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[whyamihere]

I believe Michigan certified their results today, so with that, even if you flipped WI and PA, Trump would still be at 276

Michigan has not certified its results.

Again, I don't think much will change, but the margin actually shrunk today in Michigan. She wouldn't need to do an audit to potentially win Michigan outright. Either way, if it gets under 2,000 votes, there will be an automatic recount.

 

[KingBroly]

If Hillary Clinton takes back her concession and calls for a recount two weeks after the election, I guarantee you that the population will notice.

Yup

Now also imagine the GIGANTIC SHITSTORM that would happen if the results were flipped.


EDIT:

Michigan has not certified its results.

Again, I don't think much will change, but the margin actually shrunk today in Michigan. She wouldn't need to do an audit to potentially win Michigan outright. Either way, if it gets under 2,000 votes, there will be an automatic recount.

My understanding was they certified the results today.

 

[Air]

One thing I think most people took away from this election, for those who reflected on the issues, is that Middle America and the divide between Rural and Urban America have two different perspectives. Most people however with as terrible of an election as this was refused to see each other's ideas.

Zakaria actually goes into this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am9Gn8xK4EM

Oh I agree and I've seen that video. But I mean there were Republicans against GWB too. I definitely get there's a divide between rural and urban America, but I guess my hope is that the electoral college voters would be above that. It's more fascinating to me as a subject of study than of actual bewilderment.

 

[Superkamikaze]

Paper hacks, scandalous.

 

[Funkyhamster]

Alex Halderman is well-known in the computer security community, I believe. Not saying that he's right about this, but this isn't just some random Hillary diehard.

 

[wesleyshark]

Do it.

 

[NyMartin90]

Oh I agree and I've seen that video. But I mean there were Republicans against GWB too. I definitely get there's a divide between rural and urban America, but I guess my hope is that the electoral college voters would be above that. It's more fascinating to me as a subject of study than of actual bewilderment.

I definitely agree on this too

 

[robochimp]

I've voted in the most populous county in WI for 18 years and I have never seen an electronic voting machine. I'm not sure where they're being used as Milwaukee is paper ballot and scanning machine.

 

[PersonAndStuff]

Man, I don't know. I don't want Trump but this could go really really bad.

 

[brian577]

to all the people saying to let it go: sorry if it is hard for us to accept Trump as our fucking president. Of course we will latch on to any hope of that not happening for fuck sakes

Having hope is one thing but this is just getting sad. it's time to accept reality and move on.

 

[carlsojo]

If it happens, it isn't going to be Clinton challening the results, it's going to be multiple people arrested simultaneously

 

[Skellig Gra]

Lol good luck with that Hilldawg

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

What cannot be checked, and is the whole vector for such an attack is the software running on the machine. Evading such detection is possible and more importantly, scales up in such a way that the number of people involved in deploying the machines doesn't matter. There is hundreds of scenarios, from hacking the software vendor to various other ways of manipulation. The key here is that once you figure out a way to exploit the system scaling it up is trivial that is the actual risk here.

The question has nothing to do with whether this election is rigged, but in how electronic voting systems are fundamentally unreliable.

Well, if you were arguing the merits of electronic vs. paper voting all along, then I agree with you: paper is superior for integrity reasons. But if you're talking about this particular instance, there is no clear discrepancy between counties that used paper ballots and ones that used electronic voting.

Can she un-concede? I mean she called him and then announced she lost. Isnt that the end of it despite the shitty outcome? Trump is in the middle of a presidential transition, if there was even a chance of this happening it would have already happened.

Conceding isn't a formal process, afaik. You don't have to get your opponent to concede to win an election.

 

[aerts1js]

Just let it go, it's starting to get sad at this point.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

to all the people saying to let it go: sorry if it is hard for us to accept Trump as our fucking president. Of course we will latch on to any hope of that not happening for fuck sakes

It's counter productive because while you're spending your mental or god forbid, physical energy on something as outlandish as this you could be donating and volunteering for Planned Parenthoold, SPLC, ACLU, etc.

 

[phanphare]

if legit it should be pursued

if not stay the fuck away. this will not end well. even if it's legit it won't end well.

 

[NYR]

The burden of proof on this would be enormous. Would need someone holding the bloody knife taking a selfie video committing the crime and also verbally admitting to it as well.

Ain't happening.

 

[Amikami]

If they were to investigate, it would probably be in the best interest to maintain the original outcome regardless of the recount outcome. Doing otherwise would make Hillary look like a sore loser. I'm personally more interested in any abuse being outed more than anything.

Besides, if there was fraud, I hope it would kind of take care of itself, but the most that would happen is Trump is kicked out for Pence which isn't much better. It's just really important that cheating wasn't involved, because then I'd lose any faith I had in the nation to be any thing resembling a demacracy. Ideally, I honestly hope fraud or hacking isn't a factor period, and it can be resolved without investigation. It kinda looks like it with this Nate guy.

 

[EmpressInYellow]

The right will play it for years to come as the Dems undermining democracy. This is exactly the kind of shit Breitbart salivates over.

The right and Breitbart are going to do that regardless.

Can she un-concede? I mean she called him and then announced she lost. Isnt that the end of it despite the shitty outcome? Trump is in the middle of a presidential transition, if there was even a chance of this happening it would have already happened.

It's not settled until Congress certifies the vote of the electors.

I mean, look, the odds of this changing anything are basically nonexistent. But I object to the idea that Democrats should be magnanimous, roll over, and just "take the L" when, were the situations reversed, we'd never hear the end of the angry outcry.

 

[Suikoguy]

If they were to investigate, it would probably be in the best interest to maintain the original outcome regardless of the recount outcome. Doing otherwise would make Hillary look like a sore loser. I'm personally more interested in any abuse being outed more than anything.

Besides, if there was fraud, I hope it would kind of take care of itself, but the most that would happen is Trump is kicked out for Pence which isn't much better. It's just really important that cheating wasn't involved, because then I'd lose any faith I had in the nation to be any thing resembling a demacracy. Ideally, I honestly hope fraud or hacking isn't a factor period, and it can be resolved without investigation. It kinda looks like it with this Nate guy.

I'm getting really concerned for our democracy with the sheer number of posts thinking we should let rigged results stand.

 

[Nappuccino]

I'd be happy voting again . . . fuck, I'd chisel my vote into granite by hand if it meant getting a shot at seeing the results change.

I cannot imagine a world where clear vote tampering has been done though . . . that cannot bode well for this country. Granted, I'd feel a little better about voters a large, assuming the tampering was in Trump's favor.

 

[blackw0lf]

Is there some conceivable way there could be a recount without the Clinton campaign asking for it?

 

[CriterionDog]

This is the Berenstain/Trump timeline. Not even she can change that.

I see what you did there LOL

 

[Amikami]

I'm getting really concerned for our democracy with the sheer number of posts thinking we should let rigged results stand.

Of course I don't think a rigged election should stand. I just don't think a recount would be admitted unless there was some safety net for the R party. I have no idea how recounts work though.

Also, I'm kinda thinking, again, that a recount in favor of Hilary would resolve itself with civil unrest. I don't know. Like I said, I just rather there be no rigging at all. But I'd be the first one out there in the case that the result showed a Hilary win. This is the "Take care of itself" part. The people.

I'd be happy voting again . . . fuck, I'd chisel my vote into granite by hand if it meant getting a shot at seeing the results change.

I cannot imagine a world where clear vote tampering has been done though . . . that cannot bode well for this country. Granted, I'd feel a little better about voters a large, assuming the tampering was in Trump's favor.

Have revotes ever been done. A revote would absolutely require evidence of tampering. I would like to imagine a world where we all revoted and people, after getting a taste of a possible Trump presidency showed up in groves, but knowing in how fucking weird this cycle has been, Trump would probably somehow win again.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

I say recount, what have you got to lose.

 

[DietRob]

Called it?

 

[ChaosXVI]

I'm not even going to let myself get excited about this. Because even in the extremely unlikely scenario where this is actually a thing, it would be near impossible to prove, and if they tried to remove Trump as President-Elect, it would lead to utter chaos.

 

[Lothar]

Per Nate Silver:

https://twitter.com/natesilver538

But what if an alien from outer space used magic on the paper? How do they know? We need a revote where the paper, the voting booth, and the voters are covered in tinfoil.

 

[The Flop]

Give it up... at this point. Seriously.

 

[whyamihere]

Didn't Stanford University put out the study a little while back that showed Clinton outperformed against Sanders by a significant amount (10% I believe) in states where votes had no paper trail vs states that did?

If she opens this can of worms based on similar evidence, I would question whether her victory over Sanders was legitimate after all.

So what you're saying is that Hillary rigged the primary but was such a shitty closer she couldn't rig the general.

smh Hillary

 

[Tarkus]

Called it?

How can you hack paper ballots in MI and much of WI?

 

[FStop7]

Extraordinary accusations require extraordinary evidence.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

No wonder nothing changes when everyone is so weaked willed they just give up instantly.

 

[whyamihere]

How can you hack paper ballots in MI and much of WI?

Um have you ever heard of erasers?!

 

[xxracerxx]

How can you hack paper ballots in MI and much of WI?

Hack the machines that count the ballots!!!!! Revolution!

 

[Hyperactivity]

They best only do this if they have good evidence

 

[The Lamonster]

Call out fraud no matter the cost. I'd rather the world burn on my own terms.

 

[triplestation]

this wont end well if its really a thing, which i dont really think it is as much as i want it to be

 

[soco]

Is there some conceivable way there could be a recount without the Clinton campaign asking for it?

Yes, but probably not one that's official, and likely not before the electoral college votes.

I believe there was one in Florida after the 2000 election done by the media there, that found that Gore would have won had he ordered a recount of the whole state and not just the liberal leaning counties he initially requested.

 

[hohoXD123]

I'd have said let it go but with Trump indicating he wouldn't accept the result if he didn't win pre-results, I say let Clinton rain down hellfire.

 

[Hellwarden]

I don't think Hillary is going to ask for a recount. Her political career in a large sense is over, but that doesn't mean she's not gonna try to salvage it.

 

[soco]

How can you hack paper ballots in MI and much of WI?

This has been pointed out in the thread multiple times. There's machines involved in counting, storing, transfering the counts to centralized locations, etc. While incredibly unlikely, it's easily possible to intervene at any point along that chain. People are terrible at security.

 

[NimbusD]

So what if they find actual instances of large scale hacking, but it still doesn't win her the election? Is that a bad thing to investigate it if there's legitimate claims?

If they have some actual evidence to pursue, I think it's worth it no matter the outcome. But if it's grasping at straws it's pretty damn horrible and a disservice to both Clinton and the Dems to try to push for this.

 

[Amikami]

I don't think Hillary is going to ask for a recount. Her political career in a large sense is over, but that doesn't mean she's not gonna try to salvage it.

I kinda feel this too. Honestly, I'm starting to lean in the direction that there's nothing to recount.

 

[KingBroly]

I'd have said let it go but with Trump indicating he wouldn't accept the result if he didn't win pre-results, I say let Clinton rain down hellfire.

Trump would've conceded. He was simply being an entertainer when he made that line, because he is a showman after all.

 

[Movement]

I wish this hadn't been leaked until and if solid evidence comes in. Even then, if true, it would be chaos, I don't think anyone could write a story as crazy as election 2016, USA.

 

[Tarkus]

This has been pointed out in the thread multiple times. There's machines involved in counting, storing, transfering the counts to centralized locations, etc. While incredibly unlikely, it's easily possible to intervene at any point along that chain. People are terrible at security.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I always thought when he said it's rigged he meant he was rigging it.

 

[Movement]

I always thought when he said it's rigged he meant he was rigging it.

Well, he is a pretty classic example of projection.

 

[_woLf]

DO IT.

FUCK TRUMP