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[ZeroX03]

So if said Bonus episodes didn't exist you wouldn't be complaining. That's what I meant with my comment in the other thread (not gonna respond there, no need to talk about this in two seperat threads I think).
It just feels weird to me to get all angry at a developer for making more content than what was promised. The lesson here for the developers isn't "Let's make this free for everybody" but "Let's never do anything beyond what we said we would do". It should be the first one, but you know it won't be. Plus SE doesn't seem like the type of company that is all like
"Sure, we'd love to pay you to make free content you don't actually have to make! We love giving away money".

Making more content than what was promised? They were always going to make this content. They'd known about it since Feb. This is the seventh episode they mentioned, and then stopped mentioning. They were just vague by what it was, whether it would be paid or whether it even existed at some point. You don't seem to realize that. This isn't extra content. It's planned content they never clearly explained.

If the seventh episode never arrived people would have been confused by that too. Terrible communication is to blame here. Nobody would be angry if they were upfront about this. We all would've just bought the upgrade pack.

 

[Sub Zero]

I don't get the problem with the Bonus episode. Like, at all.

I think most people are upset because IO were extremely vague about the bonus episode. If they were 100% straightforward about the release model and pricing from the start there wouldn't be such an outrage. Also withholding this content from individual episode buyers and having them wait an unspecified amount of time before the third bonus mission releases is bullshit.

The PR for this game has been a nightmare from the start and I really hope they reconsider some things in the future. The game is fantastic and it will be shame if their plans about future seasons are hampered because of nonsensical anti consumer policies.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Making more content than what was promised? They were always going to make this content. They'd known about it since Feb. This is the seventh episode they mentioned, and then stopped mentioning. They were just vague by what it was, whether it would be paid or whether it even existed at some point. You don't seem to realize that.

If the seventh episode never arrived people would have been confused by that too. Terrible communication is to blame here. Nobody would be angry if they were upfront about this. We all would've just bought the upgrade pack.

Wait, if this was known why did you expect to pay 65$ in total then? What lead you to the conclusion that the seventh episode was free? Did they say that? Cause otherwise I understand the anger even less.

I think most people are upset because IO were extremely vague about the bonus episode. If they were 100% straightforward about the release model and pricing from the start there wouldn't be such an outrage.

I get that, but it feels weird that people just assumed the seventh episode will be free for everybody? Unless they said something about that, haven't really followed the developement of the game , so maybe they did that

 

[ZeroX03]

Wait, if this was known why did you expect to pay 65$ in total then? What lead you to the conclusion that the seventh episode was free? Did they say that? Cause otherwise I understand the anger even less.

Because they stopped acknowledging it existing, and plenty of gaming websites only ever reported six locations. Gaming websites were confused. Gamers were confused. IO didn't respond to questions relating to the nature of the seventh episode and wouldn't confirm it still existed. That usually means canceled. They kept it as a 'surprise' for no reason. Videogamer.com referred to it as the mystery episode we knew nothing about. On top of that it was reported inconsistently that the game would be $10 per location with six locations. This isn't a new location.

Keep in mind this game was at one point six locations and 12 missions, so content being changed or canceled wasn't a new thing.

I've written this multiple times between the two threads, I'm not sure how you're not getting that this is entirely on IO/SE's atrocious communication.

 

[tryagainlater]

If they had been more communicative up front about what they were planning for the game, this wouldn't be an issue. Other episodic games haven't been this confusing.

 

[MMaRsu]

Exactly I probably would have bought the full experience if they said beforehand the difference in price was more than 10$. Oh well.

 

[madjoki]

They also announced seven episodes, and then in March they stopped mentioning it in any descriptions and their product descriptions specify six locations. So it looks like they pulled the seventh/it was a mistake, when in reality it was this bonus episode.

Also episodic players were already paying a little more. This is even more on top.

Thailand is August.

Steam still mentions 7 episodes.

I assume bonus episodes are "7th", which is why it's not being released. And real reason for bonus episodes to exists is to fill gaps, because episodes are taking longer than excepted.

But they are bad at communicating things, so everyone just assumes and guesses, which isn't good for them.

 

[ZeroX03]

Steam still mentions 7 episodes.

I assume bonus episodes are "7th", which is why it's not being released. And real reason for bonus episodes to exists is to fill gaps, because episodes are taking longer than excepted.

But they are bad at communicating things, so everyone just assumes and guesses, which isn't good for them.

It's pretty badly worded but at least clearer than some others. It doesn't even say seven, it says future six. Where they do refer to it, they say intro pack and six content releases (which is now actually seven as apparently there's more bonus content coming). What a mess.

Yes the bonus episode is the 7th, although the nature of it was never clear until last month.

I don't think they outright lied, but very bad communication led people in all sorts of directions. And when people are asking if purchasing episodic will be more expensive than intro pack + upgrade and they don't respond, that's even worse.

 

[justjim89]

It's not like we know for a fact this was the "planned" seventh episode. Y'all yourselves have said they're being intentionally vague about stuff, which does seem like terrible PR. But for all we know, the seventh episode was some dumb epilogue thing in the ICA facility that they scrapped. This sounds like two new episodes worth of content in fairly dramatically remixed levels. Pay a few more bucks for it or don't, but it's not like IO deceived you. To deceive you, they'd have had to give complete information, which they didn't. I just knew the release model for this thing was going to be weird, which is why I pre-ordered at full price before the episodic release was fully explained.

It is some bad PR, though. People have lost jobs over less significant things, I'm sure. Or, if this is executive meddling, I'm glad it's showing up this way and not ruining the game itself.

Also, none of you guys are "done" supporting this. Be real. You're like wrestling fans who complain about Roman Reigns being the next top guy, but stay subscribed to WWE Network.

 

[ZeroX03]

It's not like we know for a fact this was the "planned" seventh episode.

Yes, we do.

To deceive you, they'd have had to give complete information, which they didn't.

The line between deceit and confusing is pretty arbitrary, nobody is suing but they can certainly still be pissed.

 

[justjim89]

Yes, we do.

Fair enough. That's lame as fuck. Glad I bought the full game right out.

 

[fiction226]

Also, none of you guys are "done" supporting this. Be real. You're like wrestling fans who complain about Roman Reigns being the next top guy, but stay subscribed to WWE Network.

I am. I uninstalled it.

Price isn't the issue -- I came to terms with that -- it's not allowing episodic buyers of an episodic game to play the bonus episode the same time as everyone else.

Even if this decision was totally out of their hands for some reason it still comes down to the same root problem: they don't know what the fuck they are doing. They are making up things / reacting as the go along with this episodic structure and the evidence suggests they will continue to do so

They are already forcing me to wait to play content so I'll just wait until the dust clears and we (hopefully) get a finished complete bug free maybe even possibly playable offline game before playing it again. Rather pay $50 then for that vs $50 for an upgrade pack just so I can get access to content and God knows how many more surprises / delays / bugs / poor communication -- not to mention quality of the episodes. For all we know Sapienza was the peak and future episodes could be worse than Marrakesh.

Part of the reason I embraced the episodic format was the "prove it to me" nature of it. You put out a good product and I will keep supporting you. Product has been very good so far but communication / responsiveness have been absolutely terrible. So I have stopped supporting them until they prove to me they are worth supporting again.

 

[MMaRsu]

I've already uninstalled the game as well. Screw this shit.

 

[tanuki]

Also, none of you guys are "done" supporting this. Be real. You're like wrestling fans who complain about Roman Reigns being the next top guy, but stay subscribed to WWE Network.

I am done with this model. I will play the game, but quite happy to wait a year or two until the game is on sale at half price or less, and then will play it then. I have no desire to continue to support a game that has been so misleading about its release model.

This ridiculous thing is, if IO were more up front about what content was being released, I'm sure most of us would've bought the full experience or the upgrade pack from the beginning.

 

[Ludens]

Am I the only one thinking naming the episode 7 as "bonus" is wrong?

 

[Moff]

Am I the only one thinking naming the episode 7 as "bonus" is wrong?

absolutely, I wrote that in the other thread as well
bonus implies free in my book, it would be a bonus if people who bought the original missions would get them on top of that. escalations and elusives are bonus missions, these summer bonus episodes are not, they are paid dlc, period.

that's my issue with this, I don't think the episodic buyers were screwed here. on steam at least it always said it would be 7 episodes, bolded and right in the title of the section where you buy it. it was always clear you'd pay 75 bucks if you pay episodically, 15for the intro and 6x10 for the other episodes. but at least the episodic buyers can now still decide if they want to pay for this "bonus" missions, while full experience buyers who expected 7 episodes as advertised have already paid for an episode with only recycled missions.

it's not that bad, I fully expect to love the recycled missions, but making them the 7th mission I already paid for makes me feel screwed over.

and yes, I know they ever only announced the 6 locations, but that could have meant one country would have another full mission.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Am I the only one thinking naming the episode 7 as "bonus" is wrong?

I don't particularly care how they call it.

It's supposed to be 'bonus' and not a normal episode because it's outside of the normal storyline of the rest of the campaign.

 

[Arkanius]

Guys, why does everyone hate on Marrakesh?
I found it very interesting, setting wise. Sure it's not Sapienza which has a huge area and an idyllic location but still...

 

[Ludens]

I don't particularly care how they call it.

It's supposed to be 'bonus' and not a normal episode because it's outside of the normal storyline of the rest of the campaign.

Yeah, with "bonus" I intend something in addition to what I already have. There's a huge difference. I think, now, a seventh episode was planned, but to cut out costs IO decided to go with the bonus one, so they can re-use those two levels they created, only changing things in and there. A big difference, considering they don't need to create a new level this way.

 

[justjim89]

Guys, why does everyone hate on Marrakesh?
I found it very interesting, setting wise. Sure it's not Sapienza which has a huge area and an idyllic location but still...

Do people not like Marrakesh? I think it's a great location. A beautiful, open-air market and side streets between two heavily-fortified installations. What's not to love?

 

[Moff]

Marrakesh ist just not as pretty as the other 2 and I expected more from the setting. I think both Paris and Sapienza have a lot more interesting end exciting interaction possibilities and opportunities. But they are both easily among the best hitman missions ever, it's ok to "just" have a good one like Marrakesh.

 

[phoenixyz]

I didn't like it because the targets feel disconnected and both are essentially in a military fortified position. Just does not have the Hitman-feel to it. Also imho there aren't a whole lot of cool ways to assassinate the targets.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

People are not bitching about the fact that they pay more or have to pay for the bonus episode or at least I don't. I don't give a shit about that at all. It's an additional $10. I spend more than that every morning on my breakfast.

The issue is that I'm not getting the bonus episode at the same damn time as other people. I also don't give a shit if their model doesn't allow it or if it is too complicated to figure out how to make it available for people who buy each episode separately. Fucking figure it out then.

I can get behind this. I don't think people trying to save a buck buying it piecemeal deserve to be given free shit, but I do think they deserve to access the content at the same time, especially if it costs them extra money. It looks to me like they were trying to be amicable by combining two episodes for one cost, but in doing so caused an even bigger problem by delaying content. They could have sold both bonus episodes at a cost now and only released half of it to those people. A fucking messy situation, but holding it back makes it harsh for sure.

 

[ZeroX03]

I don't think people trying to save a buck buying it piecemeal deserve to be given free shit

People buying it episodic already knew they would be paying more, but not this much more. Giving the bonus episode to everyone would still mean that intro+upgrade and episodic players are still paying more.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Four months after launch, does anyone know how Hitman has been selling?

 

[channie]

Four months after launch, does anyone know how Hitman has been selling?

SteamSpy says about 208k on PC, which is way below average compared to a regular AAA game on this platform.

 

[madjoki]

Four months after launch, does anyone know how Hitman has been selling?

http://steamspy.com/app/236870

Around 200k on PC.

Unfortunately no way to see episode statistics because they are DLC.

 

[ZeroX03]

SteamSpy says about 208k on PC, which is way below average compared to a regular AAA game on this platform.

Those games are generally complete and see deep discounts before they surge. It's hard to tell with Hitman's episodic trajectory. The game as a full package for $20 eventually in Steam sales should do well. A retail presence could be very beneficial for consoles.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

People buying it episodic already knew they would be paying more, but not this much more. Giving the bonus episode to everyone would still mean that intro+upgrade and episodic players are still paying more.

I've already explained that I consider that the fault of the person assuming no more paid content would come, not the developers fault. They never at any point said everything announced was all that would exist, and it wasn't. Even the people that knew about the spurious 7th episode are now faced with an eighth. That was not a popular position, but one I maintain. Don't assume that what is announced is all the paid content that will exist. No one takes that position with any other title, and some are simply pissed that others don't have to pay at all.

Holding it back is shitty though, no two ways about it, especially when they could charge for it and still release it now. It's really odd.

 

[ZeroX03]

I've already explained that I consider that the fault of the person assuming no more paid content would come, not the developers fault. They never at any point said everything announced was all that would exist, and it wasn't. Even the people that knew about the spurious 7th episode are now faced with an eighth. That was not a popular position, but one I maintain. Don't assume that what is announced is all the paid content that will exist. No one takes that position with any other title, and some are simply pissed that others don't have to pay at all.

And I've already explained that you blaming consumers for companies. They knew this content was coming, decided not to properly announce it or clarify their monetization scheme. Their messaging was purposefully confusing and used the worst words possible. You're also talking about it like it's a $60 AAA title that had a season pass and additional DLC on top. This is a game they referred to as a "truly episodic experience". How many episodic games have pulled this kind of ploy?

(Plenty of games with season passes add additional DLC and don't give it to season pass owners for free because it wasn't listed, I assume you wouldn't be pissed if you didn't get the bonus episode because it was never clearly stated as part of the package... right?)

This isn't extra content. This isn't DLC that was decided upon after the fact. It was always planned and then obfuscated. Episodic buyers getting it for "free" would mean they still pay just as much as intro + upgrade players, and not $60 players. If they wanted to charge episodic players even more, the curteous thing to do would have been to properly explain their release plans. But they didn't.

I'm still baffled at people who think this was in any way the player's fault for not understanding the terrible communication on IO & SE's part. Stop blaming consumers.

assuming no more paid content would come

Fun fact: IO specifically said there would be no additional DLC.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I don't think people trying to save a buck buying it piecemeal deserve to be given free shit, but I do think they deserve to access the content at the same time,

It's more expensive to buy every episode.

The sad reality in my case is that I am such a fan of the Hitman series that I was honestly happy with giving IO interactive more money by paying per episode just because I was happy to support the game. I remember making that decision of 'yeah sure why not I'll give em a few extra bucks' as I was looking through the PS store and couldn't find the upgrade pack option.

I never really thought I was saving money, I just thought it was an option, as they never mentioned any content that I wouldn't be able to play.

 

[tryagainlater]

I've already explained that I consider that the fault of the person assuming no more paid content would come, not the developers fault. They never at any point said everything announced was all that would exist, and it wasn't. Even the people that knew about the spurious 7th episode are now faced with an eighth. That was not a popular position, but one I maintain. Don't assume that what is announced is all the paid content that will exist. No one takes that position with any other title, and some are simply pissed that others don't have to pay at all.

Holding it back is shitty though, no two ways about it, especially when they could charge for it and still release it now. It's really odd.

We're only asking for better communication. I would have made different decisions at the start if they were clear with what they were giving.

 

[endlessflood]

Part of the reason I embraced the episodic format was the "prove it to me" nature of it. You put out a good product and I will keep supporting you.

Product has been very good so far

So I have stopped supporting them.

Hahaha

I agree the communication has been terrible. Which is a shame, because the game itself has been incredible.

I played the PS4 Beta and went for the season pass immediately, I'd seen enough to know the game was on exactly the right track and wanted to support both the direction they were taking with the game, and the studio itself. This is such a great and unique series, and I think the gaming landscape as a whole is the better for its existence.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I've just bought the starter pack and I'm really enjoying it.

One question. Is it possible to complete the opportunities in one play through? Or if you chose to do one does that rule out others? Or are they time based?

Thanks

 

[Cromwell]

People who put their faith into the full thing from the start get rewarded. I don't see the problem. Buying it piecemeal gets you exactly what is described each time you make another purchase. If you don't think you got your moneys worth and won't buy the new episodes...

 

[MMaRsu]

People who put their faith into the full thing from the start get rewarded. I don't see the problem. Buying it piecemeal gets you exactly what is described each time you make another purchase. If you don't think you got your moneys worth and won't buy the new episodes...

Haha some of yall are crazy.

Io deceived people buying it in small packs,saying they would get access to the same live content at the same time as everyone else

It has zero to do with fucking faith and being rewarded, dont be such an ass.

Its about a company willfully deceiving people buying into the episodic structure THEY chose.

If it was made clear day one people with " the full experience " would get early access to live content, pay over 15$ less, then yes I would have bought the full pack after the first pack.

BUT THEY DIDNT. IT WASNT CLEAR. Funny how some of you are throwing this mess of communication and lack of respect for your fans on the players instead of the company.

And the funny thing is, most of you doing this have the full experience. I think you guys just trying to to feel better about yourselves or something, and look down upon 'peasants' who have made this decision themselves and therefore are second rate customers in IO's eyes.

Instead of standing with your fellow Hitman fans, you try to shame them by spouting bullshit.

IO clearly deceived and willfully held back information about this bonus episode, which is just two assassinations on maps we have already paid for.

 

[tryagainlater]

Having faith, lol. I guess people who have faith should be rewarded since having any faith and paying for things in advance in this business is fucking crazy. Especially to the company whose last game was Absolution.

Granted, I will continue to buy the new maps so I am a sucker since I'm still giving them money. I won't buy this 'bonus' DLC episode though.

 

[Moff]

And the funny thing is, most of you doing this have the full experience. I think you guys just trying to to feel better about yourselves or something, and look down upon 'peasants' who have made this decision themselves and therefore are second rate customers in IO's eyes.

I have the full experience and I am upset, because the 7th episode turns out to be no real episode at all. that's where they deceived us. and now they are calling it a bonus episode.

but the pricing was always clear, on steam at least, it always said 7 episodes so it was clear you would end up paying 75 bucks if you buy episodically.

BUT, episodic player now have the advantage, because they can still choose to buy this recycled "bonus episode" or not. full experience buyers are fucked, they already paid for it.
so don't tell me episodic buyers were deceived here. the full experience buyers were.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

We're only asking for better communication. I would have made different decisions at the start if they were clear with what they were giving.

The collective 'we' are not asking for that. You may be, and that is fair enough, but the complaints about this vary in cause. As I said there are people annoyed simply because others get it free, not because some have to pay.

People who put their faith into the full thing from the start get rewarded. I don't see the problem. Buying it piecemeal gets you exactly what is described each time you make another purchase. If you don't think you got your moneys worth and won't buy the new episodes...

Pretty much. It's sour grapes from people that made an assumption that has proven to be wrong, and that means more money for the entire collection of content.

 

[Cromwell]

I have the full experience and I am upset, because the 7th episode turns out to be no real episode at all. that's where they deceived us. and now they are calling it a bonus episode.

but the pricing was always clear, on steam at least, it always said 7 episodes so it was clear you would end up paying 75 bucks if you buy episodically.

BUT, episodic player now have the advantage, because they can still choose to buy this recycled "bonus episode" or not. full experience buyers are fucked, they already paid for it.
so don't tell me episodic buyers were deceived here. the full experience buyers were.

At no point anywhere did it say the 7th episode would be a full unique map. They only ever had 6 unique locations listed.

And if we're talking value, I have 35 hours clocked. The full experience is already worth every dollar.

 

[Moff]

At no point anywhere did it say the 7th episode would be a full unique map. They only ever had 6 unique locations listed.

And if we're talking value, I have 35 hours clocked. The full experience is already worth every dollar.

I am not really complaining, I am saying if anyone had the right to be upset, it should be the full experience buyers, not the episodic players. because despite how bad their communication was, one thing was always clear: that episodic buyers would end up paying 75$ if they bought everything.

I will very likely love the three "bonus missions" as I loved everything so far and I trust IO.
still, I would have preferred a unique new mission. the six locations were not a clear hint that we would get recycled missions. it could have had 2 unique missions in paris or wherever.

 

[Lima]

I have the full experience and I am upset, because the 7th episode turns out to be no real episode at all. that's where they deceived us. and now they are calling it a bonus episode.

but the pricing was always clear, on steam at least, it always said 7 episodes so it was clear you would end up paying 75 bucks if you buy episodically.

BUT, episodic player now have the advantage, because they can still choose to buy this recycled "bonus episode" or not. full experience buyers are fucked, they already paid for it.
so don't tell me episodic buyers were deceived here. the full experience buyers were.

Please tell me more about this advantage I have by not being able to play the bonus episode at the same time.

I'm just fucking mad that I have to wait. Who gives a shit about an additional 10 bucks. That's nothing.

 

[ZeroX03]

If you think that the players are more at fault than IO/SE's tragic communication, let me know so I can hit you up on that ignore list. I honestly can't believe people are still defending this. How do we have a "company that hides information, does not communicate full episode plans and refuses to answer questions" defense force?

BUT, episodic player now have the advantage, because they can still choose to buy this recycled "bonus episode" or not. full experience buyers are fucked, they already paid for it.
so don't tell me episodic buyers were deceived here. the full experience buyers were.

And you still end up paying the same price as episodic players while still getting the 'bonus episode'. You paid $60/65. Episodic purchasers have to pay $65 excluding the bonus mission and they still don't have July 19 access to the bonus missions.

The episodic buyers were deceived. That shouldn't be something people are questioning. From your perspective, the bonus episodes don't constitute significant enough content so you feel screwed over too. Nobody wins, this is all on IO/SE and how they weren't clear from the start.

one thing was always clear: that episodic buyers would end up paying 75$ if they bought everything.

That was never clear lol. Nowhere did IO/SE ever say that episodic players would be spending $75. The only place it says that was a Eurogamer article where they were guessing and IO/SE refused to confirm.

 

[Moff]

That was never clear lol. Nowhere did IO/SE ever say that episodic players would be spending $75. The only place it says that was a Eurogamer article where they were guessing and IO/SE refused to confirm.

it absolutely was, STEAM alsways said the full experience is 7 episodes. unless you thought one of those episodes was free you have no reason to not expect to end up paying 75$

 

[ZeroX03]

it absolutely was, STEAM alsways said the full experience is 7 episodes. unless you thought one of those episodes was free you have no reason to not expect to end up paying 75$

As I've pointed out multiple time in Hitman threads, Steam was by far the clearest messaging. They were not nearly as clear on other platforms or in their marketing. And when asked if seven episodes and $75 was the case they never reply.

 

[Moff]

As I've pointed out multiple time in Hitman threads, Steam was by far the clearest messaging. They were not nearly as clear on other platforms or in their marketing. And when asked if seven episodes and $75 was the case they never reply.

yeah then don't say it was never clear when it was clear on steam.

 

[ZeroX03]

yeah then don't say it was never clear when it was clear on steam.

Are you for real? Hitman is on more than one platform. Are you really expecting PlayStation buyers to check Steam before purchasing? Delusional.

And if the company itself is refusing to say "yes it seven episodes for a total of $75" when asked, I consider that incredibly unclear communication.

 

[Alkastelca]

There is no mention of 7 episodes on PSN store.

 

[ffejeromdiks]

yeah then don't say it was never clear when it was clear on steam.

Lol holy shit.

 

[ZeroX03]

There is no mention of 7 episodes on PSN store.

It says "six content releases" and six locations. Now in their own poorly worded way that means six content releases excluding the intro pack so seven episodes, but yeah, awful way to say it that obviously invites misreading.

No excuse for not laying out their release plans like any other sane, responsible company would do. They knew there would be a bonus episode, and they knew episodic players would be paying even more than intro + upgrade and didn't clarify it (other than Steam I guess).