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[Opiate]

AFAIK Japan is the country with the highest life expectancy, and it's a country with an obesity rate below 5%. So yeah.

We're talking about overweight people. I don't think you understand the medical definitions of these terms.

Height is also linked to increased mortality, and Japanese people are shorter. Lots of dietary considerations would need to be factored in. Possible environmental or genetic effects need to be considered. You have to control for variables here. Ceteris paribus, overweight people live longer than lean people.

 

[Zoe]

Are we going by the BMI definition of overweight (BMI in the range of 25-29.9)?

If so, I have never heard of that range being beneficial to health unless it's in a person where most of their weight comes from muscle.

I realize BMI is an inherently flawed metric because it fails to account for lean tissue weight vs adipose tissue weight, but I haven't heard of any other "official" measurement of what is considered overweight.




What definition of slightly overweight did those studies use?

BMI:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/health/study-suggests-lower-death-risk-for-the-overweight.html

 

[BobLoblaw]

Good for her. I'll be looking great after having kids also, but that's mostly because I'm a dude.

 

[Demon Ice]

I'd guess that the people who have valid reasons to be in poor physical shape probably didn't think twice about this for the most part. Those who feel deep down that they could be doing more and aren't are those who are most offended.

There is a group of people to whom this picture doesn't apply, but let's not kid ourselves that there aren't a massive number of people who are out of shape due to a choice to be inactive, or that that choice is irresponsible.

This is exactly my thinking as well.

 

[Opiate]

Are we going by the BMI definition of overweight (BMI in the range of 25-29.9)?

If so, I have never heard of that range being beneficial to health unless it's in a person where most of their weight comes from muscle.

I realize BMI is an inherently flawed metric because it fails to account for lean tissue weight vs adipose tissue weight, but I haven't heard of any other "official" measurement of what is considered overweight.

Yes, the medical definition of overweight. If you haven't heard of this, you can't have been keeping up with the medical literature. It's not one study; it's many.

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health...t-obesity-survival-rates/2013/09/19/id/526676

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/study-overweight-obese-live/2013/01/02/id/469749

Longer lifespan isn't the only benefit, however: overweight people are also less likely to contract some infectious diseases (e.g. pneumonia, which can be contracted superficially) and evidence suggests that colorectal cancers are less common in the overweight. This isn't to suggest that we should all get fat, mind you; just that it isn't obvious, from a scientific perspective, that being lean like the girl in the OP is ideal. This sense that her body is "healthy" comes primarily from the fact that we currently consider such bodies attractive, and we subconsciously associate cultural norms of beauty with health.

 

[BocoDragon]

Good for her. I'll be looking great after having kids also, but that's mostly because I'm a dude.

You could put on sympathy pounds.

 

[Count Dookkake]

You could put on sympathy pounds.

AKA "scared to say no" pounds.

 

[Piecake]

AFAIK Japan is the country with the highest life expectancy, and it's a country with an obesity rate below 5%. So yeah.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...ng-tube-without-consent-symbolizes-japan.html

Not sure how much that boosts Japan's life expectancy, but I'd have to imagine it does at least a little bit. So there are other factors at play besides better health

 

[NinjaTehFish]

Omg she's so hot, I cant believe how she can live with herself while constantly ugly shaming those around her, bitch.

 

[Sayter]

Good for her. And I don't believe what she's doing is fat shaming.

In other words: She's hot. I wanna do her. She could grind her stileto heel into my forehead and I would say "Thank you. May I please have another?"

 

[Demon Ice]

BMI:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/health/study-suggests-lower-death-risk-for-the-overweight.html

Thanks for the link. Couple things I noted:

1) The article states that this observation lead them to the conclusion that BMI itself is an imperfect metric, which I agree with.

“We wouldn’t want people to think, ‘Well, I can take a pass and gain more weight,’ ” said Dr. George Blackburn, associate director of Harvard Medical School’s nutrition division.

Rather, he and others said, the report, in The Journal of the American Medical Association, suggests that B.M.I., a ratio of height to weight, should not be the only indicator of healthy weight.

“Body mass index is an imperfect measure of the risk of mortality,” and factors like blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar must be considered

And then later on in the article:

Still, death is not everything. Even if “being overweight doesn’t increase your risk of dying,” Dr. Klein said, it “does increase your risk of having diabetes” or other conditions.

So basically, overweight may not directly contribute to mortality, it does predispose to having issues such as diabetes and heart disease. The main point of the article should not be misinterpreted to say "Being slightly overweight is beneficial." The article itself address that point:

Some experts said fat could be protective in some cases, although that is unproven and debated.

2) The made the point of differentiating between visceral / central fat and peripheral fat, which is a good point that more people should know.

“Fat per se is not as bad as we thought,” said Dr. Kamyar Kalantar-Zadeh, professor of medicine and public health at the University of California, Irvine.

“What is bad is a type of fat that is inside your belly,” he said. “Non-belly fat, underneath your skin in your thigh and your butt area — these are not necessarily bad.”

No argument there.

 

[Bronetta]

I'd smang that milf booty till I got fit myself.

 

[RM8]

We're talking about overweight people. I don't think you understand the medical definitions of these terms.

Height is also linked to increased mortality, and Japanese people are shorter. Lots of dietary considerations would need to be factored in. Possible environmental or genetic effects need to be considered. You have to control for variables here. Ceteris paribus, overweight people live longer than lean people.

I'm checking Wikipedia and Japan's height seems to be in line with plenty of countries that are not exactly known for their longevity, though, so I doubt that's the reason. It might be a combination of factors, I guess, but it's interesting that such a lean population has the highest life expectancy.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Maybe it's time to do something about the persecution complex then. "What's your excuse" is practically a fitness meme at this point. I've seen pics of wheelchair bound athletes, people with prosthetics, etc, doing bench presses and pull ups with that caption get spread all around FB and nobody got offended there.

A quick google of "Whats your excuse" returns the following:

Are those mean and offensive and condescending too?

These people are all doing something. They're showing you that, despite their limitations, they can accomplish these feats, and so can you.

"Hot Mom" posted a picture of herself showing a lot of skin, asking why other young mothers don't have a body like she does. HUGE difference.

 

[SwiftDeath]

The picture is fine

I just don't get why she felt the need to put "What's your excuse?"

Everything but that seems perfectly innocent and reasonable

I mean it's certainly something to be proud of but why do you have to bring other people's potential failures into it?

 

[cdyhybrid]

These people are all doing something. They're showing you that, despite their limitations, they can accomplish these feats, and so can you.

"Hot Mom" posted a picture of herself showing a lot of skin, asking why other young mothers don't have a body like she does. HUGE difference.

She obviously got that body by "doing something" though. And her kids are in the picture as a display of some of the "limitations" she had to face.

 

[Devolution]

The picture is fine

I just don't get why she felt the need to put "What's your excuse?"

Everything but that seems perfectly innocent and reasonable

I mean it's certainly something to be proud of but why do you have to bring other people's potential failures into it?

Because it's not enough for some people to obtain fitness, others have to be shamed and insulted in the process.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

She obviously got that body by "doing something" though.

Then show that picture. The one of doing something. Not the one showing off your unrealistic body expectations.

 

[Shamrock7r]

The "What's your excuse" tag has been used in gym/person training settings for a long time, and is just seen as a good motivational tactic for people to get motivated to to better when it comes to their physical health. I think most people can do more to better themselves physically. If that's not something you care to do, then ignore the photo.

I honestly question the mental strength of anyone who would find this picture incredibly offensive.

 

[Opiate]

Thanks for the link. Couple things I noted:

1) The article states that this observation lead them to the conclusion that BMI itself is an imperfect metric, which I agree with.



And then later on in the article:


So basically, overweight may not directly contribute to mortality, it does predispose to having issues such as diabetes and heart disease. The main point of the article should not be misinterpreted to say "Being slightly overweight is beneficial." The article itself address that point:



2) The made the point of differentiating between visceral / central fat and peripheral fat, which is a good point that more people should know.



No argument there.

Absolutely, BMI is imperfect. It's particularly imperfect when dealing with specific individuals (as in basically useless), but tends to work reasonably well in large aggregate studies (like this one). That's why doctors continue to use it.

And yes, it does seem to be true that "gut fat" is the worst type of fat to have. So not only are we not sure what the ideal/healthiest weight is, we even have to differentiate between different types of fatness; being fat entirely around the gut seems to be considerably worse.

Lastly, it's absolutely true that we don't yet have a consensus on the causal explanation for why overweight people live longer: we can just see that it's true.

I edited this in to my last post, but I'll repeat it since it was probably too late: I am not suggesting that we should all get fat. Just that the scientific consensus doesn't seem to be concluding that the physique of the girl in the OP is necessarily ideal in all regards for health, and that a great deal of our sense of what a "healthy" body looks like comes from social norms of beauty, rather than actual objective evidence. It's very difficult to disassociate what we think of as "hot" from what is empirically good for us, and also difficult for people like me who exercise regularly to accept evidence that perhaps all this work I'm doing isn't as important for my health as I'd like to believe.

 

[Devolution]

The "What's your excuse" tag has been used in gym/person training settings for a long time, and is just seen as a good motivational tactic for people to get motivated to to better when it comes to their physical health. I think most people can do more to better themselves physically. If that's not something you care to do, then ignore the photo.

I honestly question the mental strength of anyone who would find this picture incredibly offensive.

I don't find "what's your excuse" particularly motivating. It just seems like an attack on someone rather than a call to arms.

 

[Demon Ice]

http://www.newsmaxhealth.com/Health...t-obesity-survival-rates/2013/09/19/id/526676

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1555137

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/study-overweight-obese-live/2013/01/02/id/469749

The first link is geared specifically towards people ages 50 and up. I'll try to remember to give the other two a read later tonight if I have time to.

These people are all doing something. They're showing you that, despite their limitations, they can accomplish these feats, and so can you.

"Hot Mom" posted a picture of herself showing a lot of skin, asking why other young mothers don't have a body like she does. HUGE difference.

Her picture never implied that she attained that body without working for it. Neither do any of her quotes in the OP article.

Are you saying if she had posted a pic of her mid-workout at the gym, with her 3 kids there as well, with the same caption, the pic would have not offended people? I'm skeptical.

 

[Opiate]

I'm checking Wikipedia and Japan's height seems to be in line with plenty of countries that are not exactly known for their longevity, though, so I doubt that's the reason. It might be a combination of factors, I guess, but it's interesting that such a lean population has the highest life expectancy.

Right, I wasn't at all trying to suggest it's the only explanation. That's why I listed lots of other things, too. My point was that it's probably a variety of factors, and the only thing to do is to try and control for variables as best possible and see how each variable independently affects health/longevity/vulnerability to disease/whatever you're studying.

And when you control for extraneous variables, we find that overweight people live longer than lean people. To my knowledge, we have not yet reached consensus on the causal explanation for this; we just observe that it's true.

 

[Uncle Ulty]

People are too damn sensitive. The fact that there is an outrage and people are calling her a bully is ridiculous.

.

 

[bengraven]

Are those mean and offensive and condescending too?

 

[cdyhybrid]

Because it's not enough for some people to obtain fitness, others have to be shamed and insulted in the process.

If you don't want to be told to do something, don't visit pages/websites that are going to tell you to do it.

Then show that picture. The one of doing something. Not the one showing off your unrealistic body expectations.

The "doing something" doesn't magically go away if you don't show it. Her posing with her kids is supposed to be more unrealistic than, say, her squatting two plates? If anything, I would think the photo with the kids would be more relatable.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I don't find "what's your excuse" particularly motivating. It just seems like an attack on someone rather than a call to arms.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the term. I just see it as a broad term that might get a person (in particular one that is not pleased with their current physical condition) to look at his/her life and think "am I doing everything I can to get the body I want?". If that applies to you then I think the photo can be extremely motivating. If it's not something that really applies to your current lifestyle then it's not something you should be offended about. It's a photo you ignore because it doesn't really pertain to you.

 

[Devolution]

If you don't want to be told to do something, don't visit pages/websites that are going to tell you to do it.

This doesn't even make sense.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the term. I just see it as a broad term that might get a person (in particular one that is not pleased with their current physical condition) to look at his/her life and think "am I doing everything I can to get the body I want?". If that applies to you then I think the photo can be extremely motivating. If it's not something that really applies to your current lifestyle then it's not something you should be offended about. It's a photo you ignore because it doesn't really pertain to you.

I just find a lot of the attitudes surrounding fitness to be quite toxic to people. As in it's not really assisting people in getting in shape.

 

[Zoe]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the term. I just see it as a broad term that might get a person (in particular one that is not pleased with their current physical condition) to look at his/her life and think "am I doing everything I can to get the body I want?". If that applies to you then I think the photo can be extremely motivating. If it's not something that really applies to your current lifestyle then it's not something you should be offended about. It's a photo you ignore because it doesn't really pertain to you.

What if it does apply to you and you're still offended?

 

[Demon Ice]

Lastly, it's absolutely true that we don't yet have a consensus on the causal explanation for why overweight people live longer: we can just see that it's true.

The NYTimes article posted offered the possible explanation that if a person is overweight, there is a good chance they are visiting their physician more regularly, or their physician is being more alert for possible issues regarding heart / kidneys / diabetes. Thus, even though their weight may predispose them towards developing such issues, those issues are detected and treated early since the physician is actively watching for them to develop.

That had never occurred to me, but it makes sense.

I edited this in to my last post, but I'll repeat it since it was probably too late: I am not suggesting that we should all get fat. Just that the scientific consensus doesn't seem to be concluding that the physique of the girl in the OP is necessarily ideal in all regards for health, and that a great deal of our sense of what a "healthy" body looks like comes from social norms of beauty, rather than actual objective evidence. It's very difficult to disassociate what we think of as "hot" from what is empirically good for us, and also difficult for people like me who exercise regularly to accept evidence that perhaps all this work I'm doing isn't as important for my health as I'd like to believe.

No argument there. It's very clear that the picture that the mom posted was geared towards what is considered attractive vs what is scientifically beneficial. However, I don't think her physique is so extreme as to actually be considered unhealthy, as is sometimes the case with bodybuilders who achieve extremely low, single digit body fat percentages.

 

[SeanR1221]

These people are all doing something. They're showing you that, despite their limitations, they can accomplish these feats, and so can you.

"Hot Mom" posted a picture of herself showing a lot of skin, asking why other young mothers don't have a body like she does. HUGE difference.

Those people have physical limitations so it makes sense seeing them do the actions.

Her limitations are her family. So it makes sense showing them.

 

[Antti]

I'm a skinny male and this is extremely offensive to me.

 

[cdyhybrid]

This doesn't even make sense.

It doesn't? There are a lot of fitness-centric websites or pages that use similar ideas to motivate their readers. If you don't want to be exposed to things that use that tone or language, don't read those websites.

I don't read the blogs of people whose ideologies I disagree with and then get upset that they're disagreeing with me. I just don't read them.

 

[Devolution]

It doesn't? There are a lot of fitness-centric websites or pages that use similar ideas to motivate their readers. If you don't want to be exposed to things that use that tone or language, don't read those websites.

I don't read the blogs of people whose ideologies I disagree with and then get upset that they're disagreeing with me. I just don't read them.

I'm not talking about me mostly, I'm talking about how I see a lot of "people need to get in shape" and the attitudes thrown at these people completely toxic to the whole endeavor of getting them in shape. I'm sure some people like the drill instructor aspect but I'm also pretty sure a lot of people feel alienated by it. Kind of like the OP's "what's your excuse" insertion into the pic.

 

[Shamrock7r]

I just find a lot of the attitudes surrounding fitness to be quite toxic to people. As in it's not really assisting people in getting in shape.

I agree. The gym setting tends to attract a ton of indecent people, depending where you go. I think the important thing to remember though is that people get motivated in different ways, which is why there is such a vast amount of workout videos, routines, and motivational techniques. This picture, which obviously doesn't really mesh with your personality, may be the picture that get's someone to the gym, or keeps them motivated.

What if it does apply to you and you're still offended?

Well that was my point. If it doesn't apply to a person and that person is still somehow offended by this to the point that they lash out at the woman on Facebook, I think that shows some mental weakness, among other things, of the person that is "offended"

 

[Glass Rebel]

Good post. But I think you're still too easily dismissing how the original picture could be taken by those who aren't in the "fitness world." If she didn't want it to be misinterpreted, she shouldn't have posted it to her page.

I'm speaking as someone who has gone through phases of being out of shape and extremely in shape, and I think I "get" both sides. I'm sure I've evangelized for P90X to a certain extent, but I also get annoyed when my parents (who are both fitness freaks) talk about nothing else but their classes and diet and look down on people who struggle with weight (even though they both did earlier in their lives).

Staying in shape and eating well can be tough, but at a certain point excuses are just that--excuses to stay complacent.

The main thing I find distasteful is the utter disdain and lack of empathy many in this thread are showing (whether honestly or facetiously) for those who aren't in shape. It's just unnecessary and unhelpful.

Thanks. I agree that there's a certain animosity against overweight people instead of support but I simply don't think it was the case with her. Sure, it can be taken that way but I find it very unlikely that someone who does this for a living would intend to insult overweight people. Especially not someone with her history of being a bulimic.

Maybe my own experience is clouding my judgement but to me the "smug fitness snob" is a rare mythical creature. It certainly exists as you point out with your parents (no offense) but I can't say that many people who are really into fitness act that way. For example, the morbidly obese guys who showed up at the gym to sweat their asses off and try to turn their life around weren't met with ridicule but with respect and encouragement. Many do know what kind of effort it takes to overcome your fears and actually enter a gym for the first time, especially if you're overweight.

Getting mad at her specifically and calling her names just seems very misguided to me.

 

[Devolution]

I agree. The gym setting tends to attract a ton of indecent people, depending where you go. I think the important thing to remember though is that people get motivated in different ways, which is why there is such a vast amount of workout videos, routines, and motivational techniques. This picture, which obviously doesn't really mesh with your personality, may be the picture that get's someone to the gym, or keeps them motivated.

It doesn't mesh with my sense of not being an asshole about getting in shape, sure.

 

[AstroNut325]

I don't find that offensive at all. In fact I encourage more of it! Unless you have some mental or physical condition that prevents you from working safely... she is absolutely right.

Let the haters hate.

 

[Shamrock7r]

It doesn't mesh with my sense of not being an asshole about getting in shape, sure.

I don't see anything assholeish about it at all.

 

[The One and Done™]

I'm in great shape and though I think the negative reactions are going too far in some cases, they have a point. The way this woman presented herself in this situation says, "I'm better than u and you need to be better". I dunno it really doesn't seem positive.

 

[Ikael]

The fact that she used an agressive tone is unfortunate, but it doesn't make her message any less valid.

 

[DigitalRicket]

See absolutely nothing offensive in her picture or the quote in which she defended herself with at all. I'm 25 pounds overweight and have been working to correct that for years, and I'm finally doing something serious about it now. She's inspirational, not trying to put people down.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I'm not talking about me mostly, I'm talking about how I see a lot of "people need to get in shape" and the attitudes thrown at these people completely toxic to the whole endeavor of getting them in shape. I'm sure some people like the drill instructor aspect but I'm also pretty sure a lot of people feel alienated by it. Kind of like the OP's "what's your excuse" insertion into the pic.

I can see where you're coming from. I guess it just depends on the experiences of the reader and the writer. Some people feel that that sort of tough love is most effective for motivating people.

I think it would be great if we didn't have to "whip people into shape" just to get them to exercise and eat healthy, but it's very easy to slack/cheat when attempting to get into shape (typically sedentary lifestyles, entertainment diversions, easy access to unhealthy food, etc.), so teaching discipline might be necessary in some cases.

 

[Scrabble]

Because it's not enough for some people to obtain fitness, others have to be shamed and insulted in the process.

Sorry but if your the kind of a person that looks at that image and feels ashamed, than why not do something about it? Obviously if your ill or have some other disability than of course there are concessions to be made, but I have a feeling those aren't the people being offended. I really don't even think the intent was to shame anyone but to help motivate people, and it seems it has, why is that something that should be looked down upon?

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

I didn't see it so much as fat/body shaming, but rather lazy shaming.

If you have a legitimate reason for being unable to exercise or achieve an ideal body this shouldn't rustle your jimmies to the point of attacking her online.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I'm in great shape and though I think the negative reactions are going too far in some cases, they have a point. The way this woman presented herself in this situation says, "I'm better than u and you need to be better". I dunno it really doesn't seem positive.

It is fairer to interperet as "I'm in better shape than u despite my obstacles."

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Should make up images with reverse psychology that are the opposite like images of people getting high, drunk, or morbidly obese with the tagline "What's your excuse"

 

[Shamrock7r]

It is fairer to interperet as "I'm in better shape than u despite my obstacles."

I think anyone who interprets it that way is just looking for a reason to be angry.

 

[Devolution]

Sorry but if your the kind of a person that looks at that image and feels ashamed, than why not do something about it? Obviously if your ill or have some other disability than of course there are concessions to be made, but I have a feeling those aren't the people being offended. I really don't even think the intent was to shame anyone but to help motivate people, and it seems it has, why is that something that should be looked down upon?

I don't feel ashamed. I am working out. I find this kind of message haughty and gross. I'd rather people be motivated through positive reinforcement and the idea that they can feel and look great. Not this "look at me, what's your problem anyway" garbage. It's pure ego and not about others.

 

[grumble]

Sorry but if your the kind of a person that looks at that image and feels ashamed, than why not do something about it? Obviously if your ill or have some other disability than of course there are concessions to be made, but I have a feeling those aren't the people being offended. I really don't even think the intent was to shame anyone but to help motivate people, and it seems it has, why is that something that should be looked down upon?

Personally I find it quite motivating. It does get me to reflect on the barriers I have against being in good shape, which are mild compared to era or those who have serious lifestyle limitations and an reminded to take advantage of the privilege of having a healthy body and the opportunity to treat it with respect.