-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
How many teraflops do we need for excellent graphics?
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Depends on which dev team we are talking.
Some are wizards with current power levels and some not so much
Some are wizards with current power levels and some not so much
Parazels
Member
With full path tracing?
Parazels
Member
You are right, but I'm talking about comfortable conditions, when a developer has enough power for 4k@60 + full path tracing without tricks and miracles.
Last edited:
SolidQ
Member
Come in 2035+
Guardian Monkey
Member
1.21 PFLOPS!?!
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the PS5 pro isn't powerful enough to do 4k60 with full path tracing.
Seider
Member
You didnt get the point. What im saying is that you always can add more polygons, more effects, better textures and make a game that will not run 4K 60 fps with Pathtracing even if you have 500 Tflops.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
At least 69 tiddyflops for accurate jiggle physics.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
you need talent not TFLOPS
e.g , compare remedy vs sony first party studios
it is obvious who is better at optimization
e.g , compare remedy vs sony first party studios
it is obvious who is better at optimization
elbourreau
Member
IAmRei
Member
Without tricks and miracles? It will took years from now, since even with tf like today, devs still need tricks to save power.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Saying Tflops doesn’t matter is the same as saying horsepower in a car engine is not relevant.. of course a powerful engine alone don’t take you very far but if the rest os the car (suspension, weight, transmission, etc..) is well calibrated the car with the most powerful engine will always have the advantage.
With computer graphics is exactly the same thing.. the most powerful GPU will always win in a identical setup..
Dismissing Tflops is such a weird thing to do..
With computer graphics is exactly the same thing.. the most powerful GPU will always win in a identical setup..
Dismissing Tflops is such a weird thing to do..
vaibhavpisal
Member
Game design also affects that.
Something like Monster Hunter that has ecosystem running in background cannot be compared to something thats processing just the stuff player is seeing.
vaibhavpisal
Member
$200 million *cough* vs $35 million *cough**cough*. Still made arguably better game with 1/5 budget.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Are we seriously still doing this?
For the kids in the back: TERAFLOPS ARE A USED TO DETERMINE PEAK COMPUTING SPEED EQUAL TO ONE TRILLION FLOATING-POINT OPs PER SECOND! Now, tell me what that means? Well, this is one of the reasons you rarely see this as a major selling point among the PC brethren when it comes to new cards and/or CPUs. No one says "the 3080 was a 29 teraflop (FP32) card! Look at how much more power we're getting with an 82 teraflop (FP32) card in the RTX 4090". In my eyes, I prefer this — "there are 76.3B transistors on the 4090 vs 28.3B on the 3080. This will allow better calculations, so raytracing (water reflections as a big one), fur, hair movements, and smoke billows will behave far more realistically with the higher count on the device). There's 24GB of faster RAM (G6X) on the 4090 vs just 10 on the 3080 of G6, which will result in smoother game operation and the ability to render more on screen. Then there is a near 1000MHz boost advantage on the 4090! Over 2x the Tensor Core count.....etc". You get where I am going. All of those things are much more meaningful than just "zoooomg, look at the teraflops.....a theoretical nummmbeeeeerrr"! All you can deduce is there is an increase, but little else. Yes, it gives you a grand total and usually means one card is better than the other, but it rarely tells the full story and that's why it shouldn't be the lead spec to discuss.
For the sake of consoles, does that 16.7 teraflop number on the Pro's card (remember, the rest of the machine hasn't even been measured in this number) tell you how much better it is than the 10.2 teraflop number of the OG PS5's graphics card? No. It's just a higher number. Whereas everything else, like the addition of two extra gigs of DDR5 system RAM, the higher texture rate of 672 vs 321.6 in the PS5 (a rather large increase), pixel rate increase to 179.2 vs 142.9 in the 5, etc, etc, all give a better look at just what's been improved here. More RAM, faster graphics clock speed of 2800MHZ vs 2233 in the 5, and shading rate (cores) of a near 1500 count jump on the Pro!
That's how you should gauge these things.
For the kids in the back: TERAFLOPS ARE A USED TO DETERMINE PEAK COMPUTING SPEED EQUAL TO ONE TRILLION FLOATING-POINT OPs PER SECOND! Now, tell me what that means? Well, this is one of the reasons you rarely see this as a major selling point among the PC brethren when it comes to new cards and/or CPUs. No one says "the 3080 was a 29 teraflop (FP32) card! Look at how much more power we're getting with an 82 teraflop (FP32) card in the RTX 4090". In my eyes, I prefer this — "there are 76.3B transistors on the 4090 vs 28.3B on the 3080. This will allow better calculations, so raytracing (water reflections as a big one), fur, hair movements, and smoke billows will behave far more realistically with the higher count on the device). There's 24GB of faster RAM (G6X) on the 4090 vs just 10 on the 3080 of G6, which will result in smoother game operation and the ability to render more on screen. Then there is a near 1000MHz boost advantage on the 4090! Over 2x the Tensor Core count.....etc". You get where I am going. All of those things are much more meaningful than just "zoooomg, look at the teraflops.....a theoretical nummmbeeeeerrr"! All you can deduce is there is an increase, but little else. Yes, it gives you a grand total and usually means one card is better than the other, but it rarely tells the full story and that's why it shouldn't be the lead spec to discuss.
For the sake of consoles, does that 16.7 teraflop number on the Pro's card (remember, the rest of the machine hasn't even been measured in this number) tell you how much better it is than the 10.2 teraflop number of the OG PS5's graphics card? No. It's just a higher number. Whereas everything else, like the addition of two extra gigs of DDR5 system RAM, the higher texture rate of 672 vs 321.6 in the PS5 (a rather large increase), pixel rate increase to 179.2 vs 142.9 in the 5, etc, etc, all give a better look at just what's been improved here. More RAM, faster graphics clock speed of 2800MHZ vs 2233 in the 5, and shading rate (cores) of a near 1500 count jump on the Pro!
That's how you should gauge these things.
Last edited:
mansoor1980
Gold Member
you talking about firewalk studio ? that dont exist anymore
and congrats to the 35 mill project breaking even after ONE YEAR
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Native 4K60 with full path tracing.......bwhahaha!
Alot.
Alot alot.
Alot alot alot.
And alot alot of (V)RAM
A 4090 can barely hold 30 in game with simple geometry like Portal with Full PT.
Alan Wake with PT (not even full PT its also using alot of cheats) is just about playable on a 4090.
Enemies isnt even using PT its just regular Raytracing and runs at 20fps on a 4090.
Alot.
Alot alot.
Alot alot alot.
And alot alot of (V)RAM
A 4090 can barely hold 30 in game with simple geometry like Portal with Full PT.
Alan Wake with PT (not even full PT its also using alot of cheats) is just about playable on a 4090.
Enemies isnt even using PT its just regular Raytracing and runs at 20fps on a 4090.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Cmon dude.
You know all Sony projects, even 20 hrs SP titles are 200 usd. I was comparing those to Control. Which released on 3 systems, pro patches etc.
Current gen Sony projects are in $300 million + range ( Spiderman 2).
Horseganador
Member
It depends on the developer, ND or Rockstar take a machine with less than 2 Tflops and get wonders like RDR2 or TLOU2, others wouldn't even do something similar with 200 Tflops.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
isnt the thread about TFLOPS and not budget.......
most sony big budget games are successful like spider man 2 and now we have astro bot which was pretty light on budget
in any case the brute force non-optimised approach sucks .
peace
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
And most Sony games don't cost $300 million either. Pretty silly to even use that when the $300 million game has already made that back, while Alan Wake 2, as much as I love it, has just scratched even.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
few, a 4tf machine does not display 4tf graphics.
for example Hellblade 2 runs at 1920x840 on the Series S this means the same game could run at a lower resolution and 20fps. This means that HB2 only requires 2tf, the rest is just for resolution and fps.
HB is the most advanced game in the current gen.
for example Hellblade 2 runs at 1920x840 on the Series S this means the same game could run at a lower resolution and 20fps. This means that HB2 only requires 2tf, the rest is just for resolution and fps.
HB is the most advanced game in the current gen.
mansoor1980
Gold Member
agree on the point about budget
and TFLOPS wise im not just talking about sony games either
look at hellblade 2 or forza horizon 5 on xbox , extremely well optimised games , both published by MGS
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Doubtful. The game is hardly doing anything. Very few enemies on screen at any given time, a static (albeit, very good looking) environment, linear, and a few character models to have to worry about doesn't really feel like "the most advanced game". I wouldn't even call it the best looking game, but that's entirely subjective.
Last edited:
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
We are already there. Devs need to get better.
tkscz
Member
TFLOPs are officially the new bits I swear. Bandwidth, RAM amount/speed, clock speeds, and transistor count are far more important than TFLOPs. Also graphics are excellent depending on how a dev makes the game look. To me art style is everything.
LordOcidax
Member
Looks like the OP doesn’t understand how technology works… Devs are always going to push to the limits not matter how many teraflops hardware makers give to them. Also, bigger numbers is a hell of a marketing tool. Is not matter on how many TF the hardware have.
HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Finally someone who gets it!
Last edited:
Parazels
Member
You are right, but what if I want Little Nightmares 3 at 4k@60 + full PT?
What kind of a console do I need to get these graphics?
Last edited:
panda-zebra
Member
I think this sums up the answer to your question, OP:
It's a neverending race so no matter what looks good to you today it's going to look outdated tomorrow once you see stuff that look & run better.
midnightAI
Member
At least part of one
