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[Suikoguy]

Do you really want a Civil War? People in the Midwest wouldn't stand for this.

So, if evidence was actually found, we just let it go to prevent butt hurt Midwest fucktards from committing violence?

 

[Stumpokapow]

I sounds much more likely that Podesta is going through the list of people he has to listen to, because that's what a losing campaign needs to do in order to not get hung from the rafters, and like any other big block of cheese day, this included a bunch of fringe groups that they politely nodded to, and for some reason a journalist is credulously reporting this.

 

[Ishan]

Unfortunately, if you move away from Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, it's all older, once-working class individuals and their not-working-class-but-respect-the-working-class kids who totally bought into Trump's bullshit. There should totally be a recount just in case (Anything to stop the rise of Neo-Nazis, the temporary death of civil rights, and an environmental crisis going unabated), but I painfully admit Trump won southwest PA outside of Allegheny County (AKA Pittsburgh & its suburbs) at the least.

Think trump won everything apart from Philly Pitt areas and centre county (where penn state is so it's been reliably dem due to college influence etc)

 

[Intheflorsh]

Nate Cohn:

Effect of paper ballots in Wisconsin goes from 7 pts, like NY article, to 0 if you control for race education, density (true w&w/o weights,)

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/801226924156719104

 

[BronsonLee]

Rescinding a concession 2 weeks after the election would be worse than Gore in 2000.

And that shit was cloooooooose

 

[PantherLotus]

If there was credibility to this it would be front page on the New York Times right now

it was posted like 50 minutes ago, man.

 

[Suikoguy]

I sounds much more likely that Podesta is going through the list of people he has to listen to, because that's what a losing campaign needs to do in order to not get hung from the rafters, and like any other big block of cheese day, this included a bunch of fringe groups that they politely nodded to, and for some reason a journalist is credulously reporting this.

Wait, the people suggesting a recount are fringe people?

 

[Calamari41]

i've been wary on speaking out about it in fear of coming off as a sore loser or black helicopter guy

but something about election night seemed... off. like, really really off. i'm not in truther territory yet, i'm willing to "take the L", but i can't come to terms with the fact outside sources weren't directly at play

If outside forces were cheating to give Trump the win, it would have drawn a lot less attention to flip States like Colorado and New Hampshire, which had given Trump some good polling numbers, as opposed to flipping the entire rust belt which blew a lot of people away.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

don't do anything without definitive proof.

 

[AuthenticM]

She should just fucking do it. She's got nothing to lose; her political career is already over.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Wait, the people suggesting a recount are fringe people?

Err, yes, basically by definition?

 

[Suikoguy]

Err, yes, basically by definition?

I guess it depends on your definition of fringe.

 

[Timeaisis]

She already conceded and they have literally no proof or reason to believe that it happened.

I mean, go for it if you want, I guess. But it's misplaced labor.

 

[Shadybiz]

I certainly won't get my hopes up...will wait and see if there is actually overwhelming proof.

 

[NyMartin90]

So, if evidence was actually found, we just let it go to prevent butt hurt Midwest fucktards from committing violence?

This will do nothing but damage the reputation of the American System and our faith in it. Guess we should just throw everything away for the sake that we will get a president in that wouldn't be able to do anything with a Republican Congress.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Do you really want a Civil War? People in the Midwest wouldn't stand for this.

No, I don't think people who want Hillary to gear up for another round want a civil war. But they've been given plenty of reasons to think that: President Donald Trump is dangerous, that the popular vote shouldn't be denigrated like this, and that voter suppression and systemic incompetence has destroyed the process we should all have faith in.

Though I really don't think Clinton will go for this, why is it surprising that people want the winner to actually win? Why should any voter want to persist with an voting system that distorts their will so that the loser wins, if Trump actually was somehow behind in EVs?

 

[KingBroly]

Nate Cohn:


https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/801226924156719104

That's what Silver said too. So...it's nothing?

And that shit was cloooooooose

What I mean is that shit got dragged out over a month from election night. This is 2 weeks post election where the transition period has already begun and take shape. Think about how disastrous flipping that switch would be.

 

[Amikami]

don't do anything without definitive proof.

There's not going to be proof unless something is done is the problem. Whatever the actions, if any, it should be rather subdued though.

 

[Plinko]

This is ridiculous. Let it go.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Oh also, a article passage that's really important is near the end:

The Clinton camp is running out of time to challenge the election. According to one of the activists, the deadline in Wisconsin to file for a recount is Friday; in Pennsylvania, it’s Monday; and Michigan is next Wednesday. Whether Clinton will call for a recount remains unclear. The academics so far have only a circumstantial case that would require not just a recount but a forensic audit of voting machines. Also complicating matters, a senior Clinton adviser said, is that the White House, focused on a smooth transfer of power, does not want Clinton to challenge the election result.

That doesn't seem to be a lot of time for Hillary to decide. And she wasn't even in this conference call. What will her advisors think, first of all? I think there are a lot of internal obstacles to the campaign trying this.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

FINALLY I CAN BE BLACK PANTHER

Slayven already called dibs. You're gonna have to settle for D-Man.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

This will do nothing but damage the reputation of the American System and our faith in it. Guess we should just throw everything away for the sake that we will get a president in that wouldn't be able to do anything with a Republican Congress.

You guys elected Donald Trump as the next American Idol.

 

[BronsonLee]

Slayven already called dibs. You're gonna have to settle for D-Man.

Who the hell is D-Man?!

 

[Aaron Strife]

https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/801210272249708548



the driving force behind this story is reportedly kind of a big deal according to this cyber security reporter for politico?

i wouldn't dismiss this. don't get your hopes up -- EVEN IF IT'S TRUE -- but don't dismiss this.

Yeah... we'll see what happens. I doubt anything comes of this.

Would be nice if the three Midwest states magically flipped along with their Senate races (WI and PA).

It'd be so much easier to wake up in the world where we have President-elect Clinton and a tied Senate. Majority if the gods felt like giving us Jason Kander too (Democrat in Missouri, lost by 3 when Clinton lost the state by 19).

Michigan might flip on its own, actually.

 

[Ac30]

Let it go, guys. Doing this would cripple the faith of the voting public in federal institutions for a generation.

 

[NawidA]

Let it go, guys. Doing this would cripple the faith of the voting public in federal institutions for a generation.

But if this true, then why should people have faith in it?

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Not in every system and not in the suggested system here.

And even in such a system, if you are asking people to print votes to put in ballot boxes, you are merely replacing the pencil. The paper backup is only useful if you use it anyway so in most cases you are at the mercy of the software which is effectively a blackbox.
A manual recount solves this then but you basically admitted that it is necessary to have any confidence to the system. There is no way of noticing discrepancies unless you do a manual count anyway so you lose the speed advantage too.

Well, I'm not saying that I want to move to machine voting, I'm just saying that it would be difficult to cheat, with so many actors and even a paper trail involved.

 

[AniHawk]

Let it go, guys. Doing this would cripple the faith of the voting public in federal institutions for a generation.

man, i think the huge discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral vote would do that instead.

 

[btrboyev]

Come on OP. Nowhere in the article does it state she is mulling recounts.

It's not going to happen and even if it did, the end result will be the same.

 

[slit]

This will do nothing but damage the reputation of the American System and our faith in it. Guess we should just throw everything away for the sake that we will get a president in that wouldn't be able to do anything with a Republican Congress.

So if actual evidence was found, the bigger concern is the reputation of the system? Even though that system would have failed us. Great reasoning.

 

[PBY]

This seems silly.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Who the hell is D-Man?!

 

[Jarmel]

Let it go, guys. Doing this would cripple the faith of the voting public in federal institutions for a generation.

Half the country already thinks it's rigged. Who gives a fuck at this point?

 

[pswii60]

Personally, I'd be fine with a full on re-vote. Maybe the horrors of a Trump presidency have set in on these people.

If you don't like the results of a democratic election, keep calling more elections until you get the desired result?

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Not sure if I believe this story....Sounds very fishy/exploitative.

 

[Ac30]

But if this true, then why should people have faith in it?

man, i think the huge discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral vote would do that instead.

Yes, the Electoral College is a travesty, but doing this would throw your whole republic in disarray. More than it already is :/

EDIT: Believe me I want this to be true so badly but I can't see a good outcome. I'm just so disillusioned with the American voting process that I can't see this ever happening.

 

[Theonik]

Well, I'm not saying that I want to move to machine voting, I'm just saying that it would be difficult to cheat, with so many actors and even a paper trail involved.

Nah, cheating is trivial. The paper votes are extremely unlikely to be counted.
In fact what makes this so lucrative over rigging paper votes is that attacks scale really well and can be perpetrated easily by lone actors or foreign governments.

 

[Ecotic]

It's probably nothing, but I have had a gnawing suspicion that something is off. If she wins the popular vote by 2.5 million votes and can't get the electoral college to fall in her favor then something feels wrong. I mean she won by 5 times what Gore did nationally and lost lopsidedly in the electoral college.

My 'gnawing suspicion' though is probably just that the electoral college is bullshit and it's insane that someone could win upwards of 2% nationally and lose.

 

[NyMartin90]

man, i think the huge discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral vote would do that instead.

But that just goes to show how many people actually understand how the system works. Everyone went into this election knowing the rules of the game.
Electoral Votes = Win
Popular Vote= sense of people taking part in the process thanks to the founding fathers

 

[Crayon]

So if actual evidence was found, the bigger concern is the reputation of the system? Even though that system would have failed us. Great reasoning.

This.

 

[Amikami]

Let it go, guys. Doing this would cripple the faith of the voting public in federal institutions for a generation.

If it's true, I have no faith in the institution. You kidding me. It would make me more confident actually, that at least people care enough to straighten shit out.

 

[Lo-Volt]

But if this true, then why should people have faith in it?

Frankly, we shouldn't. But if this somehow opens up a huge breach of trust, and everyone basically sees our institutions as totally illegitimate, what happens next? That's what the 'no' side of this argument will justifiably ask.

 

[Eidan]

I sounds much more likely that Podesta is going through the list of people he has to listen to, because that's what a losing campaign needs to do in order to not get hung from the rafters, and like any other big block of cheese day, this included a bunch of fringe groups that they politely nodded to, and for some reason a journalist is credulously reporting this.

Story of the Clinton campaign.

 

[ScribbleD]

I'm all for investigating, but some of you need to lower your expectations of what an investigation with likely turn up. Nate Silver's going state by state on Twitter as per the claims and he seems less than confident about any potential rigging.

 

[NyMartin90]

So if actual evidence was found, the bigger concern is the reputation of the system? Even though that system would have failed us. Great reasoning.

if actual evidence was found thats a different story but until there is credible clear evidence we can't just throw around theories like this.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

This...this is a distraction?

._.;

 

[gogosox82]

They are grasping at straws here. That still doesn't get her to 270. People need to accept that she lost. They even admit that there's no evidence of manipulation or fraud.

 

[Calamari41]

It's probably nothing, but I have had a gnawing suspicion that something is off. If she wins the popular vote by 2.5 million votes and can't get the electoral college to fall in her favor then something feels wrong. I mean she won by 5 times what Gore did nationally and lost lopsidedly in the electoral college.

My 'gnawing suspicion' though is probably just that the electoral college is bullshit and it's insane that someone could win upwards of 2% nationally and lose.

It's not that crazy. She underperformed Obama everywhere, but ran up the score big time in California. Trump won the popular vote by a lot in the other 49 States last time I checked.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Let's say they investigate and find fraud. Somehow electors choose Hillary Clinton as President. Here's what would happen:

• Republicans would never accept that.
  
• Donald Trump refusing to concede, set's up a shadow government in Trump Tower. (edit: as in shadow cabinet)
  
• Political chaos for the forseeable future.
  
• Total and complete obstruction in the House & Senate.
  
• Possible armed uprising among Trump's deplorables.

That's just the beginning. Think you'd get supreme court nominations at least? Naw, no nominations of anything for 4 years. No confirmation of cabinet. No nothing. Government shutdown just as a start.

Donald Trump could be very bad, but I think the above is actually worse.

Sounds far better than the potential things that could happen under a Trump presidency.

Regardless, if cheating took place, then we cannot knowingly let it pass. We forfeit our democracy and our freedom at that point and surrender to the inevitable dictatorship.

If outside forces were cheating to give Trump the win, it would have drawn a lot less attention to flip States like Colorado and New Hampshire, which had given Trump some good polling numbers, as opposed to flipping the entire rust belt which blew a lot of people away.

I mean, this is all hypothetical, but flipping the whole rust belt creates a very compelling narrative to explain how and why Trump won.

 

[slit]

if actual evidence was found thats a different story but until there is credible clear evidence we can't just throw around theories like this.

We are discussing a hypothetical. We know there is no actual evidence but it seems to me like some are more worried about appearances than reality.