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[GaimeGuy]

How do you think the current system works?

Wait.

You legit believe that it's hidden and difficult?

Here, let us engage in a theoretical exercise: if you tried to acquire heroin (and for some reason not through the prescription route, obv), how would you go on about it?

Forget heroin - I wouldn't know how to get marijuana.


Now, if I wanted to carry out the next aurora massacre, society makes everything I need for that easily accessible

 

[The Beard]

How do you think the current system works?

Wait.

You legit believe that it's hidden and difficult?

Here, let us engage in a theoretical exercise: if you tried to acquire heroin (and for some reason not through the prescription route, obv), how would you go on about it?

You realize that prescription drug abuse is a monster right now. Heroin abuse is a mouse fart in comparison.

I didn't say it's impossible to obtain, but it's certainly more difficult to obtain than say, a bottle of Vicadins. I can literally walk into my doctors office right now, say my back is in extreme pain, and walk out with a script. I wouldnt know where to start looking for heroin. I could probably find it eventually, but I have to go out of my way and be determined to track some down.

 

[Link]

Needle exchange programs really sum up the Democrat's agenda.

1) Find a group of people who have put themselves in a bad spot based on stupid decisions.

2) Claim the group are victims.

3) Take money from people who are responsible.

4) Give money to people who are irresponsible.

5) When someone disagrees with the policy, call them names.

This one's got it all!

Ooh, are we playing a game? How about the Republican agenda:

1) Punish everyone as harshly as possible according to some "moral" code.

2) Spend a bunch of money enforcing those punishments and the aftermath of them.

3) ?????

4) Profit!

 

[Fenderputty]

Wait, what ? This is a bad idea all around. Instead of dealers having power over their "victims", drugstores (dealers) would have power over them ?

As of right now you have to be involved with some shady characters to get introduced into heroin. Do you really want it accessible to anybody that walks into a convenience store ? This isn't like weed or alcohol, where you drink or smoke socially on weekends. This is some make you feel better than you've ever felt in your life kind of shit, that makes you want to keep going back until you fall into addiction.

Uhh liqueur store dealers would have federal and state laws to obey. Drug dealers can and will sell to whoever. That's the entire premise of a gateway. The pot dealer usually has access to other stuff. I would imagine a set up more like Utah where there's a few specific spots to purchase from would work well. The money made on taxes could be spent on rehab instead of incarceration.

You realize that prescription drug abuse is a monster right now. Heroin abuse is a mouse fart in comparison.

Heroin is on the rise because it's cheaper and easy to get than oxy.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/10/the-new-heroin-epidemic/382020/

 

[Coriolanus]

You realize that prescription drug abuse is a monster right now. Heroin abuse is a mouse fart in comparison.

What do you think opioids are?

I didn't say it's impossible to obtain, but it's certainly more difficult to obtain than say, a bottle of Vicadins. I can literally walk into my doctors office right now, say my back is in extreme pain, and walk out with a script. I wouldnt know where to start looking for heroin. I could probably find it eventually, but I have to go out of my way and be determined to track some down.

And you'll get the bottle, as you said, and life will go on.
For lower income people, the doctor route is not such an easy option, thus, they go to more unsavoury and far less safe sorts.

At which point this argument branches, evidently. Why should the poor be denied the easy and safe access to drugs that someone such as you have? Why should they have to contend with dangerous drugs and OD's if they want their fix?

There's quite a few other "why"s in there, of course.

Now tie that with the glasgow study that showed that why, it is indeed quite possible to be a heroin junkie and lead a normal life.

The deeper you go, the more unsustainable the current approach is. The more mythical the current approach is. The more needlesly cruel the current approach is.

All we'd be doing is removing the cruelty. And destroying traffickers. And stop pretending that throwing people in prison is any sort of palliative measure.

No offense meant, Beard, but you simply do not know enough about drugs to properly hold an opinion on the subject. I say this not because you oppose mine, but because you're often saying completely baseless or flat out wrong statements.

 

[The Beard]

What do you think opioids are?



And you'll get the bottle, as you said, and life will go on.
For lower income people, the doctor route is not such an easy option, thus, they go to more unsavoury and far less safe sorts.

At which point this argument branches, evidently. Why should the poor be denied the easy and safe access to drugs that someone such as you have? Why should they have to contend with dangerous drugs and OD's if they want their fix?

There's quite a few other "why"s in there, of course.

Now tie that with the glasgow study that showed that why, it is indeed quite possible to be a heroin junkie and lead a normal life.

The deeper you go, the more unsustainable the current approach is. The more mythical the current approach is. The more needlesly cruel the current approach is.

All we'd be doing is removing the cruelty. And destroying traffickers. And stop pretending that throwing people in prison is any sort of palliative measure.

No offense meant, Beard, but you simply do not know enough about drugs to properly hold an opinion on the subject. I say this not because you oppose mine, but because you're often saying completely baseless or flat out wrong statements.

In your scenario, how would one obtain a "prescription" to heroin ? Hey doc, I just want to get fucked up this weekend. Got anything for that ?

There's already a street formula for Heroin, which makes your scenario even more ridiculous. Do you think these people who can't afford needles are going to have the cash to buy the legal "safe heroin" ? Do you think illegal manufacturers won't alter the recipe to make an even cheaper and potentially even more harmful product to undercut the new legal dealers (Big Pharm) ? Do you think these addicts give a fuck about safety or do they just want the cheapest high ? They're sharing needles because they can't afford new ones ffs.

Should we make legal heroin free for those with low or no-incomes ?

I respect your opinion btw, I just think you're way off on this.

 

[Sol..]

Needle exchange programs really sum up the Democrat's agenda.

1) Find a group of people who have put themselves in a bad spot based on stupid decisions.

2) Claim the group are victims.

3) Take money from people who are responsible.

4) Give money to people who are irresponsible.

5) When someone disagrees with the policy, call them names.

This one's got it all!

Each party takes money from "the responsible" and then gives it to a variety of people which may include the "irresponsible" and/or the "irresponsibly rich". One thing is for sure tho. This ain't about giving some irresponsible victims some cash to shoot up. This about preventing the transmission a few dangerous diseases that can only be transmitted a few ways.... you belly-itcher.

 

[Fenderputty]

In your scenario, how would one obtain a "prescription" to heroin ? Hey doc, I just want to get fucked up this weekend. Got anything for that ?

There's already a street formula for Heroin, which makes your scenario even more ridiculous. Do you think these people who can't afford needles are going to have the cash to buy the legal "safe heroin" ? Do you think illegal manufacturers won't alter the recipe to make an even cheaper and potentially even more harmful product to undercut the new legal dealers (Big Pharm) ? Do you think these addicts give a fuck about safety or do they just want the cheapest high ? They're sharing needles because they can't afford new ones ffs.

Should we make legal heroin free for those with low or no-incomes ?

I respect your opinion btw, I just think you're way off on this.

Did you just imply that a black market would be cheaper than a market dominated by big pharma (economies of scale)

Did you gloss over the increase in heroin due to an increase in popularity of OxyContin and it's fall in availability?

Did you know that Portugal decriminalized all drugs and has seen usage numbers DROP!?

 

[FLEABttn]

Needle exchange programs really sum up the Democrat's agenda.

1) Find a group of people who have put themselves in a bad spot based on stupid decisions.

2) Claim the group are victims.

3) Take money from people who are responsible.

4) Give money to people who are irresponsible.

5) When someone disagrees with the policy, call them names.

This one's got it all!

Who cares if the societal cost of increased HIV infection rates is greater than the cost of harm prevention when you get to feel so smug about it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Needle exchange programs really sum up the Democrat's agenda.

1) Find a group of people who have put themselves in a bad spot based on stupid decisions.

2) Claim the group are victims.

3) Take money from people who are responsible.

4) Give money to people who are irresponsible.

5) When someone disagrees with the policy, call them names.

This one's got it all!

Yes, that's correct; the Democratic agenda is to find people who are in a bad spot and help them and push back against those who do not want to help even though they can.

 

[Fenderputty]

Yes, that's correct; the Democratic agenda is to find people who are in a bad spot and help them and push back against those who do not want to help even though they can.

Tyranny!

 

[alejob]

This is why I love GAF so much sometimes. For every person who has idiotic thoughts like this guy, there are ten people to put him in his place.

Locking people up for drug use has never stopped the drug addiction problem. Once an addict gets out of prison, what do you think he or she is going to turn to?

I love you too Camwi. I never said put them in jail They maybe sick and addicts, but they are also criminals. I'm saying there has to be a better answer. Obviously everyone is accepting that giving them needles as a solution when it's still not the right answer in my opinion. At least I hope they are handing info on how to get help with every needle exchange.

 

[ivysaur12]

Yes, that's correct; the Democratic agenda is to find people who are in a bad spot and help them and push back against those who do not want to help even though they can.

We've been found.

 

[Link]

I love you too Camwi. I never said put them in jail They maybe sick and addicts, but they are also criminals. I'm saying there has to be a better answer. Obviously everyone is accepting that giving them needles as a solution when it's still not the right answer in my opinion. At least I hope they are handing info on how to get help with every needle exchange.

You misunderstand. Needle exchange is not a solution to addiction; it is a preventive health measure to limit the spread of disease in the meantime.

 

[davepoobond]

I love you too Camwi. I never said put them in jail They maybe sick and addicts, but they are also criminals. I'm saying there has to be a better answer. Obviously everyone is accepting that giving them needles as a solution when it's still not the right answer in my opinion. At least I hope they are handing info on how to get help with every needle exchange.

when has anyone ever said that exchanging needles is a solution to curing addiction? Other than Pence who thinks it is supposed to.

the point is to stop the spread of HIV. HIV. HIV>>>>>drug usage

 

[Dali]

You can go to the NADCP site and they openly admit they only get a fraction of the people in the system. The system need to be expanded and money that currently goes to fighting the pushers should be funneled to the root of the problem and fund these rehab programs instead.

I think this may be more of a issue with how the police trump up charges and get people to bypass a trial by fear tactics or maybe the poor having a shitty public defender better served by an instant adjudication rather than something pending for year or years rather than any shortcomings of those programs.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Needle exchange programs really sum up the Democrat's agenda.

1) Find a group of people who have put themselves in a bad spot based on stupid decisions.

2) Claim the group are victims.

3) Take money from people who are responsible.

4) Give money to people who are irresponsible.

5) When someone disagrees with the policy, call them names.

This one's got it all!

You forget one important thing though: it's been illustrated time and time again that NOT doing a needle exchange ends up costing the responsible people much more money in the long run. So while paying a small amount for it may not strike you as "fair" (and remember one of the first things you were taught is that life isn't fair; there's no such thing) it's the best possible course of action. And I'm all for choosing the best possible course of action over choosing the better principle.