Well considering Trump spent months proclaiming that the only way he could lose is if the election was rigged, it wouldn't be that unexpected.
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Hillary Clinton, "presented" with "signs" of "vote hacking", "is mulling" recounts.
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Article: experts present discrepancies to Clinton campaign that they consider sufficient to warrant recounts.
Response: without proof of hacking this is bullshit.
I find that odd. You would never really know if actual vote manipulation happened unless there was an investigation. With Russian hacking and now this I think the question needs to be seriously and carefully considered.
Their objective isn't to prove that there was vote hacking or vote manipulation but to present a case worthy of investigating to see if such tampering occurred.
Response: without proof of hacking this is bullshit.
I find that odd. You would never really know if actual vote manipulation happened unless there was an investigation. With Russian hacking and now this I think the question needs to be seriously and carefully considered.
Their objective isn't to prove that there was vote hacking or vote manipulation but to present a case worthy of investigating to see if such tampering occurred.
gamechanger87
Member
Unfortunately, if you move away from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, it's all older, once-working class individuals and their not-working-class-but-respect-the-working-class kids who totally bought into Trump's bullshit. There should totally be a recount just in case (Anything to stop the rise of Neo-Nazis, the temporary death of civil rights, and an environmental crisis going unabated), but I painfully admit Trump won southwest PA outside of Allegheny County (AKA Pittsburgh & its suburbs) at the least.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Clinton pushes for a recount across the board.
Trump gains Virginia.
Trump gains Virginia.
GoldenEye 007
Member
Well, the receipt would have the votes selected printed on it. And yeah, it would require paper/ink. I'm thinking something like what cash registers use.
But the point would be the electronic is primary for the speed in vote reporting. Then if discrepancies are noticed or whatever, the paper is there for backup.
We're assuming that's the only thing they've found though.
For example there's some weird discrepancies with some Wisconsin counties, like this shows
https://twitter.com/ElectProject/status/801084482153512960/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
I doubt it was rigged, but it's enough to make me not be completely confident in the results.
An audit would at the least erase doubt. Though the consequences could be be pretty catastrophic. But then so will a Trump presidency be probably.
I'm not really sure what the best path forward is.
gamechanger87
Member
Sorry, I never meant to quote you. My response was more directed at the article and not your post
broncobuster
Banned
If Trump won the popular vote, has evidence of voter suppression for the other party, and had Russia and outside agencies trying to sway the election against him for months, maybe he'd have a leg to stand on. And most Republicans wouldn't be dismissive of his claims.
Darth Pinche
Member
This will come to nothing but I can dream.
if a revote ever happens, the turn out will probably be even less, so that won't help anyone.
if a revote ever happens, the turn out will probably be even less, so that won't help anyone.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Let's say they investigate and find fraud. Somehow electors choose Hillary Clinton as President. Here's what would happen:
- Republicans would never accept that.
- Donald Trump refusing to concede, set's up a shadow government in Trump Tower. (edit: as in shadow cabinet)
- Political chaos for the forseeable future.
- Total and complete obstruction in the House & Senate.
- Possible armed uprising among Trump's deplorables.
That's just the beginning. Think you'd get supreme court nominations at least? Naw, no nominations of anything for 4 years. No confirmation of cabinet. No nothing. Government shutdown just as a start.
Donald Trump could be very bad, but I think the above is actually worse.
BronsonLee
Member
aspiegamer
Member
There's no way this changes the actual result of the election even if carried out, but... to speak as a paranoid GOP lawmaker might, "we must investigate all forms of voter fraud and irregularities, even those that don't exist!"
Sure, why not? As a Clinton voter, I will smack any other that claims this magically changes the game and smack any opponent who thinks a typical Clinton voter is this stupid.
Sure, why not? As a Clinton voter, I will smack any other that claims this magically changes the game and smack any opponent who thinks a typical Clinton voter is this stupid.
If that's what the votes add up to, that's fine.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Dare to dream again!
Again, their objective isn't to prove hacking or manipulation happened but rather to say that data suggests possible manipulation in a close election and that should warrant an independent review of the votes.
You're making arguments against non-existent claims.
If that happened Trump supporters and the GOP would unanimously support him in doing so.
Perhaps we could learn something from them.
Theonik
Member
Not in every system and not in the suggested system here.
And even in such a system, if you are asking people to print votes to put in ballot boxes, you are merely replacing the pencil. The paper backup is only useful if you use it anyway so in most cases you are at the mercy of the software which is effectively a blackbox.
A manual recount solves this then but you basically admitted that it is necessary to have any confidence to the system. There is no way of noticing discrepancies unless you do a manual count anyway so you lose the speed advantage too.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Same boat. Let's take this shit into overtime.
echoshifting
Banned
Exactly. There would be no hesitation.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You get the speed and ease of results with digital to paper ballot systems.
And a cross check if needed.
Of course they have not, they have not been given access to the machines to check.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
1) she conceded before the votes were entirely counted anyway
2) trump just brought up the "we don't need to investigate her anymore" -- imagine this would become #1 priority very easily if she contests and loses (which has a very high likelihood to be the result anyway)
3) this would assuredly go to the supreme court, would cause a constitutional crisis if it wasnt resolved before the 20th
4) trump is already getting top secret briefings etc for being a "president-elect"
5) more chaos in the populace than otherwise needed
its not going to happen unless Clinton really just DGAF
2) trump just brought up the "we don't need to investigate her anymore" -- imagine this would become #1 priority very easily if she contests and loses (which has a very high likelihood to be the result anyway)
3) this would assuredly go to the supreme court, would cause a constitutional crisis if it wasnt resolved before the 20th
4) trump is already getting top secret briefings etc for being a "president-elect"
5) more chaos in the populace than otherwise needed
its not going to happen unless Clinton really just DGAF
Sorry, I never meant to quote you. My response was more directed at the article and not your post
No worries, It's all good.
Chaos2Frozen
Member
So cheating is a legit campaign strategy now.
BronsonLee
Member
I mean yeah
It's a race to the bottom b, Republicans just got there first with that voter suppression deal
This concerns me, no doubt, but:
Hillary Clinton is an institution woman. She, like other candidates before (Richard Nixon, for example), will likelier prefer to protect the process even if she has reason to disbelieve the result. If Hillary does this and somehow prevails, the institution itself will have been destroyed. People on the losing end will have thought their victory stolen, and radicalize further. Congress will basically tear itself apart trying to go after President-elect Clinton, maybe impeach her because they really don't give a damn.
I'm personally not a fan of saving the 'institution' of a wrecked government that's constitutionally unfit for purpose (which I think this republic is now). If this evidence of suggestion of bad practice or hacking or systems failure is sufficient for Clinton to call for a recount, go for it. If we can't handle the fact that the country's electoral system is basically breaking down, then we kind of deserve the mess, frankly. But I really don't think Hillary Clinton will be persuaded here. America doesn't go for trauma like that (see also: Richard Nixon getting pardoned).
Hillary Clinton is an institution woman. She, like other candidates before (Richard Nixon, for example), will likelier prefer to protect the process even if she has reason to disbelieve the result. If Hillary does this and somehow prevails, the institution itself will have been destroyed. People on the losing end will have thought their victory stolen, and radicalize further. Congress will basically tear itself apart trying to go after President-elect Clinton, maybe impeach her because they really don't give a damn.
I'm personally not a fan of saving the 'institution' of a wrecked government that's constitutionally unfit for purpose (which I think this republic is now). If this evidence of suggestion of bad practice or hacking or systems failure is sufficient for Clinton to call for a recount, go for it. If we can't handle the fact that the country's electoral system is basically breaking down, then we kind of deserve the mess, frankly. But I really don't think Hillary Clinton will be persuaded here. America doesn't go for trauma like that (see also: Richard Nixon getting pardoned).
i've been wary on speaking out about it in fear of coming off as a sore loser or black helicopter guy
but something about election night seemed... off. like, really really off. i'm not in truther territory yet, i'm willing to "take the L", but i can't come to terms with the fact outside sources weren't directly at play
but something about election night seemed... off. like, really really off. i'm not in truther territory yet, i'm willing to "take the L", but i can't come to terms with the fact outside sources weren't directly at play
Theonik
Member
And when do you trigger a crosscheck? And why is speed valuable in an election?
Only people who benefit from it is media that likes to treat elections like it's bloody sport.
Well you can live with your head in the sand if you want but if there was some sort of fraud or coercion then I as an American would want to know and you should never let fear get in the way of it if there was some truth to it. If it came out later down the line, that would even be worse. A scandal that large goes beyond any SCOTUS nominees or congressional gridlock.
Of course this is all just hypothetical, it didn't happen.
DarkestHour
Banned
The media is Grasping at straws.
BronsonLee
Member
One of these might be difficult to get
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You don't even need to do a total audit, just random spot checks.
I disagree considering everything that happened this election.
Androidsleeps
Member
R I G G E D
Bruce Springsteen
Member
If there was credibility to this it would be front page on the New York Times right now
At this point though the doubts being raised are already out there. Honestly Trump would be better served to allow and even request an audit. If he won fairly, it will just further erase any doubt of it.
Just like Hillary should have requested audits for the states Bernie people were disputing. It almost certainly wouldn't have changed the results. But would have removed doubt from Bernie supporters minds. And would have helped people trust her more.
Just like Hillary should have requested audits for the states Bernie people were disputing. It almost certainly wouldn't have changed the results. But would have removed doubt from Bernie supporters minds. And would have helped people trust her more.
NyMartin90
Member
Do you really want a Civil War? People in the Midwest wouldn't stand for this.
BronsonLee
Member
FINALLY I CAN BE BLACK PANTHER
Rescinding a concession 2 weeks after the election would be worse than Gore in 2000.
PantherLotus
Professional Schmuck
https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/801210272249708548
the driving force behind this story is reportedly kind of a big deal according to this cyber security reporter for politico?
i wouldn't dismiss this. don't get your hopes up -- EVEN IF IT'S TRUE -- but don't dismiss this.
the driving force behind this story is reportedly kind of a big deal according to this cyber security reporter for politico?
i wouldn't dismiss this. don't get your hopes up -- EVEN IF IT'S TRUE -- but don't dismiss this.
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