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[foxtrot3d]

Some of her behavior kind of makes sense through a lens of "She was angry that Saul was still sticking to the plan" but not all of it. The plan itself was kind of ridiculous as well, because if Dar had snatched her up, it'd be blown. If the guy on the phone (I forget his name; The surveillance guy) doesn't say "say hi to your mother" the plan is blown. The chances of it working at all were so slim that doing that to Carrie makes no sense.

I can imagine a scenario where she's forced into it because Saul knows about Brody's northern escape and threatens to expose her. He's basically mindfucking her at this point if that's the case. That's not how it seemed though...it seemed like she helped formulate the plan.

I forgot about those parts, yeah it just adds to how stupid the twist is. This is literally like one those "twists" in 24 where their is a mole in CTU or something. Where the actions a character makes before the twist is revealed make no sense once you learn of the twist. And, usually on top of this their entire demeanor and attitude changes once the twist is revealed. Terrible.

Also, I've also made it a policy to skip all Dana/Brody family scenes so I'm just wondering if I missed anything slightly important? I did notice Mike was back.

 

[Quidam]

Not entirely sure the twist works, but it brings the season back from the brink and should lead to some compelling plots.

 

[Reckoner]

how was that "say hi to your mother" a hint?

 

[robertsan21]

I think that it was carries idea from the start. it was a way for her to get back into CIA.

She talked to saul about it, they hatched the plan and of it went.

Thats why saul says to carrie at the end of this ep, that she is such a great agent etc. Carrie is however sad over that fact that saul didnt take her out of the ward earlier.

Oh and DANA MUST DIE! Its just so bad its making me cry.

 

[Blader]

Also, I've also made it a policy to skip all Dana/Brody family scenes so I'm just wondering if I missed anything slightly important? I did notice Mike was back.

In another example of Homeland cribbing from Dexter for some reason, Dana's boyfriend actually isn't a suicide case - he (allegedly) killed his younger brother and his parents had him committed as part of a deal.

 

[Dan]

how was that "say hi to your mother" a hint?

I'm not sure if that was a specific reference to something from earlier in the series, but it was something he would not normally say, so that served as a warning. I can't recall if they've used that previously as a signal.

 

[Angry Fork]

Didn't expect the twist, but I think it makes the show less interesting now. I was prepared for Carrie to go full Brody in her own way and get back at people who wronged her. Then the show could blur the line between what is right/wrong, is treason/patriotism valid concepts etc. like they did in Season 1.

Instead now it's back to season 2 American propaganda, black and white, good guys vs bad etc. Shame.

 

[Niraj]

how was that "say hi to your mother" a hint?

I'm not sure if that was a specific reference to something from earlier in the series, but it was something he would not normally say, so that served as a warning. I can't recall if they've used that previously as a signal.

I thought it was because her mom was dead?

 

[LordCanti]

how was that "say hi to your mother" a hint?

Her mother isn't in her life, so she'd never say hi to her/he'd know not to say that.

Honestly, the guys listening to him talk should have realized it and put his life through the mill once she didn't show up at the agreed upon time.

 

[muddream]

I thought it was because her mom was dead?

We don't know that...maybe she'll make an appearance in a later season akin to Jack Bauer's family

 

[Niraj]

We don't know that...maybe she'll make an appearance in a later season akin to Jack Bauer's family

So...terribly?

I guess I was just assuming. Either way.

 

[LordCanti]

So...terribly?

I guess I was just assuming. Either way.

It seems like I remember her having a conversation with her Dad that involved the Mom having skipped out on the family, but I could be remembering incorrectly.

Her wikipedia page doesn't list a mother, so it's not in the fiction that she had one that died. Not yet anyway.

(Unless Wikipedia is wrong)

 

[Niraj]

It seems like I remember her having a conversation with her Dad that involved the Mom having skipped out on the family, but I could be remembering incorrectly.

Her wikipedia page doesn't list a mother, so it's not in the fiction that she had one that died. Not yet anyway.

(Unless Wikipedia is wrong)

Yeah I honestly can't remember, since I haven't seen season 1 since it first aired and I've repressed most of season 2.

 

[Dan]

I thought it was because her mom was dead?

Oh right, the mom isn't even around.

I think the biggest thing this last episode did was make me not care about the logistics of the plotting. It's hard to make everything we've seen make sense with that twist. It's all really bizarre.

I'm probably along for the ride for the season, but it's so convoluted, I don't even care.

 

[Mononoke]

Would it have worked better if perhaps the original intention was for Saul to leak that Carrie was fucking Brody and not that she was bi-polar? Say Saul just added that himself to make their whole story about Carrie being almost at the breaking point a little more plausible. She didn't expect that to be a part of it, which would explain her shock when she's in her room by herself watching the hearing, and would also explain why she's so pissed at Saul and tells him to fuck off in the mental institution. A betrayal, but one she has to deal with because she knows it's for the betterment of the nation, that sort of thing. Just mentioning the Brody relationship would have been damning enough for Carrie without adding her mental illness to the equation.

I don't think that's what they had in mind, but I feel like that would work a little better? Maybe?

Yeah I think so. Because then those are personal truths that Saul is using to sell the "con" - but those personal truths really sting her, and it feels like a betrayal because she didn't expect the plan to go THAT far. I dunno though, I guess maybe my issue with it is just that I'm not a fan of the whole "gotcha" device in shows. It often feels cheap to me. I mean, if they pull if off really well, and it's very effective, then I'm board with it. But the way I see it, I found this season so far to be really dull. And I think there was a lot more they could have done with Carrie's character had they NOT relied on this. Had they just told us what was going on, and we saw what Carrie was going through as apart of doing her job. The lengths she was willing to go.

But on the one hand, I do think this has really made me look at Saul differently. I'm not sure if that was intentional. But it really makes you question his relationship with Carrie.

 

[LordCanti]

Yeah I think so. Because then those are personal truths that Saul is using to sell the "con" - but those personal truths really sting her, and it feels like a betrayal because she didn't expect the plan to go THAT far. I dunno though, I guess maybe my issue with it is just that I'm not a fan of the whole "gotcha" device in shows. It often feels cheap to me. I mean, if they pull if off really well, and it's very effective, then I'm board with it. But the way I see it, I found this season so far to be really dull. And I think there was a lot more they could have done with Carrie's character had they NOT relied on this. Had they just told us what was going on, and we saw what Carrie was going through as apart of doing her job. The lengths she was willing to go.

But on the one hand, I do think this has really made me look at Saul differently. I'm not sure if that was intentional. But it really makes you question his relationship with Carrie.

I think it would have been a better three weeks of TV if we were in on it for sure. It also would have helped us buy the whole thing once she got out.

 

[WyndhamPrice]

Alex Gansa (showrunner) interview at EW

The Carrie plot was hatched right after the CIA bombing, so everything we've seen so far is according to plan. Only Saul and Carrie are in on it.

 

[Fry]

Alex Gansa (showrunner) interview at EW

The Carrie plot was hatched right after the CIA bombing, so everything we've seen so far is according to plan. Only Saul and Carrie are in on it.

Lame... ish.

 

[Joni]

The biggest parts of the last couple of episodes don't make sense after the 'reveal'. Most of the time they were selling the con when only people that should know about the con are present. I really hate it when shows do it like that.

 

[inm8num2]

Lame... ish.

How is it lame? Carrie returned at the end of season 2 and Saul smiled ear to ear. At that moment we see Saul happy that Carrie will work with him to uncover the truth about the bombing.

It's a "twist" for the viewers but it makes sense.

 

[LordCanti]

How is it lame? Carrie returned at the end of season 2 and Saul smiled ear to ear. At that moment we see Saul happy that Carrie will work with him to uncover the truth about the bombing.

It's a "twist" for the viewers but it makes sense.

I got more of an "I'm happy she's alive but holy shit what has she done with Brody" vibe from that.

 

[Dan]

How is it lame?

It's kind of lame in that we've seen Carrie all alone but still completely and utterly distraught about what's happening to her. If she's been in on it the whole time, that's kind of weird. That's the show making things happen for no diegetic reason, but solely to play with the audience.

 

[Fry]

How is it lame? Carrie returned at the end of season 2 and Saul smiled ear to ear. At that moment we see Saul happy that Carrie will work with him to uncover the truth about the bombing.

It's a "twist" for the viewers but it makes sense.

It's lame because it's like the actors we're playing us. Why would Carrie cry in front of the tv and act in disbelief if she knows he wasn't being truthful?

 

[Joni]

How is it lame? Carrie returned at the end of season 2 and Saul smiled ear to ear. At that moment we see Saul happy that Carrie will work with him to uncover the truth about the bombing.

It's a "twist" for the viewers but it makes sense.

But it doesn't. Most scenes don't make sense once you know the twist. That makes it an awful twist. A good twist means you can rewatch and now get it. Carrie mashing up the mirror doesn't make sense in this twist.

 

[Vman]

It's lame because it's like the actors we're playing us. Why would Carrie cry in front of the tv and act in disbelief if she knows he wasn't being truthful?

"He was clearly the one who leaked the information to the committee about her having an affair with Brody (Damian Lewis) But she was aware that was going to happen. It didn’t diminish the power of it actually happening in front of a national audience. So when she’s reacting to what Saul’s saying, she’s reacting to what it really means, that this is what it feels like. You go back and watch it again. We spent a lot of time with Claire on the set making sure both [ways of viewing the story] were playing."

 

[Persona7]

I'm not sure if that was a specific reference to something from earlier in the series, but it was something he would not normally say, so that served as a warning. I can't recall if they've used that previously as a signal.

I think he was trying to help her because he doesn't know about the plan and thought she was going to be arrested the second they meet.

 

[Quidam]

But it doesn't. Most scenes don't make sense once you know the twist. That makes it an awful twist. A good twist means you can rewatch and now get it. Carrie mashing up the mirror doesn't make sense in this twist.

Like with her crying in front of the TV, I can buy that she would do this when she gets very frustrated at what she's having to go through to make the cover convincing.

The more I think about it, the more it kind of makes sense. Even her getting upset about being denied her freedom today in the hearing makes sense. She suspects the people will come for her eventually, but doesn't know when, so she wants to get out ASAP and just hope they contact her on the outside.

 

[AuthenticM]

I underestimated the writers. I never saw that coming.

Here's hoping the rest of the season will pick up the pace.

 

[StopMakingSense]

She may not have known the exact details of how hard Saul was going fuck her over. There may have been a "Hey, I am going to make things really shit for you, by the way, you need to stop taking your meds." Kind of gels with "Fuck You Saul" and her talk with the doctor last episode "Tell Saul it's over"

Either way, it's a bit clunky, but probably a necessary evil in ordr to get the story where it should be.

 

[inm8num2]

It's lame because it's like the actors we're playing us. Why would Carrie cry in front of the tv and act in disbelief if she knows he wasn't being truthful?

But it doesn't. Most scenes don't make sense once you know the twist. That makes it an awful twist. A good twist means you can rewatch and now get it. Carrie mashing up the mirror doesn't make sense in this twist.

This has already been discussed. Just because Carrie was in on the plan doesn't mean she is over her personal/mental issues. She still has problems. That's why she was upset at Saul when he visited the hospital - she was pissed more about having to be in the hospital and suffer further mental breakdown rather than about Saul outing her issues at the hearing.

edit - let's put it this way: the long con wasn't so much about "Carrie is crazy." People already know that. Carrie wasn't faking any of her reactions or emotions during the past four episodes. The long con was about feigning Carrie's fallout with Saul and the CIA to bait the people behind the bombing into making a move toward her.

 

[Dan]

"He was clearly the one who leaked the information to the committee about her having an affair with Brody (Damian Lewis) But she was aware that was going to happen. It didn’t diminish the power of it actually happening in front of a national audience. So when she’s reacting to what Saul’s saying, she’s reacting to what it really means, that this is what it feels like. You go back and watch it again. We spent a lot of time with Claire on the set making sure both [ways of viewing the story] were playing."

I think this is such a stretch. She was reacting with frustration and disbelief, not "wow, I expected this but it sure hurts to hear out loud." The writers muddied the water so much they can defend everything. They'll just point out that one way or another Carrie was wreck and be done with it, but that feels pretty lazy.

 

[Shadow780]

I hope Dana's boyfriend is successful this time in his suicide pact.

 

[foxtrot3d]

In another example of Homeland cribbing from Dexter for some reason, Dana's boyfriend actually isn't a suicide case - he (allegedly) killed his younger brother and his parents had him committed as part of a deal.

Wait is that true? If so that is hilarious.

 

[Dany]

I'm confused on some of Carries motivation and actions and what was part of the 'plan' and what wasn't.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Alex Gansa (showrunner) interview at EW

The Carrie plot was hatched right after the CIA bombing, so everything we've seen so far is according to plan. Only Saul and Carrie are in on it.

Well that makes absolutely no fucking sense. Again, this reeks of one of those super stupid "24" type twists. As someone else stated, a good twist is one you can go back and realize all the clues leading up to it. The Carrie twist is just a twist for surprise sake, it makes no sense and her character's actions prior to the twist make no sense once we learn the truth.

 

[destrudo]

I hope Dana's boyfriend is successful this time in his suicide pact.

I do too. I've said this before, but why is the Brody family still around? Their storyline felt like it was resolved at the end of the last season. I mean, it could very well tie into everything down the road but right now it feels utterly pointless. I've started fast forwarding through their scenes, and that's something I never do.

 

[muddream]

I do too. I've said this before, but why is the Brody family still around? Their storyline felt like it was resolved at the end of the last season. I mean, it could very well tie into everything down the road but right now it feels utterly pointless. I've started fast forwarding through their scenes, and that's something I never do.

To show that once you decide to become a terrorist your family will be sad. That's some real shit.

 

[brianjones]

i thought that was a pretty satisfying twist

 

[joshcryer]

They got me.

Good to know we can probably skip the Dana scenes. I've been doing that from the start of this season but at least now it's for good reason.

 

[Dany]

To show that once you decide to become a terrorist your family will be sad. That's some real shit.

But the family is boring and I don't care.

 

[joshcryer]

But the family is boring and I don't care.

The family would've been perfect had Brody succeeded. The phone call with Dana. I thought "damn please let them end it that way." But nope.

 

[Blader]

Brody's wife is the worst fucking character on this show. By all accounts, she should be a completely sympathetic and even pitiable woman, but squanders it so effortlessly by just acting horrible in every episode, no matter what happens.

Like with her crying in front of the TV, I can buy that she would do this when she gets very frustrated at what she's having to go through to make the cover convincing.

The more I think about it, the more it kind of makes sense. Even her getting upset about being denied her freedom today in the hearing makes sense. She suspects the people will come for her eventually, but doesn't know when, so she wants to get out ASAP and just hope they contact her on the outside.

In retrospect, the scene that makes the most sense given the twist is when she barges into the diner and launches a bunch of fuck yous at Saul and co. That scene was very strange when it happened, even with Carrie being as upset as he was. Knowing it was just to sell her separation from Saul to the others makes it work, imo.

 

[breakfuss]

Haha, I lie to you not, guys...I may have been done with this show had this whole thing not been a ruse. That would have been outlandish as hell. So, good on them because I didn't see it coming. Still....so many blurrrrred lines.

And, yes, have Dana die already. Something. Disappear. Be gone.

 

[paskowitz]

I just FF through the Dana parts. Really helps.

 

[a secret-boss]

I was ready to write this show off as been Showtimed but that end kinda brought me back

 

[Prompto]

That ending...

So how long were Saul and Carrie planning this? Was it after the bombing before the season started or when Carrie got herself thrown into the mental hospital and when Saul went to see her in there?
Edit: Never mind, I just read that ew interview that explains it.

 

[Dysun]

My favorite episode of Season 3 so far. Was nice to see Mike and the wuss from The Shield back. Dana's stuff was limited, it was dumb but not too aggravating. It's becoming clear that Brody and his family suck the life out of this show for me. Carrie/Saul and the CIA stuff are still pretty engaging

 

[hamchan]

Although I think the twist only partly works and doesn't really gel with a lot of the earlier scenes and Carrie's reactions, I'm at least a little bit happy they've contrived a way for Carrie to start catching terrorists again.

 

[Joni]

This has already been discussed. Just because Carrie was in on the plan doesn't mean she is over her personal/mental issues. She still has problems. That's why she was upset at Saul when he visited the hospital - she was pissed more about having to be in the hospital and suffer further mental breakdown rather than about Saul outing her issues at the hearing.

edit - let's put it this way: the long con wasn't so much about "Carrie is crazy." People already know that. Carrie wasn't faking any of her reactions or emotions during the past four episodes. The long con was about feigning Carrie's fallout with Saul and the CIA to bait the people behind the bombing into making a move toward her.

In that case it simply didn't work to convince me. It is nice people think there is an explanation, but it still isn't convincing when I look at the show.

 

[robertsan21]

Alex Gansa (showrunner) interview at EW

The Carrie plot was hatched right after the CIA bombing, so everything we've seen so far is according to plan. Only Saul and Carrie are in on it.

I was right

Good stuff, however it was sad that we never got any clues to it so we had the chance of actually figuring it out.