So you about your full of shit right? Because the hypothetical of Trump- or any GOP candidates being hurt by people not turning out doesn't exist in reality.
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Hillary Clinton Selects Tim Kaine As VP
- Thread starter giga
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It's like a bag of 99 good gum balls and one poison gum ball.
If there's even a 1% chance of him becoming president we must treat it as an absolute certainty.
CountAntonius
Member
Your hypothetical only holds if you have no preference between the two candidates. That is, if you feel the outcome of the election has no bearing on future governance because the candidates wouldn't act any differently on the issues you care about.
Given the professed future policies of each candidate this would be a bizarre way of thinking unless you have a very narrow band of issues that you care about, but whatever. The more general point is that in your hypothetical, if you have a preference for one candidate but choose not to vote for some other reason, you have in fact altered the election.
excelsiorlef
Member
Why did you generalize when I'm talking to people literally directly in this thread.
foodtaster
Banned
what about conservatives who are not voting? is hilary not being helped?
Oh I was just pointing out that in general, not voting doesn't change the outcome.
They hate the current TPP, but can't wait to show us TPP v2.0!
I live in Georgia. I voted for Obama for all the good it did.
Hasphat'sAnts
Member
But it DOES say about what you value. To you, an America with Trump vs. Hillary as its commander in chief is equitable.
Feel free to not vote. Or vote for Stein/Johnson. It's your right, and we'll all fight for you to have that right. But just do us a favor and don't claim that you're concerned with protecting the disadvantaged and righting injustices from here on out.
Actions speak louder than words.
googleplex
Member
Because deep down they actually don't give a shit about Progressive legislation.
Correct, if someone usually votes Republican but stays home because #AnyoneButtRump, they are helping Hillary.
Further- conservative leaning voters are significantly better at actually going out to vote.
whyamihere
Banned
I mean, if TPP doesn't pass in the lame duck, there's probably a close-to-zero chance that Hillary pushes for any free trade agreements during her tenure as president.
First they announced policies against the LGBT community, and that did not make me change my vote
Because I was not a member of the LGBT community
Then they announced policies against a woman's right to choose, and that did not make me change my vote
Because I was not a woman.
Then they announced policies against immigrants, and that did not make me change my vote
Because I was not an immigrant.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to vote to help me.
Because I was not a member of the LGBT community
Then they announced policies against a woman's right to choose, and that did not make me change my vote
Because I was not a woman.
Then they announced policies against immigrants, and that did not make me change my vote
Because I was not an immigrant.
Then they came for meand there was no one left to vote to help me.
foodtaster
Banned
you're being silly. i'm just stating a fact. not voting doesn't change the outcome. some of your ppl are way too emotional. I bet most of you don't even vote in non presidential elections, lol. anyway, I'm voting hilary, but let's not spread straight up lies >_>
I think this is bad though.
I'm not guilt tripping you, for what it's worth. I just think a 'requirement' of 'inspiration' is pretty stupid. Complain that the election is a reality show, then complain that the candidates aren't flashy. Complain about the candidates lying about their promises, gravitate towards false promises that sound 'good' and 'inspiration'. Complain that the government doesn't represent you, but proceed to not vote.
In politics there is rarely a clear cut division between 'good' and 'bad', so thinking of the presentations like so is fairly childish and naive.
Ultimately "I am morally better than the choices" sounds like a lazy excuse and a contradiction. Because to me, a part of living a moral life, especially in this election, is just performing the basic civil duty of voting.
More importantly, if you can't stomach a politician without a 'wholesome good', then your value to voting downticket is low. Yet downticket matters so much, but the candidates are not entirely better than Hillary, particularly if you live in a conservative area. If that's the case, then how would you ever reconcile your "good" and "bad" to the downticket? In your case, "voting morally or not at all" is why the Republicans have such a stronghold in Congress to begin with.
I'm pretty tired of the likes of voters like you who think they're so righteous but at the same time are the reason why we cannot pass progressive legislation.
NYR
Member
He's not allowed to serve as VP.
Officerrob
Banned
I'll do whatever the fuck I can to keep a facist bigot out of office.
This standard should be applied consistently. It's illogical to say people in swing states should...not vote their consciences while people who do not should vote their consciences. The reality is that you should vote for policies that are attractive to you regardless of where you live.
Conservatives always vote, even when turnout is low. That's part of the reason Congress is so fucked up right now.
excelsiorlef
Member
I feel like the inability for a decent number of people to not just go out and at least vote against Trump highlights beautifully why MLK thought it wasn't the racist who were the real issue but the people supposedly on your side who just sit on their hands and do nothing.
Count Dookkake
Member
yes, because you know that's what I am complaining about, entertainment value.
Already Torn
Banned
Hey pal, I'm really excited about the class I just took.
foodtaster
Banned
sure, that might be true. but that's not what I'm referring to the general case. I think everyone should vote democrat, but to say not voting helps one candidate or another is just a straight-up lie.
Spiritreaver
Member
Please vote. 
A lot of people would be amazed at how many state/local issues/elections are decided within a very narrow margin of voters. Not voting definitely has an effect on things.
A lot of people would be amazed at how many state/local issues/elections are decided within a very narrow margin of voters. Not voting definitely has an effect on things.So you think she should have pandered with a minority pick instead of selecting the best person to do the job of Vice President, when Clinton herself is one of the strongest minority outreach politicians in the history of the U.S.? Through well earned activism and public support at that.
Vire
Member
It was the perfect pick for this very reason.
He will help her win Virginia because it's his home state and it will also help her win Florida because he can appeal directly to the Latino community.
To be honest, in terms of votes on swing states she probably couldn't have picked better.
...This would be bad, why, exactly?
Are we against any and all trade now, even with improved terms that fix issues people may have?
While I'm at it, what issues do you have with the TPP?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Stark contrast to the Trump/ Pence disasters lol
StriKeVillain
Banned
Was hoping for a Hispanic pick. :/
Ah, well. Not like there's another option at the end here.
Ah, well. Not like there's another option at the end here.
Father_Brain
Banned
In other words, you weighed the candidates and made your decision accordingly, knowing it would have no effect on the outcome. Exactly.
Officerrob
Banned
LOL, that was fast
metalslimer
Member
That speech last night scared the shit out of me in a way I didn't think was possible in the US. I guess I don't understand why people feel that things like charisma and and charm negate that.
Well, who are we talking about? If an individual would vote Dem if they voted at all but chooses not to vote, they are helping the Republican candidate. If an individual would vote Republican if they voted at all but chooses not to vote, they are helping the Dem candidate.
If you mean in general, this is also not true, because Dems are disproportionately likely to not vote. If you were to increase turnout across the table, the Dems would benefit more.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
Except, name calling and doing shit like saying someone is a coward usually has the psychological effect of pushing people out your camp rather than into it. Seriously, a lot of people hardening stances around here. I bet you'd rather that person who says he's staying home do that rather than vote Trump because their own party decided to do nothing but scream at them.
LUFTRAUSER
Banned
I think having a ticket without a white guy on it would be too politically risky.
King Tubby
Member
...getting back to Kaine, I see a lot to like about him, but his (and Clinton's) measured support of TPP worries me. Even if they reject it as it is now I don't know that I have faith in her administration not to change a few details and give it another go shortly into her tenure.
Kaine being a white guy is a no-brainer. The minority vote is essentially sewn up, Hillary needs someone to reach out to disenfranchised white men and Kaine seems rather liked and relatable in that regard.
Kaine being a white guy is a no-brainer. The minority vote is essentially sewn up, Hillary needs someone to reach out to disenfranchised white men and Kaine seems rather liked and relatable in that regard.
well what's tim kaine's opinion on taco bowls?
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Republicans fall in line, Democrats fall in love. The majority of power position seats in this country are filled with Republicans because Democrats or would be's don't show up in non presidential elections. Republicans consistently show up to vote for people, often against their best interest even, because their party is easily manipulated by fear.
Lower turnout almost always benefits Republicans.
Already Torn
Banned
Kaine actually moonlights as an MMA fighter. His full moniker is Tim Kaine Velasquez.
You're exactly right.
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