At least he's flipped on the needle-exchange program now.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32072498
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32072498
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HIV epidemic in Indiana county after Governor Pence opposes needle-exchange program
- Thread starter thefro
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Circle Jerk
Member
On one hand, good. Needle exchanges and drug treatment programs are better than letting people die on the streets, or forced into prison. On the other hand, it's completely disgusting how Pence is using this to distract from the Religious bill. It's not a coincidence these both happened on the same day.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
good news from red states this week.
The power of Christ compels you!
HUELEN10
Member
Easy: people like you and me, but not you and me mind you, keep voting for them.
Mercury Fred
Banned
This criminal should be jailed for life with no chance of parole.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
but seriously this is what happens when you make health decisions based on your moral beliefs not on data supported research.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Huh. I've never actually heard of a needle exchange program. How does that work?
Exactly how it sounds. You turn in used needles and get clean needles. Helps stop re-using needles that may have been used by someone HIV positive.
Orbis Tabula
Member
Haha, that was my instinct, but it seemed too simple. I wouldn't have thought of that, but that's a good idea.
Accompanying these programmes include outreach workers who try to educate about safer drug use as well as refer people to other social services.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
it basically just is the government providing clean needles for drug users so they aren't sharing, I don't even think we should have exchanges. Just give them out.
Velcro Fly
Member
Yeah spend my tax dollars to give junkies clean needles
I'd rather you spend my tax dollars on a place to house them where they won't be able to do drugs
I'd rather you spend my tax dollars on a place to house them where they won't be able to do drugs
Like.. a prison?
You do that, too. It makes petty criminals into worse criminals and does nothing to stop drug addiction.
Dominican Power
Member
Which is even more expensive.
shira
Member
One point of the exchange is to give a "safe point" in that person's life and make contact with healthcare workers. A friendly hello. Interested in quitting? Anything we can do for you? Do you need condoms? Do you need testing?
The alternative is nothing. Reuse needles, no hope, no condoms, no testing.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Preventive policy, which is always effective. The conservative argument against it is that by handing out needles (or condoms) you're "promoting" destructive (ie sinful) behavior. In the real world people are going to get high no matter what, so it makes sense to at least make sure they aren't contracting horrible shit like HIV which becomes a public health problem.
Buying needles costs a lot less than treating HIV.
Why not? The government loses more of your taxes on golf courses for congress..and paying banks back that robbed the nation blind. Your taxes are spent on social services as well. So, you're just posting your opinion on people with addiction issues, as well as ignorance of where your taxes are being spent. Now HIV patients will be treated on your dime..
oh the horror. Must be nice to be able to shit on people for no valid reason.
Not taking back the used needles defeats the whole purpose.
Velcro Fly
Member
not quite.
i'd much rather see rehab offered as well.
giving them needles is only going to stop them from contracting HIV. It's not going to stop the actual problem.
also this has been going on for a few months now. Pence was probably too busy beating down the rights of gays to really care about this.
edit: i'm actually FROM Indiana, hence my tax comment.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I'm not arguing against having that. I think that comes with giving them out too. I'm not calling for giving a hundred needles but likes a weeks worth so they have to be in touch and providing consoling and health care if they want it.
How? You're providing them with clean needles. Why would they use the old ones if they have clean ones?
Those are called prisons and they aren't working. We need treatment facilities that offer treatment as well as mental health assistance.
Coriolanus
Banned
Needles are cheaper than HIV meds.
Not your tax dollars either, btw.
Ah.
You're trying to make perfect be the enemy of good.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
PhoenixDark
Banned
How much of your taxes do you want to pay for rehab for drug addicts, I'm curious.
It stops the actually problem of diseases spreading, which it is what it was designed for.
There is always someone who proposes to dismiss a working solution to an actual problem in favor of an unproven unimplentable idealistic solution to a different problem.
Ever been to a playground?
Circle Jerk
Member
Insite in Canada costs $500,000 a year to run. This includes needle exchange, mental health services, and addiction treatment. How the fuck are you going to house drug addicts for less than $500,000 a year? And you know what?
And from Wikipedia here are some of the positives:
Additional research in the Canadian Medical Association Journal suggests that the site has reduced public injections, neighbourhood litter, and needle sharing.[17] Two studies in the journal Addiction and in the New England Journal of Medicine indicate that patients at the site have increased their use of detoxification services and long-term addiction treatment.[18][19] Furthermore, research in The Lancet indicates that the site substantially reduces the sharing of syringes.[20] A study in the journal Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy revealed that local police facilitate use of Insite, especially among high-risk users. The researchers concluded that the site "provides an opportunity to... resolve some of the existing tensions between public order and health initiatives."[21]
A 2008 cost-benefit analysis of the site in the Canadian Medical Association Journal observed net-savings of $18 million and an increase of 1175 life-years over ten years.[22] Another cost-benefit analysis published in the International Journal of Drug Policy in 2010 determined that the site prevents 35 cases of HIV and about 3 deaths per year, indicating a yearly net-societal benefit of more than $6 million.[23] A 2011 study in The Lancet found overdose deaths have dropped 35% in the Insite area since it opened, much more than 9% drop elsewhere in Vancouver.[24] An editorial in the Canadian Medical Association Journal noted that after three years of research "a remarkable consensus that the facility reduces harm to users and the public developed among scientists, criminologists, and even the Vancouver Police Department."
So they're spending less money on health, less people are getting sick, more people are getting treatment, and it's helping bridge the gap between the downtrodden and the police. But because you heard "giving needles to addicts" you just assumed it was just junkies getting clean needles and no positives. You are the type of person who is perpetuating addiction by forcing people into situations where they're sharing needles, or going to prison (which costs a lot of money), or not getting the help they need, because there's no where to go.
But continue worrying about your tax dollars going to the needy. It clearly is working.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
You overestimate people. Of course they'll reuse, even unwittingly, since it can be hard to distinguish which are used.
The used ones need to be disposed of. Do you want them to just toss the needles wherever?
They're drug addicts.
No idea what addiction is.
Fenderputty
Banned
Thanks war on drugs!
Continue banging your head against that wall and follow up with how that turns out for you.
Continue banging your head against that wall and follow up with how that turns out for you.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
I know what addiction is but I'm saying if you provide them with new needles you should "require" they bring old ones back. They should be requested and desired. I have a problem with forcing them to bring them back to get clean needles.
Warm Machine
Member
Reality is that drug users continue to do drugs no matter what. Drug use is a health care issue. Needle exchange is harm reduction and has been proven to work very well.
PhoenixDark
Banned
As Poot would say, "cuz they're dope fiends."
You have a problem with people trying to get dirty needles off the street? Despite the thread your posting in showing what can happen when dirty needles are left to be passed around? Really odd complaint.
Unless it is mandatory, how are they going to get the used needles? Do you honestly think an addict will be responsible enough to turn in the old needles once they already have new ones?
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