Trogdor1123
Gold Member
How many subscribers do they have? No idea what to guess. The trailer looks good though in my mind. I want to see it. I’ll subscribe once it’s all there and I’ll watch for a month
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How many viewers will TLOU premiere with on HBO
- Thread starter Mibu no ookami
- Start date
Swift_Star
Banned
That theory doesn't hold any water. A few cringe lunatics on twitter do not speak for the whole fanbase. The sales number speaks for itself.
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Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Even after all these years there are still plenty of fully grown men still crying for their virtual daddy Joel
Swift_Star
Banned
Gamer_By_Proxy
Member
I look forward to it and have no idea when it premieres. Who has time to keep track of premieres when you can watch it whenever afterwards?
Vick
Gold Member
Even after all these years there are still plenty of fully grown men still crying for their virtual daddy Joel
I don't envy at all the state people who actually and genuinely thought Abby was a great character must be in.Abby was justified and Joel was a piece of shit.
Honestly even afraid to mentally picture them and their lives, going by what I saw of the character's fanbase on Twitter.
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Madflavor
Member
She had every right to hate him, but beating him slowly to death with a golf club and leaving his surrogate daughter alive after she witnessed her killing him was a chimp brain move, and got most of her friends killed.
Abby was an authority on the matter of the lengths a daughter would go to avenge her father’s murder. Joel shot her dad, but Abby beat Joel’s head into hamburger meat while Ellie begged for his life. Was Abby justified in hating and wanting to kill Joel? Yeah probably. But she handled it in the worst way possible.
In all honesty, Abby is kind of a fucking idiot.
Swift_Star
Banned
Never said she did it the best way possible. But she was justified and it is what it is.
Joel had it coming, he committed mass murder to satisfy his selfish ego.
I couldn't care less for him.
I hated him since the ending of the first game.
And honeslty, leaving Ellie alive just proves it further how well written she was. Why would she kill Ellie? She had no fault over Joel's actions.
And all in all, the whole reason why Ellie went on a murdering vendetta was because she felt guilty for treating Joel like shit and never being able to apologize.
The reason she lets go at the end is because she finally realizes this.
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Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
Honestly kind of hilarious to me that I just now realized that Pedro Pascal is going to get his head crushed on a 2nd HBO show lol.
Madflavor
Member
I think you're confusing the word ego with something else. Ego is a person sense of self esteem or importance. That's not why Joel stopped the Fireflies from cutting up Ellie.
I was on the fence about Joel's action during the ending of Part 1. Now that I'm a father, I completely understand why he did what he did.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
Why is Ellie(and the Fireflies) let off the hook in all this? She was clingy the whole time with Joel, despite his initial resistance, till he saw her as a daughter. Of course he'll be coming to her defence when people are going to kill her.
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Swift_Star
Banned
You being able to understand doesn't make it right.
He committed mass murder. It doesn't matter it was in order to save his child. He still murdered a lot of people who also had families.
So, Abby was justified. It's simply the truth.
Party McHardy
Member
Post apocalyptic with a stupid budget? Hell yeah I’ll watch in some kind of pirated form.
Madflavor
Member
I didn't say it wasn't justified, nor did I say it makes it right. I'm just saying I understand why he did it.
Vick
Gold Member
From my experience, and I've had alot since the game came out, it's virtually impossible to get something out these discussions.
People who failed to understand/empathize with Joel actions in The Last of Us, are either just biologically built differently, or way too young to grasp subtle and meaningful concepts.
Which makes their Druckmann cocksucking all the more hilarious considering he's the one who always sadistically killed every single doctor at the end of every playthroug of Part I, a game made for his daughter.
Because that was the point of it, entirely missed by all those "I hated Joel and his selfish decision" who literally failed at the game.
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Madflavor
Member
The ending of Part 1 is not meant to be viewed as Black or White. It was masterfully crafted as a very gray choice on Joel's part. It was a horrible but understandable act he committed. Joel isn't a bad person, or is he good. He's simply human.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I bet It’ll be good, but it’s hitting that odd parallel universe feeling for me.
Vick
Gold Member
Exactly. And so is Ellie, and a player displaying human characteristics would naturally grown attached to them during the course of the masterfully crafted experience to the point he might (must, actually) share Joel decision -in the perfect smashing of the ludonarrative dissonance so important to the studio at the time due to the Uncharted (retarded) criticism- because we embarked on the journey with him since we started playing as his daughter.
People empathizing with Abby, during the course of her infinitely less effective/masterfully crafted campaign, but not Joel, are people I am not able to understand.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
While I think the hospital events were intended as a moral grey area by the writer, certain details(Fireflies were terrorists who were putting Joel's life in jeopardy and had shown 0 proof of making Ellie's death meaningful in curing the world) in the game undermine that intention IMO.
I think they were going for something similar as Rosemary's Baby's ending where despite the baby being Satan's, the mother will still lovingly take care for it even though it will probably lead to the suffering of others in the future.
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CuteFaceJay
Member
they would be better off bankrolling a show based on the division or would that be too soon?
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Thought last of us was the best Sony exclusive, gaming movies are making a rebound all of the sudden Mario and last of us are getting their time on the big screen HBO will position the show for success.
Vick
Gold Member
Not even that.
Just look at the cutscene with Marlene and his hostile firefly guy escorting Joel, listen to the fucking music, the camera angles.. everything in it is meant to pump the fuck up out of the player (and boi, was it effective).
And same with the moment you take Ellie out of the hospital, listen to the damn music and way the sequence is constructed, there's nothing "grey area" at all in it, it's a cathartic moment only.
You only start questioning what you did (what you gladly did) and consequences of your actions later, when the game puts you in Ellie shoes in the Epilogue.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Proof they were going to make a cure/vaccine was in the documents. They didn't need to write a scenario in an attempt to convince Joel because he wouldn't change his opinion. That's what you call useless dialog/writing.
And Terrorists? Every argument you make just shows you don't have a good understanding of this story. lol
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
That's an interesting take that Neil Druckmann is pro-Joel too rather than letting players make their own interpretation which side was right at the hospital(though I think he failed a bit with the latter when considering all the facts).
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
They don't state they would be able to make enough to save millions. It's easy to say that you'll save millions, but with no facts to back it up it doesn't come across as believable.
The wiki states they have terrorist cells and did terrorist attacks and Owen said they blew up checkpoints. I know one's terrorist is another one's freedom fighter but their tactics did include those of terrorists.
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Thebonehead
Gold Member
That would be PaRappa the Rapper.
In all seriousness, Abby was simply an awful character for me though and I hated the playtime through with her. It became a right drag before the end
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
Indiana Jones trailer has 8M views in 3 days. This is a known IP that never had a flop movie...even the 4th one.
Unknown tv show The Last of Us first season and after less than 2 days has exactly 8.1M views.
I'd say either TLOU's numbers are amazing or Indiana Jones should be canceled before release.
I seem to be the only one who empathizes with Abby, Joel and Ellie. They are all people who are both the hero and the villain depending on where you stand. I don't know how well that kind of moral ambiguity plays on a mainstream level outside of gaming but I think it was brilliantly done.
I think it will do very well and it seems to have buzz outside of gaming plus as much as people want to deny it TLOU2 did well and has a huge fanbase. Sure it was polarizing but any artist worth their salt is polarizing at least one in their career,
I think it will do very well and it seems to have buzz outside of gaming plus as much as people want to deny it TLOU2 did well and has a huge fanbase. Sure it was polarizing but any artist worth their salt is polarizing at least one in their career,
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
That's like saying the virus in Resident Evil 1 wouldn't be a huge threat outside of the mansion because there's no proof. The cure plot is self-explanatory. If you have a cure, then it could cure millions. It's basic logic. Yeah, have them show proof it would cure millions when it hasn't been made yet. Again, terrible argument.
They were labeled as terrorists by the Military/FEDRA. They tried to rule over quarantine zones throughout America and were faced with opposition.
Maybe it should give you a hint as to why they were defeated in TLOU 2. They also weren't portrayed as heroes in TLOU 1 as they were the main opposing force in the game next to the stragglers and David's crew.
The only thing that's shown in TLOU is that they were fighting with the Fireflies. The documents from TLOU showed that the Fireflies were losing the war and were retreating.
Thebonehead
Gold Member
Harrison Ford is 80, hobbling around with walking sticks and a Zimmer frame, in an uninspired action flick though.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
And those numbers are not great either.
"Unknown" lol.
At this rate TLoU is a more relevant IP that indiana jones.
TLOU numbers are not great
Indiana Jones old ass franchise that has lost relevancy.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
Bro, come on, throughout the RE games there's plenty of proof how destructive the virus is in towns/cities. A working cure in TLOU has yet to be shown. If a future TLOU game expands on how the Fireflies could've cured the world if it weren't for Joel then that would retroactively make the Fireflies look better in TLOU1 but as it stands now it's questionable at best.
When you blow up buildings, capture and torture people then it's no surprise you'll be labelled a terrorist. I'm not saying FEDRA is a force for good either BTW.
I agree the Fireflies are not the good guys despite their noble intentions, that's why I don't really see much wrong with what Joel had to do to get Ellie out of there.
If the fireflies are terrorists then many people in history including the founding fathers of America are. This is a world where society has completely collapsed and what is left of civilization is controlled by a miltary dictatorship no different than Russia or North Korea where you can get put down just because they feel like it. If a group started fighting back in those countries most people would support so why are the fireflies wrong for fighting back against repression. The fact that like most revolutionaries they had no real plan to govern and things turned into a violent free for all like Pittsburg is another story.
OuterLimits
Member
It's been years since I played the first game but didn't the plot essentially transition from western PA to Joel and Ellie getting close to their final destination far to the West?
That leaves a ton of openings for the writers of the show to greatly expand on the plot if they wish. I assume it wasn't smooth traveling across numerous states.
That leaves a ton of openings for the writers of the show to greatly expand on the plot if they wish. I assume it wasn't smooth traveling across numerous states.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
There's proof that Ellie is immune and I also specifically mentioned RE1. We didn't need to know that it would have been a bigger threat because it's common sense based on the story that was told.
They blew up buildings because they were at war with FEDRA. You can't even quote anything from the game and that shows how weak your argument is.
Many critics such as yourself do this because you want to believe there's no doubt that Joel made he right decision and any other decision would result in nothing.
You can't throw your own person theories into a debate because people actually follow the story of the game.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
Ellie's immunity not the same as a vaccine existing, one was never made so far. Why should the lore of the other RE games be ignored at this point? But even if we do, we see people turned into zombies and other vile mutations, it's not hard to imagine that on a bigger scale like a town or city and what catastrophe that would be.
I consider the wiki a good source and even they say they have terrorist cells and carried out terrorist attacks. I doubt the wiki are pro FEDRA and anti-Fireflies.
But even if the Fireflies don't qualify as terrorists in your view, I don't see how that changes anything for their clown show at the hospital, just replace terrorists with thugs.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
That's not how it works in storytelling. We don't need to see how dangerous the virus is because.....ITS a virus. We don't need to know a cure would work on millions because ITS a cure.
We're not talking about RE games because we're talking about the viewpoint of gamers playing the first RE game. You're the type of person who would have been saying, "Uh, this virus wouldn't be a threat. The government would stop it and you have survivors who would believe their story."
The fact of the matter is, They were going to make a cure and Joel stopped them and they were going to bring a cure to mankind. People bringing their fan theories as to why it might not be possible are people in denial.
They are terrorist attacks based on FEDRA's point of view. That's it. Spinning the narrative won't make you right.
Swift_Star
Banned
I also understand why he did it. And I despise him! I guess that’s what they were going for, honestly. I remember playing the game at the time and refusing to do what the game wanted me to.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
The Last of Us as a franchise is not more known to the general public than Indiana Jones...something everyone knows about. Come on now.
TLOU's numbers for the trailer are better than House of the Dragon after 2 days. It's already half of their overall trailer views. I don't know what else to tell you
ChorizoPicozo
Member
The last Indiana jones movie came out 2008 14 years ago.
TLOU 2013 9 years ago.
Then you have the ideal demographics where indiana is appealing to old ass folks while TLoU is closer to teens and the diverse crown...which is the popular stuff.
After a controversial last season.TLOU's numbers for the trailer are better than House of the Dragon after 2 days. It's already half of their overall trailer views. I don't know what else to tell you
The last of us should be 15+ million views at this point.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
Just stating there's a solution is not good story telling, especially one on a large scale as saving millions, the writer will have to put in some work in how that solution can be realistically achieved with the means available. (Show don't just tell > Just tell don't show). At best TLOU has theorized a vaccine can be made with the sacrifice of Ellie. That's still a far cry from being able to save millions of lives.
Part of the RE universe is Umbrella which has enormous resources to develop and deploy the virus so I'm not sure where you're getting where I'd think that the government could stop any and all virus outbreaks. I didn't start with RE1 on PSX, my first RE was the remake on GameCube so I was spoiled on the fact that the virus would break out in other areas.
I judge by what's in the game and there's nothing that shows the Fireflies could believably start curing the world.
I don't have bone in the fight who're the worse terrorists, FEDRA or the Fireflies(probably FEDRA with all their resources), they're both bad in my view.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
You can't PROVE a cure works because it requires Ellie to die. You also said they should explain to Joel how it should work. That would make NO sense because Joel wouldn't be convinced otherwise. In storytelling, you want to avoid useless dialog because the audience should be able to figure it out for themselves. If the cure was useless or many nothing, then that would have been stated in the game. It would also be bumb to say there was a small chance because the moral ambiguity of the ending would be totally one-sided.
People who use the term "Bad storytelling" don't know anything about storytelling because you're talking about things that make no sense at all.
If the writers didn't put any doubt about the cure, then they didn't intent to make the audience believe it wouldn't work.
If you can't show me anything from the game where it says it, then you have no groud to stand on.
We didn't know the first game and based on your logic, we should have been told.
Now you're moving the goalpost.
"In my view"
You tried to use the wiki to tell me that they were terrorists.
And this goes along with my point. You're going off based on your false theories and now the story of the actual game.
You fail to use any dialog or information from the game to back up your claim. You only talked about a wiki page that you misinterpreted. You're not going to provide anything other than theories that are not backed up with facts so I have no reason to keep debating with you on this topic. lol
It'll get whatever is considered a crap load.
It's a tentpole show for both Sony and HBO, with massive budget, it will have increasing levels of hype and marketing over the coming month, just the official trailer is at over 8mil in 24hrs, never mind all the other places the trailer's been redistributed. It has a lot of star power. Between its more mass market appeal, and Pedro Pascal, I expect it will outperform the cyber punk anime on Netflix in its opening week by a fair stretch, and that was considered a huge success driving 15million hours of viewership in opening week; subsequently driving the highest number of concurrent players of the game since the game released. I would expect a similar subsequent boost to the game, and prime people ready for the release of Factions 2.
How well will the series perform after its launch week? that'll come more down to if its any good. They'd have to try pretty hard for it to be shit tho IMO.
All that said, ive no idea if either HBO or Sony will release numbers, its on Sky/NowTv in the uk, don't know if they have trackable numbers either...netflix is one of the more transparent of the streaming companies.
It's a tentpole show for both Sony and HBO, with massive budget, it will have increasing levels of hype and marketing over the coming month, just the official trailer is at over 8mil in 24hrs, never mind all the other places the trailer's been redistributed. It has a lot of star power. Between its more mass market appeal, and Pedro Pascal, I expect it will outperform the cyber punk anime on Netflix in its opening week by a fair stretch, and that was considered a huge success driving 15million hours of viewership in opening week; subsequently driving the highest number of concurrent players of the game since the game released. I would expect a similar subsequent boost to the game, and prime people ready for the release of Factions 2.
How well will the series perform after its launch week? that'll come more down to if its any good. They'd have to try pretty hard for it to be shit tho IMO.
All that said, ive no idea if either HBO or Sony will release numbers, its on Sky/NowTv in the uk, don't know if they have trackable numbers either...netflix is one of the more transparent of the streaming companies.
Ulysses 31
Gold Member
Now you're moving goalposts by switching to what Joel thinks about the cure. We were talking about if the cure could exist in the TLOU universe, not what Joel thinks about that. The Fireflies could have unrealistic expectations about making a cure and saving the world and that could show in their documentation. The writer doesn't have to spoon feed what the truth of the matter is.
The game doesn't seem interested in exploring how realistically the Fireflies could've started curing the world, that's a writers choice. A consequence of that is that the Fireflies' position in the story looks (a lot) weaker when it comes to deciding Ellie's fate.
Weird way to state it. If the game only says the Fireflies could save the world, I find that unconvincing. Druckmann saying it would happen is unconvincing too. It's not in the game so why would I take it into consideration? It doesn't seem like good writing practices if outside sources are needed to explain important plot points. You couldn't judge the movie/story on it's own anymore.
Delving into "what ifs" is treading fan-fic territory.
That's a temporary situation because the lore got expanded.
I'm not going to ignore official lore just to prove/disprove a point(other than pointing out inconsistencies perhaps), that's silly.
It's a moot point who're the bigger terrorists. Don't change the bad things the Fireflies did at the hospital as either thugs or terrorists.
