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Homeland: Season 3 - |Pledge Allegiance|

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I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
I dunno if the twist makes perfect sense going back, but I sure liked it. It retroactively made Saul's actions make a lot more sense, and now he doesn't have to be a mole for it to be interesting.

Please no more Dana, though. Or Brody. Let that whole family disappear.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
Joni said:
In that case it simply didn't work to convince me. It is nice people think there is an explanation, but it still isn't convincing when I look at the show.
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It's not a matter of being convinced. It is what it is. There's nothing that contradicts or makes the truth about Saul and Carrie working together implausible.
 
J

Joni

Member
inm8num2 said:
It's not a matter of being convinced. It is what it is. There's nothing that contradicts or makes the truth about Saul and Carrie working together implausible.
Click to expand...
It only requires a contrived explanation compared to what they're actually showing: that they're pulling this out of their ass and didn't find a better way to incorporate it.
 
F

Frillen

Member
So if they both were faking it, why the hell did Carrie tell Saul to go fuck himself back in episode 2? They were pretty much alone, so they were faking it to whom exactly!?
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
Frillen said:
So if they both were faking it, why the hell did Carrie tell Saul to go fuck himself back in episode 2? They were pretty much alone, so they were faking it to whom exactly!?
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maybe she was just pissed off because she's back in a mental hospital

the only thing that doesn't really make sense is her getting all bent out of shape when Saul is at that senate meeting (unless he went further than she thought he would or something)
 
Y

You Know Nothing

Member
Frillen said:
So if they both were faking it, why the hell did Carrie tell Saul to go fuck himself back in episode 2? They were pretty much alone, so they were faking it to whom exactly!?
Click to expand...

She was subjected to being drugged and restrained in the mental hospital. I don't think it's unreasonable for her to feel anger and resentment toward Saul for essentially subjecting her to that.

Yeah, it was all part of the plan. But actually going through it would still suck and take its toll.
 
J

jett

D-Member
This Dana shit is unbelievable and unbearable. The actress is either the daughter of a Showtime exec or is doing a Showtime exec.
 
Z

Zeth

Member
Is Dana's boyfriend supposed to be some kind of Dexter spin-off? Are we supposed to fear that he will murder her? He seems like the kind of type-cast actor who looked like a murderer the moment I saw him, so I'm somehow not surprised.
 
B

Blader

Member
Frillen said:
So if they both were faking it, why the hell did Carrie tell Saul to go fuck himself back in episode 2? They were pretty much alone, so they were faking it to whom exactly!?
Click to expand...

She's still being held and drugged in a mental hospital. She obviously resents him for concocting a plan that put her in this position. It's why she broke down at the end of this last ep.
 
V

Vashetti

Banned
The power and control that Saul has over Carrie's mental state really creeped me out with that reveal in the last episode.

Hope they explore it further, it made me reconsider Saul's character.
 
B

belvedere

Junior Butler
Liking S3 more than I expected. Couldn't give a shit less about Dana.

Not sure why, but I loved the tower episode. Something about the setting and pacing seemed interesting to me. Maybe it was just dat Three Dog.
 
I

inm8num2

Member
How hilarious would it be if the producers basically did an episode that mirrors "The Weekend" from season 1 but with Dana and her new bf?
 
E

Electric_ Cthulhu

Member
Yes, the Dana scenes are unnecessary and boring. But the amount and vigor of Dana hate is really ridiculous.

Solid episode. Didn't see the twist coming. Guess I have to watch everything again to see if it really makes sense. I wonder where they go from here.
 
S

SD-Ness

Member
So I need some clarification here...

Carrie and Saul hatched a plot to have her admitted to a mental hospital in order to attract the attention of this firm that represents ostensible terrorists?

If so, okay, I get it.

But I have a feeling the way they present it is a bit too misleading. Do they ever really give us any indication she's faking it in the mental hospital? It all seemed pretty real and raw to me.

Also, the only part that wasn't fake on Carrie's end was the last part when Saul didn't get her out? I'm not sure what she meant by "you shouldn't have left me in there." Wasn't the whole point to have the firm get her out?

Last thing: when she's released why does she attempt to run away, ask Virgil for his car, and try to get money from her bank accounts? If the plan was the to meet with the partner of the firm, all that stuff seems irrelevant. Clearly, she wanted to meet up with Saul. But she didn't have to go through all that to do it...

Thoughts?
 
J

jett

D-Member
The "twist" is not really that big of a twist. Remember this episode when Carrie called her dad and told him to tell Saul she'd do anything? That's when she started working for the CIA again.

Dany M said:
Yay



Woah. Settle down. The actress is fine and its the writers who are deciding to waste our time.
Click to expand...

Well I'm joking, but there really is absolutely no reason this character deserves that much screen time. Or any screen time at all. Hell, the entire family should be jettisoned from the show. It's inexplicable.
 
H

hamchan

Member
SD-Ness said:
So I need some clarification here...

Carrie and Saul hatched a plot to have her admitted to a mental hospital in order to attract the attention of this firm that represents ostensible terrorists?

If so, okay, I get it.

But I have a feeling the way they present it is a bit too misleading. Do they ever really give us any indication she's faking it in the mental hospital? It all seemed pretty real and raw to me.

Also, the only part that wasn't fake on Carrie's end was the last part when Saul didn't get her out? I'm not sure what she meant by "you shouldn't have left me in there." Wasn't the whole point to have the firm get her out?

Last thing: when she's released why does she attempt to run away, ask Virgil for his car, and try to get money from her bank accounts? If the plan was the to meet with the partner of the firm, all that stuff seems irrelevant. Clearly, she wanted to meet up with Saul. But she didn't have to go through all that to do it...

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yep, pretty much no indication that she in it on Saul, which is why the twist isn't very good. I

She also slept with some random guy and stole his money, so that's also a bit weird if she really was in it with Saul from the start.
 
V

Vman

Member
I think the reason Carry was still on the run and trying to get money and such was because Dar Adal and the rest of the CIA were still after her. She had to hide out long enough for the meeting to happen. Only Saul and a tight knit circle are in on the plan with Carry.
 
D

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
You don't need to spoiler tag stuff that's aired

Vman said:
I think the reason Carry was still on the run and trying to get money and such was because Dar Adal and the rest of the CIA were still after her. She had to hide out long enough for the meeting to happen. Only Saul and a tight knit circle are in on the plan with Carry.
Click to expand...

I thought this was obvious.

hamchan said:
Yep, pretty much no indication that she in it on Saul, which is why the twist isn't very good.
Click to expand...

that makes no sense. It only works if you (the viewer) don't know.
 
M

Mudcrab

Member
hamchan said:
Yep, pretty much no indication that she in it on Saul, which is why the twist isn't very good. I

She also slept with some random guy and stole his money, so that's also a bit weird if she really was in it with Saul from the start.
Click to expand...

It isn't that weird. Only Saul and Carrie know. The rest of the agency is in the dark presumably to prevent the mole from exposing it. She has to look desperate at all times because the firm she's trying to expose will follow her everywhere, track her bank accounts, etc.
 
S

Saty

Member
If i understood correctly the showrunner said the plan between Saul and Carrie was struck shortly after the HQ bombing? I can take it if the plan was made off-screen in this season's timeline (and i remember they had private conversations this season) but for the plan to be decided in a period the season doesn't cover at all? Harder to swallow. and you always risk looking like you pulled the twist out of thin air and filling the gap with whatever.
 
E

Emwitus

Member
Cornballer said:
More discussion...

- Tim Goodman @ THR: Twist or Trick: How 'Homeland' Further Damaged Its Reputation
- Willa Paskin @ Slate.com: Finally, Homeland Takes a Twist!
- Sean T Collins for Rolling Stone: The show takes a sharp turn in the right direction as the truth behind Carrie's plight is revealed
- CBS News: "Homeland" star Mandy Patinkin: I broke down after learning of plot twist
Click to expand...

OMG i just noticed that soul was in princess bride. My life is now complete.
 
H

hamchan

Member
D4Danger said:
that makes no sense. It only works if you (the viewer) don't know.
Click to expand...

No, a good twist can leave behind some non-obvious clues so that on rewatch it makes you go "Ah I see", instead of "Why was she acting like this if it was all an act?" like this twist did.
 
F

Future

Member
Had to check this thread to see if people were ready to stab their eyes out every time Dana is onscreen. Goddamit if these are the 24 writers they had the same problem on that show. Crappy b story lines that are so bad it's almost unbelievable

Twist was unexpected. Good twists have moments you can look back on and put the pieces together. This one didnt have that so wasn't that good IMO.

I can believe it though. The breakdown at the end of the episode shows that while she was working with Saul, it took a big toll on her explaining some of the erratic behavior. I can believe that, since Carrie is pretty fucked up, she probably did stop the mess for real, adding to the believable distress.

But goddam at the Dana storyline. Every viewer knew at first glance the boy was crazy, and they were going with the stupid teen so in love can't see it storyline. Wouldn't be so bad if there wasn't so much screen time dedicated to that. Id have rather them fleshed out the tower Brody is in with more interesting storys and only briefly check in on the family
 
jonnyp

jonnyp

Member
jett said:
This Dana shit is unbelievable and unbearable. The actress is either the daughter of a Showtime exec or is doing a Showtime exec.
Click to expand...

Haha yeah, it's terrible but I don't think it's the actress' fault. Just a theory but it does seem a little like they're doing a breaking bad-thing on her or something.
 
D

DerZuhälter

Member
jett said:
This Dana shit is unbelievable and unbearable. The actress is either the daughter of a Showtime exec or is doing a Showtime exec.
Click to expand...

She is a Showtime exec!

tumblr_md78wzbfnf1qedhsqws.gif
 
i_am_ben

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
the actress who plays Dana is still leagues above the mother and other marine guy no one cares about.
 
B

Blader

Member
jett said:
The "twist" is not really that big of a twist. Remember this episode when Carrie called her dad and told him to tell Saul she'd do anything? That's when she started working for the CIA again.
Click to expand...

But the undercover plot has been going on all season, it wasn't something they made up during one of the episodes. Carrie has been in on it since before the premiere.
 
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