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"I need a New PC!" 2012 Thread. Ivy, SSDs, and reading the OP. [Part 2]

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Hejdlond

Member
I bought a Asus PB278 monitor today, 2560x1440 PLS (Samsungs equivalent to IPS), very satisfied with the picture quality. But I couldn't for the life of me play BF3 using it. After having played with my Asus VG278HE (120Hz) for the last month I can't go back. The tests of the PB278 I've seen claims that it only has one frame of input lag. But to me, it felt waaay more than that.
 

scogoth

Member
A friend of mine finished building his PC, and is now looking at monitors. He plays Starcraft II a lot, and League of Legends, and we're wondering if he would benefit from a 120hz monitor with those games? It's been suggested he go that route, and I thought to get some opinions from PC-GAF. Currently looking at these two options BenQ XL2420T and ASUS VG278HE.

Honestly for SC2 and LoL 120hz will do very little if thats ALL he plays. An IPS panel will look much better. 120Hz is really great for fast action games (FPS, sims, 3rd person action, etc)
 

Astra

Member
I bought a Asus PB278 monitor today, 2560x1440 PLS (Samsungs equivalent to IPS), very satisfied with the picture quality. But I couldn't for the life of me play BF3 using it. After having played with my Asus VG278HE (120Hz) for the last month I can't go back. The tests of the PB278 I've seen claims that it only has one frame of input lag. But to me, it felt waaay more than that.

Honestly for SC2 and LoL 120hz will do very little if thats ALL he plays. An IPS panel will look much better. 120Hz is really great for fast action games (FPS, sims, 3rd person action, etc)

Thanks for the input.
He'll definitely be playing fast paced TPS, as well. SCII will be the most played, likely.
It's a hard decision between high refresh rate, and high resolution. Hopefully someday soon we can have both (at a reasonable price).
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Anyone saying that onboard audio is good is a dirty liar. Xonar Essence STX + Distant Worlds = bliss. I forgot how good audio could be.
 

AndyD

aka andydumi
The Sapphire 7950 from Amazon came in. This thing is huge, you guys were not kidding.

Luckily it fits just snug against the drive cage in my Sonata, no need for a new case. The PCB has almost 3/4 inch clearance, its the stupid plastic hood on the fans that touches. I don't think I will grind it down, just let it be snug.

I think I'll start Borderlands 2 later tonight, see how it runs. The old crappy 6450 has served its interim purpose, as it was not fit to play anything.
 

mkenyon

Banned
Okay guys, I'm going to add a GTX 670 instead as recommended.

I'm thinking about changing up the motherboard from the Asus to this Gigabyte one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128558

GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UP4 TH LGA 1155 Intel Z77

Mainly because I kind of wanted to get a Thunderbolt Display (Hopefully they refresh them soon) for my Macbook Pro Retina and I want the ability to also use it with my PC.

I still need to decide on a sound card. I will mainly be using the Speakers I think and not the headphones.
You'll only be able to use it as a secondary display, as it will be your onboard videocard that will be driving that output. I like the TH boards just for the data transfer. I'm keen on the Gigabyte Z77 offerings too, they've done a really good job this round.

Are you speakers going to be powered or have their own DAC? If it's through a receiver or some such thing, I wouldn't worry about it. It's a luxury, and one that I haven't even splurged on (due to aesthetics and loving my onboard on the G1.Assassin 2), but if sound is super important to you then it makes sense to get one.
God damnit. having some sort of issue with my 128GB M4 SSD.

It randomly stopped being recognized (my BIOS says nothing is plugged into that SATA port). Then I switched SATA ports with my HDD, and they were both recognized. But at one point, the SSD stopped being recognized in the second SATA port too.

This has only been happening since I ran windows update and got (I think) W7SP1. Since then, my "primary disk speed" in the windows experience index has said 5.9, indicating that it's really reading my HDD and not my SSD...even though Windows is (only) installed on the SSD. Besides that, the SSD is working fine and my computer is snappy as ever. Until it stopped being recognized of course. I'm hoping maybe my SATA cable that I'm using for that one is just messed up somehow, because removing the SSD would be a huge pain in the ass -- it's mounted behind my motherboard and I'd have to take out the mobo to replace it.

Any ideas?

Also, I'm on the east coast and we've had a lot of storms, and a couple of times my PC shut itself off because it detected a power surge. Hope it's not related
Have you updated the firmware?
A friend of mine finished building his PC, and is now looking at monitors. He plays Starcraft II a lot, and League of Legends, and we're wondering if he would benefit from a 120hz monitor with those games? It's been suggested he go that route, and I thought to get some opinions from PC-GAF. Currently looking at these two options BenQ XL2420T and ASUS VG278HE.
Yes yes yes yes yes. Samsung S23A for colors, BenQ XL2420T for latency/response.
Any game playing experience could benefit from 120hz.

Personally, I'm waiting on the Monoprice Korean IPS panels. They should be very aggressively priced and may be 120hz.

http://120hz.net/showthread.php?979-MonoPrice-to-sell-27-quot-2560x1440-WQHD-IPS-LED-Monitors
The 120hz part was a rumor, nothing directly from monoprice. In either case, with all of those inputs, this thing is going to have some very very serious input lag. Definitely not a gaming monitor, but certainly good for photoshop. The Crossover 27Q is what I recommend for gaming because of the lack of inputs. Really helps with getting that latency down.
Anyone saying that onboard audio is good is a dirty liar. Xonar Essence STX + Distant Worlds = bliss. I forgot how good audio could be.
Agreed.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
I bought a Asus PB278 monitor today, 2560x1440 PLS (Samsungs equivalent to IPS), very satisfied with the picture quality. But I couldn't for the life of me play BF3 using it. After having played with my Asus VG278HE (120Hz) for the last month I can't go back. The tests of the PB278 I've seen claims that it only has one frame of input lag. But to me, it felt waaay more than that.
I can't go back after 120Hz. I just can't do it.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
I bought a Asus PB278 monitor today, 2560x1440 PLS (Samsungs equivalent to IPS), very satisfied with the picture quality. But I couldn't for the life of me play BF3 using it. After having played with my Asus VG278HE (120Hz) for the last month I can't go back. The tests of the PB278 I've seen claims that it only has one frame of input lag. But to me, it felt waaay more than that.
Vsyncing at 60Hz adds a ton of input lag. Vsyncing at 120Hz doesn't add as much. Less time to wait between frames, I guess.
 

Garou

Member
Yeah, it's running the latest firmware. Switched SATA cables and ports. After a few restarts it just starts working again, don't know why.

It's a bug in the latest firmware when used with UEFI-enabled mainboards. Roll back to the previous version (000f) and you will be alright.
 
Yes yes yes yes yes. Samsung S23A for colors, BenQ XL2420T for latency/response.

The 120hz part was a rumor, nothing directly from monoprice. In either case, with all of those inputs, this thing is going to have some very very serious input lag. Definitely not a gaming monitor, but certainly good for photoshop. The Crossover 27Q is what I recommend for gaming because of the lack of inputs. Really helps with getting that latency down.

In a pure performance point of view. the Samsung S23A700/750/950 are miles better than the Benq XL2420 when it comes to 2D 120hz gaming. The Samsung monitor has far, far better motion performance and its input lag @ 120hz is around 10ms. That's rather high for a pure gaming monitor but not dire.

I don't know why people even recommend the Benq XL2420 for 2D gaming. Out of all the big players in the 120hz game, it has the worst 120hz and, by far, the worst 60hz motion performance. Not only that, it has utterly pathetic factory calibration that is extremely difficult to fix because the problem includes gamma.

Honestly speaking, unless you are specifically after a matte display the real competition is between the Asus VG236H and Samsung S23A700/750/950. The Samsungs will much more punch to their colour, because the Asus' gamma is too low, but the Asus has better hardware design and input options.

Also if those Monoprice monitors have multiple inputs, they're probably going to have dire contrast the minute you adjust the brightness. Monoprice better be supplying the single input version, which doesn't have the problem of 400:1 static contrast ratios at sane brightness levels.
 
Does anyone have much familiarity with Nvidia Inspector's Multi Display Power Saver? I've been using it for a while to keep my card properly underclocked when I'm not playing games. Lately though I've been having problems with it's reliability. Sometimes after exiting something that uses a P8 or P0 state (video or a game) the state sets back to P12 (because nothing is open) and it will get stuck in that state. So the next time I open a game it'll run at 5fps because the low power state won't let the card go buck wild.

The only way I've found to fix this is to reboot the computer each time it happens. Anyone else run into anything similar?
 

Leonsito

Member
Hi guys, I have a problem with my new HDD, it's a WD20EARX, a 2TB Caviar Green.

Quick recap: I bought a 128GB M4 and the 2TB WD, I have an old ASUS P5B Deluxe mobo, I plugged the M4 and the WD, my idea is to use the M4 for Win7 and software, and the 2TB for data, splitted in two equal partitions.

I install Win7, everything goes fine, when I'm on Windows i go to the disk administrator and create the partitions, and here is where the problems start; the new partitions appear in the computer, but there isn't report of the space, just the drive letter, I click in one of them, Win7 says that it has to format it, I agree, it starts to give format and suddenly a drive access error and both partitions dissapear, I reboot and I can see that the bios sees the HDD (drives are in AHCI mode, I tried in IDE and they appear too) but in Windows I don't see any partitions, and when I go to the disk administrator I can't see my drives, it locks up, if I unplug the 2TB I can see the other M4 and optical drives well, I don't know if the HDD is faulty, it's the second one I try and the same happened with the first, except that the first didn't even appear in the BIOS.

Any idea? Is my mobo at fault for being a bit older? I know it's SATA300, and I'm not going to get the full benefit from the SSD, but the M4 works great, it's the other one that doesn't work :(
 

TGMIII

Member
I don't know why people even recommend the Benq XL2420 for 2D gaming. Out of all the big players in the 120hz game, it has the worst 120hz and, by far, the worst 60hz motion performance. Not only that, it has utterly pathetic factory calibration that is extremely difficult to fix because the problem includes gamma.

Care to explain that more? I've got a XL2420 and my friend has a samsung 120hz, can't remember the model, and when we had them in the same room neither of us noticed any huge differences in multiple games. The colour calibration it comes with is horrible though, it's mainly to do with the "CS mode" it's in where it tries to brighten every black which results in you getting blinded the first time you turn it on. Took me forever to get it to where I wanted to be and even then I'm sure other monitors out there do a much better job with the colours.
 
Care to explain that more? I've got a XL2420 and my friend has a samsung 120hz, can't remember the model, and when we had them in the same room neither of us noticed any huge differences in multiple games. The colour calibration it comes with is horrible though, it's mainly to do with the "CS mode" it's in where it tries to brighten every black which results in you getting blinded the first time you turn it on. Took me forever to get it to where I wanted to be and even then I'm sure other monitors out there do a much better job with the colours.

When you look at display performance, 2ms, 5ms, 14ms doesn't mean anything. What method is the manufacturer taking to measure that panel response? What does the value even mean? Where do you start and stop the measurement?

For manufacturer to achieve "2ms", they have to use some form of response time compensation (aka trace-free/AMA/response boost/RTC/overdrive). Specsheets don't tell you how well the RTC has been applied so the only way you can determine this is by having someone do a controlled motion performance test like TFT Central has done. Notice the dark shadow behind the car? That's reverse ghosting. For comparison sake, this is the Asus PB278Q, a 27" IPS monitor. The Benq XL2420 will feel smoother than the Asus PB278Q (120hz vs. 60hz duh) but you get the point.

For hardware that only run at 60hz like your Xbox 360 or PS3, the Benq XL2420 is worse than just about all decent 60hz monitors because of its reverse ghosting. For 120hz monitors, its worse than the Samsung monitors, which have perfect motion performance, and the Asus 120hz monitors, which have adjustable RTC options ("trace-free" in Asus-land), simply due to the fact that it has reverse ghosting and others don't. Combine this with the quite bad default calibration and you've got a monitor that is fine for 120hz gaming but still objectively worse than every major 120hz monitor on the market.
 

Bacchus

Banned
Thanks for the input.
He'll definitely be playing fast paced TPS, as well. SCII will be the most played, likely.
It's a hard decision between high refresh rate, and high resolution. Hopefully someday soon we can have both (at a reasonable price).

I myself am an avid Dota 2 player and have preordered an Overlord OC edition, which is 1440p and 120hz. www.overlordcomputer.com

I expect to see some vast improvement over my 1080p 23".

They are currently sold out, and now with companies scrambling to get 1440p A panels like mad crazy, prices are gonna rise.
 

scogoth

Member
I myself am an avid Dota 2 player and have preordered an Overlord OC edition, which is 1440p and 120hz. www.overlordcomputer.com

I expect to see some vast improvement over my 1080p 23".

They are currently sold out, and now with companies scrambling to get 1440p A panels like mad crazy, prices are gonna rise.

Where does it say 120Hz? Im dubious because its not technically possible to have 2560x1440 at 120Hz over a single dual-link DVI cable, there isnt enough bandwidth.
 

Spazo

Member
Where does it say 120Hz? Im dubious because its not technically possible to have 2560x1440 at 120Hz over a single dual-link DVI cable, there isnt enough bandwidth.

27-inch LED PANEL: S-IPS "A" Grade LG
Refresh rate: 60hz, up to 120HZ capable (please read "The OC Overview")
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Resolution: 2560-by-1440
 
Both of my Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB HDD's are going bad, fuck! Dat clicking sound and high unnecessary spinning. Thankfully, Black Friday deals are right around the corner.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
While I absolutely adore my Samsung 120Hz for just about everything (Including the colors), it does seem to have a decently widespread issue of dropping signal on video change.

Mine suffers from it and it is annoying, and has occasionally happened in some games, possibly relating to overheating?

I'm not sure.
 

Shambles

Member
I wasn't aware that latency increased with an increase in inputs on a monitor. Why wouldn't a monitor with 5 inputs behave the same as a monitor with 1 once it has locked on to an active input?
 

gokieks

Member
I wasn't aware that latency increased with an increase in inputs on a monitor. Why wouldn't a monitor with 5 inputs behave the same as a monitor with 1 once it has locked on to an active input?

Because you need to have additional circuitry/signal processors to be able to route (and in many cases, scale) signals from multiple inputs.
 

ATF487

Member
Just wanted to say thanks for the detailed OP, it's going to be really helpful when I build my computer in a month or two. Work shuts down for nearly two weeks around Christmas and I think I want to spend that time playing all the games I've bought on steam but have been unable to run properly
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Question: there's a decent sale on an OCZ power supply on NewEgg that almost matches the one in the front page spec sheet. My question is what's the difference between the CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX750 V2 750W ATX12V

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139021&Tpk=corsair 750 v2

and the (now) cheaper CORSAIR TX Series CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...110912-Index-_-PowerSupplies-_-17139006-L010A

?
The V2 is built by Seasonic (better) instead of CWT and is more efficient.
Just wanted to say thanks for the detailed OP, it's going to be really helpful when I build my computer in a month or two. Work shuts down for nearly two weeks around Christmas and I think I want to spend that time playing all the games I've bought on steam but have been unable to run properly
Just post back up when you are ready to buy. Keep an eye out on BF too
 

jsrv

Member
Anyone recommend any straight SATA III 6gb cables that work with Asus Z77 boards? Got to replace the right angle ones that came with the mobo. I read the monoprice cables unlock/unclick themselves when plugged next to each other on Asus P8-Z77-V boards due to how close the connectors are on the mobo so I can't really use them

These are the only ones I found
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123163

Anyone know if they work right next to each other without unclicking themselves?
 

Leonsito

Member
Anyone recommend any straight SATA III 6gb cables that work with Asus Z77 boards? Got to replace the right angle ones that came with the mobo. I read the monoprice cables unlock/unclick themselves when plugged next to each other on Asus P8-Z77-V boards due to how close the connectors are on the mobo so I can't really use them

These are the only ones I found
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812123163

Anyone know if they work right next to each other without unclicking themselves?

SATA cables are all the same, there is no difference to SATA or SATA II cables.
 

jsrv

Member
SATA cables are all the same, there is no difference to SATA or SATA II cables.

Well damn, I didn't know that, thought you needed SATAIII cables for SATAIII SSD/HDDs. Guess I'll look around the house for some decade old SATA cables first
 

Sullichin

Member
It's a bug in the latest firmware when used with UEFI-enabled mainboards. Roll back to the previous version (000f) and you will be alright.

Thank you! I looked into this and it seems to fit the problem I was having exactly. I reverted the firmware and so far it's been fine. I'm glad it's not a sign there was something wrong with my SSD because it would be such a pain to remove. I did break a little piece of plastic on one of my SATA ports after switching out the cables so many times though.
 
I wasn't aware that latency increased with an increase in inputs on a monitor. Why wouldn't a monitor with 5 inputs behave the same as a monitor with 1 once it has locked on to an active input?

Because you need to have additional circuitry/signal processors to be able to route (and in many cases, scale) signals from multiple inputs.

That's not remotely true. There is no correlation between high input lag and number of inputs. A lot of monitors are festooned with inputs and have very low input lag. Some might have very few inputs and have quite a significant amount of input lag.

Very complete video scalers (not inputs) typically increase input lag but even then its a case by case basis. Some monitors, such as the Eizo SX2762 and Dell U2410, have very low input lag despite the amount of features they have because they have working bypass circuits.
 

DarthWoo

I'm glad Grandpa porked a Chinese Muslim
I'm buying a used E8400 from someone here so I just had a quick question. I have an old tube of thermal paste from when I first put my current rig together, but I'm guessing that even though I still had over half of the stuff leftover, I should probably get a new tube anyway. Is there any sort of preferred brand/type of paste? Do some work better with different CPU types than others? I've always been under the impression that most people prefer Arctic Silver.
 

DTKT

Member
I'm buying a used E8400 from someone here so I just had a quick question. I have an old tube of thermal paste from when I first put my current rig together, but I'm guessing that even though I still had over half of the stuff leftover, I should probably get a new tube anyway. Is there any sort of preferred brand/type of paste? Do some work better with different CPU types than others? I've always been under the impression that most people prefer Arctic Silver.

From what I've seen, there is barely any difference between most types of good quality thermal paste. I picked up some Artic 5 Silver and the cleaning kit and it's fantastic so far.
 

longdi

Banned
arctic silver is old and it can cause electric shorts. just get the newer non conductive thermal paste like arctic mx2/4 or tunix tq1 which ever you find affordable. there are minimal difference but i will stay away from coolermaster stuffs.
 

Prozel

Member
So the Gigabyte ITX is voltage locked from what I can read. Do you guys have any idea how much I can squeeze my 3570k if I get better cooling?
 

Tattooth

Member
This might not be the best place to ask but this thread is the most active PC tech thread. I have a 1tb NAS which I have filled up, I got a new 2tb drive for it, but I am not about the best way to get all the data from the old one to the new one.

At the moment I am copying the data from the NAS to my PC, and when that is done I will format the new HDD for the NAS and copy it all back. While this method works, it seems like it will take almost a whole day to just copy it to the PC. So, are there any other, faster ways to fo this?
 

IISANDERII

Member
Am I in the right place? I need a new PC, I don't know anything and don't really want to learn. I thought I would just go to a local computer shop but I was insisted to come here.
I guess I want a middle of the road PC that can do some gaming and any moderate graphical upgrades from PS360 will be adequate.

Your Current Specs: Don't know but I recently put in extra rams so now I have 2.5 gigs.
Budget: $800, Canada
Main Use: Light Gaming?
General Usage: Web, word processing, skype, streaming to PS3 and I would like to be able to play video at 1080p. I also have a 5.1 sound system that I would like to keep using. Would also like to be able to burn CDs.
Monitor Resolution: I don't know. I currently have an HP 2159m and it seems ok.
List SPECIFIC games that you MUST be able to play: I'm so far removed from PC gaming that I don't even know. In general, I'd like to play at 60fps and medium settings I guess.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Mouse, monitor, router, printer, speaker system, external hard drives and that extra RAM I put in.
When will you build?: I can wait a month or two.
Will you be overclocking?: I prefer the 24hr display.
 

Darte

Member
Question: I've heard the GTX 600 series cards have had a lot of issues in the past. Is it still the case even now?

I originally was going to put a GTX580 on a new rig i'm putting up, but the asus branded ones are getting rarer (and more expensive as a result). I plan on buying one card at first but eventually upgrade to dual SLI config, so I don't want to buy the gtx580 if down the lane I can't find another asus gtx 580 (from what I've seen, these have a decent cooling system built into the card, which is my primary reason for wanting this particular brand).

One other thing, I'm not looking into ATI cards at all, not interested in ATI cards anymore.
 

Ultrabum

Member
Question: I've heard the GTX 600 series cards have had a lot of issues in the past. Is it still the case even now?

I originally was going to put a GTX580 on a new rig i'm putting up, but the asus branded ones are getting rarer (and more expensive as a result). I plan on buying one card at first but eventually upgrade to dual SLI config, so I don't want to buy the gtx580 if down the lane I can't find another asus gtx 580 (from what I've seen, these have a decent cooling system built into the card, which is my primary reason for wanting this particular brand).

One other thing, I'm not looking into ATI cards at all, not interested in ATI cards anymore.

I have a GTX680, its great. No problems here. In my opinion, SLI is often the most problem prone, as compared to any model or brand.
 

kharma45

Member
Question: I've heard the GTX 600 series cards have had a lot of issues in the past. Is it still the case even now?

I originally was going to put a GTX580 on a new rig i'm putting up, but the asus branded ones are getting rarer (and more expensive as a result). I plan on buying one card at first but eventually upgrade to dual SLI config, so I don't want to buy the gtx580 if down the lane I can't find another asus gtx 580 (from what I've seen, these have a decent cooling system built into the card, which is my primary reason for wanting this particular brand).

One other thing, I'm not looking into ATI cards at all, not interested in ATI cards anymore.

I wouldn't get a 580 now unless you got some sort of almighty bargain. If you insist on going Nvidia over AMD get a 670, should be in your budget if you're looking at 580's.
 

derder

Member
This might not be the best place to ask but this thread is the most active PC tech thread. I have a 1tb NAS which I have filled up, I got a new 2tb drive for it, but I am not about the best way to get all the data from the old one to the new one.

At the moment I am copying the data from the NAS to my PC, and when that is done I will format the new HDD for the NAS and copy it all back. While this method works, it seems like it will take almost a whole day to just copy it to the PC. So, are there any other, faster ways to fo this?

No, but if you're like me, you'll continue to increase that NAS at a pretty steady rate. Take the time to read up on ZFS and use this opportunity to switch before it gets too big.
 

Ledsen

Member
Am I in the right place? I need a new PC, I don't know anything and don't really want to learn. I thought I would just go to a local computer shop but I was insisted to come here.
I guess I want a middle of the road PC that can do some gaming and any moderate graphical upgrades from PS360 will be adequate.

Your Current Specs: Don't know but I recently put in extra rams so now I have 2.5 gigs.
Budget: $800, Canada
Main Use: Light Gaming?
General Usage: Web, word processing, skype, streaming to PS3 and I would like to be able to play video at 1080p. I also have a 5.1 sound system that I would like to keep using. Would also like to be able to burn CDs.
Monitor Resolution: I don't know. I currently have an HP 2159m and it seems ok.
List SPECIFIC games that you MUST be able to play: I'm so far removed from PC gaming that I don't even know. In general, I'd like to play at 60fps and medium settings I guess.
Looking to reuse any parts?: Mouse, monitor, router, printer, speaker system, external hard drives and that extra RAM I put in.
When will you build?: I can wait a month or two.
Will you be overclocking?: I prefer the 24hr display.

You'll be able to use all those things except the RAM, but RAM is super cheap. Check the OP and pick a build that suits your budget, someone else could probably help you decide if you should change anythig specific from the OP builds.
 
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