Oh common that's not fair. You'll gain appreciation for anything after going through FFXIII's story.
I had no idea Nomura was borrowing so much from FF12 for Versus ..
- Thread starter Ghost_Protocol
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Oh common that's not fair. You'll gain appreciation for anything after going through FFXIII's story.
Maybe, but I never had an issue with XII before that either.
While this is true, I never really felt attached to the characters or story in any way.
The combat felt like I was playing FFXI on the PS2 and while I enjoyed the MMO, it wasn't the experience I was looking for in a single player FF. At least in terms of combat, I feel that we need another FF with turn based combat and complete player control of their characters, but I highly doubt any future FF will implement this.
I actually felt the characters were the worst part of FFXII. They just had very little chemistry with each other, and some of them had very little relevance to the plot. Because of this, and perhaps the pacing of the game, I felt more detached from what was going on in the game, and never felt immersed in the game's world and story in the same way I did in FFX. Really the only characters that I found compelling in FFXII were Balthier, and maybe Basch. However, I will say that FFXII benefited from the best voice acting in the series.
Keeping with the FFX comparison, FFXII did cut out most (but not all) of the cheesy lines that were scattered throughout FFX's dialogue. However, cheesiness aside, I didn't find FFXII's characters to be any more "real" than FFX's. FFX's characters, when first introduced, are established as archetypes. However, they gradually gain more depth as the game progresses, and show actual character growth, both in the context of the individual, and as a group. I think FFXII's characters were fairly well developed individually, however, I just did not see them develop much collectively as a group. This was probably due to the aforementioned irrelevance of some characters to the overarching plot. In any case, I place both sets of characters in stark contrast to some of FFXIII's characters, who were completely archetypal, and were subject to forced drama that didn't develop organically as part of the story (Snow and Hope were the worst offenders).
As far as Versus goes, I'll just be happy with well developed characters. However, if they do go the FFXII route, I hope they do a much better job with group interactions and development.
Keeping with the FFX comparison, FFXII did cut out most (but not all) of the cheesy lines that were scattered throughout FFX's dialogue. However, cheesiness aside, I didn't find FFXII's characters to be any more "real" than FFX's. FFX's characters, when first introduced, are established as archetypes. However, they gradually gain more depth as the game progresses, and show actual character growth, both in the context of the individual, and as a group. I think FFXII's characters were fairly well developed individually, however, I just did not see them develop much collectively as a group. This was probably due to the aforementioned irrelevance of some characters to the overarching plot. In any case, I place both sets of characters in stark contrast to some of FFXIII's characters, who were completely archetypal, and were subject to forced drama that didn't develop organically as part of the story (Snow and Hope were the worst offenders).
As far as Versus goes, I'll just be happy with well developed characters. However, if they do go the FFXII route, I hope they do a much better job with group interactions and development.
VincitOmnis
Banned
If this is true, my body and my wallet are both ready.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
All this stuff has been known for ages now. All anyone had to do was wander into any random versus thread.
It's threads like this one which makes me think community threads are a great idea. I really don't get the beef people had with the creation of the two Community sub-sections. GAF will lose its flavor if they split the forum even more, yeah, but four sections remain short and sweet. I might do a recapitulation giant post of everything we know about Versus so far in Kagari's FF Community thread once I'm done with the Dissidia stuff that is going on.
I know, I didn't forget about your post, but the junior was pulling that Japanese quote about FFXV out of nowhere. He wasn't even tackling the matter at hand.
GZAY!?
GZay was someone I used to think was a troll, BUT some of his stuff back in 06 turned out to not be too far off the mark about XIII in a creepy way. Like, GZay used to say crazy stuff like the Lightning was a transgender in love with a black man and, man, it's been so long I don't remember anymore.
Heartlesshero and I sat down one time and went through all his favorite lines and figured out how they sorta related to XIII.
It was mostly crazy coincidences, though.
This is exactly the main reason why I like the game so much. The same experience I was having playing 11, but offline, it made it amazing to me. Really wish there was more games using the core battle system and expanding upon it. WKC was an attempt to emulate it, but didn't do it that well.
AuthenticM
Member
I'm pretty sure this was debunked.
Many times.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
That "info" matchs G-Zay/Galvanisation/1Truth's fake info. Right up to the multiple huge cities and matching up with Skyrim part. Lol...
EDIT: A quick visit to Gamefaqs and I noticed he came up with some fake FFXIIHD rumour that was on 2ch but happened to be deleted... Lol...
H_Prestige
Banned
I think that's just a side effect of not having a heavy story. The bosses just become like random mobs.
I'd say the best thing Versus shares in common with FFXII is Jun Akiyama.
I'm going to strongly agree with this - well, barring that stupid song at the end.
badcrumble
Member
Yeah, but I do think that a focus on the *why* of the boss fights would've provided some much-needed improvement to the game.
Yeah, the random bosses were a throwback to the SNES days when random powerful boss creatures just hung out in random caves and mountains.
At least FF12's bestiary tried to provide explanations as to why the creatures were there, though.
I get what you're saying, but you aren't being fair. FFXIII's characters were designed as if they were your next-door Joes, they weren't supposed to have a background other than their daily life tribulations. They weren't "chosen ones" or any of that anime crap, indeed. The emphasis on their pathos is justified if you take this point into consideration. Nonetheless it can also transpire as a damage-control, by the same line of thought they said the game's linearity is due to the cast being fugitives and constantly on the escape route, in danger as such.
Yeah, for example, I always found everyone hating on Hope pretty weird.
They complain when 15 year olds are suddenly super-hardened soldiers who can take beatings and face psyche-scarring horrors and happily go globe-trotting with strangers.
They complain when a 15 year old freaks out at these weird strangers and whines when he's hurt and complains about how he wishes he was back at home.
They complain when the 15 year old is just along for the ride and is just there as an extra body, not really relevant to the adults' plans or plotting or goals.
Like, there's really no pleasing ANYone.
Hint, hint: it's the same as the hate on Lightning, which is nothing but an unwarranted extension of the beef people have with the game as a whole, granted she remains its mascot. FFXIII shouldn't have been part of the series. It may be a terrible FF, it remains a great game itself.
Perhaps the best-translated game ever, in both written and spoken form.
May I ask an unrelated question? Why are single monsters called "mobs"? It seemed to start with this game, and even the Japanese original uses the word モブ. Where does this strange word come from?
They're just jealous Hope gets to smash Lightning in LR now.
Thanks for that; so it's from "mobile", is it? It's a pretty confusing word and I can't say I'm happy to see it having taken its place in the non-MUD lexicon.
Neither am I. Relating the term to FF was a terrible idea. Guess they are just trying to westernize the series as much as possible.
Besides, may I ask for how long are you fluent in Japanese? Studied it for three years in high-school, three years and a half ago, and I can tell my fluency is now completely diluted, as if I never got to learn it in the first place. It's almost as if I wouldn't be able to write all hiragana without the help of a learning book. I would still be able to go for a trip in Japan since my echoic memory is better than my visual/kinesthesis, but that's as far as it goes.
Besides, may I ask for how long are you fluent in Japanese? Studied it for three years in high-school, three years and a half ago, and I can tell my fluency is now completely diluted, as if I never got to learn it in the first place. It's almost as if I wouldn't be able to write all hiragana without the help of a learning book. I would still be able to go for a trip in Japan since my echoic memory is better than my visual/kinesthesis, but that's as far as it goes.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
XII was the best FF since VI.
Please Nomura, I'll forget you for your belt and zipper fetish if you keep borrowing from XII.
Yeah, seems a lot of people just want the whole ff cast to act like Auron or Balthier
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Well in vaans case, he would have been fine like that but he was forced as the main protagonist because they were afraid a 20 something protagonist would drive away customers.
So there is a case there.
It's because, quite frankly, the gamers that grew up on the SNES ff era are now 20 years older.
They are no longer the target demographic of 15 year old Japanese males.
This is not a pleasant concept to accept.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Black Door
Banned
People watch too many action movies where some dude goes from being an account clerk to an Ultramarine once someone gives him a gun
And he's right.
This is partially why people keep endlessly repeating FF6 as the best FF ever. Yes, it's very good, I love it too, but to act as if none of the others do aspects of it better is just...kind of sad, in a way. I mean, FF6 really WAS 20 years ago. There's 15 or so games since. Constantly declaring that none of them have the same quality is like taking objectivity out back, beating it senseless and warning it to never come by here again.
FF6 was a perfect storm, pushing the SNES era to its limits and giving the young gamers of the time an experience that cannot possibly be duplicated exactly. I am sure everyone can come up with other special youthful first time experience analogies as well. And the next...experiences, while good, are never quite the same as the first mindblowing one.
Outside of Noctis, all 3 of his friends are dressed pretty believably. In fact, I bet if you REMOVED Noctis, you could post that on a fashion forum as an ad for Versace's new "Maleather" line and people would accept it.
The 2011 version of Noctis looks less anime like.
Believable as real people.
Outside of Noctis the rest looks like your Japanese male hosts.
I still maintain Nomura frequents hosts clubs.
They would be very believable if the game starred a J-pop group saving the earth with their fashion sense.
And no I don't oppose pretty characters by default, but the design is a j-pop group. If the story somehow explains why they look like they do great! Japanese highschoolers saving the earth works in Persona games because the games are set in a highscool.
They look like a bunch of semi-rich dudes hanging out and probably going to the club later. Given all we've seen is them driving in their expensive car and talking with people in expensive mansions, nothing seems out of place if that is the general "fantasy mafia" theme.
And if you hate J-pop designs, you must've hated every FF since.....7?
Yes, but there is a difference between quality writing and not so quality writing, even for the younger audience. The first time I played Final Fantasy XIII I played it with a bunch of younger fellows and guess what, they were not impressed at all.
I was like "dem young scamps, don't appreciate dat Final Fantasy legacy" but then I realized there was not so much to defend about it.
And I don't think most people would want all the characters to act like Balthier or Auron. It just needs believable characters.
Couldn't have said it better myself. No doubt the series has gone downhill both in terms of writing and depth, but the ambition is still there: the series remains progressive. I know this is a touchy subject and that everyone may just be entitled to their own opinion at last, but by no mean XIII should be seen as a massive step back, rather it's a risky attempt at a FF merely story-driven, and it did that pretty well in my book since XIII & co. occupy no less than the third place in my FF rank; albeit the gap between it and VII/VIII remains very large. Same goes about Lightning: she is a great character herself, people just hate her because their dislike for the game heavily clouds their judgment.
So please, before taking cheap shots at Lightning and ultimately her fans, start by recognizing she is only one of the several reasons XIII doesn't hold up to your grumpy standards. F that, seriously.
I studied Japanese all four years in college and was semi-fluent when I came over as an exchange student back in 1998, and then came over for work after that, and have been here, speaking Japanese daily, for 13 years.
When I went to Austria more than a decade after studying German in high school, I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to communicate. On the train out of the airport I was struggling, but it came back more with each passing day, and a week into the trip I was happily babbling away. You'll be the same way!
Hope and Vaan were the two teenagers I had no problem with. If you're going to put a 15-year-old kid among your heroes, Hope's role is ideal. A kid who acts like a kid. Vaan, too; a kid from the streets who acts like who he is, and is surrounded by adults who take center stage in the bigger story that he finds himself in. That's the way you work a teenage character into an epic-scale video game.
I remember reading this and thinking of it as preemptive damage control for a game that Kitase must have known would be a huge turnoff to veteran fans. Contrast it with Hiroyuki Ito, who, in the post-FFXII interview in one of the Ultimanias, talked about how he specifically wanted to attract people who used to play the FF series but had drifted away from it.
(Come to think of it, it was G-Zay/Galvanization who got me to translate that interview back when IZJS came out. Same Ito fan, huh?)
They are friends of Noctis. Rich people like to dress fashionably. Don't see how this is such a huge insult of character design. No one gives a shit when it happens in, say, western action movies (yeah, the clothes the good guys in The Matrix are dressed in are definitely super-protective & easy to move in). That people dress that way in fiction of the action genre is nothing out of the ordinary.
Heh, the post you agree with mentions FFIV, which isn't well written nor does it have any depth. It's the worst written post NES FF, even FFXIII has better writing (deus ex machina & everything), apart from IV having a couple of cool characters.
Well, let's look at FF6.
One of the mains is an 18 year old "cold as ice" murderous army general who also happens to be an love-sick expert opera singer. Also, she's a traitor! But not really! Wait, she is! No, not really for real this time!
The scene where Sazh shoots himself felt as fake as the scene where Celes is about to stab the returners. I mean, you know neither is going to do it, no one did...awfully cliche, unbelievable writing and characters.
And I LIKE FF6. I've probably replayed it more than any other FF. But just about every single complaint about the writing of the later FFs makes an appearance in the earlier FFs.
H_Prestige
Banned
What exactly is strange about their outfits? It's the most down to earth design in a FF game yet. They're just wearing pants, shirts, and jackets. Noctis' outfit has been normalized as well.
I mean, do you want FF characters to dress in kmart clothes?