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[Days like these...]

That article is just a bunch of PR bullshit.

Kinda like back in January when Sony proclaimed the format war over and HD DVD dead? Right?

 

[Eggo]

1080p/24 isnt a big deal unless your TV accepts it.
the hd dvd addon is going to output at 30 or 60 frames per second and it will look fine.

If you do have a TV that accepts the 1080p/24 signal then definitely get a standalone hd dvd player.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...51&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=11040884

That's my TV, the Sony Bravia LCD KDL-40V2500. It looks like it doesn't support 1080p/24, so 360 add-on FTW?

 

[Oni Jazar]

Currently, next-gen audio is not a priority for me. My receiver is a few years old, so I doubt it has HD-audio.

Standalone players convert the HD-audio to uncompressed 5.1 PCM and output the audio to 5.1 channel outputs which most receivers have. (Your receiver probably accepts this)

The PS3 outputs PCM5.1 through HDMI only and the 360 does not output PCM5.1 at all.

It's an impressive difference from DD5.1 and I'm not an audiophile.

 

[Eggo]

Not sure if this was mentioned earlier, but it's news to me. According to the weekly printed circular on best buy's website, if you buy the 360 HD-DVD add-on, you get two free HD-DVD movies: Breach and the Bourne Supremacy. And the add-on comes with King Kong, so you're getting 3 movies for free.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

If the $199 was a mistake, what's the lowest street pricve for HD-DVD today?

 

[Kleegamefan]

I know this isnt really BRD/HDDVD releated..

but if anyone wants a new TV, my friend just got the new 50" Panny Plasmas (TH-50PZ700U) and it is absolutely amazing looking. I have a Pio ProFHD1 and his new TV absolutely wipes the floor with it.. its the best looking set Ive ever seen.. black levels are CRT quality, IMO. Color reproduction is great. and its only 2800

Im going to get one myself, but Im waiting for the 750 series to come out later this month/early next... it adds better red color reproduction and a "reference" setting that allows for nearly spot on greyscale/gamma and color settings.. for only 400 bucks more.

Do you not know about the 8G Pios, which should blow away just about every flat panel out there?


You have an Elite FHD1.....trust me....stick with Pioneer....

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Kinda like back in January when Sony proclaimed the format war over and HD DVD dead? Right?

Maybe not dead, but I don't see HD-DVD coming back from the beating they've taken.

 

[ChrisJames]

Maybe not dead, but I don't see HD-DVD coming back from the beating they've taken.

Getting beat by a few hundred thousand in disc sales isn't that much of a beating, especially considering that we're still basically in the first year of these formats and only have maybe 2-3% of all possible HDTV owners on board...

Yeah, I know we're beating a dead horse on this topic, but I had to get my 2 cents in

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Getting beat by a few hundred thousand in disc sales isn't that much of a beating, especially considering that we're still basically in the first year of these formats and only have maybe 2-3% of all possible HDTV owners on board...

Yeah, I know we're beating a dead horse on this topic, but I had to get my 2 cents in

When the trend is there, and there's little to no logical factors that can turn around that trend, yeah, it's as good as dead.

Prices get cheaper? Well, BDA is sitting on a price premium, rather than selling BD for a loss (with exception of the PS3... that is to say, they can drop their prices). It's going to get its interactivty specs up and running later this year. And when PS3 prices drop, it'll get another huge boost.

At this stage in the format war; success will be determined by content... and I wager, it'll continue to be the determining factor, until HD-DVD falls.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Maybe not dead, but I don't see HD-DVD coming back from the beating they've taken.

It's entirely possible that due to low player prices, HD DVD can gain a substantial software sales lead by smart decisions: dropping the combos, or combo prices, etc... However, the point of this format war was ALWAYS about CE companies. They designed the formats, with their R&D money. They give the movie studios the canvas to paint on. Studios will make money from DVDs regardless. HD at the moment is something on the side. Not so with the CE giants. HD is their bread and butter because they can't make money from DVD players anymore. Those who bought high end DVD players have moved to HD. There's not much to be made from $100 players.

So, with $199 players or less, who's going to tango with Toshiba and their subsidized players, even if HD DVD wins? That's why as much as we like lower prices, it's not as good a thing for this industry.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

It's entirely possible that due to low player prices, HD DVD can gain a substantial software sales lead by smart decisions: dropping the combos, or combo prices, etc... However, the point of this format war was ALWAYS about CE companies. They designed the formats, with their R&D money. They give the movie studios the canvas to paint on. Studios will make money from DVDs regardless. HD at the moment is something on the side. Not so with the CE giants. HD is their bread and butter because they can't make money from DVD players anymore. Those who bought high end DVD players have moved to HD. There's not much to be made from $100 players.

So, with $199 players or less, who's going to tango with Toshiba and their subsidized players, even if HD DVD wins? That's why as much as we like lower prices, it's not as good a thing for this industry.

It's possible that CE companies may flood the market with low quality BD players to meet the cost of HD-DVD; once it's dead, they retract the line and say that they did so due to the fact that those players were buggy/faulty/did not meet customer expectations.

... at least, that's how I would play it, if I really had to combat them on the price front.

For now, they haven't dropped their prices, because there's no reason to; they have the content advantage, and that's helping them ride through at higher prices.

 

[mrklaw]

Standalone players convert the HD-audio to uncompressed 5.1 PCM and output the audio to 5.1 channel outputs which most receivers have. (Your receiver probably accepts this)

The PS3 outputs PCM5.1 through HDMI only and the 360 does not output PCM5.1 at all.

It's an impressive difference from DD5.1 and I'm not an audiophile.

even if you don't have HDMI, if you have analog inputs and a good standalone player, you can still access the uncompressed audio.

And its *much* better than DD5.1. Dynamic range especially is great.

 

[gofreak]

Possibly as a response to Toshiba's release, Sony has said that up to 600k blu-ray players may be shipped to the US this year (and no, they're not counting PS3s here, as they compare it to a figure of 100k last year ).

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aXdV46K714xI&refer=us

``You'll see growth in multiples of five or six times'' for Blu-ray player shipments in the U.S. in 2007 from a year earlier, Waynick told reporters at a meeting. ``A lot of that will depend how competitive'' it becomes, he said.

The company manufactures its Blu-ray players at a factory in Kisarazu, Chiba prefecture, east of Tokyo.

``The movies are very compelling,'' Waynick said, without disclosing any titles. Out of the top 20 blockbusters, ``there were 14 or 15 that were exclusive Blu-ray.''

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Are we really quibbling over Sony's bravado (which I don't recall) vs a very clear distortion of facts by Toshiba? Point successfully derailed.

 

[StoOgE]

Do you not know about the 8G Pios, which should blow away just about every flat panel out there?


You have an Elite FHD1.....trust me....stick with Pioneer....

Yeah, I read a bit more about them.. actual 1080p 24 at 72hz sounds alot nicer than the TV converting it to a 60hz refresh rate.. when to the 1080p Pio's come out, I know the initial launch isnt for 1080p units? Because my friends new Panny blows my FHD1 away...

Im such a sucker for new TV's.. Im sure by summer of next year I'll be replacing whatever I buy with something even better.. I really am a CE companies dream.. every year I fall for it. :lol

 

[Oni Jazar]

even if you don't have HDMI, if you have analog inputs and a good standalone player, you can still access the uncompressed audio.

Yeah, that's what I meant in my first line. You don't need a brand new receiver to enjoy HD sound on a standalone player. I hope it was clear.

 

[jjasper]

Interesting release from Toshiba

Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD Player
Toshiba cuts its HD DVD sales forecast by 44%

As the battle between the Blu-ray and HD DVD disc standard slithers along, both camps are looking for ways to get a "leg up" on the other.

Both sides have looked to consoles to increase marketshare. Microsoft's Xbox 360 can be equipped with a $199 HD DVD add-on and every Sony PlayStation 3 console comes equipped with a Blu-ray drive. The inclusion of the Blu-ray drive on the PS3 instantly gave Sony some serious firepower in the next generation high-definition wars.

Toshiba has countered by offering promotions to boost the sales of its HD DVD players. The company has a current promotion where customers who purchase a Toshiba HD DVD player can receive five free HD DVDs via a mail-in rebate.

This week, Toshiba is also offering a $100 instant discount on all HD DVD players to celebrate "Father's Day." The discount effectively brings the price of the low-end HD-A2 to $299.

In addition, Toshiba announced efforts to include HD DVD drives on all of its notebooks next year. Toshiba shipped 9.2 million notebooks in 2006, so making the drive standard issue would do wonders for boosting HD DVD penetration.

Despite Toshiba efforts to latch onto the console market, offer special promotions and expand its use of HD DVD drive in the mobile sector, the company is revising its forecast for HD DVD player sales. Unfortunately for Toshiba, the forecast is one that is trending downward.

The company announced that it lowered its North American sales forecasts for calendar year 2007 from 1.8 million units to 1 million units -- a decrease of 44 percent. The adjustment for the North American market will also affect global sales forecasts, but no estimate was given by Yoshihide Fujii, Toshiba's head of consumer electronics. "Obviously we are going to have to lower our previous global estimate."

Toshiba cites lower than expected unit sales for the lower forecast.

 

[Oni Jazar]

In other news Microsoft sent HD DVD to die:

http://homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?sec_id=2&&article_ID=10757

If Microsoft has its way, DVD, Blu-Ray Disc and HD DVD will all be rendered obsolete within 10 years, according to Richard Doherty, Microsoft's program manager for Media Entertainment Convergence.

“I don't know that [HD] will be delivered on an optical disc in 5 to 10 years,” he said, pointing to downloads and broadband delivery. “At Microsoft, we'd rather it wasn't [on a disc]."

Doherty later added: “this will be the last optical [home entertainment] generation. If this one survives."

 

[Luckyman]

60% is horrible for HD-DVD. It was first to market and the prices are way lower.

 

[teiresias]

Interesting release from Toshiba

but . . . but . . . but . . . $199!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jjasper]

Now high school football teams across the country can learn about teamwork, overcoming adversity, and all that jazz in HD

Edit: Paramount has made an announcement of all kinds of awesomeness with
The Jack Ryan Collection
Face/Off
Top Gun

Paramount Home Entertainment has announced 'The Jack Ryan Collection,' 'Face/Off (Special Collector's Edition),' 'Disturbia' starring Shia LaBeouf, and 'Top Gun' are all coming to HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc in the coming months.

While Paramount has not released any disc information for these titles, we can tell you 'Disturbia' will be released on August 7, 'Face/Off (Special Collector's Edition)' will span two discs and be released September 11, 'The Jack Ryan Collection' will be released September 25, and 'Top Gun' will take off on October 2.

'The Jack Ryan Collection' will include 'The Sum of All Fears,' 'Clear and Present Danger,' 'The Hunt For Red October,' and 'Patriot Games.'

On the speculation front, Paramount has announced 'Saturday Night Fever' on DVD will be available September 18. Since the studio has already confirmed a high definition release, don't be surprised if it doesn't hit stores the same date.

 

[StoOgE]

Face/Off, Top Gun and Hunt for red october FTW!

 

[Rabid Wolverine]

Hunt For Red October and Face Off Definitly!

Please have PCM or TrueHD Sound! (blu-ray)

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Bad day for HD-DVD.

Aside: For the record, if I never see another "But but but" or "bububu.." variant on a message board I'll be happy. It's very obnoxious, and now very very tired.

 

[jjasper]

For those that only want Hunt for Red October and not the other ones it will probably be like the MI pack where you will be forced to buy the package for a few months followed by individual releases so time later

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Bad day for HD-DVD.

Aside: For the record, if I never see another "But but but" or "bububu.." variant on a message board I'll be happy. It's very obnoxious, and now very very tired.

But... but... bu...

I got nothing.

 

[jjasper]

Sony's response:

Sony May Hike Blu-ray Shipments by 600 Percent
The company says demand will soar due to exclusive titles.
By Phillip Swann

Washington, D.C. (June 12, 2007) -- Sony said yesterday that it might increase shipments of Blu-ray players in the U.S. by 600 percent this year.

That's according to an article from Bloomberg News.

The news service reports that Sony believes that Blu-ray sales will rise dramatically this year due to the exclusive release of several blockbuster films on the high-def DVD format.

Blu-ray and rival HD DVD, which is backed by Toshiba, are battling for the new high-def DVD audience. But four of the eight major film studios are backing Blu-ray exclusively with only one (Universal) supporting HD DVD exclusively.

Sony shipped less than 100,000 Blu-ray players in the U.S. last year, but could ship up to 600,000 in 2007, according to Randy Waynick, a company senior vice president.

`"You'll see growth in multiples of five or six times," Waynick said, according to Bloomberg.

He said actual shipments will depend on how competitive Blu-ray becomes. But Waynick added that the upcoming release of several blockbuster films on Blu-ray should drive sales. He said 14 or 15 of the top 20 films this year will be Blu-ray exclusives.

"The movies are very compelling," Waynick said, according to Bloomberg.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

If I had time to kill, I would be reading avsforums right now. I imagine it is entertaining.

 

[teiresias]

If I had time to kill, I would be reading avsforums right now. I imagine it is entertaining.

Not too busy over there right now, actually.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Face/Off was the first DVD I ever bought. It's good but I don't think I'll buy it again this time.

 

[jjasper]

Amazon 40% off on some HD and BD disks

here

 

[captive]

Now high school football teams across the country can learn about teamwork, overcoming adversity, and all that jazz in HD

Edit: Paramount has made an announcement of all kinds of awesomeness with
The Jack Ryan Collection
Face/Off
Top Gun

Wow, my wallet is pre-emptive crying, i will buy every single one of those except for disturbia. yes even remember the titans.
At least i dont own any of them currently.
Funny, i believe my dad still has clear and present danger and patriot games on Laser disc i know we have at least one of the two if not both.

PS give us high def audio paramount, quit ****ing being stingy!

 

[jjasper]

Wow, my wallet is pre-emptive crying, i will buy every single one of those except for disturbia. yes even remember the titans.
At least i dont own any of them currently.
Funny, i believe my dad still has clear and present danger and patriot games on Laser disc i know we have at least one of the two if not both.

PS give us high def audio paramount, quit ****ing being stingy!

Yeah I will get all of them too (except Disturbia), but jesus I have already put a hurting on my wallet this month in terms of movies. I really think I am becoming addicted so far:

Apocalypto
A Scanner Darkly
Weeds Season 1
Rocky Balboa
The Tailor of Panama
Memento
Layer Cake

Toshiba HD-A2
Brotherhood of the Wolf (UK import)
Ultimate Matrix Collection

Granted I wouldn't not have bought a lot of this stuff if it wasn't on sale. I got the player for $199 which includes 5 movies, The Matrix collection was 20% of the price at deepdiscount, Scanner Darkly was $15, B2G1F deal, and Weeds BD was cheaper at walmart than the SD version(?)


But man I really need to stop for a little while

 

[Rabid Wolverine]

Amazon 40% off on some HD and BD disks

here

Black Rain = mine.

 

[VanMardigan]

lttp: I just got my Matrix Trilogy today (I bought it for $53), and briefly watched bits and pieces. It's obvious WB put some real effort here, it looks fantastic. I now have the HD DVD heavy hitters: King Kong, Planet Earth, Batman Begins, and Matrix. All reference material video, with Matrix being my favorite so far (but I've yet to finish watching all three movies or all of Planet Earth for that matter). Can't comment on the audio (I have the add-on), but once I upgrade my surround sound I imagine I'll be in A/V heaven.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Can't comment on the audio (I have the add-on), but once I upgrade my surround sound I imagine I'll be in A/V heaven.

I'll comment for you. The TrueHD Track on the Matrix movies are frikking amazing! Really nice!

 

[StoOgE]

The Matrix sequals certainly look better than the first movie if you havent watched them yet. Eye candy is a treat, and the audio with True HD is simply amazing.. My sub is pushed harder in that movie than any other I own (cept maybe Riddick, which is a treat visually and aurolly as well)... luckily its up to the job (hugs axiom)

I even enjoyed the second movie a good deal more than I recalled in theaters.

The third one is still terrible. Has some great action scenes though.. too bad it makes almost no sense.

The best part of the third is when Neo gets stuck in the train station between worlds, not only do they not explain it.. the Merrovingian asks Trinity if they know how it happened and she says "No" and he says "I didnt think so".. so not only is it a huge plot whole, they acknowledge it IN THE MOVIE. Ugg. :lol

Dont even get me started on the glowy eye thingy at the end. GAA

 

[captive]

Uhg, im about to order my sub, and i can go pick up my center channel any time i want, but all of it is useless because the onkyo 705 is apparently not going to come out till july. :-(
I already have the fronts sides and surrounds. :-( :-(

 

[mrklaw]

Uhg, im about to order my sub, and i can go pick up my center channel any time i want, but all of it is useless because the onkyo 705 is apparently not going to come out till july. :-(
I already have the fronts sides and surrounds. :-( :-(

why are you waiting for the 705?

/leading question

 

[captive]

why are you waiting for the 705?

/leading question

Because i dont think the 805 is worth if for basically 30 watts more per channel and manufactured in a different place.
And the 605 doesnt have the processing power via DSPs that i want.

 

[mrklaw]

Because i dont think the 805 is worth if for basically 30 watts more per channel and manufactured in a different place.
And the 605 doesnt have the processing power via DSPs that i want.

ooh, good answer.

But why not one of the current range?

 

[captive]

ooh, good answer.

But why not one of the current range?

idunno because i want the newest latest and greatest? :-\

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Uhg, im about to order my sub, and i can go pick up my center channel any time i want, but all of it is useless because the onkyo 705 is apparently not going to come out till july. :-(
I already have the fronts sides and surrounds. :-( :-(

'

For receiver, honestly, get the Onkyo 875. You'll thank me later.

What size is your room in cubic foot (LxWxH = cubic foot). And how much are you looking to spend on the subwoofer?

 

[captive]

'

For receiver, honestly, get the Onkyo 875. You'll thank me later.

What size is your room in cubic foot (LxWxH = cubic foot). And how much are you looking to spend on the subwoofer?

I believe its 15x 12 or 14 with vaulted ceiling(i forgot the measurements), but im pretty set on getting the SVS PB10 NSD.
Its certainly not anywhere near ideal for a theater room, it has a connecting hallway as well as a large open area connecting to another room.


ouch@ the 875, way out of my price range. Im going to get a new TV too, i have grown out of 34 inches of crt goodness.

 

[VanMardigan]

I'm pretty much in the same spot you're in captive. I outgrew my 30' crt (plus it's having issues) and I want to upgrade my audio as well. Wasn't there a TrueHD/DTS MA Onkyo coming out soon for about $500-600?

 

[DarkJediKnight]

I believe its 15x 12 or 14 with vaulted ceiling(i forgot the measurements), but im pretty set on getting the SVS PB10 NSD.
Its certainly not anywhere near ideal for a theater room, it has a connecting hallway as well as a large open area connecting to another room.


ouch@ the 875, way out of my price range. Im going to get a new TV too, i have grown out of 34 inches of crt goodness.

The PB10 is a great choice at normal listening levels in a room of 2000ci+. If you listen to near reference levels then I'd suggest the PB12 because it'll have more output and slam. If you keep the PB10 near a wall, you should get 17hz extention with pretty good Dbls. SVS allows 45 days to try out so if you think it lacks some volume punch in your room.

My room is 12x14x9 and I'm running the monster 20-39PCI+. Massive volume but I do wish I got a box sub instead because they can dip down to 12hz and maintain output. Mine goes down to 16.5 in my room but loses a lot of output that low. I heard the PB12+ and I wish I got that instead but those take up so much space.

 

[captive]

I'm pretty much in the same spot you're in captive. I outgrew my 30' crt (plus it's having issues) and I want to upgrade my audio as well. Wasn't there a TrueHD/DTS MA Onkyo coming out soon for about $500-600?

Yea mine is having issues as well, probably mostly my fault from moving the TV.
But when you watch a movie with black bars, or your in the PS3s XMB with the lines they are curved and its driving me nuts.

And yes all of new onkyos 605 and above decode DTS MA and trueHD, the 705 is like 700 or 800 the 805 is 899 at jr.com and the 605 can be found for 499.
BUT, right now the reciever decoding DTS MA and trueHD is useless since no players send these codecs via bitstream.

Great to hear Darkjedi, I think ill try out the 10, i dont imagine myself absolutly cranking it very loud, i like to watch movies above "normal" but i only crank my system for music.
So i think i will be fine with it, and it will be next to a wall.

 

[mrklaw]

BUT, right now the reciever decoding DTS MA and trueHD is useless since no players send these codecs via bitstream.

*thats* what I was digging for. Good to see there are wise people out there that aren't being fooled by HDMI 1.3 hype.

 

[captive]

*thats* what I was digging for. Good to see there are wise people out there that aren't being fooled by HDMI 1.3 hype.

I have read the entire "onkyo XXX XXX XXX reciever anticipation thread" at avs. ;-)

 

[DarkJediKnight]

*thats* what I was digging for. Good to see there are wise people out there that aren't being fooled by HDMI 1.3 hype.

The plan is, CE companies are holding off on allowing bitstream of audio codecs until their big receivers hit (Onkyo 800 series, Pioneer Elite 94, Denon 3808, Yamaha v1800 etc...). They know that if the Onkyo 605 could do bitstream, a ton of people will buy it and when the big receivers hit, it won't sell as well - where the manufacturers make the most profit due to higher margin.

So here's what's going to happen:

Come late summer when the big boys come to play, you might see sudden firmware updates to allow bitstreaming of audio codecs. That's just a theory of mine.