ClassyPenguin
Banned
uh, he has a mental illness and that he used the ambulance in a justifiable way. Seriously, what the fuck?
The bootstrap mentality is just...so wrong.
The bootstrap mentality is just...so wrong.
I just got threatened to be sent to collections because I can't pay for an ambulance
- Thread starter KevinCow
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Open Source
Banned
No, the mentality where you spend your money on entertaining yourself instead of on obvious necessities like health insurance is wrong.
In Open Source's mind - this isn't any sort of evidence that the system is broken. It's evidence that people are wretched filthy freeloading creatures.
It also assumes that the price is only ~50% more than in other countries, and those other countries never have people that don't pay.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Sadly there will always be some people that don't see the truth. The healthcare system in this country is broken. It needs to be fixed but sadly it's going to be a long long time before we truly fix it and give everyone the healthcare they so rightfully deserve.
Angry Fork
Member
Can people stop pretending they don't know America's system is fucked up, and then making jokes about it because it's so bad compared to their own countries. Americans know this, it's miserable and we can't do anything about it. The pointing and laughing at people not being able to afford surviving after an accident is really infuriating.
The worst is when people make posts about Americans being stupid because they won't revolt or protest in order to fix things, as if people didn't know this or it were that easy. Yes many of us would love to have the NHS or something similar, stop reminding us how good it is. It's like kicking someone while they're down.
The worst is when people make posts about Americans being stupid because they won't revolt or protest in order to fix things, as if people didn't know this or it were that easy. Yes many of us would love to have the NHS or something similar, stop reminding us how good it is. It's like kicking someone while they're down.
Open Source
Banned
I did read the whole thread. Guy wants to spend his money on video games instead of health insurance, has no clue about his health insurance coverage like any adult should. Is depressed but is capable of holding down a job (post history).
The system sucks. It's broken because it's a mangled patchwork of mandates, free rides and/or great coverage for a select few at the expense of everyone else - and that "everyone else" is often a group that can't afford that expense. It's not the fault of the people in the system using it to their benefit. That is just what humans do. It's the fault of the people who designed the system, who fail to understand the backwardness of the systems and incentives they create.
Still, you should do what it takes to survive within the system until it changes. If you're too helpless to make very basic decisions like planning ahead for health care expenses instead of blowing any money you have on entertainment, then maybe you should be treated like a child, with that money taken away and spent for you. You can't have it both ways.
The system sucks. It's broken because it's a mangled patchwork of mandates, free rides and/or great coverage for a select few at the expense of everyone else - and that "everyone else" is often a group that can't afford that expense. It's not the fault of the people in the system using it to their benefit. That is just what humans do. It's the fault of the people who designed the system, who fail to understand the backwardness of the systems and incentives they create.
Still, you should do what it takes to survive within the system until it changes. If you're too helpless to make very basic decisions like planning ahead for health care expenses instead of blowing any money you have on entertainment, then maybe you should be treated like a child, with that money taken away and spent for you. You can't have it both ways.
Open Source
Banned
Also, uninsured ambulance transport in places like France and Australia is roughly the same as in the U.S. I had a friend vacationing in France whose ambulance ride was over $3000, and in Australia it's roughly $1000, more outside cities.
Hey, when you get free healthcare, stubbing your toe isn't such a big deal.
Ah, I feel bad for you guys.
I don't know a single person (family, friends, coworkers...) who is uninsured (I'm french).
My father has hands problems, back pains (he has just been operated for a herniated disc last week); results of a life of difficult works. If he had to pay thousands of euros for each of his ambulance rides, my parents would be in the streets right now, and he's sparing a lot.
We're thankful for our social security.
Ace Harding
Member
Thing is, we (U.S.) do have a de facto NHS. If you need care, you'll get it. We just have a really fucked up way of paying for it. Very high premiums, very costly services for those that can and are willing to pay for them. Too many uninsured people, either because they can't afford it, their employers can't afford it, or their employers just aren't willing to pay for it.
It's really, really messed up.
Also, recognize that Obamacare isn't the only solution to the problem. I'm not vouching for them, but the Republicans have proposed alternative solutions, and they generally also think the current system is fucked up as well. The vast majority of people (including politicians) don't think and aren't saying that our current system is fine.
It's really, really messed up.
Also, recognize that Obamacare isn't the only solution to the problem. I'm not vouching for them, but the Republicans have proposed alternative solutions, and they generally also think the current system is fucked up as well. The vast majority of people (including politicians) don't think and aren't saying that our current system is fine.
I love debating the NHS with my ultra conservative family. Basically the only point I ever bring up is that for insurance to work everyone who uses the service has to pay into the risk pool. So that leaves two options if we don't want an NHS. 1 is to require people to have insurance. 2 is to let sick people who can't pay die on the steps of hospitals....
They generally don't like either of those options. Lol
They generally don't like either of those options. Lol
I think people's major gripe with this is "who pays for the people who can't afford to have insurance even though it's required".
He lives with his mom and is covered as a dependent under her insurance plan. He HAS insurance, but unfortunately he has a deductible. He is not indigent or without coverage. He just has a high deductible. He should pay off his deductible over time and then pay his cost-share, be it in the form of coinsurance or copay.
shira
Member
You are lucky sir. I think the new standard is 3 minutes/patient
I would. Being rich in America is awesome.
LOL, it's not that bad.
Spoilers : Being rich in any country is awesome. Well, not those third world countries i suppose.
Oppo
Member
He said 50%, but I believe the exact figure he was reaching for was that 47% of the country wants a free ride. I can't quite remember where I heard that figure, but it was spoken by someone very authoritative.
reggieandTFE
Member
I know Ambulance rides aren't covered by insurance plans in Illinois like any other type of care. I have a "Cadillac" Union health insurance plan where I only had to pay my out of pocket maximum of $1500 for a $130,000 bill from a sledding accident that involved a week long stay in the ICU. However, I still ended up havin to pay for both ambulance rides separately out of pocket.
Also, you should have exercised your free market rights and chosen a cheaper ambulance company!
Also, you should have exercised your free market rights and chosen a cheaper ambulance company!
A true GAF'er.
Well. My main point there is that we already pay for them through higher bills for insurance and medical services. I think they are both shit options honestly and it should be something that should be taxed separately by the federal government and provided to all citizens. I've heard many stats that actually show that the amount taken out of your check would actually be less with the tax than your monthly bill for insurance.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Can someone from the US tell me how expensive are private healthcare coverage plans out there? I assume they are "pay fixed amount, get covered up to $XYZ per year" type? So it's like insurance?
Every time I read about someone paying 5000$ for staying a few hours in hospital I have to check if it's not a joke.
Every time I read about someone paying 5000$ for staying a few hours in hospital I have to check if it's not a joke.
Zoe
Member
It is insurance. Most plans have copays, a deductible to hit, and a maximum out of pocket per year.
Averages here: http://ehbs.kff.org/?page=charts&id=1&sn=6&p=1
If you're getting coverage through work, the employer pays some of the premium. The average for that is on another page.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Ok, I understand this is the very base amount:
Hmm, this is just for health coverage, it is not money given for retirement, is it? I actually think Europe is comparable, if people want I can tell you when I get home and find my payslip how much I am giving out for Social Security in Germany.
Duane Cunningham
Member
It's also why I'm not currently going to the doctor even though the right side of my jaw has been hurting like hell for the past couple of weeks and clearly has something wrong with it. Even though I have insurance through work and am in good standing with it, going in will result in months of debt.
Castor Krieg
Banned
But you have insurance, so how is it possible to get in debt?
Co pays and high deductible maybe
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. Sounds like normal. That's our healthcare system for you.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Blue Submarine No. 6
Member
When my daughter was ill and required brain surgery 8 years ago, the only expenses I incurred over several ambulance rides, endless tests and consultations, and the actual surgeries, during a 3 month stay in the what is widely regarded as one of the best Children's Hospitals in the world, was parking and food for myself. They even provided us with a cot in her room so my wife or I would be with her at all times.
Health care in the United States is scary broken...
A lot of insurance has what's called a high deductible. Say you sign up for a family plan with a 5k deductible. The first 5k in medical bills for the year is all on you. After that the insurance pays the rest generally at 100% up to a maximum payout. Some plans have an 80/20 co pay meaning that for whatever you go get the insurance pays 80% an you pay 20% (those numbers can vary by plan.) The problem arises when say something really bad happens and your charged 100k for your stay, well you have to come up wih 20k for that which most people don't just have laying around.
Zoe
Member
He would probably have to pay something like $30 to get it checked out. If the doctor determines something needs to be done, he would have to pay off his deductible (anywhere from a few hundred to a few thousand) before insurance coverage kicks in. (it should be noted that even if the deductible hasn't been paid off yet, the amount you would have to pay is usually negotiated to a lower amount than if you didn't have insurance)
Depending on the dates of his plan year (I'm assuming Jan-Dec), it would be beneficial to hold off on treatment until the new year starts because the deductible resets each year. I don't see a reason to hold off on getting it checked out though.
Jesus... brain surgery at 8? Would been scared as hell if it was my kids
Hope everything went fine!
Grimm Fandango
Member
Dude that's asinine. That's a long time. Go to a doctor, not a hospital if you're worried.
The us has a similar thing for children in most larger cities. Here in KC it's called children's mercy hospital. In Los Angeles I believe it's the Mattel children's hospital. I don't think they generally charge anything if you don't have insurance. They will charge your insurance though I think.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Thanks a lot for answers. This is mighty retarded - you pay premium and STILL has to pay up to a certain limit? Shouldn't it work the opposite way - covered up to a certain amount, then you pay from your own pocket?
Why would it be beneficial to hold off on treatment till the New Year? If you already incurred other costs since January would it be better to have it treated the same calendar year = less amount required to reach the deductible limit = less money to pay from your own pocket?
Zoe
Member
It's pretty typical for insurance.
Grimm Fandango
Member
That's one way plans can work. Generally if you pay a higher deductible, you pay a lower premium (better for people who rarely get sick or few medical conditions).
Zoe
Member
Let's say it takes 6 months to treat at $500 a month and your 2013 deductible is $2000, so if you start treatment in January, you pay $2000 out of pocket. However, if you start treatment in December, you'll end up paying $2500 out of pocket because that treatment in December went towards your 2012 deductible.
Its the same in Sweden (SOCALIST DEVILS COUNTRY) that oyu have to pay "self risk or called självrisk in Swedish) which is around 150Euro.
Butn my house down? 150Euro.
Kids broke your TV while chasings the dog? 150Euro.
Throw your kids and dog in the burning house and lose your watch in said house? 150Euro.
Butn my house down? 150Euro.
Kids broke your TV while chasings the dog? 150Euro.
Throw your kids and dog in the burning house and lose your watch in said house? 150Euro.
Castor Krieg
Banned
Your way would make insurance unless for catastrophic situations and only useful for common medical cost.
It depend on what kind of insurance you're looking for.
A a healthy person who rarely goes to the doctor except for a yearly checkup (free with most insurance plans) then you want a low premium high deductible insurance plan since you only plan on using the insurance when something horrendous happens that cost tens of thousands in medical cost.
For an elderly person who plans on going to the doctor a lot or for a new born baby. You want a high premium, low deductible insurance plan.
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