no longer making any revenue from disc sales.
Therefore, they would need to actually make a profit from HW if they are going to bother releasing combo units. In other words, they won't be nearly as cheap as their subsidized HD players (even BEFORE considering the components for BD playback).
Seems like a lot of fail.
Opus Angelorum
Member
justjohn said:
And lets not forget there are almost 1 million owners of a standalone HD-DVD player, it would be completely insane to ignore them.
OokieSpookie
Banned
Onix said:
I think this is more of the case to be honest, I personally think they are trying to clear out stock while giving the impression that they are still strong so as not to eat all of those christmas hd players ( most stores have a 30 day return if I am not mistaken ).
Not to mention a good number of those players include 300 from Warner.
Will have to watch and see if they actually release new skus or even new packaging.
OokieSpookie
Banned
Opus Angelorum said:
Warner seems to not see it that way, and I do not think that Paramount or Universal will have any such qualms either.
OokieSpookie
Banned
bill0527 said:
Exactly, there is no possible way to make this look noble or for the people.
It is Toshiba trying to keep from taking a huge loss, period.
Not only that, but they are screwing over new adopters knowing full well that they are on thin ice.
George Claw M.D.
Member
:lol Holy shit! That was some triple-platinum comedy, right there. My favorite part was when he said, "Those who don't own a dedicated HD-DVD player can leave the room." Almost the whole room left! :lol I don't care which side you cheer for. This video deserves a standing ovation. Even the self-admitted HD DVD fans on YouTube applauded it! That's saying something.Alcibiades said:
Edit: "BLADES OF GLORY?!! Are you FUCKING kidding me?!!" :lol
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