Support NeoGAF

[cashman]

http://www.vox.com/2015/11/23/9780136/isis-tim-kaine-interview

not looking forward to the imminent invasion of Syria you guys

 

[rjinaz]

I'm not trying to convert people. People who are OK with letting an authoritarian sociopath get elected because their man isn't the nominee or who actively vote for him are a danger to our society and need to be called out as such. They are entrenched. They are racists and bigots and xenophobes.

You don't get banned for being truthful. Yes, the language is harsh because it needs to be. This election is unprecedented is modern American politics. Things are not going to be treated the same. I'm sorry that it rubs you the wrong way to hear that vitriolic furor, but please stop trying to project your insecurity over your choice to abstain into backseat moderation. It's just sad.

I simply agree with the celebrity who recently said she wished those who were against hate were as loud and forceful as those who are for it. I intend to fight this monster Trump tooth and nail, and all his supporters are fair game. Now you can either try to demonstrate why I am wrong to feel this way, or you can continue to limp around side sniping. Your choice. You are simply set to be judged by your choices is all. Don't make the choices if you can't take responsibility for them.

I mean it's true. I don't recall the last time a Trump supporter tried to argue that Trump and they are not racist for supporting him. They usually just dodge the issue and focus on other things because to deny it would open them up to that criticism.

 

[Y2Kev]

Think he just sowed up the 31-45 white vote for Hillary

CAN WE GET A VANILLA ICE ENDORSEMENT

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Tim Kaine, eh? Works for me!

 

[johnsmith]

Dude better be on Univision and Telemundo on a daily basis

 

[metalslimer]

Which is basically like saying 'good riddance, we didn't need you anyway' and then throwing a match onto the bridge they were halfway across. This isn't the only election ever. Is it really worth pushing someone to the right because they felt alienated over one candidate?

With a potential 3 supreme court nominations up, this elections will determine that branch of congress possible for the next 20 years. I don't think people realize how important that alone is disregarding that Trump is a semi-fascist

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Which is basically like saying 'good riddance, we didn't need you anyway' and then throwing a match onto the bridge they were halfway across. This isn't the only election ever. Is it really worth pushing someone to the right because they felt alienated over one candidate?

I'm curious. Who exactly is getting alienated by Hillary so much that they vote right? Doesn't sound like someone who was ever really left.

 

[itwasTuesday]

I get it, Sarah Mclachlan can be a bit much sometimes, but.... still.
Man...

ugh.

 

[King Tubby]

What are the deal breakers of the TPP for you?

Mainly its impact on Intellectual Property rights and inclusion of ISDS, and estimates that it will exacerbate income inequality.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I don't think there is exists a large enough amount of people as thin skinned as you describe that aren't already voting for Trump because of a white genocide conspiracy. The people you're describing who would actually change their vote because of things people yelled at them on the Internet aren't smart people.

You're practically tripping over yourself at this point to be offensive. You know you need so-called dumb people to win an election, right? Like their intelligence literally doesn't matter in a general election. Stupid or not, you hurt your chances by pushing them away. It's literally what a huge chunk of conservative voters are comprised of at this point.

 

[Mr. RPG]

I'm still trying to get someone to explain to me how handing over SCOTUS to the GOP for another 3 decades helps the progressive cause.

RPG? Steeped? Vire? foodtaster? I know y'all can read this.

Help me out here. Map it out for me.

I'm voting for Hillary as long as she doesn't do something incredibly stupid this election. What else do you want from me?

 

[hawk2025]

CAN WE GET A VANILLA ICE ENDORSEMENT

Vanilla Ice is strictly in the Melania Trump camp.

 

[Already Torn]

You're practically tripping over yourself at this point to be offensive. You know you need so-called dumb people to win an election, right? Like their intelligence literally doesn't matter in a general election. Stupid or not, you hurt your chances by pushing them away. It's literally what a huge chunk of conservative voters are comprised of at this point.

Like I told you, I think those dumb people already left long ago. There's not many people that dumb out there, even if they make up the republican base.

 

[FelixOrion]

Think he just sowed up the 31-45 white vote for Hillary

Can't touch this pick.

CAN WE GET A VANILLA ICE ENDORSEMENT

I'd be okay with this. I think Washington needs to stop, collaborate, and listen.

 

[Maxim726X]

This man will help win Florida!

Good, because I'm starting to get concerned Florida... Winning it makes it almost impossible for the GOP to win a national election.

 

[pigeon]

Which is basically like saying 'good riddance, we didn't need you anyway' and then throwing a match onto the bridge they were halfway across. This isn't the only election ever. Is it really worth pushing someone to the right because they felt alienated over one candidate?

This is such a bullshit narrative.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING FORCED "TO THE RIGHT" BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE RUDE TO YOU ON THE INTERNET.

If you vote on national political issues because of personal hurt feelings then you were already pretty fucking far to the right, frankly.

 

[HylianTom]

I'm voting for Hillary as long as she doesn't do something incredibly stupid this election. What else do you want from me?

Sorry - I'll omit you. I remember your stance now from past conversation.

I'm still trying to understand the logic from these folks.

 

[mclem]

Which is basically like saying 'good riddance, we didn't need you anyway' and then throwing a match onto the bridge they were halfway across. This isn't the only election ever. Is it really worth pushing someone to the right because they felt alienated over one candidate?

My post was largely demonstrating the process of how these things pan out, rather than necessarily praising the fact that they do. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing that it happens - but I'm saying I understand why it does. The thing that would make a difference to that chain of events would be a successful explanation of how you - the figurative you, again, not you personally - find little difference between the two potential outcomes without falling into the trap of appearing to have the aforementioned fundamental lack of compassion in the eyes of those trying to persuade.

HylianTom's framing of the discussion in Supreme Court terms is the sort of argument I'd like to hear from the "both outcomes are equal" crew.

 

[Doc Holliday]

sure, that might be true. but that's not what I'm referring to the general case. I think everyone should vote democrat, but to say not voting helps one candidate or another is just a straight-up lie.

Then why does the GOP try so damn hard to limit voting? Democrats tend be younger and quite frankly care more about making a point than actually voting.

Seniors have nothing better to do than go vote, so if a democrat doesn't vote that's one less vote to balance the republican turnout.

Why cant we get better bills passed right now? Because liberals didn't show up in 2012.

Btw remember how much fun we made of brexit voters who didn't realize what they had done? Some liberals looks just as foolish.

 

[NESpowerhouse]

Vanilla Ice is strictly in the Melania Trump camp.

I see what you did there.

 

[xxracerxx]

Sorry - I'll omit you. I remember your stance now from past conversation.

I'm still trying to understand the logic from these folks.

I don't get it either. They say they will vote for policy in local elections but will sit out for national policy. What in the fuck?

 

[GYODX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDRNVmKkNow

I wouldn't call that fluent. Serviceable, but not really fluent.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Liberals, DO NOT LET PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF GOOD.

Please drill that into your head, thank you.

 

[rtcn63]

Vanilla Ice is strictly in the Melania Trump camp.

Did you mean Milli Vanilli

 

[Vire]

I'm still trying to get someone to explain to me how handing over SCOTUS to the GOP for another 3 decades helps the progressive cause.

RPG? Steeped? Vire? foodtaster? I know y'all can read this.

Help me out here. Map it out for me.

How does reinforcing Citizens United, corporate personhood, etc get us closer to those ideals you claim to care about?

Steeped says "this isn't the only election ever." But if there's a hostile court in place when we DO win an election with a Bernie-like candidate, that Bernie 2.0's achievements are at risk of being judicially kneecapped.

How does this work? Give me the logic. We've been over the feelings element thoroughly.

Obviously a small part of me is still pulling for Hillary for the reasons stated above, but I'd definitely rather it be because you or someone else put them in office than myself. That way, I can sleep soundly at night when Hillary inevitably fucks up on a host of other issues I don't agree with and then I can blame y'all instead. In all honesty, part of it stems from the fact that I saw my brother vote for Bush in 2000 and to this day I can see how he beats himself up over it.

(In truth, like I said I have not fully decided what I will do yet when it comes to voting day). I'm completely open to changing my mind.

 

[King Tubby]

This is such a bullshit narrative.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING FORCED "TO THE RIGHT" BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE RUDE TO YOU ON THE INTERNET.

If you vote on national political issues because of personal hurt feelings then you were already pretty fucking far to the right, frankly.

You are severely underestimating the stupidity, ignorance, and/or pettiness of the electorate. Little things like this actually matter. They matter to getting people on the fence (and there are some people on the fence, and not all of them are bigots). They matter to motivating people to go out and support your candidate.

 

[valkillmore]

Don't know him. Gotta read up on him.

Was hoping she'd pick Booker. That would have been awesome

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

Think he just sowed up the 31-45 white vote for Hillary

Well, I do like MC Hammer and the Caps.

Kaine is going to need to show me something. Supporting the Hyde Amendment? His reproductive rights record is questionably to say the least.

I do think he helps solidify VA; just not convinced it needed solidifying.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

This is such a bullshit narrative.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING FORCED "TO THE RIGHT" BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE RUDE TO YOU ON THE INTERNET.

If you vote on national political issues because of personal hurt feelings then you were already pretty fucking far to the right, frankly.

I think you underestimate how petty people are.

 

[Kevitivity]

How does an anti-abortion politician get a good rating from planned parenthood?

 

[foodtaster]

Then why does the GOP try so damn hard to limit voting? Democrats tend be younger and quite frankly care more about making a point than actually voting.

Seniors have nothing better to do than go vote, so if a democrat doesn't vote that's one less vote to balance the republican turnout.

Why cant we get better bills passed right now? Because liberals didn't show up in 2012.

Btw remember how much fun we made of brexit voters who didn't realize what they had done? Some liberals looks just as foolish.

that's because liberals, like you mention, tend to like making a point more than actually doing anything. fortunately, their lack of voting doesn't hurt the country more than the opportunity cost. people should vote on local elections. it makes way more of a difference than the big elections, imo. fortunately I live in the east so its super easy for me to vote in pretty much every election. sucks for the surburbia ppl where they gotta drive.

there's a place to vote literally 20 minutes walking from where I am.

 

[NullPointer]

Did some cursory reading on him this morning and he seemed like a fine pick. Seems religious and anti-abortion but not to the extent where he's sought to push those beliefs as the law of the land.

Any skeletons in his closet we should know about?

 

[xxracerxx]

Obviously a small part of me is still pulling for Hillary for the reasons stated above, but I'd definitely rather it be because you or someone else put them in office than myself. That way, I can sleep soundly at night when Hillary inevitably fucks up on a host of other issues I don't agree with and then I can blame y'all instead. In all honesty, part of it stems from the fact that I saw my brother vote for Bush in 2000 and to this day I can see how he beats himself up over it.

(In truth, like I said I have not fully decided what I will do yet when it comes to voting day). I'm completely open to changing my mind.

The beauty of elections is you can change your mind in 4 years.

 

[rokkerkory]

Good, because I'm starting to get concerned Florida... Winning it makes it almost impossible for the GOP to win a national election.

He is very good with spanish speaking population. He's the first senator that has done an entire speech in spanish ( thats not a native speaker)

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

This is such a bullshit narrative.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS BEING FORCED "TO THE RIGHT" BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE RUDE TO YOU ON THE INTERNET.

If you vote on national political issues because of personal hurt feelings then you were already pretty fucking far to the right, frankly.

This isn't about just the internet, and yes, I'm sure this phenomenon absolutely exists. Nothing said by Gamergate or red pill ever hardened you towards a particular stance. This goes above that anyway. It's not just on neogaf that people are trying to shut the door on disaffected Democrats.

 

[luxarific]

VIRGINIA WHOO! MOTHER OF VICE PRESIDENTS! IN YO FACE, IOWA!

 

[xxracerxx]

that's because liberals, like you mention, tend to like making a point more than actually doing anything. fortunately, their lack of voting doesn't hurt the country more than the opportunity cost. people should vote on local elections. it makes way more of a difference than the big elections, imo. fortunately I live in the east so its super easy for me to vote in pretty much every election. sucks for the surburbia ppl where they gotta drive.

there's a place to vote literally 20 minutes walking from where I am.

And what about this election with SCOTUS on the line? That doesn't matter?

 

[Spiritreaver]

Yeah but I mean, hasn't Kerry been proven to be a horrible politician who has been wrong about a million things in the years following? Not saying that Bush was better, of course not. But Kerry was a pathetic pick for the Democrats, truly.

Perhaps, but there was a Senate seat and marriage question on the ballot as well. I live in Oklahoma so I was under the assumption that the issues I cared about wouldn't fly anyway so why bother?

That term not only was Bush reelected, but the Senate went heavily Republican if I recall right. Bush got two justices that term.

None of the outcomes were close here, not even the Senate seat, but I still should have voted.

 

[foodtaster]

And what about this election with SCOTUS on the line? That doesn't matter?

100% democratic turnout in all local elections nationwide would be worth a trump presidency imo.

obviously people should vote hilary if they believe in what she stands for, though.

 

[hawk2025]

Mainly its impact on Intellectual Property rights and inclusion of ISDS, and estimates that it will exacerbate income inequality.

Yeah, so its main negatives are some provisions on IP law and ISDS clauses.

I don't buy the CEPR estimates at all. What it does is estimate a correlation between trade intensity and inequality, and then apply those numbers as causality to the TPP itself. This makes very little sense statistically and is riddled with omitted variables bias.

So, my point: If the IP law provisions change and ISDS clauses are dropped, would you be ok with the TPP?

 

[jack_package_200]

How does an anti-abortion politician get a good rating from planned parenthood?

By looking past his own feelings to do the right thing and voting to allow women the right to choose.

 

[Officerrob]

How does an anti-abortion politician get a good rating from planned parenthood?

Because he's personally anti-abortion, but believes abortion is a personal issue that government shouldn't involved in

 

[DrForester]

 

[Intheflorsh]

Let's quit bickering and start asking the really important questions: Like how, after months of "Bernie" and "Hillary", are we expected to start referring to a candidate by their last name? Is the campaign going to go with the first name/last name mish mash of "Hillary/Kaine 2016" or is there a better solution?

 

[King Tubby]

How does an anti-abortion politician get a good rating from planned parenthood?

He personally opposes abortions, but aside from some restrictions, like partial-birth and parental consent, he hasn't supported any laws to outlaw abortions; he supports Roe v Wade. He seems rather conflicted, but I could see PP giving him a good rating based simply on how he's voted.

 

[statham]

CAN WE GET A VANILLA ICE ENDORSEMENT

I expect a Kid&Play endorsement sooner.

 

[Tranqueris]

As a minority who lives in Virginia I can say Kaine is a great pick. Though I don't think picking a minority would have been pandering; that's GOP/Trump logic.

At this point according to Trump logic speaking Spanish makes you the enemy. Looking back at his whole VP selection process it is not surprising that he didn't try to pander with a minority VP.

 

[whyamihere]

He personally opposes abortions, but aside from some restrictions, like partial-birth and parental consent, he hasn't supported any laws to outlaw abortions; he supports Roe v Wade. He seems rather conflicted, but I could see PP giving him a good rating based simply on how he's voted.

It's the same position as Biden, or even an Anthony Kennedy: personally opposed due to religion, but not going to codify that opposition into law.

 

[Steel]

Did some cursory reading on him this morning and he seemed like a fine pick. Seems religious and anti-abortion but not to the extent where he's sought to push those beliefs as the law of the land.

Any skeletons in his closet we should know about?

I think the fact that he doesn't have skeletons in his closet was the main reason he was picked.

 

[NullPointer]

100% democratic turnout in all local elections nationwide would be worth a trump presidency imo.

obviously people should vote hilary if they believe in what she stands for, though.

Everybody who wants things to get worse in order to spurn something better has forgotten the damage that the Bush presidency wrought. See-sawing between disastrous Republican administrations and the Democrats tasked with cleaning up their messes is no way to live.

I think the fact that he doesn't have skeletons in his closet was the main reason he was picked.

That works for me at this point. Guess we'll find out plenty over the weeks and months ahead.