ThatStupidLion
Member
Do you prefer a a piece of media to "give the fans what they want" or be the original vision the creator has, while only maintaining the lore/fundamentals necessary to the brand?
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How much do you value "fan service"?
- Thread starter ThatStupidLion
- Start date
triplestation
Member
the problem with fan service today is you know it's coming
WHAT KIND OF SHIT IS THAT
IT'S LIKE SOMEONE TELLS YOU THEY'RE THROWING YOU A SURPRISE BIRTHDAY PARTY
this fucking hollywood
i'm DYING here
WHAT KIND OF SHIT IS THAT
IT'S LIKE SOMEONE TELLS YOU THEY'RE THROWING YOU A SURPRISE BIRTHDAY PARTY
this fucking hollywood
i'm DYING here
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Only boobies. The fan service/pandering in the latest Star Wars movies was almost insultingly bad
teezzy
Banned
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of "fan service", but any artist who creates something, without keeping their intended audience in mind, isn't worth a squirt of piss as far as I'm concerned.
I'm so over self indulgent drivel at this point in my life. If you make your art for you, that's fine, but dont get upset when others find it rubbish.
Artists should feel blessed to have a fanbase whatsoever, and do what they can to please them. It's a business.
I'm so over self indulgent drivel at this point in my life. If you make your art for you, that's fine, but dont get upset when others find it rubbish.
Artists should feel blessed to have a fanbase whatsoever, and do what they can to please them. It's a business.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
JareBear: Remastered
Banned
Depends on how well it's executed
Lionel Richie
Member
Grab that tiddy Shinji
Halo is Back
Member
There is plenty of room in the world for both. Its also not wrong for a straight male (or lesbian) to enjoy some nice female beauty in our media. Ellie and Sadie are some my fav female characters in gaming and so are 2B and Lara Croft.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.001
Fan service isn't worth it in fact it hurts it, if crushing the 1% of your fans hurts it than so be it.
Whitesnake
Banned
T&A fanservice is always welcome.
Dont care for it at all. So many anime suffer tonally thanks in part to needlessly injected fan service.
Then again I can't stand how Shinji is wittten, his mannerism and overly emotional temperament comes off more like a female than a male character.
Looking back on this as an adult, tropes like this are so lame. It's the beta male trope and it makes me cringe so hard.
Grab that tiddy Shinji
Then again I can't stand how Shinji is wittten, his mannerism and overly emotional temperament comes off more like a female than a male character.
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mickaus
Member
I think in modern Hollywood movies fan service is just weird. I've seen a couple of recent movies recently where there was one scene where a woman undressed for no reason and then there was nothing else in the rest of the movie. I would prefer it if they just had normal nice looking women in a movie/game that acts feminine. Why is so much culture either super sexual anime or women who act and look like aggressive men? Bring back the 90s women who were good looking and cool, or even women like Audrey Hepburn who didn't have to have sex in every movie to be seen as feminine.
mcz117chief
Member
I love fan service. All the callbacks, references, easter eggs etc. but they have to be subtle, make sense or be relevant enough to be front and center. Stuff like passing an important character from the previous season in the crowd or see it at a restaurant and such is amazing since it doesn't interfere with the flow and just adds a little nod to the fans. Another example would be if some character said something along the lines of "man, once the war is over, I'll open a bakery and make the best goddamn bread in the country." and in the next show from the same world you can spot a bakery with the aforementioned character's name written on its hanging shop sign in the background in a shot or two.
Halo is Back
Member
Lol thats why everyone hates Shinji
GreyHorace
Member
If we're not talking about boobies, then yeah fanservice is perfectly fine. The problem is that nowadays people behind the media we consume seem hell bent on what I call 'fan disservice'. They want to destroy core elements of the franchise that fans have come to love in favor of pushing a progressive agenda. You see it with properties like Star Wars, Star Trek, Doctor Who, Marvel comics, DC comics and many others. It's sickening, so I don't bother patronizing these people with my hard earned money. Other fans should follow suit, and send the message that we don't like it when you show blatant disrespect for us.
mcz117chief
Member
Still, there are worse characters by a landslide, like Natsuki Subaru from Re-Zero. The show was ok but the main character is just so far beyond retarded, it's quite astonishing really.
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Halo is Back
Member
I still love EVA though great anime. I don't like Shinji but his internal struggle is compelling. How would you feel if your dad never cared about you and only asked you to see him just so he can be used for combat. His father can give two shits about him and expects him to save the world in a giant ass robot without no formal training. Anyone in his shoes would be fucked up, the problem with his character is he didn't grow that much only up until the end.
mcz117chief
Member
Yeah, Shinji is fine, I never had an issue with him. His psychotic dad though...
SentientStone
Member
A little from column A, a little from column B.
Narrative experience has to be good first and foremost.
Narrative experience has to be good first and foremost.
Lionel Richie
Member
I think Shinji is a perfectly written teenager, we're just used to media portraying children and adolescents as adults.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
imo it's basically a meaningless term at this point. it's a cudgel used to justify writers letting their egos control the project.
if you are working on a project with a pre-installed fanbase, you have a duty to that fanbase. otherwise, just work on something original. the worst is when people who can't think of anything original end up slumming in a franchise and use it as a personal mouthpiece. they want all the good that comes from a fandom while giving nothing back. too many selfish creators these days.
ideally, if you are working on a longterm project, you would do well to respect the storytelling foundations laid down. people invest time and energy into these things, sometimes over decades, and to just reject that unthinkingly in order to embrace some deconstructionist bullshit is lame as fuck.
too many stories are "Meta" these days. we have too many self important writers who are afraid of their egos losing out. we would have better stories if everyone just quit trying to outsmart the audience and focused on telling a satisfactory story instead.
if you are working on a project with a pre-installed fanbase, you have a duty to that fanbase. otherwise, just work on something original. the worst is when people who can't think of anything original end up slumming in a franchise and use it as a personal mouthpiece. they want all the good that comes from a fandom while giving nothing back. too many selfish creators these days.
ideally, if you are working on a longterm project, you would do well to respect the storytelling foundations laid down. people invest time and energy into these things, sometimes over decades, and to just reject that unthinkingly in order to embrace some deconstructionist bullshit is lame as fuck.
too many stories are "Meta" these days. we have too many self important writers who are afraid of their egos losing out. we would have better stories if everyone just quit trying to outsmart the audience and focused on telling a satisfactory story instead.
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Well I disagree. I'm not used to that, I don't think he's a perfectly written male teenager at all.
Maybe it's a cultural difference between male teenagers in Japan versus those in the west. Neither my general adolescent experience or that of some of my friends were like that.
If anything Toji and Kensuke served as better examples of male teens than Shinji. This isn't to say there aren't male teen like Shinji, but the way he's written would make him more an outlier imo.
Lionel Richie
Member
Kensuke is such a secondary character that I can't form a judgment either way, but Toji is written like an adult which is justified by him not having a central emotional conflict that drives him. That's the thing with Shinji, rejection is his central theme way more than the angels. And he deals with that exactly like 99% of the teenagers would, by lashing out in impotent anger and generally behaving like a dipshit. Any story that features a teenager being cool, calm and collected when faced with any emotional conflict is poorly done. Take Ellie from TLOU being more mature than Joel throughout most of the story. How the fuck does that make any sense? Then again, Druckmann IS a hack and I shouldn't even hint at a comparison with living legend Anno.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
If you don't like a little jiggle/panty shot, and the occasional beach/hotspring side story episode, stay out of my hobbies please, normie.
The Scrivener
Member
Metallica should've just quit after their Black Album?
All artists need to grow and forget about a fan base. What about art when the artist in question has been dead 100 years, where's the fan base then?
Fan service is mostly lame referencing and mainly serves a buying market, not an artistic audience.
(I chose option 2 on the list, so I'm open to discussion.)
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
imo a big part of this is, these are intellectual properties purchased by a company and then given to new creators to do with what they wish. this is VERY different from if the original creator kept making the art. the people making Star Wars movies are not the people who invented the franchise. ditto for Star Trek, Dr. Who, Marvel comics, etc.
it's different from, say, Metallica, who is always comprised of the same band members, to create something new and still call it "Metallica". yes if they release a bad new record then people will complain but they will still consider it Metallica. what if every member was different and the only thing that was the same was the name? thus the equivalent for most franchises would be if Metallica sold the rights to their name and all their old songs to some company, and that company found 4 new musicians, had them record and album, and said "Now you guys are Metallica". the only thing that makes them "Metallica" at that point is a legal technicality. they really have nothing to do with the original creators. nobody would buy it with music, it's kind of silly how they buy it with movies, tvs, etc.
ironically, at that point, the new "creators" are just as much fans as their audience. so you end up with people saying "Oh i've been a fan of Spider-Man my whole life" whereas the actual creators of Spider-Man wrote all those stories without that fandom at all. so whenever i see a creator say they are "big fans" of what they are working on, i realize it means nothing, and probably their story will suck, and they will be too self conscious about it all.
so what we have nowadays is fans ("creators") telling other fans (audience) what they should or should not like. i would argue that mostly, it's all fan service. it's just that the people at the top have branded themselves as gatekeeping superfans. but they are just fans in the end. if the writer is doing it to make themselves happy, they are giving themselves fan service. i mean these movie writers did not invent Captain America and Spider-Man, some old dudes from the '60s did that. it's like playing with somebody else's toys.
i do think if you are a public artist who wants to make a living, then yes, you have to appease an audience. sure, you can be in it for art's sake alone, but you need to ignore the audience completely in that case. for most popular work, meant for a popular audience, often in the millions, no, get the fuck over yourself, it's time to make some people happy. that's your job.
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GreyHorace
Member
This is I think is the core of the problem. No one wants to put in the work to make a piece of art that'll spread the 'message' these artists intend. No, they have to take an existing popular piece of media and shove in all their political baggage in it just to strike a chord with the intended audience. Nevermind if the general audience hates what they do, they're all just a bunch of racist nazi homophobes anyway!
I hope the Covid-19 crisis wakes these people up as to how fragile their livelihood is. People want to be entertained, not lectured to.
Paracelsus
Member
Bad, because of what he said
Look at Rogue One. Bland, boring forgettable plot and characters, overrated because it's tons and tons of superficial fanservice.
It allows you to thrive off fans of superficial elements of what made a franchise memorable, and milk it until it's destroyed.
Look at Rogue One. Bland, boring forgettable plot and characters, overrated because it's tons and tons of superficial fanservice.
It allows you to thrive off fans of superficial elements of what made a franchise memorable, and milk it until it's destroyed.
A lot of creators don't know when to call it quits. Knowing when to say no more is a mark of good judgement. Just look at MGS4 and the way it tied up all the loose ends soap opera style. It's like people can't be comfortable with mystery and leaving things unresolved. Everything has to be explained.
Perhaps it's a side effect of living in the information age.
Perhaps it's a side effect of living in the information age.
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Super Mario
Banned
I could care less about reviews and opinions anymore. Everything is terrible. Everything is going to be criticized. If it has too much fan service. If it has no fan service. It will be torn apart. A brand comes with expectations. It's like having Batman without him wearing a bat suit.
And as for boobies, yes please. There is a big lack of big, naturals being used. It's usually small or fake. Don't get me wrong, I'm still most pleased at that point. But give me my fan service.
And as for boobies, yes please. There is a big lack of big, naturals being used. It's usually small or fake. Don't get me wrong, I'm still most pleased at that point. But give me my fan service.
Listen I used to think the same like wtf is wrong with this dude why is he such a wuss.
But one day I understood what the character themes were and it all kinda made sense. Overall though I think he is a so-so character. Could've been way better by being just a tad bit more subtle with it.
SirTerry-T
Member
I wouldn't call him a wuss per se, he's just written overly emotional to the point of being obnoxious. The dynamic between Shinji and Gendo felt like cheap drama for the most part. That's my issue with NGE as a whole, the lack of subtlety. Then again it is part of the giant mech genre, so maybe I had misplaced my expectations.
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DunDunDunpachi
Banned
If I had the choice, I prefer entertainment to be a cohesive vision from the author / team / developer / studio. I prefer a self-contained world full of secrets and implications and lore. This is better than a world packed with fanservice, pop-culture references, and 4th-wall breaking material. And then there are those very rare games that can teeter on the edge between fanservice and canon, like Breath of the Wild or Read Dead Redemption 2.
Stuff that falls into the former category would be Gene Wolfe books (like the New Sun franchise) or FROM Software games (like Bloodborne). These have intricate worlds for the viewer to pick apart and re-experience, peeling back layer after layer during repeated reads/replays. It's kind of hard to pack these sort of games with so-called "fanservice" because it can break the immersive intent of the fiction.
Stuff that falls into the latter category would be Deadpool movies, Guacamelee, Senran Kagura, ZeroRanger, Wreck it Ralph Breaks the Internet, and Undertale. Part of their appeal is the pop-culture knowledge and self-referential jokes that the viewer gets to point out while they engage with the media, like a live-action Where's Waldo.
Both types of entertainment can warrant multiple replays/rewatches, it just depends on what you're into.
Stuff that falls into the former category would be Gene Wolfe books (like the New Sun franchise) or FROM Software games (like Bloodborne). These have intricate worlds for the viewer to pick apart and re-experience, peeling back layer after layer during repeated reads/replays. It's kind of hard to pack these sort of games with so-called "fanservice" because it can break the immersive intent of the fiction.
Stuff that falls into the latter category would be Deadpool movies, Guacamelee, Senran Kagura, ZeroRanger, Wreck it Ralph Breaks the Internet, and Undertale. Part of their appeal is the pop-culture knowledge and self-referential jokes that the viewer gets to point out while they engage with the media, like a live-action Where's Waldo.
Both types of entertainment can warrant multiple replays/rewatches, it just depends on what you're into.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It's really telling that anime nerds adopted a generic term like "fan service" for when an anime shows ass and tits.
Especially since the vast majority of anime are about ~12-16 year olds.
Especially since the vast majority of anime are about ~12-16 year olds.
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