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"I need a New PC!" 2012 Thread. Ivy, SSDs, and reading the OP. [Part 2]

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I'm having trouble getting my ISO file that I made to work with the microsoft usb dvd tool.
Not sure where it went wrong.

Edit: Maybe it's because it's my school's Webstore CD, and not the official Windows DVD.
Or maybe the type of ISO I'm creating?
 

Xdrive05

Member
Need PC audio help, GAF. MUCHO gracias. :)

Okay, so I have some Turtle Beach headphones (3.5mm jack + USB), and I just bought my first HDMI monitor with speakers. How do I easily switch back and forth between the two for the audio output?

The long way as I've discovered is to pick whichever one I want to use in Windows Audio Devices and right-click it > Set as default device. But that's annoying when I'm in a game.

I do have Reaktek HD Audio Manager, but that doesn't seem to do anything for me that Windows Audio Devices can't.

Is there an easier way I can switch between the output devices, or even have both devices outputting at the same time (a little less ideal but I would take it)?
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Need PC audio help, GAF. MUCHO gracias. :)

Okay, so I have some Turtle Beach headphones (3.5mm jack + USB), and I just bought my first HDMI monitor with speakers. How do I easily switch back and forth between the two for the audio output?

The long way as I've discovered is to pick whichever one I want to use in Windows Audio Devices and right-click it > Set as default device. But that's annoying when I'm in a game.

I do have Reaktek HD Audio Manager, but that doesn't seem to do anything for me that Windows Audio Devices can't.

Is there an easier way I can switch between the output devices, or even have both devices outputting at the same time (a little less ideal but I would take it)?

I never really end up doing switching in game but if I did, I would alt tab out. If I played a game on HDMI out with audio I stayed there. And I recall that once you fully started a game, there wasn't a way to switch the out on the game until you fully exited it. I either game with the TB headset like you or I don't. I wouldn't sweat over a little thing like that.
 

Shambles

Member
Back in the OP, it recommends the SS sensai has best mouse. Anyone has any experience using claw grip on it?

Long shot : Any lefty claw grip user?

I currently have a Logi G3 but I need a new mouse at work, this Dell BS is destroying my hand.

Got one for my wife and I seem to like it fairly well. I have large hands so I find it comfortable enough. With her smaller hands she ends up with more of a palm grip on it. Although on the other hand I'm not much of a mouse snob. I have no problem running with $10 Dell mice.

How does the CM 690ii Advanced do in your eyes?

I still love mine although this will likely be the last mid-tower case I buy. Just make sure you get the USB 3.0 revision of the 690. Down the road all the boxes in my house will turn into mATX or mITX. For my needs there's just no point in not making things more compact.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Just a heads up that a couple of computer peripherals are on sale today including the Steel Series Sensei for $57.99.

Edit: I should mention it is on Amazon.

Thanks, well, I ordered a black Steel Series headset for 90$ earlier today and the white one I wanted came back in stock and is 20$ cheaper. It didn't ship yet so i was able to cancel.
 

MysticX

Member
is an upgrade from 6770 -> 7870 GAFprooved?

hm, maybe 660 is better

I play LOTRO alot :) which should suit better for that game?
 
I'm having trouble getting my ISO file that I made to work with the microsoft usb dvd tool.
Not sure where it went wrong.

Edit: Maybe it's because it's my school's Webstore CD, and not the official Windows DVD.
Or maybe the type of ISO I'm creating?

Quoting myself here.

I think I found a way around the usual Microsoft program. Much easier.

http://www.guidingtech.com/10026/create-bootable-windows-8-usb-drive-iso-image/

:) what if we include this in the OT, I'll see if it does indeed work.


Nvm, nothing works. ;_; I cry
 
Watch this video.


Swiftech H220 Showcase & REAL-WORLD Performance & Silence Demo Linus Tech Tips CES 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZgctchIQ7M


Intel i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz

OYYmx.png









In other news, Oracle gonna Oracle. Again. Unless you need it for work, disable Java if you still have it installed.

New malware exploiting Java 7 in Windows and Unix systems
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_...xploiting-java-7-in-windows-and-unix-systems/

Oracle Knew of Latest Java 0-Day Security Hole in August 2012
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/...-properly-fix-old-one-now-pushing-ransomware/

US-CERT: Disable Java in browsers because of exploit
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9235615/US_CERT_Disable_Java_in_browsers_because_of_exploit

The US-CERT security warning said the agency is "unaware of a practical solution to this problem."

Instead, US-CERT recommended Internet users disable Java in browsers. US-CERT is part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Not even kidding, I just logged back on GAF to post the same thing. Hah.

Probably a low power MCP35x pump, and they make great blocks. Those fans that are on it, the Swiftech Helix, are really really nice too. They're essentially Gentle Typhoon AP-15s for all intents and purposes. Very quiet, crazy amount of air, crazy amount of static pressure.

You see the Silverstone and Lian Li stuff too?
Quoting myself here.

I think I found a way around the usual Microsoft program. Much easier.

http://www.guidingtech.com/10026/create-bootable-windows-8-usb-drive-iso-image/

:) what if we include this in the OT, I'll see if it does indeed work.


Nvm, nothing works. ;_; I cry
At what point during the process is everything failing?
 
At what point during the process is everything failing?

I've made an image ISO of my CD (that is not official, but says webstore.illinois).

Taking the ISO, I've tried the Microsoft mover, which gave me: "The selected file is not a valid ISO file. Please select a valid ISO file and try again"

I tried other ISO to USB programs, and another failed, and two of them seemed to work, except the process ended in 5 seconds and nothing appeared on the flash drive.
I'm using a microSD on a USB microSD reader.
 
Heh. Figures, Kenyon.
Conflicting info from different Swiftech reps, though. Either a MCP35x that maxes out at 3,000rpm, or it's a custom in-house design which is very similar in performance at the same pump speed. Either way, it's optimized for silent performance and, unless there's a catch of some type (poor QC, manufacturing defect, secretly plotting to steal your soul, etc.), very good value.

I don't see how you buy any other dual rad in this class, Eisberg included (which Cooler Master screwed up massively, in terms of customer service), even though I prefer the Eisberg's Alphacool ST30 rad.

Helix 120s are very high on my rec. list of affordable fans. Great performance and noise to boot. Haven't been exposed to the Helix 140s yet.

Yeah, I see SilverStone still has that HEPA filter concept case they've been lugging around forever now. I have some old pics of it somewhere, but IIRC it still looks the same, and hasn't made any progress (???). Still a rough pre-production unit. Liking the PC-V850, but worried Lian Li has come up short on overall usability and flexibility like with the V750. We'll see.

Probaly two of the more surprising things to come out of this dull show, case wise, are Thermaltake's Urban series and the no show of the Fractal Design Arc XL. Not a fan of most TT's due to garish designs and poor build quality compared to class leaders (from ~$45 on up), but the Urbans could be promising. Fractal has had the Arc XL for several months, but I guess the current focus is the Define XL R2 launch. Haven't seen the Arc XL roof up close, but if it has native 480mm support and, less likely, the Arc R2 has native 360mm support, every other maker is in for trouble.
 

DTKT

Member
Weird question but, is "humming" from a cooler fan something all fans have? I have the stock Hyper 212 fan and it makes that weird sound at high RPM. It's weird, it's not the usual "woosh" sound, it's a bit more high-pitched than that.

I was wondering if a Corsair SP120mm would have the same issue, or maybe that one
 
Dang, was gonna suggest you just pull one out.

I'd try some google-fu, maybe there is some copy protection?

Pull... one out?! O.O maybe I can rip out my old, old, Dell one and use it!

Gotcha, my search will continue, and I'm asking my friends to see if they have an external I

can borrow, haha. Thanks!
 
·feist·;46331010 said:
Watch this video.


Swiftech H220 Showcase & REAL-WORLD Performance & Silence Demo Linus Tech Tips CES 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZgctchIQ7M


Intel i7 3770K @ 4.6GHz











In other news, Oracle gonna Oracle. Again. Unless you need it for work, disable Java if you still have it installed.

New malware exploiting Java 7 in Windows and Unix systems
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_...xploiting-java-7-in-windows-and-unix-systems/

Oracle Knew of Latest Java 0-Day Security Hole in August 2012
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/...-properly-fix-old-one-now-pushing-ransomware/

US-CERT: Disable Java in browsers because of exploit
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9235615/US_CERT_Disable_Java_in_browsers_because_of_exploit

Don't know if I should be impressed with those temps because I have a 3570k oc'd at 4.7ghz and when I run intel burn test at max I get a max temp of 88 to 90c with my H60. I would think that cooler would do better than those temps.
 

Ty4on

Member
Don't know if I should be impressed with those temps because I have a 3570k oc'd at 4.7ghz and when I run intel burn test at max I get a max temp of 88 to 90c with my H60. I would think that cooler would do better than those temps.

Rad is similar size, but more importantly Ivy Bridge is reaaaaally hard to cool which is why temps are so similar. If a CPU has a good transfer of heat then the water will heat up more and it's up to the rads to cool it.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Don't know if I should be impressed with those temps because I have a 3570k oc'd at 4.7ghz and when I run intel burn test at max I get a max temp of 88 to 90c with my H60. I would think that cooler would do better than those temps.
In addition to what Ty4on says above, possible variables:

-Ambient Temp
-TIM
-Mount quality
-Core Voltage

In any case, 20C is a pretty huge difference.
 

Ty4on

Member
In addition to what Ty4on says above, possible variables:

-Ambient Temp
-TIM
-Mount quality
-Core Voltage

In any case, 20C is a pretty huge difference.

I was wondering if Ivy can go to 5Ghz on a custom water loop? It kinda seems as if it cannot go further without cooling the liquid.
 

Noaloha

Member
This probably belongs in 'Stupid Questions' but forgive me: I'm a PC user who doesn't know an awful lot and takes a bunch of things for granted.

This Java thing, is it of serious concern? If so, is there a simple, toggle-able way to disable the thing? All I could find was a flat-out UNINSTALL option.
 
Newegg has an awesome Shell Shocker (limited-time offer) right now: CORSAIR CX430M 430W ATX12V v2.3 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply for $25 after a $20 rebate.

That's the cheapest I've ever seen a low-wattage modular power supply, and it's 80+ Bronze so not terrible on efficiency either. Reviews for the non-modular version are pretty good; I'd have jumped on this when I was building my gf's low-powered small form factor PC a few weeks ago if I'd seen this deal then!
 
Windows 8 installation worked! PowerIso worked to move my ISO to my USB :)
horray!

btw, looking around BIOS from before, if one of my cha_fans are about 100rpm lower then the other, what can be wrong?
 

scogoth

Member
I was wondering if Ivy can go to 5Ghz on a custom water loop? It kinda seems as if it cannot go further without cooling the liquid.

You can if you de lid it. The biggest issue is there a substantial gap between the heat spreader and chip with a huge glop of TIM. It just can't dissipate heat well enough hence the "heat wall" effect. Intel needs to go back to solder for Haswell.
 

kharma45

Member
Interesting video this of the AMD FX 8350 vs Intel 3570K vs 3770K vs 3820 in gaming and streaming tests, quite surprising...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE

Worth a watch, be interested in your views guys. Test rigs and benchmarks through the link.

The guy who did the test is epicpants in this Reddit thread answering questions http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/16cwmw/its_time_to_rethink_everthing/

Appears he'll be using the 670 in another round of tests, as well as overclocking them all too.
 

scogoth

Member
Interesting video this of the AMD FX 8350 vs Intel 3570K vs 3770K vs 3820 in gaming and streaming tests, quite surprising...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE

Worth a watch, be interested in your views guys. Test rigs and benchmarks through the link.

The guy who did the test is epicpants in this Reddit thread answering questions http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/16cwmw/its_time_to_rethink_everthing/

Appears he'll be using the 670 in another round of tests, as well as overclocking them all too.

I'm still not sold till I see a break down of frame rates. Average frame rate does nothing for me now. Not to mention it was back and forth depending on game, resolution and streaming or not. Interesting but definitely not conclusive
 

mkenyon

Banned
Interesting video this of the AMD FX 8350 vs Intel 3570K vs 3770K vs 3820 in gaming and streaming tests, quite surprising...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE

Worth a watch, be interested in your views guys. Test rigs and benchmarks through the link.

The guy who did the test is epicpants in this Reddit thread answering questions http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/16cwmw/its_time_to_rethink_everthing/

Appears he'll be using the 670 in another round of tests, as well as overclocking them all too.
http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-gaming-performance-with-today-cpus

Scott Wasson is king.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Interesting video this of the AMD FX 8350 vs Intel 3570K vs 3770K vs 3820 in gaming and streaming tests, quite surprising...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eu8Sekdb-IE

Worth a watch, be interested in your views guys. Test rigs and benchmarks through the link.

The guy who did the test is epicpants in this Reddit thread answering questions http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/16cwmw/its_time_to_rethink_everthing/

Appears he'll be using the 670 in another round of tests, as well as overclocking them all too.

Interesting, watching now. A minute in and let's see what comes from this.

His tested had a 7870 as a GPU. Not that I'm looking for reasons to discount him but I wonder what it would be with an nvidia GPU as well. Kudos as it seems the AMD CPU holds up well.

mkenyon's link has this graph

skyrim-fps.gif
 

kharma45

Member

Would latencies have improved much with Piledriver?

Interesting, watching now. A minute in and let's see what comes from this.

His tested had a 7870 as a GPU. Not that I'm looking for reasons to discount him but I wonder what it would be with an nvidia GPU as well. Kudos as it seems the AMD CPU holds up well.

mkenyon's link has this graph

skyrim-fps.gif

No Piledriver in those charts is the thing, and as for an Nvidia GPU that's coming in the next round of tests with the 670, as well as them being OC'd.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
One of the comments in the youtube video posted is interesting

These results are extremely suspect. Even between the intel chips they don't make sense. How does the 3770K lose to the 3570K in Black Mesa? How does the 3770K perform 50% faster than the 3820 in Trine2?
Why test CPU performance in GPU limited benches in the first place?
I usually like TS's vids but this seems shady at best.

How is this possible when we know for a fact how rock solid Intel CPU's are.
 

mkenyon

Banned
They have actually! They're now in line with Lynnfield processors. Below even i3s though.

here: http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed

skyrim-99th.gif

One of the comments in the youtube video posted is interesting

These results are extremely suspect. Even between the intel chips they don't make sense. How does the 3770K lose to the 3570K in Black Mesa? How does the 3770K perform 50% faster than the 3820 in Trine2?
Why test CPU performance in GPU limited benches in the first place?
I usually like TS's vids but this seems shady at best.

How is this possible when we know for a fact how rock solid Intel CPU's are.
So if you look back to the Firefall data I posted, I'm not kidding when I say I had to run that same benchmark (and it's a replay, I only hit play and then start the capture, auto shut off after 180 seconds) a total of 5 times (30 runs), and even then I'm getting wildly different stats that make zero sense. The stuff I posted I even had to omit the 4400 and 4600 runs because they were totally wonky compared to the rest. All I have to do is hit a '+' or '-' on my board twice to get ready for the next test. This is using a completely different system.

This guy probably just runs a test and calls it good. I wanted to do that too, but couldn't live with inaccurate data.
 

kharma45

Member
One of the comments in the youtube video posted is interesting

These results are extremely suspect. Even between the intel chips they don't make sense. How does the 3770K lose to the 3570K in Black Mesa? How does the 3770K perform 50% faster than the 3820 in Trine2?
Why test CPU performance in GPU limited benches in the first place?
I usually like TS's vids but this seems shady at best.

How is this possible when we know for a fact how rock solid Intel CPU's are.

Be interesting to see what happens in his follow up video.

They have actually! They're now in line with Lynnfield processors. Below even i3s though.

here: http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed

skyrim-99th.gif

Cheers. Good to know my i5 750 can still hold its own :p
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
He also omitted a piece (and I know it may seem unfair given the price) like the 3930k. 6 core/12 thread CPU is probably the king of the hill. I would like to have seen a better and more..........rational or varied test. Different test beds. Some of those results vary greatly and many graphs show performance favors mostly Intel CPU's.

They have actually! They're now in line with Lynnfield processors. Below even i3s though.

here: http://techreport.com/review/23750/amd-fx-8350-processor-reviewed

skyrim-99th.gif


So if you look back to the Firefall data I posted, I'm not kidding when I say I had to run that same benchmark (and it's a replay, I only hit play and then start the capture, auto shut off after 180 seconds) a total of 5 times (30 runs), and even then I'm getting wildly different stats that make zero sense. The stuff I posted I even had to omit the 4400 and 4600 runs because they were totally wonky compared to the rest. All I have to do is hit a '+' or '-' on my board twice to get ready for the next test. This is using a completely different system.

This guy probably just runs a test and calls it good. I wanted to do that too, but couldn't live with inaccurate data.

Could you post that again please?
 

mkenyon

Banned
Also, one thing I immediately noticed, glad others picked up on as well. From a reddit comment:

all of the games you showed are gpu intensive games. This proves absolutely nothing and in all of the games the GPU would be the bottle necking factor. I wish you would have used cpu intensive games like starcraft 2, Total war Shogun 2, WoW, Guild wars 2 any of those would be better than the games you bench marked.

He even uses multiple games that are running the same engine. Ridiculous.

That's because Min/Max/Average is a really bad way to measure performance. For example, here's 3 minutes of gameplay in Firefall. First chart is min/max/average, second chart is a plotline of the FPS.

F40WA.png


mfwJU.png


Minimum 83 FPS, pretty good right? Wrong. Here's a plotline of the exact same data that shows, in milliseconds, how long it took to render each frame.

9b0QD.png


There are a huge number of frames that are taking over 16.7ms (60fps) to render, with some reaching 70ms (14fps). These are the kind of stutters that one would encounter when running out of VRAM.

HU2As.png


A much more accurate measurement of 'average' experience is 99th Percentile Frame Latency, which shows us how long it took to render 99% of all frames.

BfSpK.png


In instances where there aren't major stutters, this should generally line up with average FPS. But that's the thing, average FPS completely misses situations where things are going wrong. It only polls data once a second, yet it could be averaging out 70ms frames with 8ms frames over a second to show you 80fps.

The more I'm researching this stuff, the more I can't believe that FPS has been a standard for so long. It's sooooooo bad.

I have med-small hands, and I definitely cannot claw grip my sensei. Spawn/Xornet is the way to go with claw, but as you are left handed, that's definitely not a good fit. I'll do some research for you and let you know if I find some good stuff.
 

kharma45

Member
This guy probably just runs a test and calls it good. I wanted to do that too, but couldn't live with inaccurate data.

In the video he does claim he ran them multiple times to be fair.

Also, one thing I immediately noticed, glad others picked up on as well. From a reddit comment:

He even uses multiple games that are running the same engine. Ridiculous.

I thought that too, makes it odd then for the wildly varying differences.
 

mkenyon

Banned
In the video he does claim he ran them multiple times to be fair.
My best guess is that he isn't controlling the benchmark variables well enough then. Most of the stuff I have done, I have stuck to replays as that limits input variables during the benchmark.

Far Cry 3 has been particularly difficult for me. Have done a total of 13 series so far, and this is the most accurate I've been able to get:

na0lR.png


1XXby.png


Notice that giant 4200mhz outlier :p
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
In the video he does claim he ran them multiple times to be fair.



I thought that too, makes it odd then for the wildly varying differences.

And some of the results still baffle me.

Interested data up there mkenyon. It seems weird for someone like who doesn't understand these things on as technical a level as you.

Watching that video to completion, it seems like he's out to market AMD with this video. And it seems shady. He claims that AMD provides more SATA ports but does what does it do for PCIe 3.0 lanes? I'm merely curious as it would be good to compare an SB-E CPU like the 3820 to this AMD part and see if it brings as many PCI lanes as Intel CPU's.

I'm sure there are some inhereted benefits to AMD in some applications but almost every piece of data from mainstream and hard core sites alongside consumer opinion from GAF and others points to Intel always winning handily even with lower gen CPU's.

Here is another video that does a similar thing with different apps.

8350 vs 370k vs 3770k
 

mkenyon

Banned
If I were rendering video in Sony Vegas 24/7, I'd be rocking a high end piledriver and a 7970.

Gaming though, it's all about that per-thread performance. Maybe next gen will see a change to that. Civ V, for example, is n-threaded:

uukgd.png
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Is it worth spending $60 extra for an i7 if I'm just going to be gaming?

If you go from the 3570 to the 3770, yes. It's worth the boost and longer term viability as a CPU with the improvements in the 3770k. Shame I only can find really good deals at Microcenter but there isn't one anywhere near me in FL :(
 

Sandfox

Member
I'd say no. Put it towards your video card instead.

Right now I'm gaming on a 6850 and while I want a new card I'm trying to hold out until next year's cards before I buy something awesome. This $60 wouldn't be cutting into the money being used for any other part.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Hyperthreading with 4c/8t is a plus in the big picture so with the 3770k, I would consider this a more than viable GPU for every day use for a LONG time and for gaming I would venture to say it will last you for next gen with how good the current batch of Intel CPU's are.

But maybe one of the other guys with a higher level of know how can correlate that. I've seen it in action and read plenty on it.
 

Sandfox

Member
Hyperthreading with 4c/8t is a plus in the big picture so with the 3770k, I would consider this a more than viable GPU for every day use for a LONG time and for gaming I would venture to say it will last you for next gen with how good the current batch of Intel CPU's are.

But maybe one of the other guys with a higher level of know how can correlate that. I've seen it in action and read plenty on it.

That's a pretty convincing argument lol
 
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