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HTC Vive Launch Thread -- Computer, activate holodeck

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Krejlooc

Banned
Edit: Anyone else want Time Crisis in vr? Or House of the Dead? I'm dying for some old school on-rails shooters.

Really, any shooter with cover is now going to feel like Time Crisis in VR. Hover Junkers feels quite a bit like Time Crisis when you're avoiding enemy fire.

You don't necessarily have to be on rails. Hover Junkers gets away with making your room a craft that you fly around the world, but it works just as well with normal budget cuts style teleportation.
 

Monger

Member
Word of warning:

I've tried 2 different display port to hdmi adapters (display port from card to hdmi on breakout box) and neither of them worked. Strangely enough, I tried a display port to hdmi cable (just one end dp and one end hdmi) and it worked great.

Also, I have a strange setup where the hdmi went out on my 970, so I need to switch between the vive and my tv which only takes hdmi, thus not just using a dp-minidp for the vive.

I've been using an active DisplayPort to HDMI adapter from Amazon. I use that to connect HDMI to my receiver and have the HDMI port going to the Vive. I haven't tried it the other way, but it works fine with that configuration.
 

Arulan

Member
Thanks. Yeah, debating it. Are they both the same as far as capability to run the same multimedia stuff? 360 videos etc?

Also, any issues with running long sessions with seated games like cockpit sims? Comfort wise?

I haven't tried 360° videos yet, but I don't see why there would be any issues. Virtual Desktop appears to be the most complete program at the moment for this, and it supports both.

No issues for long sessions or comfort for me. It might take a little while to find the best fit at first with the way the straps work. I tried the Oculus Rift CV1 at PAX South this year, with EVE: Valkyrie specifically, and from what I can remember, it was lighter and perhaps a little more comfortable because of it, but nothing worth buying another headset in my opinion.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
This is the picture I sent to the Valve engineer.

And here is some info he sent me:



I attempted a test tonight where I tried to have the headset on at sundown (when the radio transmission strength would be reduced). Sundown was at 750pm. I used the headset around 730pm (tracking issues) but was interrupted and unable to check it again until 745pm (no issues).

I'm fairly confident this is an RF interference issue from the radio tower.


Some more info from Valve

we've tracked down the anomaly to the communications relay to the west of our current location. The only way we can keep the portal to the other dimension stable is to shut down that transmitter. Gordon, we're relying on you
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Tempted to just cancel my rift at this point, but at the same time, I don't want to miss exclusives, and it sounds as if it's more comfortable for seated games like Eve or Elite.


Vive isn't uncomfortable. Rift just seems to be more comfortable. And I like the idea of integrated headphones purely from a convenience point of view

But I fully expect third party straps to come out for vive (possibly even clones of the rift strap) and we've already seen one person use a welding mask frame.

I think the tech will evolve rapidly enough that te money from the rift would be better put towards an earlier than expected upgrade (vive 2, or2), or a GPU
 

Durante

Member
I think the tech will evolve rapidly enough that te money from the rift would be better put towards an earlier than expected upgrade (vive 2, or2), or a GPU
I wonder if there will be an upgrade path which allows you to reuse the lighthouses. That part of the setup seems like the most future-proof to me at this point -- unless you run into some of the known issues tracking is basically perfect.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I wonder if there will be an upgrade path which allows you to reuse the lighthouses. That part of the setup seems like the most future-proof to me at this point -- unless you run into some of the known issues tracking is basically perfect.

Possibly - although I wonder how expensive they are? From impressions of oculus touch I think the vive controllers may need iterating to be more natural to hold, although that then risks breaking current games for anyone that only buys vive 2. Curious to see what they do around that but obviously headset changes are the biggest area of interest
 

viveks86

Member
Possibly - although I wonder how expensive they are? From impressions of oculus touch I think the vive controllers may need iterating to be more natural to hold, although that then risks breaking current games for anyone that only buys vive 2. Curious to see what they do around that but obviously headset changes are the biggest area of interest

I think this is pretty much a forgone conclusion. I'd be surprised if there is any backwards compatibility at all. There is so much room for improvement in controller design that they will simply force developers to either patch their old games for new controller support or risk losing compatibility altogether. The only component that could potentially transcend this generation are the lighthouses, which may not be costly enough to warrant an upgrade path.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I think this is pretty much a forgone conclusion. I'd be surprised if there is any backwards compatibility at all. There is so much room for improvement in controller design that they will simply force developers to either patch their old games for new controller support or risk losing compatibility altogether. The only component that could potentially transcend this generation are the lighthouses.

well on the plus side, the vive controllers have barely any buttons. Assuming they at least keep a trigger and track pad/analogue stick per hand, the other main difference would be relative orientation of sensors to the hand, which could probably be handled by drivers anyway to correct for that.
 

Spookie

Member
awwyiss.jpg


Looks like the May orders are being prepared then! :D
 
A review of the Vive from a friend, excellent review at that too!

So then guys, I have had it for nearly a week now, I guess it's time for some opinions on the HTC Vive and VR as a whole.
Un-boxing and first impressions.

The Vive is a beautifully well made and presented product, everything is held firmly in place with high quality foam inserts meaning you can use the packaging as a carry case too should you need to transport etc, the controllers, headset and lighthouses all have an extremely high level of finish to them without feeling too heavy (more on this later). All in the device does feel like you have gotten your moneys worth.
Installation and Setup.

Although it is explained fairly clearly in the setup program, a good level of tech knowledge is almost essential to getting the thing running for the first time, there were firmware upgrades needed for the controllers and multiple pieces of software to install, not to mention the need to drill holes in the wall for a solid mounting point, all cables are of a decent length and again the quality is exceptional, all in the setup took around 2 hours including time for cable routing and a really clean install.
Software wise the only essential piece of software is the SteamVR suite which you get from within steam itself, there are then optional programs to enable things like wireless control of the light-houses and blue tooth linking of your phone so you can get call and text notifications with the headset on.

Finally you'll need to clear as much space as you possibly can, minimum area is 1.5x2m for room-scale experiences, I wound up with around 4x3m all in.

Experience and Impressions in VR.
If you have not yet tried any for of virtual reality it's very hard to describe just how utterly mind-blowing the feeling really is. Extremely hard to put into words but my brain was utterly convinced what was in front of me was really there, so much so that at one point whilst attempting to adjust the wrist straps on the controllers I went to place one down on a table in front of me only to see if vanish through the table and hit the floor. Initial comments had me worried about the resolution and the SDE (screen door effect) but these are only apparent when you really look for them, once interacting with a game or environment they totally vanish from the front of your mind.

The tracking on the HMD and controllers is second to none, you can, with ease, throw a controller into the air and catch it regardless of the fact you can see neither the controller or you own limbs in reality. Any wobbling or jitter you may have seen in videos is entirely down to the users actual movements, these things track with sub-millimetre accuracy and that goes a long way to convincing your brain that these games and experiences are really there.

After around an hour of messing around with the launch catalogue I began to feel a sharp pressure from the straps just behind my ears, as it turned out I had the top strap of the HMD badly adjusted so all the weight of the device was hanging from the side straps, once properly fitted it became a lot more bearable but you are going to have pressure marks and discomfort after a long session, it's also quite a warm device of itself. When you combine this with the near-acrobatic movement required by some games it can get very hot! it's certainly not a heavy piece of kit overall but when you consider its position on your face and added pressure from the tension of the cable I start to feel a mild discomfort after around 2 hours, it's nothing major though and con be ignored but I feel its worth mentioning.

For the first few minutes you will also be very aware of the cable connecting the HMD to your computer, you quickly get a good feel for its position and after a short while can navigate and manipulate its position subconsciously.
Most, if not all of these minor criticisms are completely forgotten the moment you fire up a game or experience. you are literally transported to another world, it's hard to put into words just how alien (and amazing) this really feels. you simply have to try it for yourself.

I'll clarify on the game Vs experience comparison before I mention any specifically, whilst a good few actual games are available for the Vive, there are a lot more 'Experiences', these can be in the form of cinematics, both interactive and passive, tech demos, apps, photogrametry examples and other small experiences. these are some of the most impressive things you can try in VR.
TheBlu has dropped the jaw of everyone to try it so far. The vast majority of these experiences are free or very reasonably priced (a couple quid a pop maximum) this is in stark contrast to the games which in my opinion are quite severely overpriced at the moment, I fully understand why (small user base and high development costs) and am happy to pay out if a game is worth it but with the proliferation of early access on steam and some very high prices, I can see disappointment in some games futures. This brings me neatly onto one of the biggest problems facing VR right now, the AAA paradox. At present consumers seem to be waiting for a AAA title before buying into the tech, at the same time AAA studios are waiting for the user base to grow before committing a lot of money to development so we are stuck with a slow increase in user base and a lot of on the fence developers. That said, Hover Junkers, Fantastic Contraption, Job Simulator and a few others are well worthy of your time and money all 3 are brilliantly polished and engaging games that really do feel "made for VR" at least on a room-scale level. There are also TONS of games on the horizon, by they end of 2016 I expect an extensive collection of games both big budget and indie.

There are not many sit-down experiences available for the Vive at present, this is largely down to some rather under-handed exclusivity deals with Oculus and facebook. Segregating the PC market with "platform" exclusive content is something that has been avoided for years, it's only now that it's being allowed to happen and I'm strongly against it personally, there are workarounds in place to enable you to play rift content on the Vive but this doesn't change the fact that you need to purchase the content through the oculus store and not via steam for any of it to work, out of principle oculus will be receiving no money from me until they get in-line with all the other VR manufacturers that are already available and on the horizon. All other devices use an OpenVR SDK, for HMD agnostic compatibility. Poor form on facebooks part I think.


So, TL:DR - Is it worth the spend?
Absolutely, I'd quite happily pay more than the asking price for such an awe inspiring experience. If you are on the fence I urge you to give it a try and help kick off what I honestly believe will be the future of gaming.
my only lasting criticism is to do with the resolution, Sure the resolution could be better, but it's plenty good enough for now and will only increase as GPU's become more capable. I just really wish they hadn't used a pentile display! I think the triangular shape of the pixel arrangement makes the resolution slightly easier to notice. very minor, disappears once in a game but again, worth noting.

Apologies for the wall of text, evidently I had more to say than I thought! Hopefully this is of some help to people still debating and if any of you want to try VR, give me a shout and we'll get something sorted, the more people that try it, the more that will buy it. Before long the AAA studios will take serious note and the platform will really start to take off.
Cheers!
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I haven't tried 360° videos yet, but I don't see why there would be any issues. Virtual Desktop appears to be the most complete program at the moment for this, and it supports both.

No issues for long sessions or comfort for me. It might take a little while to find the best fit at first with the way the straps work. I tried the Oculus Rift CV1 at PAX South this year, with EVE: Valkyrie specifically, and from what I can remember, it was lighter and perhaps a little more comfortable because of it, but nothing worth buying another headset in my opinion.

Vive isn't uncomfortable. Rift just seems to be more comfortable. And I like the idea of integrated headphones purely from a convenience point of view

But I fully expect third party straps to come out for vive (possibly even clones of the rift strap) and we've already seen one person use a welding mask frame.

I think the tech will evolve rapidly enough that te money from the rift would be better put towards an earlier than expected upgrade (vive 2, or2), or a GPU


Thanks, yeah at first I was all in for both, but that was when I thought the IQ was better on Rift and the Rift exclusives were not playable on Vive. Now it's more of a struggle in my mind. Because I'll want to upgrade to a beefy single GPU later as well, also want to pick up an i7 1TB Surface Book, PSVR, (PS4K if it launches this year), and an iPhone7.


So that extra 600 could help with some of those tech purchases.


Hmm. I'll wait until I get the shipping confirmation to make my final choice. But can anyone give me reasons to keep the Rift as well?
 

Arulan

Member
Ifixit has done their tear-down. Basic summary is that there's stuff in it.
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HTC+Vive+Teardown/62213

No real surprises, but it looks user-modifiable to some degree.

Given my tests with my HD 600s on the Vive's amp, these two caught my attention:

Cmedia CM108B USB Audio Codec

Cirrus Logic WM5102 Audio Codec

From what I can gather searching their specifications, it appears to confirm my hypothesis that they're not capable of driving high-end headphones. Something around a max load of 32 ohms is their intended use-case.

I would appreciate any other insight others may have. Also, can anyone guess as to why they're using two audio codec chips?
 

artsi

Member
Ifixit has done their tear-down. Basic summary is that there's stuff in it.
https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/HTC+Vive+Teardown/62213

No real surprises, but it looks user-modifiable to some degree.

I was surprised that the displays are not 100% same panels on Rift and Vive, the Rift one is 1,8mm smaller.

Each display measures ~91.8 mm diagonally, which translates to ~447 ppi. For comparison, the Rift CV1 has ~456 ppi due to a slightly smaller display (90 mm) that still packs the same resolution as the Vive.
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I can't really afford it anymore. I have a Rift on order too and I think I'd prefer that due in part to the space I have available is now a lot smaller since I bought a racing cockpit.
If I had more room and a bit more money I'd likely keep it.



Fair enough, twas just curious. Really struggling with my decision for whatever reason.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I can't really afford it anymore. I have a Rift on order too and I think I'd prefer that due in part to the space I have available is now a lot smaller since I bought a racing cockpit.
If I had more room and a bit more money I'd likely keep it.

if you were solely going to use it sitting down then I'd understand, but you don't think you'd ever use it at least standing and turning in place? You can also obviously sit down in the Vive, but if you really were only sitting then the Rift's comfort plus currently better racing game support might sway me that way.
 

UnrealEck

Member
if you were solely going to use it sitting down then I'd understand, but you don't think you'd ever use it at least standing and turning in place? You can also obviously sit down in the Vive, but if you really were only sitting then the Rift's comfort plus currently better racing game support might sway me that way.

I'd be using it for anything I can use it for. Driving/flight, standing/turning and stepping around a bit (roomscale). But now that I don't have the space for roomscale, it's out for now.
I could lift the cockpit and put it on a bed I suppose. But to do that I'd need someone's help and it's a bit of a pain to do that every time I wanted to make room. Either that or permenantly get rid of some furniture.
I think the Rift is better suited to my needs now.

I might have to just cancel the Vive altogether and not even be able to buy it and resell it. If I had the money I'd just buy both and be done. If I can resell the Vive and make some money that can go towards an upgrade to Pascal.
 

dumbo

Member
I was surprised that the displays are not 100% same panels on Rift and Vive, the Rift one is 1,8mm smaller.

It also appears to have 2 separate wireless modules, one on each side of the headset.
- Nordic Semiconductor nRF24LU1P 2.4 GHz SoC (x2)
 

bloodydrake

Cool Smoke Luke
So the Revive injector project is just bad ass. Subnautica (steam version) is working fine using it on the Vive. I have quite a few games that I bought when I thought I was going to have the Rift... and now I can play them!

this is fantastic news for whatever reason Subnautica is one of those games I really want to play in VR (tho from the sounds of it you have to set to low setting and then turn up texture resolution to make it playable)

Not sure if you have it but I'd be curious how well Pinball FX2 VR works with revive
 

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
So the Revive injector project is just bad ass. Subnautica (steam version) is working fine using it on the Vive. I have quite a few games that I bought when I thought I was going to have the Rift... and now I can play them!


Hoping this doesn't get blocked by Oculus.



Does Lucky's Tale work?
 

UnrealEck

Member
I found how easy it is to detatch and seperate my cockpit's seat from the wheel and pedal mount. So it's perfectly possible now for me to detatch it and sit it aside, leaving me room for VR.
Might go back to Vive now...Damn being wealthy or even financially sound would be nice right now.
Guess I'll have to ask for a loan of some money for that Vive order.

I still think Rift might come out on top once they get Touch out. This is the hardest hardware decision I've had to make by far. Wish I could just settle it by throwing money at the problem.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I found how easy it is to detatch and seperate my cockpit's seat from the wheel and pedal mount. So it's perfectly possible now for me to detatch it and sit it aside, leaving me room for VR.
Might go back to Vive now...Damn being wealthy or even financially sound would be nice right now.
Guess I'll have to ask for a loan of some money for that Vive order.

I still think Rift might come out on top once they get Touch out. This is the hardest hardware decision I've had to make by far. Wish I could just settle it by throwing money at the problem.

bear in mind that if you find flight/driving games compelling enough in VR, you don't need your cockpit to have a monitor mount - you can just sit facing a corner somewhere :)

If it helps, whatever you choose, you'll want to replace it in 2 years, so its not a final decision :p
 

Knch

Member
Given my tests with my HD 600s on the Vive's amp, these two caught my attention:

Cmedia CM108B USB Audio Codec

Cirrus Logic WM5102 Audio Codec

From what I can gather searching their specifications, it appears to confirm my hypothesis that they're not capable of driving high-end headphones. Something around a max load of 32 ohms is their intended use-case.

I would appreciate any other insight others may have. Also, can anyone guess as to why they're using two audio codec chips?

Not all high end headphones are also high impedance... (my AKG is working very well, thank you very much.)

And a USB audio codes would not work for HDMI audio I guess?
 

jotun?

Member
I woke up with the idea that it would be fun to have a little demo with a ragdoll dummy that you could grab, punch, and throw around. Of course the problem with turning something like that into a real game is that you have no force feedback, and essentially infinite strength.

Infinite strength.. someone needs to make a HULK VR game! You'd be huge, of course, and able to toss people (or monsters/aliens/robots or whatever) around like they're nothing. Punch tanks to send them flying, or pick them up, rip them in half, etc. Rip a telephone pole out of the ground to use a weapon, and a car to use as a shield. Movement could be done similar to the teleport style. Target with an arc, hit the button and Hulk will leave the camera and leap to the location. Once he's there, you teleport back into him
 
Starting to get hyped. Just let my card people know the charge is going through, so hopefully there will be no hiccups.


Now to prepare my VR room. And figure out how I am mounting my lighthouses.

Shit. I've just been ignoring this thread so time would go by quicker. Is there a link to a simple beginnners guide to include setup and games?
 

Zalusithix

Member
Thanks. Hype!

You might want to keep your hype in check to a certain extent. Either there weren't many people past the first hour, or this is an absolutely massive order being shipped. We've seen over a month's worth of orders get the email now. Assuming it isn't another mistake email, it could take longer than the first batches in email -> ship lag. I'd be quite pleased if it didn't, but when I see things way outside of the previous "normal" I can't help but be somewhat reserved in my expectations. Edit: Then again, going by the above post, we have March 22nd getting shipping... Assuming that wasn't an April mis-slot, they might get these things out in short order after all.

And on an unrelated note, it looks like the Vive's eyepieces have a nice ridge to latch onto for creating a prescription lens holder. Nice to know I wont have to rely on friction alone. That said, I'm still trying to work out how best to make one that's secure, easy to print, and easy to put on and take off for when being used by people other than myself.
 

dmosher

Member
Anyone need a Vive Bundle Code? I have an extra as mine took longer than the 24 hours they said it would and support emailed me a second one.

First reply gets it.
 
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