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[Cheebs]

A lot of people are giving Joe Six Pack too much benefit of the doubt.

.

Thank you.
which is why people here are fools for treating this like the video game market. This is the home video market, it isn't dominated by young males! The market is CONTROLLED by middle income families.


Guess what joe six pack if he gets a hdtv normally doesnt know to switch to the hd signal channels. You think he would what the difference between a upscaled dvd player and a blu-ray is? Let alone know what upscaled is?

it needs to be said again:
You guys are IDIOTS if you think video quality was the driving factory in DVD's success over VHS. It was MANY MANY MANY things including visual quality but mixed in with cheaper product, widescreen standard, extras, scene selection, lack of forced rewind, tangiable difference in how the product works compared to vhs . All this gen has is video quality nothing more.

 

[Raistlin]

want a difference?


VHS launched in the late 70's. DVD came 20 years later with almost no competition. And the reason it took over was NOT cause of video quality. It took over because of prices, lack of rewind (seriously), the ability to hold more on disk, widescreen standard, extra features, etc.... the jump to a vhs to dvd was tangable as a PRODUCT and how it worked. And again it took 20 years after VHS launched.

And guess what? It took even with that FIVE years for DVD to outsell VHS, all the way till 2003.


Blu-Ray launched only 9 years after DVD and the only difference is video quality, the product is tangabily the same. Yet you expect it to take only THREE years to overtake DVD?

This isn't video games a market dominated by young men who want the newst thing.


You guys are IDIOTS if you think video quality was the driving factory in DVD's success over VHS. It was MANY MANY MANY things including visual quality. All this gen has is video quality nothing more.

Who said it would take 3 years? :lol



I haven't paid attention to this particular argument ... I thought you were stating you think there is no possibility of either format ever replacing DVD .... :lol

 

[Cheebs]

Who said it would take 3 years? :lol



I haven't paid attention to this particular argument ... I thought you were stating you think there is no possibility of either format ever replacing DVD .... :lol

people yelled at me on the last page saying it will take 3 years and studios will delay DVD releases to push blu-ray disks.

People once again, using their ****ing NPD video game sales logic.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

you guys actually think studios will gimp dvd's to push their niche market of HD? :lol

Hey genius, did I say that? The people who buy theatrical cuts are the same people who buy Fullscreen DVDs. The J6P. These guys aren't even on the Studios' radar. For HD formats to take off the studios need to persuade those people who are active DVD renters/buyers to transition them into HD formats.

As I said, none of these will happen unless there is 1 format. Sales are just too small right now. By mid 2008, if there is 1 established format (Blu-ray or HD DVD) then you'll start to see extras and other goodies that won't be on DVD.

 

[Cheebs]

Hey genius, did I say that? The people who buy theatrical cuts are the same people who buy Fullscreen DVDs. The J6P. These guys aren't even on the Studios' radar. For HD formats to take off the studios need to persuade those people who are active DVD renters/buyers to transition them into HD formats.

As I said, none of these will happen unless there is 1 format. Sales are just too small right now. By mid 2008, if there is 1 established format (Blu-ray or HD DVD) then you'll start to see extras and other goodies that won't be on DVD.

You did say they'll release blu-ray's earlier than the dvd's you know.

also the idea that you think they will not release director's cuts on dvd is insane.
This is NOT VIDEO GAMES. They don't pressure the next gen like they do with games! Studio's bread and butter is DVD, they will cater to them FIRST and formost and blu-ray second till blu-ray over takes it.

DVD will ALWAYS come first, blu-ray second till the market shifts. They wont shift that on their own to pressure upgrading.

They wont push blu-ray to over take it with stuff like that. DVD is first in their mind.

 

[Christopher]

Cheebs are you trolling a HD/Blu Ray thread :lol?

It won't over take DVD I think people know that in this thread, what is the point?

 

[Cheebs]

It won't over take DVD I think people know that in this thread, what is the point?

they don't know that. They are telling me it will over-take it in 3 years and DVD's will be delayed and not contain director's cut in favor of blu-ray/hd-dvd.

 

[Ponn]

You did say they'll release blu-ray's earlier than the dvd's you know.

also the idea that you think they will not release director's cuts on dvd is insane.
This is NOT VIDEO GAMES. They don't pressure the next gen like they do with games!. Studio's bread and butter is DVD, they will cater to them FIRST and formost and blu-ray second till blu-ray over takes it.

DVD will ALWAYS come first, blu-ray second till the market shifts. They wont shift that on their own to pressure upgrading.

They wont push blu-ray to over take it with stuff like that. DVD is first in their mind.

Then why are you trolling in this thread, being generally disingenious and bullish, name calling and acting like a DVD fanboy???

 

[Cheebs]

Then why are you trolling in this thread, being generally disingenious and bullish, name calling and acting like a DVD fanboy???

because people are shouting made up nonsense about dvd's likely getting no director's cuts cause studios doesnt care about the format anymore?

I won't call anyone idiots and such anymore , but they do need to have some perspective on the market. This thread has grown way out of control and self-obsessed.

This thread is filled with people jacking off about their hd world taking over dvd living in a bubble and that bubble needs to be popped.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Hey genius, did I say that? The people who buy theatrical cuts are the same people who buy Fullscreen DVDs. The J6P. These guys aren't even on the Studios' radar. For HD formats to take off the studios need to persuade those people who are active DVD renters/buyers to transition them into HD formats.

As I said, none of these will happen unless there is 1 format. Sales are just too small right now. By mid 2008, if there is 1 established format (Blu-ray or HD DVD) then you'll start to see extras and other goodies that won't be on DVD.

WTF? Those are the people who drive that market. The typical middle class family who doesn't even know the difference between full screen and wide screen.

As Cheebs said...this isn't the videogame market. And considering just how wrong everyone (including me) was about that...let's not pretend to be all knowing here.

 

[Ponn]

because people are shouting made up nonsense about dvd's likely getting no director's cuts cause studios doesnt care about the format anymore?

I won't call anyone idiots and such anymore , but they do need to have some perspective on the market. This thread has grown way out of control and self-obsessed.

This thread is filled with people jacking off about their hd world taking over dvd living in a bubble and that bubble needs to be popped.

The problem is you are blowing a couple people you are having this discussion into "everyone is idiots" and then backing up alot of your points with unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence. If you honestly think this thread is bad you should just try AVS forums or one like it.

 

[Cheebs]

The problem is you are blowing a couple people you are having this discussion into "everyone is idiots" and then backing up alot of your points with unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence. If you honestly think this thread is bad you should just try AVS forums or one like it.

First off I didnt say everyone was idiots. And I shouldnt have in the first place but

I said people are idiots who believe so and so (dvd will be delayed, have no director's cut, will be dead in 3 years)..etc.

There are sane people in here but the self-obsessed ones took over this topic the last few pages.

and what anecdotal evidence? sales? who rules the market?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Hey genius, did I say that? The people who buy theatrical cuts are the same people who buy Fullscreen DVDs.

Uh, I've been buying stuff in the Original Ratio since the days of Laserdisc, but sometimes the theatrical cut is the best version of the film. These days many if not most extended cuts are about marketing and not art.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

You did say they'll release blu-ray's earlier than the dvd's you know.

I did say that. There is a very real possibility that if studios feel the prices are low enough but the market isn't taking off as they feel, this can definately happen. Maybe a week or 2 in advance.

also the idea that you think they will not release director's cuts on dvd is insane.
This is NOT VIDEO GAMES.

This is the most likely situation. Want proof? Looks at the upcoming DVD release of Heroes vs HD DVD Heroes. Those who want the extra goodies (and there is a lot of extra stuff) will have to buy the HD DVD version.

And what we'll be seeing by summer 2008 is a lot of web enabled features, something that can't be done on DVD.

Uh, I've been buying stuff in the Original Ratio since the days of Laserdisc, but sometimes the theatrical cut is the best version of the film. These days many if not most extended cuts are about marketing and not art.

That has nothing to do with it. Fact: Extended, unrated cuts outsell Theatrical cuts. What I envision is this: Example: Spiderman 4, theatrical on DVD for $19.99. Spiderman 4 on Blu-ray with Theatrical + Director's cut with seamless branching for $24.99. Which one are you buying? If there's enough players out there, that $5 extra profit is massive.

As far as VHS > DVD. How many of you had a stable internet connection in 1997? I sure as hell didn't know what DVD was until mid 1998. Internet really didn't take off until around 2000 or so. Now information is far more accessible and the uncertainty of buying something is greatly diminished.

These new formats allow you to keep your old DVDs and add new releases in High Definition. Once the tide starts turning, it will be faster than some expect.

 

[Cheebs]

I did say that. There is a very real possibility that if studios feel the prices are low enough but the market isn't taking off as they feel, this can definately happen. Maybe a week or 2 in advance.



This is the most likely situation. Want proof? Looks at the upcoming DVD release of Heroes vs HD DVD Heroes. Those who want the extra goodies (and there is a lot of extra stuff) will have to buy the HD DVD version.

And you honestly think they'd release it early? They didn't do that with DVD to VHS ever. Even after DVD took over VHS. As long as they produced both it was day and date for both.

Wow. Comparing fluff extra features to a DIRECTOR'S CUT of a movie?

 

[Ponn]

First off I didnt say everyone was idiots. And I shouldnt have in the first place but

I said people are idiots who believe so and so (dvd will be delayed, have no director's cut, will be dead in 3 years)..etc.

There are sane people in here but the self-obsessed ones took over this topic the last few pages.

and what anecdotal evidence? sales? who rules the market?

The switch over from VHS to DVD not having to do with video quality. Having worked at Blockbuster right in the middle of the transition period between 1998 and 2003 I have to say the overwhelming reason was video quality. Rarely did I hear anything about special features. In fact the majority of DVDs in that period didn't have anywhere near the special features we do now. You were lucky to get trailers. It was all about the video quality and that was the selling point of our DVD player and TV on the floor with Matrix playing. Point is theres no way to have an earmark on the exact reason why, but to relegate video quality down the way you were is a bit much.

 

[Cheebs]

The switch over from VHS to DVD not having to do with video quality.

I never said that. I said it was a reason but it was mixed in with MANY other reasons. It was a totally new product that worked and looked VERY different (menu's and all that). It was a tangiably "new" thing.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

And you honestly think they'd release it early? They didn't do that with DVD to VHS ever. Even after DVD took over VHS. As long as they produced both it was day and date for both.

Wow. Comparing fluff extra features to a DIRECTOR'S CUT of a movie?

Because they knew DVD was going to cream VHS. They didn't need to do that. And you really didn't know when a movie was coming out until you saw the ad on tv (limited internet, remember?), so it didn't make sense to release VHS and DVD on different dates. Now we see release dates months in advance. We had confirmation for Spiderman 3 on Blu-ray for Nov 2 MONTHS before the movie even hit theaters.

Look at DTS. How many DTS dvds are coming out? Can you count any? They've transitioned to High def because the guys who care about Dolby and DTS are moving towards HD. Once High Def is all the rage, Studios can take liberties. It's all about transitioning seamlessly so that it feels natural for the buyers. We're maybe 2-3 years away from that. And as I've said, I believe you'll see the decline on DVDs by 2010.

It was a totally new product that worked and looked VERY different (menu's and all that). It was a tangiably "new" thing.

So is HD DVD, and Blu-ray to a greater extent. Have you ever seen what BD-J can do? I've attended a session on Java and what the studios have in store. Menus are already light years beyond DVD and will only get better and more interactive.

The impression I'm getting from your posts is that you own neither of these formats or you wouldn't make the menu comment.

 

[Ponn]

I never said that. I said it was a reason but it was mixed in with MANY other reasons. It was a totally new product that worked and looked VERY different (menu's and all that). It was a tangiably "new" thing.

I said you were relegating it down. You said...

You guys are IDIOTS if you think video quality was the driving factory in DVD's success over VHS. It was MANY MANY MANY things including visual quality.

I would argue that video quality was indeed the driving factor. People generally want to give the mass walmart shopping user base the short end of the stick and say they don't care about video quality but if thats the case then why would they have cared about the extras of DVD like using menus and made their purchase on that?

 

[maharg]

Navigation and lack of the problems associated with video tapes (stretched tape, decks eating tapes, etc) was definitely the primary factor in me moving to dvd, and I'm definitely not a walmart mom.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Navigation and lack of the problems associated with video tapes (stretched tape, decks eating tapes, etc) was definitely the primary factor in me moving to dvd, and I'm definitely not a walmart mom.

Those are definately huge factors. It's hard to pin point which was more important than others because it was different for different people.

For me personally, moving into VHS>DVD>HD was due to sound. I have Reference speakers and quality audio equipment. Sound is more important to me than picture. DVD gave us 2.0 to 5.1 and some 6.1. HD gives us 5.1 - 7.1 lossless audio, which is the ultimate form.

Fact is, this will be the LAST form of packaged media because it is as close to Master video as you'll get and master audio as well in a packaged format. This is why the war exists. Lots of $$$ to be had here.

 

[captive]

As do I. I keep seeing "bu bu bu BRD is selling better than DVD was" from a lot of people with nothing to back it up.

I gave you f'ing link, so stop with your crying.
You asked for a link, got a link, then disregard said link.

 

[weehomer]

I gave you f'ing link, so stop with your crying.
You asked for a link, got a link, then disregard said link.

Sorry, I missed the link.

Blu-ray had a 100,000 selling title faster than DVD. One title still doesn't tell me much.

What's the overall Blu-ray sales compared to DVD during the same time period, though? That's what I'm more interested in.

 

[The Main Event]

Sorry, I missed the link.

Blu-ray had a 100,000 selling title faster than DVD. One title still doesn't tell me much.

What's the overall Blu-ray sales compared to DVD during the same time period, though? That's what I'm more interested in.

Not selling, shipped. Huge difference. I think the overall sales for Casino Royale is something like 60-70K right now.

Who said it would take 3 years?

BDA did.

http://www.itpro.co.uk/news/107799/cebit-2007-bluray-association-has-threeyear-plan-to-replace-dvds.html

CeBIT 2007: Blu-ray Association has three-year plan to replace DVDs

And they're ****ing crazy to think that.

 

[rubso]

I think the factors that helped Casino Royale to reach 100k milestone is that sony was giving away some copies free with the PS3 especially in Europe and Australia, IMO.

 

[weehomer]

I think the factors that helped Casino Royale to reach 100k milestone is that sony was giving away some copies free with the PS3 especially in Europe and Australia, IMO.

Exactly. And saying "Blu-ray is selling faster than DVD was" is very different than "Blu-ray had a title to ship 100k faster than DVD".

Have any sale figures, captive?

 

[kaching]

I notice that Cheebs tends to studiously ignore my replies every time he gets a burr up his ass about anyone suggesting potential success for either of the HD disc formats. Maybe he just has me on ignore.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Add me to the list that doesn't think DVD will get replaced soon. Nor do I think that's the point. The point is mass-market HD, which is coming. You will always see DVDs, for the simple fact that the players are backwards-compatible, and plenty of things don't merit the HD treatment. But at the current rate, it won't be long before all nre movie releases and most catalog movies are available in HD. I do think there will come a time when all players are HD capable, simple becuase it won't cost anything significant to include it.


Cheebs is railing against a few, but not all.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think the factors that helped Casino Royale to reach 100k milestone is that sony was giving away some copies free with the PS3 especially in Europe and Australia, IMO.

Pack-ins are not included in that number, sorry, thanks for playing.

 

[rubso]

Pack-ins are not included in that number, sorry, thanks for playing.

it was only "packed in" with the first 20,000 Aussie PS3, and it was a give away for the first x to register at PSN in Europe.
btw, Source on "Pack-ins are not included in that number"?

 

[Raistlin]

For me personally, moving into VHS>DVD>HD was due to sound. I have Reference speakers and quality audio equipment. Sound is more important to me than picture. DVD gave us 2.0 to 5.1 and some 6.1. HD gives us 5.1 - 7.1 lossless audio, which is the ultimate form.

Out of curiosity ... what is your audio setup?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

it was only "packed in" with the first 20,000 Aussie PS3, and it was a give away for the first x to register at PSN in Europe.
btw, Source on "Pack-ins are not included in that number"?

Source that they are? The numbers we regularly get (Nielsen scan numbers) don't, as mention a lot in this very thread.

Further evidence, if they did, Talledgega Nights would have hit several hundred thousand, more than casino Royale.

 

[Raistlin]

Exactly. And saying "Blu-ray is selling faster than DVD was" is very different than "Blu-ray had a title reach 100k faster than DVD".

I'm pretty sure that is the case as well though ... and I thought it was posted in this thread?


* this will involve much searching *

 

[ManaByte]

Source that they are? The numbers we regularly get (Nielsen scan numbers) don't, as mention a lot in this very thread.

Further evidence, if they did, Talledgega Nights would have hit several hundred thousand, more than casino Royale.

The Talladega Nights pack-in was a different release than the regular Blu-Ray release (different SKUs). The free Casino Royale was the same disc available in stores.

 

[djkimothy]

There sure is a lot of new comers to this thread lately. Hey! Welcome!

 

[weehomer]

Not selling, shipped. Huge difference. I think the overall sales for Casino Royale is something like 60-70K right now.

Ah, okay.

So is HD DVD, and Blu-ray to a greater extent. Have you ever seen what BD-J can do? I've attended a session on Java and what the studios have in store. Menus are already light years beyond DVD and will only get better and more interactive.

The impression I'm getting from your posts is that you own neither of these formats or you wouldn't make the menu comment.

The point is that DVD menus were mind blowing at the time, and there was nothing even remotely like it before. I remember fast forwarding and rewinding VHS all over the place to get to something I wanted to watch. That, being smaller and looking like a CD were just as much selling points to the masses as was the picture quality.

HD DVD & BRD menus while cool, is just a bit more whiz-bang than DVD, but hasn't given me the same thrill as when I saw my first DVD. Yes, it's nice that I can bring up the menu while the movie still plays, but it's hardly revolutionary. And yes, I have both a HD DVD and Blu-ray player.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

The Talladega Nights pack-in was a different release than the regular Blu-Ray release (different SKUs). The free Casino Royale was the same disc available in stores.

No Talledega Nights sku showed up. If they counted pack-ins, the pack-in version would have hit much higher, much faster. If that was the point of the PR, they'd have claimed it much sooner.

Nonpartisan Mana spins it again.

 

[rubso]

Ignatz Mouse Conclusions worth a new gif by me,

Spoiler

btw Ignatz, wait for the next gif when we hit 100 pages in this thread, you're going to love it =P

 

[titiklabingapat]

Navigation and lack of the problems associated with video tapes (stretched tape, decks eating tapes, etc) was definitely the primary factor in me moving to dvd, and I'm definitely not a walmart mom.

I agree. I wasn't as enamored at technology back then and din't really follow anything. I was(or still am) the Joe Six Pack everyone keeps on talking about.

I thought DVD was expensive but I also thought that the no rewind thing and being able to jump to the next chapter was DVDs coolest feature. I considered improved visuals as a bonus, not the main selling point because I was content with VHS quality stuff. Hell, I still use my VCR for vintage porn :lol.

 

[djkimothy]

I would shoot myself in the eyes if I had to put up with VHS level quality. I opted in the DVD scene for the video quality. We had a 52" rear projection TV with surround sound when we moved to DVD, Gladiator looked and sounded amazing.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I think the factors that helped Casino Royale to reach 100k milestone is that sony was giving away some copies free with the PS3 especially in Europe and Australia, IMO.

100k was for US. Nothing was given out free here. Casino Royale is now at 81,000. It is still the single highest selling HD disc. Deaprted on Blu-ray is 2nd with 67k.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

No Talledega Nights sku showed up. If they counted pack-ins, the pack-in version would have hit much higher, much faster. If that was the point of the PR, they'd have claimed it much sooner.

No response to this? If Casino Royale counted, why didn't Talledega Nights pack-in version? Wow, they got to 100K months earlier than they claim!

I can't find a general reference to BluRay and HD-DVD outstripping DVD's early performance, just in the PR from Sony and Warner Brothers. So I'll back off that claim, and merely say y'all are crazy if you think this is a slow start for a format, and weren't playing attention in 1997. I was, I know, I bought a DVD player in 1998. CHeebs is right in thinking that you can't use a VG COnsole mentality-- these new formats have a longer ramp-up time, by far.

Of course they aren't selling a significant fraction of DVD sales, they haven't hit mass-market prices yet.

 

[rubso]

100k was for US. Nothing was given out free here. Casino Royale is now at 81,000. It is still the single highest selling HD disc. Deaprted on Blu-ray is 2nd with 67k.

I can't find any website that says 100k was for US only, links 4 me plz?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

100k was for US. Nothing was given out free here. Casino Royale is now at 81,000. It is still the single highest selling HD disc. Deaprted on Blu-ray is 2nd with 67k.

Don't confuse him with facts.

"Facts facts facts facts facts."

 

[rubso]

Don't confuse him with facts.

"Facts facts facts facts facts."

:lol

 

[Zoe]

No response to this? If Casino Royale counted, why didn't Talledega Nights pack-in version? Wow, they got to 100K months earlier than they claim!

Talladega Nights was a gimped version. Wasn't the Casino Royale promo for the real deal?

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Talladega Nights was a gimped version. Wasn't the Casino Royale promo for the real deal?

Actually, there is a difference between the Casino Royale sent out with PSN signups and the ones in store.

the PSN ones start off with a 3-5 minute BD demo reel.

And it's marked NOT FOR SALE OR RENTAL on the back.

Also it's all regions compatible.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Talladega Nights was a gimped version. Wasn't the Casino Royale promo for the real deal?

Yeah, but if they count pack-ins, why not count the gimped version? It's still a title to get to 100K far earlier than anything else.


Unless of course, they aren't counting pack-ins.... :O

Edit: Crayon: "facts facts facts facts facts facts facts"

 

[rubso]

Actually, there is a difference between the Casino Royale sent out with PSN signups and the ones in store.

the PSN ones start off with a 3-5 minute BD demo reel.

And it's marked NOT FOR SALE OR RENTAL on the back.

Also it's all regions compatible.

My Australian friend says his copy it has no special marks or something like that on the back, yet he talked about other Blu-ray give away and discounts for PS3 owners, don't know if that happened in NA and EU?

 

[Chemo]

What the **** is up with this thread today?

I have a really good idea to everyone coming in here: Glance up, at the top of the screen, where the name of the thread is listed. Actually, wait, here, I'll make it easier:

Bluray/HD-DVD: Bluray takeover watch

That's funny. I don't see anything in there about HD formats versus DVD. What do you know -- all of this shit is wildly off-topic and totally derailing the thread even worse than this morning's I-sold-my-PS3 argument. So please, if you want to preach the virtues of SD, and if you want to talk about how DVD is here to stay forever no matter what, click that nice little SEARCH button at the top of the screen, type in "DVD prison rapes HD media" or whatever terms you think you might pull up what you're looking for with, and post in that thread. If you don't find the appropriate thread then make it.

This thread was a good thread yesterday, and today it is shit. Please stop posting in it if you aren't going to contribute to the topic, which is Blu-ray versus HD DVD.