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Holy shit, Knights of Sidonia may have the best production values of an anime ever

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M

Mononoke

Banned
Amir0x said:
There was a thread maybe a year ago now, I forgot the name of it, that mentioned it and showed gifs, and I purchased it around then. I watched it about January for the first time iirc, maybe February. Since then though I've watched it pretty consistently to stop frames and try to mimic some of the art, so I can improve my own art.

5 CM sounds fantastic, I think I will watch that one next.
Click to expand...

Surprised you haven't seen 5 CM yet. It has some of the most beautiful/animation music I've seen (get the soundtrack, it's amazing). However, don't go into the movie expecting an emphasis on story. It's not abstract, but it's more focused on capturing "emotions/feelings". Shinkai is pretty obsessed with that.

I would say, Garden of Words was probably his most straight forward narrative. So if you are looking for a front to back narrative with pay off, it's kind of there, but not really? Just go into it for the beautiful art, and the emotion he's able to capture (it really will give you the feels). Shinaki generally is more concerned about capturing emotion/feeling than anything else. Journey to Agarth (or Children Who Chase Lost Voices) is his fantasy epic, that is an homage to Miyazaki. So that one is worth checking out too (even if it has some flaws), it's a beautiful story.

I personally think Garden of Words is his best work, but people seem to gravitate towards 5CM and Voices of A Distant Star.
 
T

tuffy

Member
Azula said:
I just meant, if you are a casual person watching, it's probably not worth the price.
Click to expand...
It would be nice if Sentai would license-rescue 5cm Per Second and The Place Promised in Our Early Days since they've already released The Children Who Chase Lost Voices and Garden Of Words, but maybe they'll come through eventually with more economical releases.
I fucked up and didn't buy The Girl Who Leapt Through Time on Blu Ray, and Bandai stopped making copies (for the US region). Prices on Amazon and Ebay are like $120-150. Fuckin ridiculous. I've always wanted that one on Blu Ray, as I most of Hosoda's work on Blu Ray. Makes me so sad. I SHOULD just buy a region free Blu Ray player, that would solve a lot of problems. Unfortunately, I use my PS4/Xbox One and PC a lot, so I prefer US region.
Click to expand...
It helps that the US and Japan are in the same Blu Ray region now (unlike with DVD) and many Japanese releases are region-free to begin with. I do get envious sometimes when Madman puts out a region B release ahead of the US - but not quite envious enough to find a region-free player like I did with DVD.

That said, Bandai's exit from the market has left a lot of titles in limbo. Even pretty recent stuff like K-On! is still working its way back to the market.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
tuffy said:
It would be nice if Sentai would license-rescue 5cm Per Second and The Place Promised in Our Early Days since they've already released The Children Who Chase Lost Voices and Garden Of Words, but maybe they'll come through eventually with more economical releases.

It helps that the US and Japan are in the same Blu Ray region now (unlike with DVD) and many Japanese releases are region-free to begin with. I do get envious sometimes when Madman puts out a region B release ahead of the US - but not quite envious enough to find a region-free player like I did with DVD.

That said, Bandai's exit from the market has left a lot of titles in limbo. Even pretty recent stuff like K-On! is still working its way back to the market.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I wonder if the Japanese release of that title has the English Subs? Sometimes they don't. Because I'm surprised there aren't more copies online for sale. I mean, even Japanese titles imported are usually only $10-20 marked up (or just sold at cost). But all I can find is $125-150 for the US version. So insane. I could never find it in myself to pay that much for it. Even as a collector, ugh.
 
A

Amir0x

Banned
Azula said:
Surprised you haven't seen 5 CM yet. It has some of the most beautiful/animation music I've seen (get the soundtrack, it's amazing). However, don't go into the movie expecting an emphasis on story. It's not abstract, but it's more focused on capturing "emotions/feelings". Shinkai is pretty obsessed with that.

I would say, Garden of Words was probably his most straight forward narrative. So if you are looking for a front to back narrative with pay off, it's kind of there, but not really? Just go into it for the beautiful art, and the emotion he's able to capture (it really will give you the feels). Shinaki generally is more concerned about capturing emotion/feeling than anything else. Journey to Agarth (or Children Who Chase Lost Voices) is his fantasy epic, that is an homage to Miyazaki. So that one is worth checking out too (even if it has some flaws), it's a beautiful story.

I personally think Garden of Words is his best work, but people seem to gravitate towards 5CM and Voices of A Distant Star.
Click to expand...

For me I view anime often almost as an art gallery. There is some jaw droppingly beautiful background art at times, some impressive character animations in isolation. I mean, there's just some incredibly talented Japanese artists, and that impresses me often quite a bit more than the writing of many anime, which frequently I have trouble relating to. So, for me, the knowledge that 5CM is so beautiful to look at is why I have no problem jumping in on it, even without knowing if I'd like the story or not. Because I'd end up enjoying my analysis of its art, and trying to emulate some of its approaches in my own art (poorly, as always. But inspirational!).

The anime I do enjoy usually seems to be different than the mainstream tastes for anime, but I did love Samurai Champloo and didn't really get into Cowboy Bebop. I adore Monster, but don't like things like One Piece or DBZ. I really liked Gankutsuo, but found the mecha part a bit distracting. I cannot stomach Evangelion whatsoever, but am genuinely obsessed with all Miyazaki's work and much of Studio Ghibli's output (his are some of the few I love not just for the art, but the story). Also loved most of Satoshi Kon's output :(
 
W

wmlk

Member
Azula said:
Surprised you haven't seen 5 CM yet. It has some of the most beautiful/animation music I've seen (get the soundtrack, it's amazing). However, don't go into the movie expecting an emphasis on story. It's not abstract, but it's more focused on capturing "emotions/feelings". Shinkai is pretty obsessed with that.

I would say, Garden of Words was probably his most straight forward narrative. So if you are looking for a front to back narrative with pay off, it's kind of there, but not really? Just go into it for the beautiful art, and the emotion he's able to capture (it really will give you the feels). Shinaki generally is more concerned about capturing emotion/feeling than anything else. Journey to Agarth (or Children Who Chase Lost Voices) is his fantasy epic, that is an homage to Miyazaki. So that one is worth checking out too (even if it has some flaws), it's a beautiful story.

I personally think Garden of Words is his best work, but people seem to gravitate towards 5CM and Voices of A Distant Star.
Click to expand...

Shinkai's main thing is "distance". Whether it's the physical or emotional distance between two characters, or how far away something seems. The theme always resonated with me the most and that automatically makes Shinkai my favourite writer/director.

The whole soliloquy by the MC in The Garden of Words about how the sky feels closer when it rains is something that I've always felt. Some think it's a bit pretentious but oh well. I like it. It's best if you watch his stuff alone.

And why isn't this a Hyouka or Shinkai thread?
 
S

SRG01

Member
Knights of Sidonia has to be one of the most intense shows I've watched, counting both American and Anime. The great thing about it is that it's a raw science fiction epic that isn't bogged down by its mythos.

Also, I hear that it's entirely CG as well which is pretty amazing considering the cel-shading and traditional anime styles.
 
T

tuffy

Member
Azula said:
Yeah. I wonder if the Japanese release of that title has the English Subs? Sometimes they don't. Because I'm surprised there aren't more copies online for sale. I mean, even Japanese titles imported are usually only $10-20 marked up (or just sold at cost). But all I can find is $125-150 for the US version. So insane. I could never find it in myself to pay that much for it. Even as a collector, ugh.
Click to expand...
Amazon.co.jp still seems to have some copies but the YesAsia page for it says it only has Japanese language and subtitles, which makes it not so import-friendly. It's very unfortunate.
 
M

M3d10n

Member
GMN said:
The battles look good, but i had no problems whatsoever telling that anything was CGI; that honestly just sounds like hyperbole to me. Outside of a few instances i didn't have an issue with the look itself, but the jerky animation with the humans is jarring and weird. It seems to improve as the series goes along at least (or maybe I just got used to it). The mouth animation also looked bizarre at times.

As far as the storytelling goes, the characters are so bland it's almost impressive. You'd think it'd be impossible to get through 12 episodes without establishing more than 2 recognizable character traits (and often only 1), but this show manages to pull it off somehow. I had to tell two of the love interests apart by their haircuts. The plot itself is deeply cliched, but it's pulled off well enough to at least partially hold my interest, and the battles were good.
Click to expand...

I can only imagine Knights of Sidonia is the result of editors pestering Tsutomu Nihei to write a more "normal" manga instead of focusing 100% on the mind-fucking sci-fi he's so famous for. I guess it worked, since I think it's his first work that got adapted into a TV series.

Actually, I think what actually makes KoS interesting and entertaining is exactly Nihei's brand of sci-fi, which isn't as crazy as his past works but retains most the bleak charm, transhumanist and posthumanist concepts his famous for. The character development is meh-ish for most part.
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
my only real issue was it took me half the season to be able to properly tell certain characters apart.

Beyond that it was gorgeous
 
F

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Chariot said:
You seriously didn't see that?

I guess it's terrible. Really, you should watch Ars Nova, it's the better full CG-anime show.

I am sounding angry and pushy, don't I? I am not angry. Just pushy.
Click to expand...

Yeah ars nova CGI was pretty good actually.
 
S

SRG01

Member
Zeus Molecules said:
my only real issue was it took me half the season to be able to properly tell certain characters apart.

Beyond that it was gorgeous
Click to expand...

LOL yes, I had the same problem too. I think it was somewhat deliberate though since
the whole premise is that most of them are genetic clones or at least variants of clones
.
 
N

Ninjimbo

Member
The production values were good. I don't usually watch CG shows but this one caught my interest with slick character designs and an interesting universe. I felt the animation did enough to not be a distraction which is a problem in a lot of shows that use CG models. The first season of The Legend of Korra has that problem and it's a damn eyesore at times.

Anyways, KoS is a good show, but it leans too much on established tropes for it to be truly special. Conceptually, I love the show since it has so many great and interesting ideas like humans being able to photosynthesize and genderless humans, but it's not really explored all that much in the show. I'm going to end up reading the manga because I like the universe and the mysteries are interesting enough for me.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
M3d10n said:
I can only imagine Knights of Sidonia is the result of editors pestering Tsutomu Nihei to write a more "normal" manga instead of focusing 100% on the mind-fucking sci-fi he's so famous for. I guess it worked, since I think it's his first work that got adapted into a TV series.

Actually, I think what actually makes KoS interesting and entertaining is exactly Nihei's brand of sci-fi, which isn't as crazy as his past works but retains most the bleak charm, transhumanist and posthumanist concepts his famous for. The character development is meh-ish for most part.
Click to expand...

see, that's the thing: the setting of the show is honestly pretty interesting, but it focuses so much on a by-the-numbers plot and ridiculously bland characters that it doesn't really matter. i wanted to know more about pretty much everything but what the show chose to tell me more of
 
M

M3d10n

Member
GMN said:
see, that's the thing: the setting of the show is honestly pretty interesting, but it focuses so much on a by-the-numbers plot and ridiculously bland characters that it doesn't really matter. i wanted to know more about pretty much everything but what the show chose to tell me more of
Click to expand...

I haven't read the manga, but I suppose it to afford to delve deeper into that stuff (since Nihei loves it) and it's easier to skip the cookie cutter attempts at romance.

Also, check Nihei's previous works like Blame! and Biomega. The settings are basically the true main character and he didn't bother with love interests or whiny main characters, which exist solely to blow shit up and show off the scenery porn.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
There are studios who do CG in a somewhat decent manner in TV anime, and that's Ufotable and Orange. Neither of them focus on trying to make CG humans because they know it's a fools errand when you can do so many other things e.g mechanical objects. Why does CG in anime tend to look so poor? Because all the talent goes into videogames, and it has done for years.

On a side note, I guess it's kind of interesting to think about "the best production values in any anime ever". Does that mean 'raw horse power' e.g. fluid animation? Does that interesting animation from talented artists? Does that mean consistently good animation or the occasional impressive burst? What about background art? Design? What about the overall art direction? It seems like it could mean a number of things.

I suppose it would make sense to focus on TV animation, such as Sidonia, rather than all anime. I haven't seen that many shows but out of all the shows I'd have Sidonia somewhere around the 400's in terms of overall production quality. Not terrible, but brought down throughout by awful looking character animation.

So what would be higher on my list? I guess near the top we'd have to have shows like:

- Dennou Coil
- Kemonozume
- Kaiba
- Escaflowne
- Future Boy Conan
- K-On!!
- Hyouka
- Votoms
- Cobra
- City Hunter
- Dirty Pair
- Noein
- Birdy the Mighty Decode
- Cowboy Bebop
- Samurai Champloo
- Windy Tales
- Casshern Sins
- FMA
- Xam'd
- Eureka Seven
- Gurren Lagann

Or something like that.

Edit: After a quick check, I guess something like this would be a good starting point: http://2chan.us/wordpress/2010/05/01/sakugawikis-list-of-recommended-sakuga-anime/#tv
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Sum4joa.jpg


Best volume.

http://a.pomf.se/vtrlzg.webm
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
wmlk said:
Shinkai's main thing is "distance". Whether it's the physical or emotional distance between two characters, or how far away something seems. The theme always resonated with me the most and that automatically makes Shinkai my favourite writer/director.

The whole soliloquy by the MC in The Garden of Words about how the sky feels closer when it rains is something that I've always felt. Some think it's a bit pretentious but oh well. I like it. It's best if you watch his stuff alone.

And why isn't this a Hyouka or Shinkai thread?
Click to expand...

Yeah. I think he does a great job capturing those kind of emotions. I think his films always really impact me on a deep emotional level.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Amir0x said:
For me I view anime often almost as an art gallery. There is some jaw droppingly beautiful background art at times, some impressive character animations in isolation. I mean, there's just some incredibly talented Japanese artists, and that impresses me often quite a bit more than the writing of many anime, which frequently I have trouble relating to. So, for me, the knowledge that 5CM is so beautiful to look at is why I have no problem jumping in on it, even without knowing if I'd like the story or not. Because I'd end up enjoying my analysis of its art, and trying to emulate some of its approaches in my own art (poorly, as always. But inspirational!).

The anime I do enjoy usually seems to be different than the mainstream tastes for anime, but I did love Samurai Champloo and didn't really get into Cowboy Bebop. I adore Monster, but don't like things like One Piece or DBZ. I really liked Gankutsuo, but found the mecha part a bit distracting. I cannot stomach Evangelion whatsoever, but am genuinely obsessed with all Miyazaki's work and much of Studio Ghibli's output (his are some of the few I love not just for the art, but the story). Also loved most of Satoshi Kon's output :(
Click to expand...

I'm sure you will love it then. And yeah, I really love Miyzaki/Ghibli and Kon's work. Sooo good. My introduction into anime was actually through film. Took me a long time to finally start watching TV shows. I was pretty turned off by the moe/fans service stuff. Not to sound artsy fartsy, but I appreciated the more artier aspect of Anime cinema.

There is some really good TV shows. I feel like, I've kind of run out of films to watch though. Which is a bummer. I'm always waiting for new films to come out and be translated. Last year we got Wolf Children and Garden of Words. And those were incredible. I also really liked the Wind Rises.
 
K

Ken

Member
Well, at least this series doesn't hype up basements.

On the bright side I'm going to watch Hyouka thanks to this thread.
 
Lord Panda

Lord Panda

The Sea is Always Right
I hated the art direction but after the first few episodes I didn't care. I really enjoyed the first season - what a brutal and uncompromising show.
 
Peterthumpa

Peterthumpa

Member
Well, good to see the thread turning into a secondary discussion to anime production values in general.

Just finished watching the first (and only season) and my point still stands, it's a really, really well made anime with impeccable production and yes, even animation. Obviously, not 100% consistent, but a damn fine job.
 
D

Dio Brando

Banned
watched the 1st season with friends on my birthday last week. on the first episodes, the framerate is indeed jarring, but the plot is great, and as the season went on, their budget got better and framerate and animation got way better too. Hoping S2 is amazing.
 
T

thenexus6

Member
Going to watch second episode of P4GA then will check a few episodes if this out tonight.. and while we're at it Mokoto Shinkai is god. The art in those films is almost unrivaled.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
I watched the first episode on Netflix as a result of this thread, and I have to say I'm not really impressed. Is there a low frame rate or something? It looks really..."janky".

Edit:

Tom_Cody said:
I guess this thread has become mostly about CG anime, but I would have to go with Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise (王立宇宙軍 オネアミスの翼)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpHPizOiRbE&hd=1
Click to expand...

This, on the other hand, looks super cool.
 
Y

Yahsper

Member
You guys are crazy. This looks really good. The story is not all too impressive and sure the art style is not fantastic but that has little to do with production values. And it's not really fair to compare a series to a movie either. Totally different kind of budgets at hand.

I just finished Knights of Sidonia today and continued watching Attack on Titan afterwards (the show bores me but Netflix queued it up so I thought I'd give it another chance).

Attack on Titan is like watching a damn slideshow. So frustrating to watch.

Knights of Sidonia may be janky at times but at least it has movement. Production value is great, artistic value...Ehhh.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Azula said:
Yep Garden of Words is stunning. I went to Shinjuku park in April and visited a lot of the spots and was blown away by how 1:1 the movie was to real life.

Shinkai's movies are flawed but the style/animation is breathtaking.

Code: 
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xYe9ZnI.jpg[/IMG]
Click to expand...

Huh. Did the background artists just paint over photographs then? Not that I'm dismissing the quality of the work, just seems like a queer thing to do for an animated movie.
 
Jex

Jex

Member
Coxy said:
this list cites evangelion so noteworthy may not mean good
Click to expand...

Noteworthy, in this instance, mean brilliantly animated sequences. It doesn't mean consistency.

I mean, most people would agree that Evangelion features excellent animation.
jett said:
Huh. Did the background artists just paint over photographs then? Not that I'm dismissing the quality of the work, just seems like a queer thing to do for an animated movie.
Click to expand...

I don't know what Shinkai's exact process is, but he generally uses real world settings to give his movies authenticity and a grounded setting.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
jett said:
Huh. Did the background artists just paint over photographs then? Not that I'm dismissing the quality of the work, just seems like a queer thing to do for an animated movie.
Click to expand...

There was a cool post on reddit that was about his process. I'm out right now but I'll post it later. I can't answer your question. But I do know Shinkai will go to real life locations and spend weeks there looking at them. To be fair the majority of the animation isn't backdrops and are new places. But he generally likes to base certain parts in the real world.

For instance in Journey to Agartha which is mostly in a fantasy world ( so completely new places drawn), the first 20 min takes place in a small village. And THAT is based on a real place. 5 CM per second has real places but a lot of the most beautiful scenes aren't based on real places.

Garden of Words was probably his most mature film, and most of it took place in Tokyo/shinjuku. So a lot of it was based on real places.
 
K

Kuro Madoushi

Unconfirmed Member
GMN said:
The battles look good, but i had no problems whatsoever telling that anything was CGI; that honestly just sounds like hyperbole to me. Outside of a few instances i didn't have an issue with the look itself, but the jerky animation with the humans is jarring and weird. It seems to improve as the series goes along at least (or maybe I just got used to it). The mouth animation also looked bizarre at times.

As far as the storytelling goes, the characters are so bland it's almost impressive. You'd think it'd be impossible to get through 12 episodes without establishing more than 2 recognizable character traits (and often only 1), but this show manages to pull it off somehow. I had to tell two of the love interests apart by their haircuts. The plot itself is deeply cliched, but it's pulled off well enough to at least partially hold my interest, and the battles were good.
Click to expand...
This. All the girls looked kind of the same. The character himself is just a big mish mash of clichés as well.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
jett said:
Huh. Did the background artists just paint over photographs then? Not that I'm dismissing the quality of the work, just seems like a queer thing to do for an animated movie.
Click to expand...

Here you go, a break down of how he makes his films. With commentary too! It's a really good read:

A Breakdown of how Makato Shinkai Makes His Films:

http://imgur.com/a/7LC2d

EDIT: Although I don't think it will your answer directly. But it does show how he uses real places (in the bottom) and they aren't 1:1 the same. Just inspirations. So it looks like he doesn't always go for the 1:1.

I also think those shots in that comparison were actually taken by fan and wasn't from the studio. So the film came out, and someone went and took pictures and lined them up. BUT I could be wrong on that one.
 
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