-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
House of Cards - Season 2 on Netflix - *Spoilers for all of S2*
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
- Status
Then they should, although it might as well be fiction cause it won't happen.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Because there has never been a problem with getting quorum as the filibuster has taken the role that denying quorum would have.
But they have done it in the past pretty much as the show represents it
And Reid threatened it last year and there also were Wisconsin senators who fled to Illinois so they wouldn't be arrested
Yes, but I should clarify. What I mean is it should happen much more often.
Nothing bugs me more than those that stop the vote from happening because they don't like it. Don't even get me started on the current fillibuster rules.
Cornballer
Member
A few recent articles:
- Salon on S2: The petty politics of House of Cards (some spoilers)
- The Guardian: I advised House of Cards on its season two plot (some spoilers)
- Wired: The Internet Is Making It Impossible to Keep Up with House of Cards (some spoilers)
I haven't read through these thoroughly as I'm not quite finished with the season yet, so I'm not sure how spoilery they are. Read at your own risk.
- Salon on S2: The petty politics of House of Cards (some spoilers)
- The Guardian: I advised House of Cards on its season two plot (some spoilers)
- Alyssa Rosenberg: How House of Cards Gets Sexuality And Recovery From Sexual Assault Right (some spoilers)
- Wired: The Internet Is Making It Impossible to Keep Up with House of Cards (some spoilers)
I haven't read through these thoroughly as I'm not quite finished with the season yet, so I'm not sure how spoilery they are. Read at your own risk.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Episode 1
It's mystifying to me that people can't believe he kills people first hand. It's the ONLY WAY he can do it without worrying that someone might leak his involvement.
Well, yeah, I think the only person loyal enough to him where he wouldn't have to worry about that is Doug.
I agree with all of this. I also think the show desperately needs an actor/character for Spacey to really play off of. Other than Robin Wright, there are not any stand-out performances, and the show's main hook of, watch what Frank Underwood destroys next, wore really thin by the end of this season. I felt like every new plot thread the writers tried to explore this year was a failure. The show is still very watchable, because Spacey and Wright are so good, and the production is so well done, but the writing ranged from mediocre to poor this year.
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
EPISODE 1 Spoiler: I can appreciate having a problem with this in a general sense.
But by the killing of Russo - a far more significant public figure - it is surely established that the programme's tone and logic is not entirely realistic. It has a Shakespearian/dramatic edge to it. The defining narrative technique - the soliloquies - is straight from theatre, after all. Not to mention the murder was far sillier in our version of HoC.
It is both the series' strength and its flaws that it is so theatrical (don't forget, Spacey has a long history of involvement in the theatre). It gives it a really scripted feel, very stage managed and structured. This aids the machiavellian scheming but also makes it very unsatisfying in the long run. It really lacks antagonism. The press in particular is wasted, being largely servile (realistic, but boring) besides annoying individuals. It feels like you are watching Spacey plus lesser actors.
It is both the series' strength and its flaws that it is so theatrical (don't forget, Spacey has a long history of involvement in the theatre). It gives it a really scripted feel, very stage managed and structured. This aids the machiavellian scheming but also makes it very unsatisfying in the long run. It really lacks antagonism. The press in particular is wasted, being largely servile (realistic, but boring) besides annoying individuals. It feels like you are watching Spacey plus lesser actors.
SEASON SPOILERS:
I quite enjoyed how this season the writers were as ruthless as Underwood by getting rid of the shitty characters like the reporters (replaced with the far more likeable and competent Ayla). Shame about the lack of Christina.
teruterubozu
Member
Finished 5 episodes so far. I agree with posters above saying that there is something missing this season. Love Spacey but they need another actor with just as much presence to spice it up more.
Actually, that part was the most reality based of the entire show.
If they (the creators) pick a setting which is realistic and with which most people are familiar, it's really not strange that viewers get a lot of dissonant feedback from their brain when the events don't line up with that setting. A lot of that is just basic research and commitment to the show, like how elsewhere in this thread people don't like nonsense hacker plots or using Chinese-American actors for Chinese characters.
Furthermore, it's hard to understand what's left when you make a show about politics that doesn't reflect politics. Without characters and a world who react to these events in understandable ways, or logical reasons for basically anything, all you're basically doing is watching a bunch of random shit happen, because, ambition, or something.
UnluckyKate
Member
War Peaceman
You're a big guy.
General spoilers about the series start to finish.
People complaining about the Underwoods always being victorious must remember this is only the second act of a bigger narrative. They have clearly reached their most hubristic point.
Their rise has seen the destruction/removal/disapproval of more principled people. Their staff is unreliable - Stamper replaced with that creepy nose guy, Remy's back, Meachum is dangerous. Senior ministers cannot trust them - Linda was disagreeable but solid, the Secretary of State Durant has seen his evil side, Jackie has been compromised, Tusk is displeased. It is hard to think of someone that supports the Underwoods out of genuine belief or loyalty. He isn't even popular with the public. Their constant preying on the weak leaves them with only the survivors. Their fall is coming.
That does not mean complaints about how unsatisfying their constant success is, but it is important to consider the bigger picture.
Their rise has seen the destruction/removal/disapproval of more principled people. Their staff is unreliable - Stamper replaced with that creepy nose guy, Remy's back, Meachum is dangerous. Senior ministers cannot trust them - Linda was disagreeable but solid, the Secretary of State Durant has seen his evil side, Jackie has been compromised, Tusk is displeased. It is hard to think of someone that supports the Underwoods out of genuine belief or loyalty. He isn't even popular with the public. Their constant preying on the weak leaves them with only the survivors. Their fall is coming.
That does not mean complaints about how unsatisfying their constant success is, but it is important to consider the bigger picture.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I feel like Molly Parker and Gerald McRaney delivered that a thousand fold this season. Phenomenal work from both of them.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The liberal dude would be a wild card. I can see Frank trying to trap him there as depending on the senate's composition it could prevent the Dems who don't like him from organizing against him.
This just simply isn't true. The whole purpose of the China storyline is to pit Frank against Tusk. It was clear from the end of last season that such a conflict was going to be inevitable. Again, you can bemoan the fact that the politics are unrealistic, but nothing being done on the show is purely random.
But this is a big problem at times because the show leans heavily on political solutions to dramatic problems. The part that really stuck out to me was the passing of big entitlement cuts incorporating a bunch of Republican asks with no Republican votes. This was portrayed as Frank pulling off an unexpected move which passed a bill that would be politically valuable to him, but this is nonsense. The bill was valuable because it was bipartisan - I'm pretty sure the show was explicit on that point. It was heavily modified to satisfy Tea Party objections. In the end the Democrats rammed through a thoroughly Republican bill, in the face of very dramatic Republican objections, which will clearly prove to be incredibly unpopular. It's laughable that some time after that they think they still have any chance in the mid-terms.
Politics is used as a magic wand to resolve dramatic problems, even when it makes no sense.
Politics is used as a magic wand to resolve dramatic problems, even when it makes no sense.
I don't see how the bill was that unbelievable. It was bipartisan because it had to be to pull enough republicans over to the democratic side. Prior to the GOP leadership walking out they had an overt conversation about the fact that Underwood had turned a growing number of the R's in the room to his side, flipping the majority in his favor. Sure, he bought their votes with future favors like he always does but there was only a price tag attached to their votes because it was a bipartisan bill they can run on.
Hence why at the end the senate majority leader went along with the dog and pony show. Also, upping retirement age in exchange for actually handcuffing and dragging senators into the chamber is probably a six of one, half dozen of another when you talk public outcry. Pushing retirement out three years in five years time is something many moderates would actually support today, and where are the people further left than those moderates going to run to? When veiled in the "assuring entitlements for decades to come" argument it actually has appeal, and it was done by Frank whipping what the show portraits as a do nothing senate.
I think the big sticking point a lot of people have had with S2 is that it is very much told from the perspective of Frank and Claire, but without completely pulling back the curtain to expose that they've been cultivating all these seeds the entire time. Why did China become a big issue? Because Frank made it one when he intentionally started rocking the boat with Feng, all to pressure Tusk. Same with how he handled the PAC investigation. Frank's entire strategy from day 1 of getting in the White House was to basically chum shark filled waters under the premise that he's the best swimmer with the most fight in him. He and Claire had a clear motivation all along to this point - infiltrate the POTUS' inner circle, pick off his most trusted allies one by one until he was isolated, then exert pressure on him until he broke and stepped aside for Frank. They do this by planting dozens of seeds and cultivating any that sprout towards a beneficial conclusion for them.
Maybe people wouldn't feel like the majority political issues weren't just springboards if the season had a broader focus instead of being 90% on Frank and Claire. Season 1 was more balanced in that regard, I'll definitely give it that, and the inclusion of Zoe and her reporter's cadre gave the events a bit more gravitas.
Hence why at the end the senate majority leader went along with the dog and pony show. Also, upping retirement age in exchange for actually handcuffing and dragging senators into the chamber is probably a six of one, half dozen of another when you talk public outcry. Pushing retirement out three years in five years time is something many moderates would actually support today, and where are the people further left than those moderates going to run to? When veiled in the "assuring entitlements for decades to come" argument it actually has appeal, and it was done by Frank whipping what the show portraits as a do nothing senate.
I think the big sticking point a lot of people have had with S2 is that it is very much told from the perspective of Frank and Claire, but without completely pulling back the curtain to expose that they've been cultivating all these seeds the entire time. Why did China become a big issue? Because Frank made it one when he intentionally started rocking the boat with Feng, all to pressure Tusk. Same with how he handled the PAC investigation. Frank's entire strategy from day 1 of getting in the White House was to basically chum shark filled waters under the premise that he's the best swimmer with the most fight in him. He and Claire had a clear motivation all along to this point - infiltrate the POTUS' inner circle, pick off his most trusted allies one by one until he was isolated, then exert pressure on him until he broke and stepped aside for Frank. They do this by planting dozens of seeds and cultivating any that sprout towards a beneficial conclusion for them.
Maybe people wouldn't feel like the majority political issues weren't just springboards if the season had a broader focus instead of being 90% on Frank and Claire. Season 1 was more balanced in that regard, I'll definitely give it that, and the inclusion of Zoe and her reporter's cadre gave the events a bit more gravitas.
I doubt it.
She clearly sided with Walker and was unwilling to capitulate when Frank had her cornered, which he has no use for. Also, she's never won a political office and would therefore be viewed as entirely unacceptable by the nation at large. I could see Frank trying to tee up a congressional/senate seat for her because she'd be a powerful ally to bring through the ranks but distant enough to not be a threat, but not VP.
I'd bet Blythe for a few reasons. 1. He's not the least bit of a threat. 2. He's a straight up pander to the extreme liberals, both in the house/senate and in the general public. Blythe is always his sticking point on bipartisan/right leaning legislation. Bringing him in opens the door there. Blythe would likely initially want to refuse, but at the end of S2 you could see him finally developing a taste for the political game and the power of being VP would be too much to resist for someone who wants to push through progressive legislation.
Assuming the show goes on long enough though, in two years Frank will be running for re-election and that means a new running mate. I'd bet Womack or Sharp then.
I'd bet Blythe for a few reasons. 1. He's not the least bit of a threat. 2. He's a straight up pander to the extreme liberals, both in the house/senate and in the general public. Blythe is always his sticking point on bipartisan/right leaning legislation. Bringing him in opens the door there. Blythe would likely initially want to refuse, but at the end of S2 you could see him finally developing a taste for the political game and the power of being VP would be too much to resist for someone who wants to push through progressive legislation.
Assuming the show goes on long enough though, in two years Frank will be running for re-election and that means a new running mate. I'd bet Womack or Sharp then.
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
just finished season 2 and i loved it. there were points where i said oh come on man you can't fucking fall for that! but overall it was really enjoyable. kevin spacey is masterful in everything he does and this was no exception. underwood is a shady backstabbing motherfucker and no one could pull it off like spacey does here. kinda bummed about
can't wait for season 3!
zoe dying off so early but oh well!
Does it get better towards the end? Because I'm halfway through the season and my interest in the series is rapidly declining. It's... just there. I love watching Spacey and all but apart from his role I'm starting to feel more and more indifferent towards what's happening, bored even.
It seems that the show is a bit divisive. Personally I can't see why as I thought it was completely great, lol, but if you're not into it then that's OK, I guess it just isn't for you. Nothing dramatically changes as the series progresses.
I feel this way too. I'm drifting off while watching it.
Fattony12000
Member
FrenchMovieTheme
Member
uhhhhh yeah, i would say it gets better but if you were bored in the first half i can't really say it gets so much better that your socks will be knocked off. this ain't no true detective!
This happened to me as well and I just started skimming the later episodes. The Tusk stuff just got repetitive for me.
Davis_McGee
Member
This stems from the show's roots as a British drama. Our political parties are muuuch closer to one another, there's no separation between executive and legislature and the power of the Whip is near to absolute. So quickly flipping a bill that you're privately opposed to and forcing it through it for the public plaudits is not only viable, but common practice. That's why there's often a bit of a disconnect between Frank's Machiavellian scheming in the political sections and the realities of American politics - the character and his supposed powers don't translate perfectly. In reality the supposed absolute power of the whip would be split between a variety of committee chairs and caucus heads. Unfortunately that doesn't sit well with this kind of drama. The West Wing this is not.
Cornballer
Member
Orbis Tabula
Member
How similar is the original British series to the current American one in terms of events and characters? Would I be sort of spoiling US Season 3 if I watched every season of the British show? Further, would I as an American with little to no understanding of British politics be able to follow it?
It is a strong possibility.
Davis_McGee
Member
I'll spoiler this in case anyone has seen the british version but not the american version or just doesn't want any hints whatsoever either way. It's probably easier to just watch the original - it's only four eps.
The key events of the British version have all been in the American version. If you read through the wiki synopsis you'll actually be able to match it up scene for scene, and I think this is where some of the negative reports on S2 have come from. S1 was effectively a remake of the british version, but only 2 events (you'll know which ones - first and last ep) from the british version are in S2 of the American version - the rest is pretty much new. At the end of the day the original is only four hours long. S3 is completely uncharted territory.
I've finished the season. I'm not sure if I like it more than season 1 or not. Like others have said, I missed having some more human, character building episodes season 1 had (there were moments of it here, but not really whole episodes). On the other hand, I thought the main political scheming with Frank/Claire was even more exciting than first season because of the higher stakes working in the White House.
Also, I wanted to say that Claire's actress was fucking fantastic this season. I was consistently blown away. I thought she was good in season 1 as well, but she kills it in a lot of scenes this season. I enjoy watching her and all of her scheming and plots as much as Frank this season. And Jackie is my favorite new character.
Also, I wanted to say that Claire's actress was fucking fantastic this season. I was consistently blown away. I thought she was good in season 1 as well, but she kills it in a lot of scenes this season. I enjoy watching her and all of her scheming and plots as much as Frank this season. And Jackie is my favorite new character.
Prince of Space
Banned
Agreed. Don't get the complaints about the Underwoods not having any worthy adversaries; I thought both Tusk and Sharpe were more than up to the challenge.
Well each season is only four episodes long. There are three seasons, I think that this version will end the same way that the thrid season of the UK one ended.
S3 Spoilers of UK House of Cards
With Francis's assassination
Can we please spoiler tag stuff from the BBC show accordingly? Just started watching it :/
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Just finished. Thought the
storylines were fucking awful. Just a total bore. Other than that though, I thought the season was on par with the first - pretty good but not great (outside of a few moments here and there).
I laughed when I realized that (Ep 10)
hacker and Rachel
He's bi thankyouverymuch -__-
Episode 8:Hooray for bisexuality!
Hooray! >:O
I laughed when I realized that (Ep 10)
the threesome probably played out in the exact same way as the threeway porn video Frank was watching.
Yeah, this should be done especially considering this show mirrors some of the same plot twists in the BBC show.
You'll probably get spoiled. So far the American version has hit the same notes as the British version. I think you'd be safe watching the first two series but avoid the third unless you want possible spoilers
The American version is different enough to keep you interested, but you'll recognize where it's headed if you watch the British version first. It's like listening to 'Mad World' by Tears For Fears and then listening to the Donnie Darko version of the same song.
I just finished watching the new season and it is good.
The Last scene when he looks at the camera and does his signature knock the presidential desk was epic.
The scene where frank, his wife and their body guard (forgot his name) started to make out was crazy
Im sure the death of stamper will cause a shit storm for Frank. I bet next season their will be an assassination attempt on him.
Cornballer
Member
Yes, if people could label BBC show spoilers as such, that would be much appreciated. I added a quick note to the post you quoted.
My apologies, I will separate out UK show from the US version and spoiler tag each. I had no idea how to add spoiler tags inside a spoiler tag.
Vermillion
Banned
I love this show so much.
End Spoilers:
End Spoilers:
President Underwood, goddamn. I guess he's the center of the frame now.
Episode 9
Yeah, of course I talked about how much I enjoyed the Frank/Freddy relationship a couple of episodes ago, only for the show to take it away now. Freaking Tusk man. Anyway, I really enjoyed the focus on Freddy in this episode and I feel really bad for him at the end of this episode though.
Well, I guess the Adam storyline from season 1 actually did serve some purpose in this show, but I'm glad that they wrapped it up now. Claire scared me when she was talking about how she'd bury him otherwise.
I loved the scene of Doug with his Diet Coke while Frank and the press secretary were drinking beers. This show has a sense of humor sometimes that's not immediately apparent.
Well, I guess the Adam storyline from season 1 actually did serve some purpose in this show, but I'm glad that they wrapped it up now. Claire scared me when she was talking about how she'd bury him otherwise.
I loved the scene of Doug with his Diet Coke while Frank and the press secretary were drinking beers. This show has a sense of humor sometimes that's not immediately apparent.
- Status