I had no idea Nomura was borrowing so much from FF12 for Versus…..

jaxword said:
And he's right.
Click to expand...

He really is. Final Fantasy is in line with (most) animes, Disney, Harry Potter and Twilight: (post)modern fairy tales. Consequentially it aims at catering to teens/young adults first and foremost. It's only natural the 25+ fold of the fan-base dislikes the direction the series is taking. What "worries" me tho is to see FF forums whose hive-mind adopts such antics, even though the average age is, like, 20. That's pretty much how Dissidia-France is, and I've been threatened of being banned there because I've transpired that much of a fan of Nomura. /stealth-brag

Hahaha wow... I've just realized GAF is my asylum.
 
jaxword said:
Well, let's look at FF6.

One of the mains is an 18 year old "cold as ice" murderous army general who also happens to be an love-sick expert opera singer. Also, she's a traitor! But not really! Wait, she is! No, not really for real this time!

The scene where Sazh shoots himself felt as fake as the scene where Celes is about to stab the returners. I mean, you know neither is going to do it, no one did...awfully cliche, unbelievable writing and characters.

And I LIKE FF6. I've probably replayed it more than any other FF. But just about every single complaint about the writing of the later FFs makes an appearance in the earlier FFs.
Click to expand...

I believe there is a healthy amount of sillyness in every title and I played Final Fantasy VI the first time last year, so no nostalgia goggles.

But still, there is constant cheese in Final Fantasy XIII.
 
H_Prestige said:
What exactly is strange about their outfits? It's the most down to earth design in a FF game yet. They're just wearing pants, shirts, and jackets. Noctis' outfit has been normalized as well.

I mean, do you want FF characters to dress in kmart clothes?
Click to expand...

That example is even placeholder as well, but the final designs look like normal... albeit expensive... clothes.
 
Dunan said:
Hope and Vaan were the two teenagers I had no problem with. If you're going to put a 15-year-old kid among your heroes, Hope's role is ideal. A kid who acts like a kid. Vaan, too; a kid from the streets who acts like who he is, and is surrounded by adults who take center stage in the bigger story that he finds himself in. That's the way you work a teenage character into an epic-scale video game.
Click to expand...

I agree. Many other JRPGs and Manga just have teenage (14, 15 year olds) who are by virtue overpowered characters who don't get fazed by anything. I hace no idea why people found Hope annoying when he was crying about his dead mum. His mum just died! What did people expect him to do?

(Come to think of it, it was G-Zay/Galvanization who got me to translate that interview back when IZJS came out. Same Ito fan, huh?)
Click to expand...

I think that was before he became crazy. And got progressively worse as Itou remains in the basement.
 
Twilight Princess said:
hmm, i was thinking, if noctis is the sauce, does that make stella naruto???
Click to expand...

Referring to this?

noctis_stella2.png
 
Mr. RHC said:
Maybe they. are. family ♫.

Hehe, thinking of artwork, I believe Noctis is not in Dissidia isn't he? Would be interesting to see what their character artwork would look like.
Click to expand...
Parents broke up five years after the birth of the cadet.

Noctis is in Dissidia only in the form of avatars. Still, fans made Dissidia-like artworks of him, and they don't have to blush in front of the original. Check out the segment called Dissidia Aces: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=510727
 
Narolf said:
He really is. Final Fantasy is in line with (most) animes, Disney, Harry Potter and Twilight: (post)modern fairy tales. Consequentially it aims at catering to teens/young adults first and foremost. It's only natural the 25+ fold of the fan-base dislikes the direction the series is taking. What "worries" me tho is to see FF forums whose hive-mind adopts such antics, even though the average age is, like, 20. That's pretty much how Dissidia-France is, and I've been threatened of being banned there because I've transpired that much of a fan of Nomura. /stealth-brag
Click to expand...

I don't quite agree with this, because there's no inherent trait in the tone of earlier FFs that differentiates them all that much from the newer ones. What makes something like FFVI "more 25+ oriented" than FFXII? I kinda doubt the individuals who "grew out of FF" are gonna be found hanging out on some forum dedicated to the franchise.

I think the actual heart of the problem has much less to do with the age demographic itself and is really more a result of this exaggerated sense of nostalgia that mistakenly causes people like this to believe the quality of more recent titles can't be achieved, when in reality it's their own unique experiences they're failing to replicate. It may also partially have to do with a distaste for Nomura's character designs, and while I admittedly can't blame them for that, it's silly to extend that sort of dislike to the entire game.
 
God fucking damn. You just made another day to me.

Everything is connected. EVERYTHING. IS ALL I KNOW AN ILLUSION. WHAT IS GOING ON. WHERE IS THE LIGHT. WHERE IS THE TRUTH. ,^lc; inkp m cbh igkn vCwj l,n ;vv bcu jo*l,./ v cw uj l?/ w àj l,:v cwi
inpk m,:vd

F that.
 
I even remember the context. It was about Nomuras designs all looking the same or some shit. Inspired by Cloud-Lightning san.
 
zoukka said:
I even remember the context. It was about Nomuras designs all looking the same or some shit. Inspired by Cloud-Lightning san.
Click to expand...
It's not always the artists fault if they do. Nomura isn't the one doing the 3d models. If they decide to skimp out on modelling different faces, that's not really Nomura's fault. At least Nomura goes from designing more realistic characters like Noctis to more mature-ish anime style (FFVII) to the kiddy-shonen kind (Kingdom Hearts).

I mean, Amano's characters all look the same as well. And male characters are way more feminine than anything Nomura has ever designed. Of course Amano's style is more elaborate otherwise (dat FFVI cover art).
 
Some character designs by the same designers have some similarities. I think it comes up in the eyes, especially. But these designers are usually used to drawing in a particular style so yeah. I think Nomura does have range though.
 
Carlov said:
I kinda doubt the individuals who "grew out of FF" are gonna be found hanging out on some forum dedicated to the franchise.
Click to expand...
Lol... they actually are. Everything I brought up about the Lightning hate has been taken from Twitter, and from conversations between GAFfers I've lurked, no less. At the end of the day, importing the kind of talk they are holding in the shadows by providing links onto GAF would most likely have got me banned because they are far from being bad guys, without a shadow of doubt. It's that the Internet allows people to be more negative in general because they get to hide their faces behind monitors. However, there do remain actual punks out there, and I don't hesitate to call them out publicly if they start antagonizing my friends or me as the two FF Community threads would inform those aware. I don't expect myself to antagonize with a fellow GAFfer in this day and age... disagreeing, yes; but not antagonizing.

The FF-fanbase is split into three categories.

 
I don't think Lightning is a terrible character, and I don't get people who think she is. She's just not a great character either.
 
Rubbish comparison for obvious reasons that would take too long to list. You can figure them on your own by putting some thought into it.

To add to what I have said earlier, the greatest negativity also seems to come from those who are the least informed... which doesn't help.
 
Narolf said:
Rubbish comparison for obvious reasons that would take too long to list. You can figure them on your own by putting some thought into it.
Click to expand...

No thanks. Instead, I would suggest that you learn to live with opinions that differ from your own; It'll make posting on message boards a lot easier for you.
 
badcrumble said:
I don't think Lightning is a terrible character, and I don't get people who think she is. She's just not a great character either.
Click to expand...

Square-Enix could learn a thing or two from Naughty Dog in how to portray a likable character. That is, your protagonist shouldn't be so one-dimensional. i.e., Nathan Drake is a lighthearted character, but throw him into a variety of scenarios, and he's vindictive, heroic, disappointed, ecstatic, compassionate, conniving, etc.

Lightning on the other hand, is angry or stoic 95% of FF13. She develops relationships with supporting cast members throughout the game, but even then, her range of emotion is in the realm of robotic. I've been playing FF13 for the past two weeks, and I cannot remember a time I've seen her character smile.

I mean, I don't think Lightning is the worst character SE has churned out. It's refreshing in some ways to see a strong female protagonist. Personality-wise though, she's really... bland. Kind of like her games. I'm not saying they should have weakened her in any way, but she would have been a little easier to identify with if she wasn't in a constant state of anger/vindication/stoicism/depression.
 
Narolf said:
Rubbish comparison for obvious reasons that would take too long to list.
Click to expand...

As I've clarified earlier, I'm in total disagreement with everyone crying that the series went to shit after a certain game. But surely we're not actually defending XIII, are we?
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
No thanks. Instead, I would suggest that you learn to live with opinions that differ from your own; It'll make posting on message boards a lot easier for you.
Click to expand...
Yo, nothing to be passive aggressive about.

The comparison is unwarranted because of all the progressivism that characterizes the series I've mentioned before, each FF being its own thing. That doesn't mean you aren't allowed to compare them, no. Hell, the meat and potatoes of FF fan-sites has always been that, and I personally owe a lot to this world of arguments of SNES vs PS1 vs Modern or Nomura vs Amano and the like, but it doesn't change the fact they technically remain unwarranted comparisons, moreover whenever they are done between episodes that haven't been made by the same developers team. A comparison between VII and VIII makes much more sense than one between XII and XIII in that respect.

Carlov said:
As I've clarified earlier, I'm in total disagreement with everyone crying that the series went to shit after a certain game. But surely we're not actually defending XIII, are we?
Click to expand...

FFXIII & co. are my third favorite FF, even though the gap between them and VII/VIII remains very large. Yep.

tumblr_ma0uo9Z3E81qcpct6o1_500.gif

Chances are, Versus will take the spot.
 
It's okay. I've quit my ami phase three weeks ago, I actively seek the Light now; fresh, calm, with tolerance and ultimately level-headed.
 
Shadow780 said:
The Kids are Alright.
XIII was a good game, at the end of the day I think it can stand within the series.
Click to expand...

Regardless of whether people liked/disliked the game, I think most of us are still excited for the future of the series. Especially with that "Agni's Philosophy" tech demo.

Edit: Also I agree with you, in that we didn't need two more XIII's. We just needed one, and that one is Versus, haha.
 
I do hope the inspiration from FF12 is limited to the stunning art direction and realistic inhabitants, and not to the battle system, the "stops two minutes after it truly starts" story arc, or the skills system, because I truly hated all of that.

I need to replay FF12. I was so angry at the experience after I finished it, and shortly thereafter my PS2 broke, so I've been unable to get my customary second, third, tenth playthroughs of that installment in the series.
 
jaxword said:
Yeah, for example, I always found everyone hating on Hope pretty weird.

They complain when 15 year olds are suddenly super-hardened soldiers who can take beatings and face psyche-scarring horrors and happily go globe-trotting with strangers.

They complain when a 15 year old freaks out at these weird strangers and whines when he's hurt and complains about how he wishes he was back at home.

They complain when the 15 year old is just along for the ride and is just there as an extra body, not really relevant to the adults' plans or plotting or goals.

Like, there's really no pleasing ANYone.
Click to expand...

Solution #1: DON'T INCLUDE ANNOYING 15 YEAR OLD CHARACTERS. If it's ALWAYS been hated, maybe stop it? Hope gets hate because he goes from being a normal 15 year old to amazingly overdramatic. Vaan gets hate mostly for his design and irrelevance, since redesigns and tweaks to his character have been more favorably received outside FF12. You who doesn't get the same hate? Palom, because Palom isn't annoying.

It's not the age, it's the fact that these people are poor representations of the age and annoyances to the plot. People like to say "He's annoying because that's how kids his age are! I know because I work with kids!" To which I must respond: you can make a kid annoying and representative of his age and come off natural, or you can make someone like Hope who only isn't the worst character in XIII because Snow exists.
 
bennyc12 said:
Square-Enix could learn a thing or two from Naughty Dog in how to portray a likable character. That is, your protagonist shouldn't be so one-dimensional. i.e., Nathan Drake is a lighthearted character, but throw him into a variety of scenarios, and he's vindictive, heroic, disappointed, ecstatic, compassionate, conniving, etc.

Lightning on the other hand, is angry or stoic 95% of FF13. She develops relationships with supporting cast members throughout the game, but even then, her range of emotion is in the realm of robotic. I've been playing FF13 for the past two weeks, and I cannot remember a time I've seen her character smile.

I mean, I don't think Lightning is the worst character SE has churned out. It's refreshing in some ways to see a strong female protagonist. Personality-wise though, she's really... bland. Kind of like her games. I'm not saying they should have weakened her in any way, but she would have been a little easier to identify with if she wasn't in a constant state of anger/vindication/stoicism/depression.
Click to expand...

Spot on, but it goes for a lot of jrpg protagonist. Its hard to single out Square, or even Lightning. We see people champion the likes of Auron, while ragging on Snow, Sazh or Vaan. People don't want to admit they seemingly want one-dimensional characters, at least when its a solitary mindset they see as cool or whatever. Its a much more superficial choice than what people try to dress it up as.

These threads always ended up painted by the extremes. I find it hard to believe any one could claim to be a fan of the series, and still declare some games trash.
 
Cagey said:
I do hope the inspiration from FF12 is limited to the stunning art direction and realistic inhabitants, and not to the battle system, the "stops two minutes after it truly starts" story arc, or the skills system, because I truly hated all of that.

I need to replay FF12. I was so angry at the experience after I finished it, and shortly thereafter my PS2 broke, so I've been unable to get my customary second, third, tenth playthroughs of that installment in the series.
Click to expand...


The inspiration for Versus is based only on the realism of the characters /mannerisms /interactions and the scope of the world, if the wiki article is to be believed. Nothing even remotely close to gambits or the license board will be in place in Versus. Expect something similar to the KH2-esque battle system we saw in the gameplay trailer back in 2011.
 
Mxrz said:
These threads always ended up painted by the extremes. I find it hard to believe any one could claim to be a fan of the series, and still declare some games trash.
Click to expand...
They would answer it's precisely because they are that dedicated to the series they can't stand the direction it takes. Thing is, their naivety (as in nostalgia) usually clouds their foresight. How many of you have replayed FFVII recently without leaving it somewhat disappointed?
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
The inspiration for Versus is based only on the realism of the characters /mannerisms /interactions and the scope of the world, if the wiki article is to be believed. Nothing even remotely close to gambits or the license board will be in place in Versus.
Click to expand...

See where I was coming from? It wasn't a matter of opinions as you put it. Your thread is a shining proof a comparison between XII and Versus would be warranted. The team behind may not be the same, both games most likely share similarities in their creative processes.
 
I think the kids thing is a silly argument. There are great kids in games (see Clementine from The Walking Dead and Nanako from Persona). Hell, even FF has had some great kids (Vivi and Eiko to a lesser extent come to mind).

Badly written characters are badly written, regardless of age.
 
Badly written characters are badly written, regardless of age.
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

It's the same as comparing games intrinsically, as per according to their creative processes/development teams... their level of creativity in a word (which is something Kagari did a few pages ago) and comparing games on the surface, resorting to emotions and judgments. Jumped down on Ghost_Protocol's throat for that reason, but I remain very Internet? Serious Business/thread-clinging in the first place.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

I think it would be awesome to get 343 and Bungie back together for a new Halo game, borrowing lessons learned from Destiny
25
869
ResilientBanana replied
I Realize Why I Love Mass Effect So Much....
40
2K
chakadave replied
I bought Funko Fusion for the PS5... I had my reason.
7
530
Blank Space Invader replied
So how much are you willing to pay?
2 3
106
3K
vodka-bull replied
The Phone market as a platform has so much wasted potential
26
975
od-chan replied
Top Bottom