Sibersk Esto
Banned
4 lyfe
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Hollywood Hogan's nWo: Let's talk about it and remember
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TarpitCarnivore
Member
I wish I could remember. I really need to re-watch the special. I know he was given a lot of control when he came over, but I feel like I recall him and Bischoff talking about how there were issues around this time already.
shoplifter
Member
No way, he's Andre's son!
edit: PLEASE TELL ME I DIDN'T JUST SEE SOMEONE RAGGING ON NORMAN SMILEY
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I forget why I started watching wrestling again around this time but I just did. I remember when the nWo originally started showing up and just thinking "what the hell!" I was immediately hooked and my friends weren't getting why I was watching WCW over WWE. It wasn't until the Hogan situation that they all started jumping on board. What transpired was easily the best moments of wrestling for that time. It was just week after week of chaos and great stories transpiring. Like everyone else has said, when it started getting into being 10+ members and split offs of the Wolpack things just went down hill. The WWE responding with Attitude was probably the highlight of wrestling for me. Nothing since has gotten me excited when watching wrestling since that time frame (95/96 - 99/00).
I can't remember exactly but was the WWE's stable surge in 97 a direct response to nWo and Wolfpack?
I can't remember exactly but was the WWE's stable surge in 97 a direct response to nWo and Wolfpack?
Superman x JLA
Member
This was a great time to watch. Imagine how good the Cena promos could be if he did a legit heel turn.
Not going to happen
TarpitCarnivore
Member
That's exactly how they portrayed Dibiase
shoplifter
Member
Yeah, it was poorly worded. It worked because both Dibiase and Rotunda were both former WWE guys that had money-based gimmicks. Even then, if I remember correctly, it was almost always Dibiase pulling the money card out during the NWO run and Rotunda was just there for the ride.
lovely ladies
Member
This shouldn't even be in doubt but nwo was a million times better than degeneration x.
It's only a giveaway with the gift of hindsight.
No one believed it would happen, thus it didn't mean anything and wouldn't have served as a spoiler for anyone who heard the line.
Ninja Scooter
Member
I think that was Bobby Heenan just playing the heel commentator role. Of course he wouldn't trust the face, he thinks they are all jerkbags. If anything it almost reinforced that Hogan was a 'good guy' to have the heel questioning his actions.
Ken Masters
Banned
NWO was Nash and Hall, hogan was always lame and corny next to those two. The outsiders made NWO cool, not hogan and his cartoon evil gimmick. Nash exposed this during the Wolfpack feud
Hey now...Vincent is the worst addition to nWo. Out of everyone. Yes even worse than The Disciple aka Brutus the Barber Beefcake
I agree with this, actually. Hogan's heel turn was definitely the shock value explosion that was needed to bring attention to the nWo and WCW in general but Nash and Hall's charisma are what carried the nWo more so.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
After Hogan came on it became the Hogan show. Then it became the Bischoff show. It was so much cooler when Hall and Nash just were walking around "jumping" other wrestlers.
Ninja Scooter
Member
in retrospect the freshness of the angle didn't last very long and they started milking the shit out of it almost immediately, but for me it really jumped the shark with the red/black split, especially when Hogan joined the nwo red and started dressing like an extra from American Me.
John Bender
Banned
Well yes! Austin+Vince was damn good, but the nWo angle is unmatched.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
I think for the angle they were attempting, sure. But I think DX did a whole hell of a lot more funny things that kept people watching.
Them going to the WCW taping? That was gold.
Masquerader
Member
I actually prefer Hollywood Hogan to Hulk Hogan (although I wasn't around during Hulk Hogan's 'Hulkamania' craze, and was too young to know about WCW, so maybe that explains my more neutral outlook). He just seemed a more interesting, fleshed-out character. Also, that stubble perfectly defined him as a different character.
It eventually started to go a bit off (oh sweet Ultimate Warrior, why did you even bother~?), but at least Hogan fought The Rock some time later in what was, to me, one of the more enjoyable matches.
Although I did miss Razor Ramon.
Anyways, it was quite awesome to have something showy and cool, but WASN'T WWF. I wish that someone had tried to compete with WWE again, but with similar levels of quality to WCW (damn TNA's so unbelievably bad). Still, I'd say that this was one of the high points of the timeline of Wrestlin'.
It eventually started to go a bit off (oh sweet Ultimate Warrior, why did you even bother~?), but at least Hogan fought The Rock some time later in what was, to me, one of the more enjoyable matches.
Although I did miss Razor Ramon.
Anyways, it was quite awesome to have something showy and cool, but WASN'T WWF. I wish that someone had tried to compete with WWE again, but with similar levels of quality to WCW (damn TNA's so unbelievably bad). Still, I'd say that this was one of the high points of the timeline of Wrestlin'.
How is this even an argument.
The NWO angle directly lead to the death of WCW. They buried the company so much that everyone stopped caring about it.
The Austin-Hogan angle made so much money it's allowed McMahon to go public, blow nearly a billion dollars on terrible ideas like the XFL, 2 senate runs for Linda and a Movie company, and the promotion is the biggest wrestling company in the world.
The NWO angle directly lead to the death of WCW. They buried the company so much that everyone stopped caring about it.
The Austin-Hogan angle made so much money it's allowed McMahon to go public, blow nearly a billion dollars on terrible ideas like the XFL, 2 senate runs for Linda and a Movie company, and the promotion is the biggest wrestling company in the world.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
One reason why I feel nWo was better than Austin/McMahon is because the nWo was a company-wide angle, at least at the start, yet focused - and there was a lot going on with it.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
That was the whole reason Nash and Hall did the nWo angle. At the time wrestling storylines, matches and moves really didn't evolve a whole lot. Lucha libre stuff was gaining some ground but not a ton. nWo was their way of disrupting the status quo in wrestling. nWo kicked off Attitude which also brought with it the extreme aspects of ECW.
It really was the catalyst for a whole new era of wrestling.
Nash had power but he didn't get the book IIRC until around when he was feuding with Savage.
Ninja Scooter
Member
The Austin-Hogan angle developed the Rock, and the D-X stuff which took WWE to heights that WCW never reached.
The reasons angles developed slower back then was because of how TV worked. Just go look back at the first year of Nitro when it was 1 hour- Sting wreslted once on the first 5 episodes, and didn't appear on every episode.
Can you imagine how newsworthy it would be in John Cena missed 2 out of 3 Raws today? THAT USED TO BE NORMAL. Longer shows and more shows lead to stories playing out quicker.
TarpitCarnivore
Member
By evolve I meant as a whole, evolutionary wise. Wrestling in '95 wasn't much different from wrestling in '85. TV and broadcasting certainly played a part, but you can't deny the nWo angle wasn't a huge change for wrestling as a whole.
The Horror the horror
Banned
I sort of disagree.
Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were admirable lieutenants, but individually they didn't have the same star power and world-wide recognition as Hogan whom I felt firmly legitimized the invasion angle as he was at that time the biggest star the WWE had ever produced. In retrospect, I think the angle would have worked better without him, but I never thought he'd hog up the nWo spotlight as much as he did.
If you actually watch some of the earlier Nitro episodes or WCW PPVs around that time, there was a moment where I think Lex Luger was coming to the ring and Heenan still did the "Whose side is he on?" remark. Really it was Heenan staying true to his character in not trusting anyone. Would have been a lot weirder to see Heenan cheering on Hogan.
NWO when it first started was good. Then they became stupid and they became stupid at the worst possible time.
Also Austin v McMahon is the best and important rivalry in wrestling.
They were both the top face and top heel, and this feud somehow elevated them past that. McMahon became such a heel, that The Rock and Triple H benefited.
WCW without NWO would have never made it past 1998. WWF without Austin probably got better
Also Austin v McMahon is the best and important rivalry in wrestling.
They were both the top face and top heel, and this feud somehow elevated them past that. McMahon became such a heel, that The Rock and Triple H benefited.
WCW without NWO would have never made it past 1998. WWF without Austin probably got better
BobTheFork
Member
No, it's a giveaway because the other announcers at the table with him all reacted to it and tried to get him to shut up. It doesn't matter if Heenan has been giving out to Hogan for years, he never should have said that.
Masquerader
Member
Mhm! Quite the advance from strong yet fat men running into each other (not to diss them, but it was a huge step forward anyway)~
On a related note,
This theme of Hogan is my favourite
Sibersk Esto
Banned
WCW/NWO Revenge baby
It was on a national level but the wheels were already in motion with what ECW was doing. Bischoff was already starting to bring in people like Benoit, Sabu, Public Enemy in 1995. The luchadors came in about the same time as Nash did.
I think you have to give credit to the regional promotions in the 80s like Mid-South and USWA to some extent too, since ECW borrowed a lot from them.
GillianSeed79
Member
I was in college during the Monday night wars and it was amazing seeing the two companies going at each other and trying outdo each other. I was WWF fan as a kid, but early NWO-era WCW was consistently amazing compared to the WWE. It also helped that WcW/NWO revenge, the greatest wrestling game of all time, came out around then. Maybe it's because I never liked the half-baked attitude era. It all seem so forced and reactionary.
Buckethead
Banned
The nWo was fun and exciting when it was nWo vs. WCW and again when the Wolfpack came around although it quickly fell apart from there.
njean777
Member
Disagree completely. Though as a wrestling fan I am in the minority on this. The NWO was boring as fuck and the only thing it accomplished was that it killed a company because they couldn't let go.
I don't remember seeing WCW/NWO Revenge anywhere on the box for WWF No Mercy
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Yeah but it's a sweet logo
So many memories from that time.
There is no doubt even if WCW died in the end what they did with the nWo changed and charged wrestling for a good number of years. It caused the WWE to finally pull themselves up and change things up itself. It made people. It got wrestling out to a bigger audience. Wrestling exploded. People wore the shirts openly. It was cool.
For those of us who are older and watched wrestling for years Hogans heel turn was a massive story. Him going to WCW was note worthy maybe but him going bad? That was akin to Jesus coming from the Heavens and giving you the finger. You did not believe it could ever happen. You were left in shock.
There is no doubt even if WCW died in the end what they did with the nWo changed and charged wrestling for a good number of years. It caused the WWE to finally pull themselves up and change things up itself. It made people. It got wrestling out to a bigger audience. Wrestling exploded. People wore the shirts openly. It was cool.
For those of us who are older and watched wrestling for years Hogans heel turn was a massive story. Him going to WCW was note worthy maybe but him going bad? That was akin to Jesus coming from the Heavens and giving you the finger. You did not believe it could ever happen. You were left in shock.
I could never agree with that. I didn't really find NWO to be cool, had little interest in most of the wrestlers involved, and what WCW I watched, it was always the NWO being way too dominant.
On the other side, DX had guys I actually cared about, they had a much younger/hipper vibe, and I think they ended up doing more interesting stuff over time.
fixed
crimzonflame
Member
NWO got old really fast. I only watched WCW for Jericho and the cruiserweights. Once Goldberg debuted and was 139-0 three weeks later, I knew WCW was shit.
I still liked Goldberg. The Nitro where he beat Hogan was the craziest non-violent live crowd I've ever seen.
ratcliffja
Member
The nWo was great, but they had no idea where to go with the angle. They were crippled by the fact that the ones dominating were mostly older wrestlers who weren't all that exciting in the ring. They'd already established the nWo's dominance by destroying a lot of their up and coming stars. Other than DDP, Goldberg, and Sting, they didn't have many believable stars. If they'd just dissolved the nWo after Goldberg beat Hogan, I think things would have gone a lot smoother. At that point, they still could have elevated Jericho as a legitimate heel and still done the DDP heel turn. WCW wasn't killed by the nWo, it was killed by Bischoff not wanting to go away from the storyline that got him bigger than the WWF to begin with.
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