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[Sentenza]

"Get a PC" isn't a solution. From the specs, most people are going to be hitting 30fps at 4k too.

I mean, it is if you are bothered by performance limitations on a console.
The OP went on a demented tirade about being exasperated by people who complain about 30 fps...
Well, guess what? That's not going to be me, because that's hardly ever a problem on my PC.I have options.

And no one said you should be the village's retarded and get an INADEQUATE PC, anyway.
So not sure what argument you were trying to make there.

 

[SmokedMeat]

What’s the best “feeling” game you’ve ever played on console?

Best feeling came about on PC for me. I’m at the point where 60fps is the baseline, because the better a game feels, the more enjoyable it is to play. These days 120fps at 1440p with very high settings is *chef’s kiss*.

On consoles, I’d have to go back in time. CoD games always felt pretty good. Some of Nintendo’s games like Mariokart 8 play great.

 

[SmokedMeat]

"Get a PC" isn't a solution. From the specs, most people are going to be hitting 30fps at 4k too.

PC doesn’t force you into a set mode like consoles. Developers don’t dictate how you play your game. You can drop individual settings or drop to 1440p to hit 60fps.

So yes, PC absolutely solves the problem for people that want higher frames.

 

[peronmls]

When does input lag matter in movies?

I said nothing about input lag. Get a CRT, go wired and get a PC if it bothers you.

 

[Banjo64]

OP casually spittin stone cold facts

Best games ever made:

DeS, DaS, Bloodborne, BotW, TotK, OOT, Halo 3, Mario 64, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Skyrim, The Witcher 3 - all 30fps. Read it and weep.

Don’t waste energy complaining, buy a PC instead if you care that much.

I don’t get the agro.

30fps is the norm whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Gone]

I'd take 1440/60 over 4K/30.

 

[nkarafo]

At the end of PS3 gen i said "fuck this shit, I'm going pc"

Yup, that's the gen i decided that also. This was the worst gen when it comes to frame rate because it had less 60fps games than the previous generation (PS2/GC/XBOX). It's also notable how there are almost zero arcade racing games at 60fps when in previous gen there were so many. It was quite sad and a huge regression in console gaming.

Technically, the PS1/N64 gen was worse but it was expected because it was the first gen where textured polygons became the standard and the machines were not powerful enough to push 60fps on average. Plus, even 30fps was an improvement over older 3D games. So that gen gets a pass.

 

[Dunker99]

What a horribly obnoxious, aggressive, arrogant and selfish OP.
MANY people much prefer 60fps over 30fps and would like the option on console. Hence the popularity of performance modes. Why the hell do you think you can be so rudely dismissive of other people’s opinions?

Onto ignore you go. SMH.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

30 fps is absolutely fine for the vast majority of games

If you’re not a twitch shooter, it’s totally unnecessary

Options are always welcome but not at the expense of limiting development

 

[Techies]

If playing at 30fps makes me nauseous then what? It has kept me from buying 30fps games, including Bloodborne, for years. How does that fit into this discussion?

I bought PS5 for PSVR2, while I was waiting I downloaded bloodborne expecting it to be 60fps. 30fps felt so horribly bad I never played it. Even on my xbox I've almost bought an older title just to find out it's stuck at 30 then I changed my mind.

What's sad is that a lot of need for speed games are stuck at 30. 30fps ruined gaming. I quit 30fps gaming 10 years ago.

 

[rodrigolfp]

OP casually spittin stone cold facts

Best games ever made:

DeS, DaS, Bloodborne, BotW, TotK, OOT, Halo 3, Mario 64, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Skyrim, The Witcher 3 - all 30fps. Read it and weep.

Don’t waste energy complaining, buy a PC instead if you care that much.

I don’t get the agro.

30fps is the norm whether you agree with it or not.

More funny than your list of best games ever is thinking that is the 30fps versions of almost all of these games that are the best.

 

[nkarafo]

30fps is the norm whether you agree with it or not.

Well yeah, we all know it's the norm. That's the problem though

Also, all the games you mentioned would be much better at 60fps. Some of them have PC ports so they can be played at 60 or more. Some can be emulated to do so. But the ones that can't are always going to be hamstrung by this limitation, never revealing their full potential, not even on more powerful hardware.

 

[Knightime_X]

I've cared about framerate since the 90's. 80's to some degree but I was quite young back then.
Back then I never actually called it 30 or 60fps, back then I remember others including myself calling it: Slowdown, sluggish, or "Smooth when in motion".
Sometimes straight up choppy or slide show.

30fps with stable pacing is tolerable if no other options exist.
30fps never looks as good as 60fps when being in motion counts the most.

It was the Ps360 era that pushed me the hardest into getting a gaming pc.
I regret nothing.

 

[FF:Enhanced_Reality]

I'm not going to lie, I never really used to care about the 30/60 argument. I've always been a console gamer, always enjoyed my games. Some 720p 30fps games on PS3 were brilliant. Some 1080p 30fps games on PS4 were incredible. As look as it was a smooth, silky 30, no issues. But getting a PS4 and the choice of performance or quality ruined me.

I would, in nearly every case, choose performance over quality. If PS5 Pro exists and offers 4K at 60fps, then I'll be in day one. Honestly the fluidity of motion and animation just cannot be overstated over higher quality assets and graphics.

Now, I'm not going to dunk on anyone who doesn't care or if Sony said the next Horizon is 30fps only, but look at what we have, then cool, no issues.

I think the concern with Starfield, which I imagine prompted this thread is, is that they set such an unbelievable expectation. They're developing for just PC and XBOX which is 90% the same. They have an incredibly powerful machine in the Series X which is allegedly the most powerful console in the world (on paper it seems so far) and it's been in development for such a long time. We talk about a new engines, new technology, advancements etc. And the game is launching at a capped 30 on Series X with no choice to go 60 with a performance mode.

It's a creative choice but it's one I feel the gamer should still be given. I can still realise your vision if you reduce your quality for a smoother experience. But that's just me. I don't care either way since it's likely never coming out for PlayStation and tbh I'm sick and fed up of Bethesda games being as buggy as they are. When your engine is a heavily modified version of an ancient engine that still works via component entity systems, I will happily pass on that game. I learnt my lesson with Skyrim and Fallout 76 when I gave them a second chance. For console gamers, it's very much wait till they won't patch it anymore and then pray to god you don't get a game breaking bug.

 

[SmokedMeat]

More funny than your list of best games ever is thinking that is the 30fps versions of almost all of these games that are the best.

Right? Every single one of those games that got a remaster on console with a higher frame rate, was met with excitement.

The Last of Us especially where the PS4 remaster allowed you to switch back and forth between 30fps and 60fps was jarring. Not only did 30fps feel like walking in mud, but you gained nothing of value visually.

 

[Balducci30]

Best feeling came about on PC for me. I’m at the point where 60fps is the baseline, because the better a game feels, the more enjoyable it is to play. These days 120fps at 1440p with very high settings is *chef’s kiss*.

On consoles, I’d have to go back in time. CoD games always felt pretty good. Some of Nintendo’s games like Mariokart 8 play great.

So you’re mainly a PC guy then since you seem to value fps this amount - which fair enough - that is the platform for you in that case. Mario Kart and COD are certainly not the best “feeling” games to me - but that’s subjective to you.

Either way consoles are boxes that last 7 or so years on hardware that’s already behind cutting edge PC’s when they release. I don’t think dictating that they perform at 60 fps will help you as a PC player see much in terms of ambition. Most games are designed to push consoles first and then on PC you can play them with updated whatever. But seeing as consoles are the baseline - wouldn’t you want companies to push that hardware to the point where they may have to sacrifice resolution and fps on it - if only so you can play these games with the higher fidelity and fps you’d prefer on your pc?

 

[HazukiSensei]

Ive been playing PC since 2004 (console gaming still also)and have experience high frames since 2004. And still have no issue with 30 on console and understand why it is necessary for the dev to want to push their limits on fidelity and tech within the engine. Its not just graphics you are sacrificing, its particle effects, physics, NPC count etc that could be cut in favor of DOUBLING the frame rate.

Especially when you guys want 4k native also. Do you understand what you are asking for?

Just a bunch of people today that I suspect are more new to gaming than they will admit. I.E. young. And try to seem like they know what they are talking about, it's like when nakeyjakey or Dunkey talks about "gameplay first" and cant handle even dialogue sections in Half Life 2, when in reality they are the same dude bro gamer that would skip cutscenes when you tried to show them a new cool game.

Unfortunately there are alotttt of undercover bros in the gaming space that dont think they are bros. And they spew shit like this out in an effort to seem like they know whats up lol

 

[Balducci30]

More funny than your list of best games ever is thinking that is the 30fps versions of almost all of these games that are the best.

No shit - but they couldn’t do 60 fps on the consoles they released on - should they just have delayed the games until the next generation?

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Why are these 30fps defenders so sensitive as of late? If you don't chill they're gonna add a stripe on the pride flag for you folks.

 

[kyussman]

Tired of discussion of a video game topic on a video game forum.......just don't engage with those discussions then.....easy peasy.......but no,you actually make a whole thread about it adding to the discussion......?I think it's well worth discussing given the power we now have in modern consoles,in fact I'd say there is way more reason to discuss it these days.

 

[SmokedMeat]

So you’re mainly a PC guy then since you seem to value fps this amount - which fair enough - that is the platform for you in that case. Mario Kart and COD are certainly not the best “feeling” games to me - but that’s subjective to you.

Either way consoles are boxes that last 7 or so years on hardware that’s already behind cutting edge PC’s when they release. I don’t think dictating that they perform at 60 fps will help you as a PC player see much in terms of ambition. Most games are designed to push consoles first and then on PC you can play them with updated whatever. But seeing as consoles are the baseline - wouldn’t you want companies to push that hardware to the point where they may have to sacrifice resolution and fps on it - if only so you can play these games with the higher fidelity and fps you’d prefer on your pc?

Oh absolutely. Believe me, I’m not complaining.

I’m of the camp that understands that 30fps is going to happen on aging fixed console hardware. That’s just the way it is.

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Ive been playing PC since 2004 (console gaming still also)and have experience high frames since 2004. And still have no issue with 30 on console and understand why it is necessary for the dev to want to push their limits on fidelity and tech within the engine. Its not just graphics you are sacrificing, its particle effects, physics, NPC count etc that could be cut in favor of DOUBLING the frame rate.

Especially when you guys want 4k native also. Do you understand what you are asking for?

Just a bunch of people today that I suspect are more new to gaming than they will admit. I.E. young. And try to seem like they know what they are talking about, it's like when nakeyjakey or Dunkey talks about "gameplay first" and cant handle even dialogue sections in Half Life 2, when in reality they are the same dude bro gamer that would skip cutscenes when you tried to show them a new cool game.

Unfortunately there are alotttt of undercover bros in the gaming space that dont think they are bros. And they spew shit like this out in an effort to seem like they know whats up lol

I'm a 60 Fps advocate, and in all the post I've read, I've yet to see anyone ask for 4k/60.

I can't speak for everyone, but from what I can tell, most people know you have to sacrifice for 60 Fps, it's just that most people find it worth it.

 

[Balducci30]

I'm not going to lie, I never really used to care about the 30/60 argument. I've always been a console gamer, always enjoyed my games. Some 720p 30fps games on PS3 were brilliant. Some 1080p 30fps games on PS4 were incredible. As look as it was a smooth, silky 30, no issues. But getting a PS4 and the choice of performance or quality ruined me.

I would, in nearly every case, choose performance over quality. If PS5 Pro exists and offers 4K at 60fps, then I'll be in day one. Honestly the fluidity of motion and animation just cannot be overstated over higher quality assets and graphics.

Now, I'm not going to dunk on anyone who doesn't care or if Sony said the next Horizon is 30fps only, but look at what we have, then cool, no issues.

I think the concern with Starfield, which I imagine prompted this thread is, is that they set such an unbelievable expectation. They're developing for just PC and XBOX which is 90% the same. They have an incredibly powerful machine in the Series X which is allegedly the most powerful console in the world (on paper it seems so far) and it's been in development for such a long time. We talk about a new engines, new technology, advancements etc. And the game is launching at a capped 30 on Series X with no choice to go 60 with a performance mode.

It's a creative choice but it's one I feel the gamer should still be given. I can still realise your vision if you reduce your quality for a smoother experience. But that's just me. I don't care either way since it's likely never coming out for PlayStation and tbh I'm sick and fed up of Bethesda games being as buggy as they are. When your engine is a heavily modified version of an ancient engine that still works via component entity systems, I will happily pass on that game. I learnt my lesson with Skyrim and Fallout 76 when I gave them a second chance. For console gamers, it's very much wait till they won't patch it anymore and then pray to god you don't get a game breaking bug.

Imma tell you this - this isn’t a starfield thing for me. PlayStation is certainly going to have 30 FPS games in the future more and more - and they should be allowed this if we expect to see jumps like LOU1-LOU2 this gen. If every game is pressured to have a 60 FPS option due to the backlash around 30 FPS only games - we’re just shooting ourselves in the foot. Remember LOU 2 couldn’t make 4k OR 60 fps ps4.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Well said, bro. I agree. It's fine if someone thinks "it's unpwabul" but they don't speak for everyone, thankfully.

 

[rodrigolfp]

No shit - but they couldn’t do 60 fps on the consoles they released on - should they just have delayed the games until the next generation?

They could if they really wanted (like Star Wars Battlefront). Or did what DaS, Skyrim and TW3 do and also Starfield is doing. Release a version that is not limited to 30fps.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Even as someone who is very framerate sensitive (prefer 90+), I still agree the conversation is way too loud, and drowning out a lot of more important more interesting conversations.

I'll always choose performance mode when it's available, and I will usually choose PC versions of games because high framerates matter to me. But I've also played tons of console games that only ran at 30. Everyone played TotK just fine. So stop pretending it "ruins" the game. The game will be great. Just chill.

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

OP casually spittin stone cold facts

Best games ever made:

DeS, DaS, Bloodborne, BotW, TotK, OOT, Halo 3, Mario 64, Uncharted, The Last of Us, Skyrim, The Witcher 3 - all 30fps. Read it and weep.

Don’t waste energy complaining, buy a PC instead if you care that much.

I don’t get the agro.

30fps is the norm whether you agree with it or not.

Almost every game you listed can be played on PC at much higher framerate/resolution, I don't understand what you're trying to say. If YOU are fine with 30fps great, but it's objectively worse than literally any other option.

 

[Andrew Evenstar]

agreed. to me great performance is just that extra luxury. as most people would say, bloodborne at 60FPS + would be just beautiful. however, the game itself is already one of the best ever. for me it's just the cherry on the top i guess. however, poor performance is obviously not acceptable - glitches, day 1 patches to fix things, or incomplete games etc. i do love high performance games on PC, it looks and feels great - however it's not a decision i heavily consider when buying games.

for rpgs, it's mostly the battle system, story music etc, - however FPS games like doom, performance does have a heavier weight on my final outlook / grade of the game, because for those games the story for me isn't as important!

 

[ViolentP]

Performance is king. I won't apologize for that.

 

[Banjo64]

Almost every game you listed can be played on PC at much higher framerate/resolution, I don't understand what you're trying to say. If YOU are fine with 30fps great, but it's objectively worse than literally any other option.

Good, do that then - why are people moaning none stop about 30fps? I agree with you, just play it on PC instead. Problem solved.

 

[Balducci30]

They could if they really wanted. Or did what DaS, Skyrim and TW3 do and also Starfield is doing. Release a version that is not limited to 30fps.

You mean it releases on PC which can do these games at a higher framerate for people who need that? So what’s the actual issue here - that is an option and choice you totally have

 

[SHA]

The 30fps that you already knew is way different than the 30fps on these consoles, I think this point shall be addressed before making solid arguments.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

There was a time when I could tolerate 30 fps. That time is no more. 60 fps honestly now feels sluggish, but acceptable.

I have been exposed to high refresh gaming on PC with my 240 Hz Samsung VA panel and my 120Hz C1 OLED. I just cannot enjoy 30 fps any more.

I just cannot. 40 fps? Maybe. I was surprised at how much better 40 felt compared to 30. If MS could get Starfield up to 40 and make it such that it works on regular 60Hz panels then I'd be OK.

No apologies for not liking 30. I am done with it. Fucking done. I refused to play Gotham Knights on console because of that bullshit.

I blame Unreal Engine 5 for that. I have NOT been impressed with the use of that engine one bit. It's a mess.

 

[rodrigolfp]

You mean it releases on PC which can do these games at a higher framerate for people who need that? So what’s the actual issue here - that is an option and choice you totally have

Not for console exclusives (not easily emulated like the Switch). We have to swallow whatever devs choose for those games.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I disagree, we as a community should be able to speak out what we want, and a performance mode should be the standard, doesn't matter the downgrade. We need the option. I'm certain that Microsoft and Sony knows how important the 60fps option is, since they have telemetry on their systems.

People tolerate 30fps, they don't like it, even the ones who don't mind still prefer 60 if they had the option. I own a Nintendo Switch and I tell you, 90% of my games are 60fps, the ones I got that are 30fps just make me hate Nintendo for not releasing a newer system, playing the new Zelda on the Switch is awful, an amazing game being hold back by its platform.

If consoles go back to 30fps experiences, I'll just go back to PC, or even buy a Pro model when available.

 

[RavageX]

I always found this to be stupid as well. Doesn't seem to matter if the game is actually good or not, IS IT 60FPS?????? OMG NO???? WTF are the devs DOING???? I just CANT play it this way!!!

Silly and I cant see it any other way. Just to add, I play PC/console and dont believe this has ever affected me except in VR.

 

[Soodanim]

60 fps is way, way wayy smoother. Not important in a slower game, but very noticeable in an fps or sim.

I think FF7 is better with the 60fps mod, despite FF7 not being a game that relies on it.

 

[proandrad]

30fps warriors need to just suck it up for one generation. If 60fps stays the standard for this gen, then next gen you can have your graphic jump and 60fps.

 

[L*][*N*K]

I did. And it's glorious.

Good for you *clap clap*

 

[Lupin3]

Good for you *clap clap*

 

[skneogaf]

Destiny 1 is a perfect example of why 30fps can be absolutely fine.

That game is still amazing and better than its sequel that can be played at unlimited fps.

 

[hemo memo]

Best feeling came about on PC for me. I’m at the point where 60fps is the baseline, because the better a game feels, the more enjoyable it is to play. These days 120fps at 1440p with very high settings is *chef’s kiss*.

At what cost though?

 

[L*][*N*K]

At what cost though?

2500$, barely works has to run 50 different programs to just get past the main menu and if you dare to say that they will say “you just don’t know how to work a computer”

 

[Balducci30]

I disagree, we as a community should be able to speak out what we want, and a performance mode should be the standard, doesn't matter the downgrade. We need the option. I'm certain that Microsoft and Sony knows how important the 60fps option is, since they have telemetry on their systems.

People tolerate 30fps, they don't like it, even the ones who don't mind still prefer 60 if they had the option. I own a Nintendo Switch and I tell you, 90% of my games are 60fps, the ones I got that are 30fps just make me hate Nintendo for not releasing a newer system, playing the new Zelda on the Switch is awful, an amazing game being hold back by its platform.

If consoles go back to 30fps experiences, I'll just go back to PC, or even buy a Pro model when available.

Totk wouldn’t exist without the ability to have 30 fps releases. Imagine if the developers had in their head “well it has to be 60 fps sooo” they would’ve accomplished none of what they’ve done with that game

 

[hemo memo]

2500$, barely works has to run 50 different programs to just get past the main menu and if you dare to say that they will say “you just don’t know how to work a computer”

Yeah no thanks. I want my games to just work without effort. Consoles guarantees that for me.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Destiny 1 is a perfect example of why 30fps can be absolutely fine.

That game is still amazing and better than its sequel that can be played at unlimited fps.

Game has 2 aim assists fooling the players. Destiny 2 with 1, mouse+kb at unlimited fps is so much better that is even a joke comparing both.

 

[skneogaf]

Game has 2 aim assists fooling the players. Destiny 2 with 1, mouse+kb at unlimited fps is so much better that is even a joke comparing both.

Yeah probably but I was more on about controller comparison.

 

[ReBurn]

30 fps isn't horrible as long as it's the right kind of game, has perfect frame pacing, and it doesn't murder you with bad motion blur.

For some games 30 fps is simply unacceptable. Anything that requires precision, like shooters or fighting games, needs to be at least 60 fps. But those games usually are usually 60 fps during action sequences anyway. For most single player RPG or adventure games 30 fps is tolerable to me as long as it is locked and stable.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Yeah no thanks. I want my games to just work without effort. Consoles guarantees that for me.

Exactly my point, thank you.

 

[rofif]

Yeah no thanks. I want my games to just work without effort. Consoles guarantees that for me.

Same here.
I choose on game per game basis and I've got re4 remake on pc this time around.... and while it was running brilliantly and looked amazing, I did wasted good amount of time troubleshooting it since it was crashing like crazy... but in the end it was worth it I think.
I would normally get it on ps5 but I have all re games on pc and the demo was rough on ps5.