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Hurricane Katrina Thread: Any LA Gaffers?

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Phoenix said:
On this I am in 100% agreement. These people should be hunted down and if necessary killed.

But do you agree that the ARMY should be brought in? As I said, idiots are already calling the National Guard deployment an action of a police state. Just imagine what would happen if the Army starts rolling tanks in.

But I do agree. They need to stop being so sensitive with the idiots shooting at rescue and military helicopters. If you shoot at someone trying to rescue, you get a bullet in the head. It's that simple.
 
BTW Phoenix, have you been approached by any news organizations about your efforts in all of this? You taking in all of these people in your house for shelter should get some recognition.
 
Something Awful (which is hosted in NO) is down! Now it's personal!

Course, it's a minor miracle it didn't go down until like noon today.
 
Phoenix said:
On this I am in 100% agreement. These people should be hunted down and if necessary killed.


I agree and if they have to bring in the military then so be it. Order needs to be maintained so that they can evacuate more people. It's that niggling lesser good, greater good thing.
 
But do you agree that the ARMY should be brought in? As I said, idiots are already calling the National Guard deployment an action of a police state. Just imagine what would happen if the Army starts rolling tanks in.


Uh, they're being brought it to help the refugees, idiot.
 
Yeah, it's unfortunate but even a bleeding heart liberal like me will readily admit that the National Guard will likely have to shoot people in order to maintain order so as to rescue and evacuate whoever is left. It's a sad fact that disasters like these will cause your inner self to come to the forefront if you're faced with them. For some people that means bringing out your best, for others it is your worst.
 
ManaByte said:
But do you agree that the ARMY should be brought in? As I said, idiots are already calling the National Guard deployment an action of a police state. Just imagine what would happen if the Army starts rolling tanks in.

As soon as martial law was declared it WAS a police state, so any available and necessary steps should be taken. I was watching cobra helicopters up in the air on some earlier feeds so perhaps some action will be taken by military forces.
 
some more depressing news from wwltv.com

4:15 P.M. - (AP): Police say storm victims are being raped and beaten inside the New Orleans Convention Center.

About 15,200 people who had taken shelter at the convention center to await buses grew increasingly hostile.

Police Chief Eddie Compass says he sent in 88 officers to quell the situation at the building, but they were quickly beaten back by an angry mob.

Compass says, "We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten."

He says tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon.

In hopes of defusing the unrest at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find. But the bedlam appeared to make leaving difficult.
 
This reminds me of that Bruce Willis and Denzel Washington movie where NY is under martial law due to possible bombings.
 
Sadly I do think they need troops and tanks on the ground. A bunch armed looters do not deserve to stand in the way of those who are trapped, sick, dying, and simply lost. They have enough to worry about; getting shot should be the least of their worries. If this country would get with the times, we wouldn't sell guns anymore, but that will never happen.
 
Peoples patience has finally evaporated. I don't know if I can really blame them. Especially when they are in a "mob mentality".


Here's another depressing story .. sorry.

Miss. Struggles to Deal With Dead Bodies
Sep 01 4:53 PM US/Eastern


By RUSS BYNUM
Associated Press Writer


PASCAGOULA, Miss.


Crews are driving around coastal Mississippi, picking up bodies left on sidewalks like garbage and depositing them in refrigerated mobile morgues. Coroners are conducting autopsies in parking lots because the only available light is from the sun.

Most Hurricane Katrina relief efforts are focused on the living, many of whom are struggling to get enough food, water, shelter, power and medical attention. The dead are a lower priority, and many bodies have been putrefying since the water receded Monday.

The official death toll was 126 and rising Thursday as search-and- rescue teams and dogs go through the ruins of neighborhoods washed away by the huge storm surge.

Most of the bodies in Jackson County _ where the beach towns of Pascagoula, Gautier and Ocean Springs were swamped _ have been taken to the Heritage Funeral Home in Moss Point. The business has no water, power or phone service, making the job of storing and identifying the dead difficult for county coroner Vicki Broadus and a forensic pathologist working with her.

A refrigerated truck was running in the parking lot Thursday with 10 bodies, six of which could not be identified. Broadus said most of the victims drowned or suffered severe injuries when buildings collapsed around them. Their faces have been distorted from the water or the rubble and they have started to decompose. Their identification and clothes were swept away, and many bodies had drifted miles from home.

"We are looking for any scars, tattoos, dental work. I'm doing DNA, fingerprinting and photos," she said Thursday. "It's not easy. This isn't like looking at James standing there and telling what he looks like. These people really are not identifiable right now."

On the other side of the state in Waveland, one of the hardest-hit towns, police and others drove past obliterated homes in pickup trucks, stopping where bodies had been spotted by officials or reported by family or neighbors.

"All we've been told is that there are bodies lying around, and we can't get to them all," police patrolman John Saltarelli said.

Many family and neighbors tried to treat the bodies with respect, using what they found amid the debris to wrap the bodies.

Wednesday, the crew picked up an older woman's body that had been laid out on a sidewalk in front of a single-story brick apartment complex. A flower-patterned curtain covered her body, and her arms were outstretched. Her face was contorted.

Police did not know her name.

Search and rescue crews were still trying to work their way to areas west of Waveland, expecting to find more bodies. Teams of dogs were sent into the rubble to try to pick up the scent of the living, or the dead.

Some survivors were pulled out as late as Wednesday, when crews found an 80-year-old man under 12 feet of debris in Long Beach. Officials did not release his condition or name.

Broadus expects many more bodies in Jackson County. They have been examining bodies on a table in the parking lot, washing the corpses with a soap, searching for identifiable marks and taking fingerprints, photos and material for a DNA sample.

When done, they apply a topical preservative, zip the body back into a bag and put it back in the refrigerated truck.

When people call to report missing people, Broadus suggests giving more than the basic details about age, weight and height. She wants to know what surgeries people have had, what clothing they were wearing and even what kind of underwear they had on.

"If they routinely wear boxers or briefs, whether they have dentures or partial plates _ anything that might help us," she said.

It will be at least a week and maybe longer before any funerals are conducted, Heritage manager James V. Miller said.

"If we could get power, if we could get phone service, we could serve the families we have waiting," he said. "Then you have to be able to coordinate with cemeteries, casket suppliers and vault companies."
 
Krowley said:
wouldn't that be better than no food supply at all?

people are dying of thirst on the side of the road, surrounded by water that they can't drink. old people are starting to die now as well. it is thursday and conditions have not improved AT ALL. it is starting to get crazy.

edit//the news people should be able to pan around these populated areas and see national guard troops assembled... the new orleans residents can wade through the city, but our guard troops can't? if nessecary, they should be walking in on foot or paratrooping in.. the excuse of everything being difficult to access became stale and fake, sometime yesterday.

As has been said..there some supplies available. But with people running about with guns, dumping supplies that will only come under their control is insane. There is little chance that they will gladly share it with their fellow unarmed citizens.

And people would get killed trying to acquire these supplies. Whether it would be by thugs trying to keep people away from their claims, or warring factions of thugs trying to gain control of the most food, or stampedes of people trying to get some food for their families.

More chaos would ensue.
 
VisionaryQuest0 said:
BTW Phoenix, have you been approached by any news organizations about your efforts in all of this? You taking in all of these people in your house for shelter should get some recognition.

I have not and don't intend to until I can see where the needs of the people who are not as well off as the folks in my house are met. I don't want to take anything away from the people who are simply going to have a hard time surviving. I will ensure that the people within these walls continue to have food, clothing, and shelter. We may have some immediate needs, but I want to make sure other people in shelters are taken care of first. I can afford to help these folks hold their own.
 
AssMan said:
Uh, they're being brought it to help the refugees, idiot.

source? Everywhere just says it's the National Guard and Navy ships are being used as floating HQs for the rescue effort. I have not see ANYTHING saying that the United States ARMY is being brought into NO.
 
They need to bring the army and shoot those pieces of shit on sight. If you wanna act like a stray dog, you'll be threated and shot like a stray dog. I have no problems with the army being in the street.

Hell back in 1998 when the big ice storm hit in Quebec, we had soldiers in the street to prevent looting, and nobody ever complained. I see nothing wrong with that
 
shuri said:
They need to bring the army and shoot those pieces of shit on sight. If you wanna act like a stray dog, you'll be threated and shot like a stray dog. I have no problems with the army being in the street.

Hell back in 1998 when the big ice storm hit in Quebec, we had soldiers in the street to prevent looting, and nobody ever complained. I see nothing wrong with that

According to AssMan, the active duty Army is already being sent in to perform law enforcement even though that would take a presidential decree to do, and that has NOT happened yet.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/local/ktla-090105katrina-natguard,0,6365214.story?coll=ktla-news-1

Although active-duty U.S. troops are being used in the relief effort, constitutional limits prevent them from performing law enforcement duties.

Pentagon officials stressed that only National Guard troops, which are under the control of governors when operating within the United States, may be given law enforcement duties.


Only a presidential decree would allow active-duty federal military troops to be brought into a law enforcement mission, and officials said they did not envision that would be necessary in this case.

"The president does have certain statutory authority to use the active-duty military in order to restore civil order," said Paul McHale, assistant secretary of Defense for domestic security. "Although we don't expect that to happen in this case, we do have units that are on alert, as we always have such units on alert, prepared to deploy in order to use active-duty military forces for the lawful restoration of civil order."
 
CNN said:
Wolf Blitzer: What are you going to do about the thousands of people in the convention center in NO? Why haven't they gotten help?

Director of FEMA: We just found out about those people today.

WTFF!!!!! I heard about those people at the convention center two days ago when the levee first broke! How in the hell can the people at FEMA claim that they just found out about it today? That is absurd. This guy is a f****** joke. I hope he gets fired after this. Talk about incompetant.

This just pisses me off. People are suffering down there so much. They just don't have enough people to help. I actually want to go down there and help now because its obvious that these people need it. I'm just not sure how I could help. I wish the regular people in this country could somehow mobilize and help these people themselves because a whole lot more people are going to die while we wait for FEMA and everyone else to get their acts together.
 
shuri said:
They need to bring the army and shoot those pieces of shit on sight. If you wanna act like a stray dog, you'll be threated and shot like a stray dog. I have no problems with the army being in the street.

Hell back in 1998 when the big ice storm hit in Quebec, we had soldiers in the street to prevent looting, and nobody ever complained. I see nothing wrong with that
No matter what course is taken during this crisis, I can guarantee you that people will complain.
 
They just found out about them TODAY? Do these people watch the news? All three networks were reporting it! WITH VIDEO OF PEOPLE THERE!

I just can't believe what he said, sorry. I think they're trying to cover their ass.
 
Baron Aloha said:
WTFF!!!!! I heard about those people at the convention center two days ago when the levee first broke! How in the hell can the people at FEMA claim that they just found out about it today? That is absurd. This guy is a f****** joke. I hope he gets fired after this. Talk about incompetant.

This just pisses me off so much.
Maybe it's intentional and he just doesn't give a damn? Kinda seems that way, I mean how could somone be THAT incompetent?
 
I didn't even know people were there til I saw a picture of a dead lady in a wheelchair on cnn.com. All I heard for the last 5 days was people at the Superdome.
 
At 91 years old, Booker Harris ended his days propped on a lawn chair, covered by a yellow quilt and abandoned, dead, in front of the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center.

Mr. Harris died in the back of a Ryder panel truck Wednesday afternoon, as he and his 93-year-old wife, Allie, were evacuated from eastern New Orleans. The truck's driver deposited Allie and her husband's body on the Convention Center Boulevard neutral ground.

And there it remained.


I just can't believe something like this can be allowed to happen in the year 2005, in the most powerful nation on earth, disaster or no disaster.

There will be hell to pay after all this is over....I dunno if it's going to be Bush, congress, FEMA, whatever...but heads will roll.
 
This should really come as no surprise as we have an administration that is known for shafting the poor every chance they get. Why should we be so shocked if everyone else follows their example?

You know, I'd really like to know how this would have turned out up until now had most of the people in need of rescue had been white. If where the places that were hit hardest had mostly white people living there. And don't say white people wouldn't steal guns and start looting, because they would. It's not a question of race but a question of the conditions in the place you live, how desperate you are and how much money you have.
 
Lardbutt said:
I just can't believe something like this can be allowed to happen in the year 2005, in the most powerful nation on earth, disaster or no disaster.

There will be hell to pay after all this is over....I dunno if it's going to be Bush, congress, FEMA, whatever...but heads will roll.
Did you enjoy your tax cut? You know, government needs to be large and responsive to handle things like this. For that it requires money, which comes from taxes... oh, do you see where I'm going with this? Still like your little bullshit neocon revolution?

This is why governments exist. To help and support their citizens in times of need. If we fail that test(and I think this "response" we're seeing proves that we are), what does that say about the people who have been in charge of the government? And the people who elected them?

Someone in the Bush administration wanted to make the federal government so small and ineffective that it could be "drowned in a bath tub". Congratulations, fella. You got your wish.
 
Kinda off topic, but... is it me or does it just feel like there is something in the air? Like something really bad is going to happen soon. I just can't shake that feeling.

Diablos said:
You know, I'd really like to know how this would have turned out up until now had most of the people in need of rescue had been white. If where the places that were hit hardest had mostly white people living there. And don't say white people wouldn't steal guns and start looting, because they would. It's not a question of race but a question of the conditions in the place you live, how desperate you are and how much money you have.

We are in complete agreement.
 
WedgeX said:
As has been said..there some supplies available. But with people running about with guns, dumping supplies that will only come under their control is insane. There is little chance that they will gladly share it with their fellow unarmed citizens.

And people would get killed trying to acquire these supplies. Whether it would be by thugs trying to keep people away from their claims, or warring factions of thugs trying to gain control of the most food, or stampedes of people trying to get some food for their families.

More chaos would ensue.

well you got chaos either way.. either people dying in massive numbers from dehydration (it isn't happening now, but it's starting to happen) or a big gang war over food. you're fucked either way, but if i was on the ground out there, thirsting to death, i would rather them at least TRY to air drop some food and water. Most of the groups of legitmate types (non thugs) are gathered together in certain places. Drop the food and water there.. announce it on a bullhorn.. whatever.

also it all goes back to the other problem.. what they need is a few national guard troops to guard food drop locations. IMO they should be on the ground by now. it's thursday. There is no question that this response was fucked up massivley. It's hard to blame people for it, because they are learning as they go, and this is a new kind of disaster, but it is a massive fuck up, and if they don't get things working very soon, it will no longer be understandable. Heads will roll (in a political sense), but by then it won't really matter anymore at least not to the people that died of thirst on the interstate.
 
Diablos said:
You know, I'd really like to know how this would have turned out up until now had most of the people in need of rescue had been white. If where the places that were hit hardest had mostly white people living there. And don't say white people wouldn't steal guns and start looting, because they would. It's not a question of race but a question of the conditions in the place you live, how desperate you are and how much money you have.

It is a race issue if you look at it from the "what if it were white people' point of view.
The thugs in question aren't handicapped, sick or elderly, they planned on staying to loot thinking the storm would be another lucky blowover like normal for NO.

They were wrong, have no idea the pumps failed or about the breeched levees, and think the state gov is leaving them to die on purpose.

What does being white or black have to do with this ?

I'm sure you have a point and I'm missing it, I dunno, it's been a very long exhausting week down here.
 
I can't say for sure. That's why I said I'd really like to know what would be happening right now if the people stranded were white.
 
I think an interesting change of topic, but not too far a change in topic is the debate of whether NO should be rebuild, or dried out for the poeple who lived there to gather belongings then let the levee open to just allow NO to remian under water for good.

I mean it's a bad plan to try to support a city that's surrounded by high water on all sides, esp with the hurricane seasons we have here at times.

There is plenty of high land to build upon rather than try only to fail at this again.
I just can't see how this will never happen again, it's unstable.
 
Baron Aloha said:
Kinda off topic, but... is it me or does it just feel like there is something in the air? Like something really bad is going to happen soon. I just can't shake that feeling.

civil war
 
Kinda off topic, but... is it me or does it just feel like there is something in the air? Like something really bad is going to happen soon. I just can't shake that feeling.

It would be devastating if another storm hit, or if a terrorist attack were to hit right now. It would be very very challenging.
 
Yeah, something fucked up will happen. An outbreak of some disease from the filthy water, urban warfare... something.

A natural disaster in the middle of the poorest of areas is not good, not good at all.
 
Diablos said:
Yeah, something fucked up will happen. An outbreak of some disease from the filthy water, urban warfare... something.

A natural disaster in the middle of the poorest of areas is not good, not good at all.


Jesus...you guys are depressing. In a week everything will be better. Things seem bad now but given it's been 3 days not much can be done so quick. Next week all of the people will be safe in another state. The looters/scum will be dead and getting the water out of there should be started.

TS Lee is out there but it's headed north away from the states.
 
Wow, this NBC footage is so depressing.

For the people who are saying we should air drop food into the city.... you do realize that people are going to tear each other apart to get to that food and water. That would be even worse, that would lead to full scale civil disorder. They WOULD have to bring in the army to break that up. It's a horrible, ghoulish thing to do but we must restore order before humantarian aid can be given.
 
Here is a piece of wisdom from Bush:

"Don't buy gas if you don't need it"


WHY THE HELL WOULD I BUY GAS IF I DIDN'T NEED IT? What am I going to do, swim in it?
 
Phoenix said:
Here is a piece of wisdom from Bush:

"Don't buy gas if you don't need it"


WHY THE HELL WOULD I BUY GAS IF I DIDN'T NEED IT? What am I going to do, swim in it?
all in a hard day's work for bush's federal govt!
 
Phoenix said:
Here is a piece of wisdom from Bush:

"Don't buy gas if you don't need it"


WHY THE HELL WOULD I BUY GAS IF I DIDN'T NEED IT? What am I going to do, swim in it?

And lo, Bush has now raised the spectre of Jimmy Carter wearing a sweater, asking Americans to simply turn down their thermostats. Way to torpedo your presidency with three years left, Dubya.


Do you have a link, Phoenix?
 
I honestly wonder if New Orleans will ever come back. Water will receed, and can be irigated, buildings and homes can be rebuilt but honestly, who will want to live there? How many people who are able(financially) will decide to move away from the city altogether? And how many people who have been rendered homeless because of Katrina will opt to start over elsewhere? Hurricanes unlike lightning can, and often do strike in the same place. Who, especially after witnessing this, would live there with that overlying risk always there if they didn't have to, and could do something about it? The amount of hurricanes have been at a high point over the last few years, if that trend continues its most likey just a matter of time before another hits the area.
 
Pardon my language, but this is utterly fucking insane.

it's kind of a weird thing to say, but I can't imagine how anyone can care about bullshit like the revolution or 'i'm so lonely' at a time like this. i'm just sitting here praying for people to be safe and fed. ughhh.
 
There's a special show covering the aftermath and what's gonna happen soon in the area on CNBC right now. Should be interesting.
 
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