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[TangoAlphaLima]

I'm not sure how this discussion devolved into Fit vs. Fat. The reason many people are upset is because "Hot Mom" is portraying an incredibly idealistic image. She's not just in good shape, she's in phenomenal shape. She'd make 99.9% of women feel inadequate in comparison, but especially for mothers with young children, who may be in shape themselves, but nowhere near the phenomenal shape "Hot Mom" is. That's where this message is lost. It's okay to encourage people to keep fit, but to expect anything close to what "Hot Mom" is portraying is absurd, especially for young mothers.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is uninformed projection. It's not about people needing to fix themselves. It's that they don't need to be told by someone else who doesn't understand them that they need to fix themselves.

Boil down that argument and you've got a situation where no one should ever tell anyone else what they should. I don't believe that way of thinking is really compatible with human society.

I'm not sure how this discussion devolved into Fit vs. Fat. The reason many people are upset is because "Hot Mom" is portraying an incredibly idealistic image. She's not just in good shape, she's in phenomenal shape. She'd make 99.9% of women feel inadequate in comparison, but especially for mothers with young children, who may be in shape themselves, but nowhere near the phenomenal shape "Hot Mom" is. That's where this message is lost. It's okay to encourage people to keep fit, but to expect anything close to what "Hot Mom" is portraying is absurd, especially for young mothers.

I didn't interpret it as her expecting everyone to be just as fit as her.

I took it more as her having achieved becoming phenomenally fit under extremely busy and difficult conditions means that most people really don't have an excuse to be fat at all. Obviously, this message only applies to people who are fat and don't want to be. People who are fat and happy being fat don't need an excuse, because they do not desire to be fit.

 

[Archer]

she's cute. good for her.

 

[FriedConsole]

Makes me want to work out more.

Poor woman getting bullied by overweight people.

Yep. Now that overweight people are the majority it is human nature to bully the minority. It is like that Twilight Zone episode with the pig faces.

 

[Timedog]

The adversarial and self-aggrandizing text is completely unnecessary. That attitude is pretty common amongst people REALLY into fitness from my experience.

 

[Opiate]

As somebody pointed out earlier, eating healthy and putting in just a bit of exercise takes far less effort than anything you listed.

In your opinion. My ex-girlfriend is a Harvard trained lawyer, but she struggled with her weight her entire life.

She quite evidently found professional and academic advancement easy, but found weight control difficult. Put more broadly: things you find simple may be very hard for other people. Things you find incredibly difficult may be a snap for me.

I would never judge somebody, as I used to weigh 300+ pounds and I've walked many miles in those well worn shoes, but literally every obese person I know is on that excuse train and CHOOSES not to get off. Being fat is a choice for the vast majority of people. Which is fine by me, but don't get all twisted up when somebody points that out via an ad like this.

Possibly, but by this standard being uneducated is a choice for most people, too. With just a modicum of effort -- and for free! -- you can go to the library and start educating yourself, or for just a a couple hundred dollars you can start taking community college courses. Most people are handed a free public education and many people squander it with poor grades.

That's half true, IMO. Sure, sugar is addicting. But so is exercise and healthy food. I honestly feel like a run down, sluggish pile of crap when I go for more than a couple days without a run or trip to the gym.

I agree, but I also find that if I study hard for classes I am rewarded with better grades which make me feel more confident and eager to learn. Now that I've built my own charity (this one is actually me and not just a random example) it's a lot easier to keep that charity rolling and growing. It isn't as if this "upward spiral" concept is unique to physical fitness.

 

[KingGondo]

Your 2-3 jobs with kids person is an extreme case and pretty silly to use in an argument. That person has better things to do than write salty facebook comments. My rebuttal was indeed silly.

It's not an extreme case. When I say 2-3 jobs, I'm talking about the many adults who work part time jobs in the service industry at low wages and need to take 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. Not only is the pay low, the benefits are nil and there's very little predictability when it comes to schedule.

There are many people in that situation, and it's only become more prevalent in recent years. It's not a fringe case when you're talking about obesity and poor dietary habits.

Are you seriously doubting that being grotesquely fat has become more acceptable in today's society? C'mon son...and I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the degenerates that write hateful facebook comments in response to that picture.

There's a difference between tolerating people who are morbidly obese (which should be the attitude) and looking down on such people because their weight. It's called empathy.

I notice the same attitude in many threads about entitlement programs, especially food stamps. People love to judge those around them and assume the worst when they have no idea of the situation of that particular person.

The obesity epidemic is indeed complex, that's precisely why I resent when it gets turned into another case of "institutional warfare against the urban poors". It's much more than that..

Nobody is making the argument that there isn't some level of personal responsibility to assign, but that factor is vastly overstated. It's the easy scapegoat, when reality is much more complex.

 

[Dash27]

I'm not sure how this discussion devolved into Fit vs. Fat. The reason many people are upset is because "Hot Mom" is portraying an incredibly idealistic image. She's not just in good shape, she's in phenomenal shape. She'd make 99.9% of women feel inadequate in comparison, but especially for mothers with young children, who may be in shape themselves, but nowhere near the phenomenal shape "Hot Mom" is. That's where this message is lost. It's okay to encourage people to keep fit, but to expect anything close to what "Hot Mom" is portraying is absurd, especially for young mothers.

It's not absurd, it's an ideal. She's something to aspire towards. Instead of saying "I can never be that fit", why not look at her and see she was able to get in great shape with 3 kids and a full time job, so maybe you can be healthier than you currently are with a bit of effort.

I'm not as fit as a lot of men but I'm proud of what I've accomplished. People just like to self pity rather than say they dont want to put in the required effort to get a certain goal.

 

[shoplifter]

Average daily schedule for my wife and I:

5:45am - wake up, shower, eat breakfast
6:45am - wake up kids
7:15am - one kid to sitter, one kid to school, drive to work
8am - 5pm - work
6pm - pick up kids/get home from work, make dinner
6:30pm - eat
7:15pm - help with homework/read with kids/not ignore children
8:15pm - get kids ready for bed
9pm - clean up after dinner, kids
10pm - get ready for bed

Surely I can fit 90m of exercise in there somewhere and not wake up the next morning a zombie. I suspect anyone with two kids and a job has a similar day.

 

[SeanR1221]

As somebody pointed out earlier, eating healthy and putting in just a bit of exercise takes far less effort than anything you listed.

It is one of those things that seems super daunting to somebody who weighs 300+ pounds, but it just takes time. And by "time", I don't mean insane amounts of specialized effort into losing weight. It's eating like a normal person and exercising once in a while.

Once I tweaked my lifestyle to control my portions and go for a handful of runs a week, the weight started coming off. That shit was waaaay easier than a PhD. Like hot mom is implying, it's all about overcoming excuses, whether it's "I deserve this huge and rich meal" or "It's too cold to go for a walk outside".

I would never judge somebody, as I used to weigh 300+ pounds and I've walked many miles in those well worn shoes, but literally every obese person I know is on that excuse train and CHOOSES not to get off. Being fat is a choice for the vast majority of people. Which is fine by me, but don't get all twisted up when somebody points that out via an ad like this.


That's half true, IMO. Sure, sugar is addicting. But so is exercise and healthy food. I honestly feel like a run down, sluggish pile of crap when I go for more than a couple days without a run or trip to the gym.

The key for me was getting addicted to the right things, and not shit like Oreos.

Yup. This is a marathon, not a sprint. I know, I was there.

First picture was 2001. Second picture was 2011. Last is very recently. First I wanted to lose weight. Then I wanted to maintain that weight loss, then I wanted to get bigger and stronger.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Do people really think this is so easy to do?

It's actually easier.

You only need to hit the gym three times a week.
Just gotta make sure you follow a good compound heavy workout and eat reasonably well.

 

[RM8]

The adversarial and self-aggrandizing text is completely unnecessary. That attitude is pretty common amongst people REALLY into fitness from my experience.

It is a thing with some fitness people indeed. I think it happens because well, they're understandably proud of their achievements, because liking what you see in the mirror definitely boosts your ego (same with being told you look good) and because it's hard to argue given the (easy) choice, most people would choose to be fit over fat.

So yeah, it could have been worded less aggressively, but I still don't think it's worth any drama.

 

[Opiate]

I think food addiction is a legit issue strongly related to obesity indeed. Like all addictions, it should be properly treated though, and not defended.

I definitely agree, my purpose is not to suggest that being obese is a good thing, just like being bankrupt or uneducated or poor aren't good things. I think there is a healthy balance here: "These are bad things, but everyone has personal flaws. Let's try to help each other get better."

The picture in the OP has a critical rather than helpful tone. It's the difference between "I see you've never been taught how to responsibly manage your money. Let me see if I can help you learn" and "What is your excuse for being poor?"

 

[studyguy]

I don't see an issue.

Anyone who went through the same problems and ended up being fit as hell and successful would have the same mindset. The anger seems completely unreasonable. This isn't anything different than 90% of the ads you see out there for fitness now.

 

[Shiggie]

Education for a PhD. costs an arm and a leg, eating right and exercising doesn't.

they require education something everyone does not have.

 

[Bazza]

She looks better and more health in the picture on the left.

Na its just the nip effect in the first pic that draws your eye.

 

[Dicer]

Good for her, no need to grandstand about it though...

 

[Cheech]

In your opinion. My ex-girlfriend is a Harvard trained lawyer, but she struggled with her weight her entire life.

She quite evidently found professional and academic advancement easy, but found weight control difficult. Put more broadly: things you find simple may be very hard for other people. Things you find incredibly difficult may be a snap for me.

In her case, was it a matter of priorities though? If she's a lawyer, she's probably very busy, and eating correctly and making time for exercise does take just a bit of commitment.

Regardless, de-prioritizing a healthy lifestyle is just another way of making excuses, IMO. I'm not saying your ex is lazy, clearly she's not, but her time management skills might have needed some help.

My wife has the same struggle, FWIW.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I didn't interpret it as her expecting everyone to be just as fit as her.

I took it more as her having achieved becoming phenomenally fit under extremely busy and difficult conditions means that most people really don't have an excuse to be fat at all. Obviously, this message only applies to people who are fat and don't want to be. People who are fat and happy being fat don't need an excuse, because they do not desire to be fit.

But that's the ideal she set. She chose to take a picture revealing her washboard abs. Like it or not, most women are going to compare themselves to her and feel inadequate, when the majority of them should have no reason to feel inadequate.

 

[diamount]

Average daily schedule for my wife and I:

5:45am - wake up, shower, eat breakfast
6:45am - wake up kids
7:15am - one kid to sitter, one kid to school, drive to work
8am - 5pm - work
6pm - pick up kids/get home from work, make dinner
6:30pm - eat
7:15pm - help with homework/read with kids/not ignore children
8:15pm - get kids ready for bed
9pm - clean up after dinner, kids
10pm - get ready for bed

Surely I can fit 90m of exercise in there somewhere and not wake up the next morning a zombie. I suspect anyone with two kids and a job has a similar day.

7:15pm-8:15pm take a walk with kids? You can socialise and then get exercise.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

It's not absurd, it's an ideal. She's something to aspire towards. Instead of saying "I can never be that fit", why not look at her and see she was able to get in great shape with 3 kids and a full time job, so maybe you can be healthier than you currently are with a bit of effort.

I'm not as fit as a lot of men but I'm proud of what I've accomplished. People just like to self pity rather than say they dont want to put in the required effort to get a certain goal.

I don't think you understand how women work. Most women do not look like "Hot Mom," and most will feel inadequate compared to her. Her ideal is not reasonable and is not something that should be expected from young mothers, yet that's exactly what "Hot Mom" is suggesting.

 

[G.ZZZ]

People frantically typing on a keyboard with rage probably count as exercise. Good job.

 

[shoplifter]

7:15pm-8:15pm take a walk with kids? You can socialise and then get exercise.

when there's no homework, we do something like that.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

7:15pm-8:15pm take a walk with kids? You can socialise and then get exercise.

Yup, that should get you lookin' like "Hot Mom" in no time at all...

 

[RockTurtle]

i can't find the link, but someone made an interesting experiment in their college social network,

Basically he posted as a female making a thread saying "man why are there so many short guys in campus!?" and a bunch of women chimed in saying funny things and agreeing.

he then posted "man why are there so many fat girls on campus?" and the post got vitriol out the wazoo.

does anyone have a link to what i'm talking about?

 

[RM8]

Yup, that should get you lookin' like "Hot Mom" in no time at all...

This is silly. There are different levels of fitness and you should set your goals within the realm of what's possible for you. Being decently fit is possible for most people.

 

[Opiate]

If I were to cohere a central point to my posts in this thread, it would be this:

Everyone has flaws. I don't know you, person reading this, but chances are you don't earn much money, or maybe you are not highly educated, or maybe not physically fit. Maybe you rarely help others or contribute to charity, or maybe you have kids you probably should pay more attention to. Maybe you went bankrupt and, in so doing, cost the rest of us money. Maybe not; maybe you are the .01% who is nigh-perfect.

More likely, though, you have some important flaw that you will struggle with the rest of your life. And yet, there are other people out there who find it very easy to remedy those flaws you struggle with so mightily. That's what I think is important: the ability to recognize that things you find easy may be very difficult for someone else, and vice versa. Maybe you don't struggle with your weight, and that's great. Being overweight is bad. But you probably struggle with something, and you'd probably like us to be understanding, because nobody's perfect, and we're all trying to help each other out.

 

[Zoe]

This is silly. There ate different levels of fitness and you should set your goals within the realm of what's possible for you. Being decently fit is possible for most people.

She claims to be even busier than him and still look like that. So that makes it possible, doesn't it?

 

[J_Macgrady]

This thread for some reason reminds me of:

Bill Hicks on Jim Fixx

 

[LevelNth]

Her photo isn't fat shaming enough.

 

[KingGondo]

If I were to cohere a central point to my posts in this thread, it would be this:

Everyone has flaws. I don't know you, person reading this, but chances are you don't earn much money, or maybe you are not highly educated, or maybe not physically fit. Maybe you rarely help others or contribute to charity, or maybe you have kids you probably should pay more attention to. Maybe you went bankrupt and, in so doing, cost the rest of us money. Maybe not; maybe you are the .01% who is nigh-perfect.

More likely, though, you have some important flaw that you will struggle with the rest of your life. And yet, there are other people out there who find it very easy to remedy the flaws you struggle with so mightily. That's what I think is important: the ability to recognize that things you find easy may be very difficult for someone else, and vice versa. Maybe you don't struggle with your weight, and that's great. Being overweight is bad. But you probably struggle with something, and you'd probably like us to be understanding, because nobody's perfect, and we're all trying to help each other out.

In short: empathy and humility.

I completely agree.

 

[danwarb]

Feel bad because we feel bad and need someone else to blame and can't let harmless things go.

This is not worth the outrage.

 

[diamount]

Yup, that should get you lookin' like "Hot Mom" in no time at all...

No, but it's non-effort exercise that we're meant to be doing.

 

[TxdoHawk]

The adversarial and self-aggrandizing text is completely unnecessary. That attitude is pretty common amongst people REALLY into fitness from my experience.

This sums my feelings up. If the caption was something like "you can do it moms, I believe in you!" it would be fine, but instead it's the usual poisonous attitude that is all too prevalent in the fitness community.

 

[cdyhybrid]

She worked her ass off to get in good shape despite numerous things that made it difficult. I don't see why she shouldn't be proud of that. It's just people's insecurities that see it as an attack on them.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

This is silly. There are different levels of fitness and you should set your goals within the realm of what's possible for you. Being decently fit is possible for most people.

Is that what this picture conveys? "Do what you can to be decently fit"?

 

[muddream]

It's not an extreme case. When I say 2-3 jobs, I'm talking about the many adults who work part time jobs in the service industry at low wages and need to take 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. Not only is the pay low, the benefits are nil and there's very little predictability when it comes to schedule.

There are many people in that situation, and it's only become more prevalent in recent years. It's not a fringe case when you're talking about obesity and poor dietary habits.


There's a difference between tolerating people who are morbidly obese (which should be the attitude) and looking down on such people because their weight. It's called empathy.

I notice the same attitude in many threads about entitlement programs, especially food stamps. People love to judge those around them and assume the worst when they have no idea of the situation of that particular person.


Nobody is making the argument that there isn't some level of personal responsibility to assign, but that factor is vastly overstated. It's the easy scapegoat, when reality is much more complex.

Can you somehow back that up? I've been lead to believe that the unemployed are the fattest, not those who hold multiple jobs at once.

It's not a choice between empathy and hate towards fat people. The fight is between people who consider obesity a serious disease and those that think it's a lifestyle choice like any other. I'm for European-style entitlement programs, but I don't consider obesity an entitlement. Doesn't mean I despise people who are obese, just those who think it's perfectly fine.

I don't believe personal responsibility is the only answer, I think the government should pour more resources into educating people and regulating parts of the food industry more heavily.

 

[RM8]

She claims to be even busier than him and still look like that. So that makes it possible, doesn't it?

Well, it's clearly not impossible for someone without health issues regarding weight loss, and most importantly, with the motivation to achieve that fitness level.

 

[Dash27]

I don't think you understand how women work.

I will definitely concede that point.

Most women do not look like "Hot Mom," and most will feel inadequate compared to her. Her ideal is not reasonable and is not something that should be expected from young mothers, yet that's exactly what "Hot Mom" is suggesting.

Bah humbug. If an average woman ate even moderately well she would look close enough to her that you wouldnt complain. I see women come into our gym all the time and once they a) eat good food and b) go from the little pink weights and walking on a treadmill to actually putting in some work, things change dramatically. Sure getting to her level requires a lot of dedication but you can get most of the way there with a few hours a week and good eating habits.

 

[Alchemy]

It's not absurd, it's an ideal. She's something to aspire towards. Instead of saying "I can never be that fit", why not look at her and see she was able to get in great shape with 3 kids and a full time job, so maybe you can be healthier than you currently are with a bit of effort.

I'm not as fit as a lot of men but I'm proud of what I've accomplished. People just like to self pity rather than say they dont want to put in the required effort to get a certain goal.

Madness. Either you look like Hot Mom or you eat gallons of ice cream for every meal. No in between.

 

[mr2xxx]

While I agree that the wording is harsh for some people to handle, I have no issue with it. Different people respond in different ways to statements like this, some use it as motivation while others might get more depressed. The thing is there are plenty of people that encourage a healthier lifestyle so if you have an issue with her in your face attitude then focus on those others who aren't like that.

In your opinion. My ex-girlfriend is a Harvard trained lawyer, but she struggled with her weight her entire life.

She quite evidently found professional and academic advancement easy, but found weight control difficult. Put more broadly: things you find simple may be very hard for other people. Things you find incredibly difficult may be a snap for me.

Come on man thats anecdotal evidence. Do you honestly think the average person will have an easier time getting in healthier shape vs. being a Harvard trained lawyer? Objectively speaking a higher education with law school requires 6 years with at least 30 hrs a week worth of work. Getting in shape doesn't take that type of commitment for the avg. person*

*Of course there are outliers like in anything else but that doesn't mean that we should act like they are the norm.

 

[RM8]

Is that what this picture conveys? "Do what you can to be decently fit"?

Why not? I don't think it inherently means "you're a failure if you don't look like this". It's basically conveying that, even with responsibilities, you can improve your habits to become a healthier person.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Bah humbug. If an average woman ate even moderately well she would look close enough to her that you wouldnt complain.

I'm not sure what this means. Lots of women eat well and exercise regularly, but look nothing like "Hot Mom." She's a peak physical specimen. No one should try to compare themselves to her.

 

[davepoobond]

She looks better and more health in the picture on the left.

That's because you are conditioned to accept fat people

 

[Dicer]

That's because you are conditioned to accept fat people

She's fat on the left, really?!

 

[JDSN]

That's because you are conditioned to accept fat people

The fuck happened to your icon?

 

[vikki]

Did this woman get what she wanted by posting that pic with that caption? I see a website on that pic, is it one of her businesses? The caption works perfectly. People can get upset and blast the lady for "attacking" other's lifestyles at the same time claiming that it was intended as encouragement.

 

[SeanR1221]

I'm not sure what this means. Lots of women eat well and exercise regularly, but look nothing like "Hot Mom." She's a peak physical specimen. No one should try to compare themselves to her.

He said close not exactly and he's correct.

It just takes time.

 

[waterydave]

You really shouldn't compare yourself to another person.

Just continually try to be the best possible version of yourself.

 

[davepoobond]

She's fat on the left, really?!

Sure.

The fuck happened to your icon?

I became eeeevvvvvviiiillllllll